[yedukrishnan199]

Hello, BHPians!
My friend who lives in Thrissur, Kerala is currently in a dilemma whether or not to buy an electric scooter. Because the FAME-II subsidies are concluding in March 2024, he is confused about whether to go for an electric scooter now or wait for new launches and better offers or options.

He has an ICE scooter at home for his usual errands but will need a scooter at least by next year. With the elections coming up and this year's budget being a vote on account (Interim), there is a fear that the subsidies may be dropped till the time the full budget is announced in July. However, there may also be a chance that subsidies are retained till the full budget too. However, even in the full budget, the chances are high for subsidies to be reduced and FAME-III (If introduced) may not be as supportive as FAME-II.

So with OLA, Ather, Hero Vida, TVS IQube, and Bajaj Chetak all having discounts during this month, ranging from 12.5k to over 30k, he is wondering whether he should take the plunge and get an electric scooter now. He is also interested in a few other scooters like the River Indie where he loved the practicality.

Moreover with new models and new technology (Lithium iron phosphate battery, better range, features) coming to scooters entering the market in 2024, he is worried whether purchasing one now, whereby it would surely remain idle till June 2024, is a wise decision.

Hero, Ather, and Honda all set to launch new scooters in 2024-25 and with more and more companies entering this space and with competition getting tougher, he is in a dilemma whether to go for one now or wait till the time he needs one.

When the need does arise it will be for around 30 to 40 km a day, and he doesn't have any issues with power as he has solar in his home, so it is free charging, this is the main reason he is considering one and with electric scooters being just a few thousand more expensive or sometimes at par on cost with ICE scooters (for example OLA S1X+), he prefers an electric scooter when the need arises, but if the subsidies are removed and the scooters get costlier, it wouldn't be as profitable as it is now. So should he go for one with almost every manufacturer providing one or the other offer or should he wait until he "really" needs one?

I am on the fence on this one and thought the best place to ask would be here, to the BHPians!, so feel free to reply and all suggestions are truly welcome! If you have any personal/specific suggestions feel free to DM me too!

[silverado]

Originally Posted by yedukrishnan199

When the need does arise it will be for around 30 to 40 km a day, and he doesn't have any issues with power as he has solar in his home, so it is free charging,

If he has solar, he should buy an electric scooter rightaway, and not wait for an ideal time. Policies discounts etc will keep changing, but if his ICE scooter is due for replacement he can buy an electric today.

[shancz]

What I would suggest is to use this time to take a lot of test rides of all EVs he likes and some more and get a feel of things. Since he's not in a hurry he can visit the ownership reports and then take an informed decision.

I am not competent on the battery technology but common sense dictates that the scooters on Li-Ion batteries have been doing ok and any technology will take some time to be tested out in our conditions to be determined stable enough.

Also new manufacturers like River will need some time to set-up their service network around you and also sort out the issues/niggles as they come in real world. Hence the suggestion of waiting out the first iteration/6-8 months of a new vehicle to let the manufacturer sort out the issues.

In case post his test rides he likes something a lot, and if feasible otherwise, get that and have fun

[bijims]

I am in a similar boat having sold my old ICE scooter but still having another for my needs, I have test-ridden almost all the major players' scooters including the Ola S1 Pro Gen2, Ola S1X+, Ather 450X, TVS iQube, and iQube S, Bajaj Chetak Urbane (Premium wasn't available for a test ride) and Hero Vida. From my experience, what I can tell you is these major players have a significant presence in major cities and towns as compared to others.

The other major players in this segment (in terms of sales) are Greaves Electric (Ampere), Okinawa Autotech, Hero Electric, Okaya EV, BGauss Auto, BattRe Electric, Kinetic Green, Revolt (electric bikes), and Joy E-bikes but none of their offerings can compete in terms of sales, features, price or presence over the likes of the top 4 (Ola, TVS iQube, Bajaj Chetak and Ather). They have vastly superior products with good range, battery capacity, quality, and even network. So getting one from amongst them would be the better decision in most towns and villages.

Of the up-and-coming 2W EV startups, I find River to be quite good, they have nailed the basics and have a competent product.

Now coming to the fact of new launches in this segment, Hero Vida is planning a couple of launches in the FY 2024-25, Ather has already announced its family scooter coming in 6 months and they do have another launch as well. TVS will finally launch the iQube ST this year and there is a high probability that Honda will also mark its foray into the segment this year as well. So,well there are a lot of products to watch out for.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by yedukrishnan199

.
He has an ICE scooter at home for his usual errands but will need a scooter at least by next year.
!

In my view, this is the key point. If the need for the scooter is only by next year, I don't see a point buying now. Understand the point about subsidies and pricing etc, but that should not be a decision factor to buy something that you won't use for 6 months atleast. That amount can be invested for a year to take care partly for the increased amounts. On the plus side you will get more options and newer iterations of current models.

[yedukrishnan199]

Originally Posted by silverado

If he has solar, he should buy an electric scooter rightaway, and not wait for an ideal time. Policies discounts etc will keep changing, but if his ICE scooter is due for replacement he can buy an electric today.

Yes, this is one factor that he had considered but his usage with the new electric scooter will be quite less up until at least June after which it will be used regularly. Even if he doesn't have a scooter by then he can still use his trustworthy ICE scooter till then (it is 10 years old) but in great condition.

Originally Posted by shancz

What I would suggest is to use this time to take a lot of test rides of all EVs he likes and some more and get a feel of things. Since he's not in a hurry he can visit the ownership reports and then take an informed decision.

I am not competent on the battery technology but common sense dictates that the scooters on Li-Ion batteries have been doing ok and any technology will take some time to be tested out in our conditions to be determined stable enough.

Also new manufacturers like River will need some time to set-up their service network around you and also sort out the issues/niggles as they come in real world. Hence the suggestion of waiting out the first iteration/6-8 months of a new vehicle to let the manufacturer sort out the issues.

In case post his test rides he likes something a lot, and if feasible otherwise, get that and have fun

Yes, he has started to take test rides of e-scooters from the established brands that are available nearby like TVS, Hero Vida, OLA, Ather, Bajaj, etc. He is trying to get as much information as possible on these from user experiences.

Although there have been a couple of scooters with lithium phosphate batteries launched in the market, none of them have great features or lack in other departments like fit and finish, quality, etc. Yes, the fact that going for new manufacturers who are only beginning to set up shop is also quite a risk, as it will take time for them to sort out issues in their products.

Originally Posted by bijims

I am in a similar boat having sold my old ICE scooter but still having another for my needs, I have test-ridden almost all the major players' scooters including the Ola S1 Pro Gen2, Ola S1X+, Ather 450X, TVS iQube, and iQube S, Bajaj Chetak Urbane (Premium wasn't available for a test ride) and Hero Vida. From my experience, what I can tell you is these major players have a significant presence in major cities and towns as compared to others.

The other major players in this segment (in terms of sales) are Greaves Electric (Ampere), Okinawa Autotech, Hero Electric, Okaya EV, BGauss Auto, BattRe Electric, Kinetic Green, Revolt (electric bikes), and Joy E-bikes but none of their offerings can compete in terms of sales, features, price or presence over the likes of the top 4 (Ola, TVS iQube, Bajaj Chetak and Ather). They have vastly superior products with good range, battery capacity, quality, and even network. So getting one from amongst them would be the better decision in most towns and villages.

Of the up-and-coming 2W EV startups, I find River to be quite good, they have nailed the basics and have a competent product.

Now coming to the fact of new launches in this segment, Hero Vida is planning a couple of launches in the FY 2024-25, Ather has already announced its family scooter coming in 6 months and they do have another launch as well. TVS will finally launch the iQube ST this year and there is a high probability that Honda will also mark its foray into the segment this year as well. So, well there are a lot of products to watch out for.

Yes, the major players indeed have a significant presence (Hero, TVS, Bajaj, OLA, and Ather) and have showrooms in every major city selling e-scooters, and with TVS, Hero, and Bajaj having significant presence even in remote local areas and their e-scooter lineup now being offered in much more showrooms, it becomes quite accessible as well, whether it is sales, spare parts or service.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

In my view, this is the key point. If the need for the scooter is only by next year, I don't see a point buying now. Understand the point about subsidies and pricing etc, but that should not be a decision factor to buy something that you won't use for 6 months atleast. That amount can be invested for a year to take care partly for the increased amounts. On the plus side you will get more options and newer iterations of current models.

Yes, the fact that the electric vehicle space is rapidly evolving makes products a year old feel obsolete, so getting the latest and greatest does make sense. Moreover investing money around 1.5 to 2 lakhs, which he intends on spending for a new scooter can help him offset quite a bit of the price increases when they arise as well. Yes, more options and competition also lead to better products and hence waiting for the same seems to be a logical choice.

[aargee]

The right time to buy an electric vehicle {or any vehicle for that matter} is when there's a need.

If the heart {Limbic} says to go for it, then there's no stopping on any account, be it the cost of vehicle or ownership cost, just buy it!!

If the brain {PFC}, typically as it would, conflicts with the heart, then working out the cost based on the usage will typically help.

In a nutshell, if there's an usage for about 6500 Km or more a year, it makes sense to buy a EV scooter when compared to the most fuel efficient Petrol scooter where a decent entry level EV scooter like Ather 450S becomes profitable to own by end of 2 years.

However, if the usage pattern is bound to change in say {typically less over the years}, 2-3 years, then a careful consideration is required to evaluate the cost of ownership.

[DAYDREAMER]

I think he should go for new 2W right away and start using it right away qnd park his old ICE scooter till the need arises for it

[B5glider]

Originally Posted by yedukrishnan199

Yes, the fact that the electric vehicle space is rapidly evolving makes products a year old feel obsolete, so getting the latest and greatest does make sense. Moreover investing money around 1.5 to 2 lakhs, which he intends on spending for a new scooter can help him offset quite a bit of the price increases when they arise as well. Yes, more options and competition also lead to better products and hence waiting for the same seems to be a logical choice.

3 important points when you buy an EV which I would suggest when you buy a EV 2W.

1) Do not expect that prices will increase. They will decrease considering sales going up and volume benefits accruing. Evidence of discounts even on a new Ather 450s is evidence to this.

2) I struck off Ola just because in my view they don’t understand the 2W market as yet. They are selling in huge numbers due to advertising and discounts. I would suggest to stick on to a big brand. Remember Ather has 40% now from Hero. And I am expecting Hero to barge in with another 9 anytime if Ather promoters lift off the 40% cap.

3) Do a clear balance out on what exactly you want. For eg. Ola’s music function is not something I like. Weigh out to buy an advanced tech motor instead of the basic hub motor. iQube is hub motor and hence was out of my list. All latest 3kw Olas are hub motors and hence did not care to look at them. Try scoots with PMSM tech.

I picked up a Vida though it sells less looking at Hero's brand behind. They know what and how to sell. They are just testing waters now like how Chetak did before a year and now Chetak is with all bells and whistles.

In my view the best built is Chetak. I liked the build but did not like their motor tech. Ather was 2nd in my list due to their pricing which they corrected now. I still have concerns on their belt which had seen issues. Had the Ather 450s being introduced with the 20k less discount that they are giving now, eyes closed i would have bought it!

Last to say, discounts are raining now. The best scoots are available from 120k approx including battery extended warranty. Grab them. All the very best.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by yedukrishnan199

So should he go for one with almost every manufacturer providing one or the other offer or should he wait until he "really" needs one?

I happened to notice today the price of Ather S which is at rock bottom ever!! It's a very good price as it was retailing at 129,999 until a few weeks ago. And this price is ~15K {earlier 35K} more than best FE Petrol scooter {Access/Jupiter etc}. And the ownership cost of this EV will equalize a Petrol scooter around second year onwards.



PS - I'm personally drooling over the price trying to convince my entire family who're against me adding Ather to the garage

[bijims]

Originally Posted by aargee

I happened to notice today the price of Ather S which is at rock bottom ever!! It's a very good price as it was retailing at 129,999 until a few weeks ago. And this price is ~15K {earlier 35K} more than best FE Petrol scooter {Access/Jupiter etc}. And the ownership cost of this EV will equalize a Petrol scooter around second year onwards.

Attachment 2565444

PS - I'm personally drooling over the price trying to convince my entire family who're against me adding Ather to the garage

The offers are quite tempting, Ather 450S at 109,999. Ola S1X+ at 89,999. Hero Vida V1 Pro with Rs 34,000 benefits, TVS iQube with a 7500 discount, extended warranty at just 1000 (5000 discount) and upto 6 months no cost EMI, Bajaj Chetak with discounts from 12k to 15k (Premium and Urbane respectively). All these really entice you into putting your money into one.

[yedukrishnan199]

Originally Posted by aargee

The right time to buy an electric vehicle {or any vehicle for that matter} is when there's a need.

If the heart {Limbic} says to go for it, then there's no stopping on any account, be it the cost of vehicle or ownership cost, just buy it!!

If the brain {PFC}, typically as it would, conflicts with the heart, then working out the cost based on the usage will typically help.

In a nutshell, if there's an usage for about 6500 Km or more a year, it makes sense to buy a EV scooter when compared to the most fuel efficient Petrol scooter where a decent entry level EV scooter like Ather 450S becomes profitable to own by end of 2 years.

However, if the usage pattern is bound to change in say {typically less over the years}, 2-3 years, then a careful consideration is required to evaluate the cost of ownership.

Sorry, I couldn't reply for such a long time! I got caught up with work and couldn't open the forum. You are right, the fact of the matter is there is a need that will surely arise by June, but that is still 4 months away. Now coming to the usage scenario, usage will be for travel to and from the workplace which is 18 km away from home and therefore there is sure to be around 9,000 to 10,000 km per year usage.

Originally Posted by DAYDREAMER

I think he should go for new 2W right away and start using it right away qnd park his old ICE scooter till the need arises for it

The reason why we were contemplating one right away was due to two factors, the offers available and two, the FAME subsidy expiry, but with the budget out, it seems it will continue but with a substantial cu, but the government has increased allocation for the PLI scheme, so that should keep costs in check as well.

Originally Posted by B5glider

3 important points when you buy an EV which I would suggest when you buy a EV 2W.

1) Do not expect that prices will increase. They will decrease considering sales going up and volume benefits accruing. Evidence of discounts even on a new Ather 450s is evidence to this.

2) I struck off Ola just because in my view they don’t understand the 2W market as yet. They are selling in huge numbers due to advertising and discounts. I would suggest to stick on to a big brand. Remember Ather has 40% now from Hero. And I am expecting Hero to barge in with another 9 anytime if Ather promoters lift off the 40% cap.

3) Do a clear balance out on what exactly you want. For eg. Ola’s music function is not something I like. Weigh out to buy an advanced tech motor instead of the basic hub motor. iQube is hub motor and hence was out of my list. All latest 3kw Olas are hub motors and hence did not care to look at them. Try scoots with PMSM tech.

I picked up a Vida though it sells less looking at Hero's brand behind. They know what and how to sell. They are just testing waters now like how Chetak did before a year and now Chetak is with all bells and whistles.

In my view the best built is Chetak. I liked the build but did not like their motor tech. Ather was 2nd in my list due to their pricing which they corrected now. I still have concerns on their belt which had seen issues. Had the Ather 450s being introduced with the 20k less discount that they are giving now, eyes closed i would have bought it!

Last to say, discounts are raining now. The best scoots are available from 120k approx including battery extended warranty. Grab them. All the very best.

Yes, I am quite interested in the Ather 450S as well as the Vida V1 Pro, both getting good discounts and benefits (25k and 34k respectively). I am also quite intrigued by the new OLA S1X 4kWh, it looks like a no-nonsense scooter with a key and without any fancy features. I guess it should be reliable as compared to those with fancy touchscreen and speakers. Moreover, Ola is offering an 8-year battery warranty free of cost, and in the case of this scooter, the battery itself costs Rs.87298, which makes up about 79% of the total ex-showroom price of Rs.1,09,999. I am also interested to see how the Ather RIZTA will be considering it is a family scooter, but its launch is stated for Ather Community Day, the date of which isn't confirmed yet.

Originally Posted by aargee

I happened to notice today the price of Ather S which is at rock bottom ever!! It's a very good price as it was retailing at 129,999 until a few weeks ago. And this price is ~15K {earlier 35K} more than best FE Petrol scooter {Access/Jupiter etc}. And the ownership cost of this EV will equalize a Petrol scooter around second year onwards.

Attachment 2565444

PS - I'm personally drooling over the price trying to convince my entire family who're against me adding Ather to the garage

Me too, It goes to show the effect that the competition can have on a brand, and with Ola's aggressive marketing, the competition were bound to provide offers to catch up.

Originally Posted by bijims

The offers are quite tempting, Ather 450S at 109,999. Ola S1X+ at 89,999. Hero Vida V1 Pro with Rs 34,000 benefits, TVS iQube with a 7500 discount, extended warranty at just 1000 (5000 discount) and upto 6 months no cost EMI, Bajaj Chetak with discounts from 12k to 15k (Premium and Urbane respectively). All these really entice you into putting your money into one.

It is a great time to consider a scooter and with even more launches coming soon, it only gets better. Anyway, I have decided to wait till the end of next month to finalize a scooter, so I can keep track of new launches and price revisions taking place.

Thank you all for your useful insights, I will be watching out for all your replies on whether now is the time to take the plunge and which scooter to go for.

[bijims]

The best proposition for your friend in the current situation would be to book the Ola S1X 4kWh model before March end, in such a scenario with its waiting period being 2 months, he would get his scooter by May end, just in time for June, whereby it wouldn't remain idle. Moreover, with the 4kWh battery, no fancy tech whatsoever, key start, and conventional mechanisms, the Ola S1X 4kWh will be perhaps the most niggle-free of the lot, from the user experiences over the last couple of months on the Ola S1X+ (albeit it still has Bluetooth connectivity, app-integration and turn-by-turn navigation) but it still without the touchscreen and fancy features and the reliability quotient is much higher than the other models, now with 8-year/80,000 km warranty extendable upto 125,000 km (within a year of purchase), Ola has provided customers with something no other manufacturer can. So, considering your usage scenario and electricity being from solar, this model makes the most sense, moreover with the 4kwh, you get around 140 to 150 km real range (at least 130) which means you could charge it once in 3 days, instead whereas in the 3kwh variants you would have to charge it once in 2 days. This reduces the number of cycles by a third, which helps in improving battery life and maintaining maximum range for much longer.

The only other options I would recommend right now are
1. Hero Vida V1 Pro (but its range is similar to a 3kwh Ola), however it comes with a removable battery pack, better build, a touchscreen with turn by turn navigation, bluetooth connectivity etc, and now ith offers around 30k, the OTR price comes to just 1.38 lakhs in Kerala, so its a good deal for the price, although during Diwali the price was close to 1.26 lakhs OTR Kerala

2. Ola S1 Pro Gen 2 If you need the complete Ola experience, then the S1 Pro is the one to go for, it is undoubtedly the most feature packed, most powerful scooter under 2 lakhs with every feature you could ask for, along with the unmatched 8-year warranty, and if Ola delivers on its promises of 600 service stations, 10,000 fast chargers by next quarter, along with improvement in service, then there is nothing stopping Ola from being the go to product in the market. Even with its faults, Ola still commands a 40% market share and it is truly a testament to its product portfolio, aggressive marketing and reach.

[Sebring]

My friend just booked River Indie. Showroom is just across the road for him in JP nagar (And that was in his consideration set)

[am1m]

By how much does being in the sun for hours affect modern electric scooter batteries/range? I have covered parking at home, but when I park at the Metro station, my bike is usually out in the sun for most of the day and all of the afternoon. Wondering how much an EV will be affected by that over years? Or is that not an issue at all? (Thanks in advance for any info/personal experiences.)