[aniketi]

This question is in my mind for a long time now. Hope experts here will be able to answer. What is the difference between technology for Motorcycles and scooters? For example a Honda motorcycle and Honda Activa? IMHO both should be having similar technology but totally different designs and purpose. Why I am asking this because scooters always give starting trouble, not sure why. If you don't use Activa for 3-4 days, you have to make attempt to start it by multiple button starts or kicks. Whereas for bikes, mostly it starts in first starter, never gives any issue even if you start it after a week. I have Honda CB350 and it always start in first starter only, but when it comes to wife's Activa, it always gives trouble when not used for 3-4 days. Both are from Honda and are well maintained. Still scooters always gives troubles whereas bikes are mostly trouble free in this area.

Ideally both should be using same technology here for starting a vehicle and should work seamlessly. But in actual world it is not. Also kicks for scooters like Activa are very poor and takes special skill to start. Bike kicks are straight forward and you can easily start bike quickly. Hope experts throw some light here. Thanks in advance.

[ashis89]

You're comparing a fuel injected bike with an old carburetor fed scooter. Try starting an old Honda Unicorn, a Gladiator or even a Splendor (newer ones) and you will see the difference. A lot also depends on the fueling.

The BS6 scooters start in 1-2 kicks even after 8-10 days of dormancy.

PS: wherever I have owned/ridden two different generations of the same model, I found the newer generations had better fuel efficiency but invariably suffered from cold start issues, which alludes to my last point. HH Splendor, Passion, Glamour, Bajaj Caliber (and 115), Pulsar - all had this observation across generations.

[Sebring]

I'm sorry but our old Unicorn (2006) and Bajaj Discover 125 (2005) never gave starting trouble. Not once, unless there came a time to replace battery. I'm also starting to question this now.

Originally Posted by ashis89

You're comparing a fuel injected bike with an old carburetor fed scooter. Try starting an old Honda Unicorn, a Gladiator or even a Splendor (newer ones) and you will see the difference. A lot also depends on the fueling.

[ashis89]

In our coastal town with moderate temperatures, Unicorns and Hero Hondas were known to struggle during the first start of the day until they warm up(multiple examples among friends, family and neighbors). A dab of the choke helped sputter to life on a cool morning. My Caliber 115 2003 used to struggle but uncle's Discover 2005 didn't, neither did my 2004 Pulsar 150. Best of all was our gen 1 Caliber '98, no trouble with cold starts ever even though temperatures in winter were in single digits.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by ashis89

You're comparing a fuel injected bike with an old carburetor fed scooter. Try starting an old Honda Unicorn, a Gladiator or even a Splendor (newer ones) and you will see the difference. A lot also depends on the fueling.

To answer this, I had Bajaj Caliber from 1998 to 2007 and Pulsar 180 which was bought in 2007 and I used it for 14 years till I sold it in 2022. Both never gave me such starting issues in their entire life. When I came back from US after a office visit for a month, Pulsar started in 2-3 button starts and no issues at all after raising (giving accelerator) it for a few seconds. Whereas in such scenarios, scooters give lots of trouble and takes lot of time for smooth ride till engine is sufficiently hot. I am sure there is some difference in technology.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by aniketi

What is the difference between technology for Motorcycles and scooters?

Frame, engine mount, storage, typically transmission {can exclude VFR}, riding position, manuverability all these factors differentiate scooters & motorcycles. Scooters primarily are designed for short, urban commuting while motorcycles does anywhere from short urban commuting to long intercontinental touring.

Originally Posted by aniketi

scooters always give starting trouble, not sure why

Not really; our Activa nearing 24 year old works on self start even after 8+ days of non usage {tested in July 2023}, that's carb. My uncle at home town has 3 X 2005-2009 models of Activa {his theory is backup for a backup for his primary Activa}, all running well with varied ODO anywhere from 30K to 90K. My C250R started with a mild crank trouble after 5+ months of rust, sorry rest , that's Fi. Anyway, these are just examples, Point being: A vehicle made with good technology {esp Japs} when maintained well are almost trouble free, but other vehicles too, if taken care well should be trouble free.

Originally Posted by aniketi

Also kicks for scooters like Activa are very poor and takes special skill to start. Bike kicks are straight forward and you can easily start bike quickly

Scooter have side kick starts for the convenience of starting + motorcycles have mid mounted engine making the kicker at mid, while scooters have rear engine & hence the obvious kickstarter's position. They're placed at rear for gaining maximum efficiency & loss of power.

[SKC-auto]

I have seen many Activas having problem starting in the morning, my Suzuki Access never had this problem, never in my 8 year ownership I kick started.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by aniketi

This question is in my mind for a long time now. Hope experts here will be able to answer. What is the difference between technology for Motorcycles and scooters?

I'll partially answer the question in the thread title, and not the starter specific question you have subsequently asked.

The most substantial difference between a motorcycle and a scooter, in my mind, is to do with the difference in stability, braking and control, arising out of (i) the angular momentum differences due to wheel diameter, (ii) the difference in loading of the front wheel and (iii) the difference in wheebase.
This makes a motorcycle, in general, more composed at higher speeds, and over a variety of standard and emergent conditions, whereas a scooter is more suited to lower speed, shorter distance usage on account of it's agility.
A lot of modern scooters are getting closer to the basic motorcycle design, but there will be limits to what can achieved by such compromises.

[antz.bin]

I live in a society with ~1000 flats. If I hear a long starter being run, being run multiple times, 9 times out of 10, it is a scooter. I work from home and my desk is next to the window so I tend to hear such things a lot. I wouldn't be able to make out the brand of the scooter but we all know which one is the largest selling model. If it helps, I have seen this happen on a 10 day old Honda Grazia as well.

There *is* a problem that exists. A problem that was solved by Yamaha using the more powerful Smart Motor Generator (SMG) on their new Fascino and RayZ scooters which make no sound at all.

It would make sense that we acknowledge that a problem exists and switch to a superior product that doesn't have that problem. Already far too many Activas are selling, its time to choose differently maybe?

[sanchari]

The engine appears to be tuned for lower power/torque in scooters compared to bikes, in my random observations. For e.g, Hero Splendor wit 97.2cc engine has more power and similar torque to 110cc Activa engine. Even earlier 20 years back when I had original Hero Honda Splendor, I was able to reach 70kmph easily compared to 100cc scooters.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by aniketi

What is the difference between technology for Motorcycles and scooters?

Difference between Chappatis and Rotis. Both are made of (mainly) Wheat. Both are made into a dough before baking them but they taste different. I'm no North Indian to point out the nuances.

Motorcycles and Scooters are something the similar. Scooters, in their original design, were built keeping the overall appeal in mind. Hence they have their tank in odd positions so that commuters, especially ladies don't have to do half summersault to get into riding position. Motorcycles, lets admit, was originally designed for men by men and that's that.

Given this broad proposition designers had to squeeze engine tank and other components into dark and un-spanner friendly places while designing a scooter. The result of such an exercise was not always a success.

[SmartCat]

100 cc motorcycle usually has significantly higher fuel economy than a 100 cc scooter. Any idea why? Sure scooter uses CVT transmission, but is it responsible for lower fuel economy in scooters? We don't see much fuel economy difference between MT & CVT in a car.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

100 cc motorcycle usually has significantly higher fuel economy than a 100 cc scooter. Any idea why? Sure scooter uses CVT transmission, but is it responsible for lower fuel economy in scooters? We don't see much fuel economy difference between MT & CVT in a car.

Hello Sir, Motorcycle vs Scooter: Weight, aerodynamics & efficiency + weight distribution plays a big role in FE & like I said earlier: Purpose, plays an important role as well. Here's an identical comparison



If you look at the configuration highlighted in Maroon, same engine capacity, even the bore & stroke are same, but with one minor difference on compression ratio the output of torque & engine output become slightly less on the scooter. Why? Scooters are lesser efficient for a different purpose {short commute & transporting goods} & ofcourse motorcycles have better efficiency {due to frame, larger wheels, better design}

Cars: Weight distribution, aerodynamics & weight of the car between Manual & AT are near identical {including frame & engine mount}; also the purpose of manual & AT cars are the same, its just the convenience of gears matters unlike the significant differences between scooter & motorcycle.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

There *is* a problem that exists. A problem that was solved by Yamaha using the more powerful Smart Motor Generator (SMG) on their new Fascino and RayZ scooters which make no sound at all

My intention is to clear the terminology here.
SMG as per Yamaha is:

The “Smart Motor Generator (SMG)” fitted to the RayZR 125 Fi Hybrid brings a quieter engine start without the need for a separate conventional electric starter

Whether its powerful or not, I'm not qualified to comment unless I had measured the output; in coloquial terms, this motor is to quiet starting the engine without making the gear engaging noise.

I was thrilled knowing Yamaha scooters having this silent start technology 2 years ago, which was newly introduced at that time; unfortunately I got to know later that Honda had already employed this technology on their ongoing models earlier than Yamaha scooters known as ACG. Suzuki was the last to adopt this technology; if I'm not wrong last Sep starting with Burgman & later in Access 125 that I'm voraciously vying to buy

[sreejithkk]

Originally Posted by aniketi

This question is in my mind for a long time now. Hope experts here will be able to answer. What is the difference between technology for Motorcycles and scooters? For example a Honda motorcycle and Honda Activa?

The only major difference I could remember is the way the engine is cooled. For air cooled motorcycle engines, since it is located at the front, it was cooled by direct contact to air as the vehicle travels. Since the scooter engine is hidden below the seat, there is a centrifugal fan next to the engine which is directing the air flow to the engine.

Regarding the starting troubles in carburetor vehicles, I believe it is based on the carburetor tuning to an extent. I still have 2004 Activa and it is nightmare to start if left unused for a week. It was like this from day one. I had 2006 Honda shine, which also had cold start issue but not as bad as Activa. My cousin's 2018 Hornet also had similar issue. Where as my brother in law's 2002 Kawasaki Caliber which I used recently never had such issue. It still starts at the first kick even after left idle for a month.