[bhupesh]

Servicing Note for owners in Bengaluru -

1. Khivraj Ecity is taking bikes for servicing but on the app their slots would show as unavailable. On weekdays, even a walk-in is possible.

2. The service centre is behind the showroom

3. They don't have any accessory right now (even the tank pad is unavailable)

4. There's a software upgrade which you should remember about (I had to revisit them for this). Apparently, this is for the fuel gauge problem.

[davelok]

Originally Posted by bhupesh

Servicing Note for owners in Bengaluru -

3. They don't have any accessory right now (even the tank pad is unavailable)

4. There's a software upgrade which you should remember about (I had to revisit them for this). Apparently, this is for the fuel gauge problem.

I got a survey message today from Triumph India. Two of the issues I mentioned are the lack of accessories, and the completely unreliable fuel gauge (Distance To Empty reading) after the software update.

The main thing accomplished by the update is that the low fuel warning now comes up when 3.2 litres are left, instead of the 1.5l earlier. The original setting was apparently leaving a number of people stranded, because it was close to the dead stock in the tank.

[lazyrev]

Originally Posted by CityRyder

I want to lube the chain for my Speed 400 but I dont have Paddock stand.
Has anyone tried using car jack to lift back tyre for lubing? I saw that in one of the Youtube videos.

Any other innovative ideas to lube with paddock stand?

+1 for the grandpitstop moto jack. Works wonderfully and is portable so you can take it with you on long rides. Also, I bought a cheap copy first time around and the grips were poor quality so it would slip. Returned and bought the grandpitstop one. Check reviews before buying.

Paddock stand is great for repair work if you intend to DIY stuff, and if you can store it (not easy in apartments).

[davelok]

Is there any trick for retracting the side stand for fitting an extender shoe to it, without having to look for a paddock, or a slave to hold the bike up?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by davelok

Is there any trick for retracting the side stand for fitting an extender shoe to it, without having to look for a paddock, or a slave to hold the bike up?

Prop the bike against a tree or a wall.

Cheers, Doc

[davelok]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Prop the bike against a tree or a wall.

Cheers, Doc

That would damage the paint or blinkers, wouldn't it?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by davelok

That would damage the paint or blinkers, wouldn't it?

Use a towel or a bedsheet or dari.

https://youtu.be/SrbjkZgVueo?si=rRsq-hEyzsM3XEJl

Cheers, Doc

[kedar3223]

Going through some online content and talking to people, I have noticed a pattern in people evaluating the speed 400:

Take a test ride, rave about the build, performance(especially the tractability), suspension setup. Diss the instrument console, lack of features and dimensions to a lesser extend. Everyone ends up being generally happy with the product but this is almost always qualified with "i fear i will get used to/bored with the bike few months down the line, which is why i wont recommend/purchase the bike".

I have never seen so many people arriving at this very conclusion on the same bike, ever. Quite astonishing actually for a bike with 40 odd bhp and torque that feels very punchy to ride. Never heard the same feedback for any other sub 3-3.5L bike with similar or lesser power figures.

Is this an outcome of the bike actually not being exciting or difficult to ride, social media parroting or people not riding the bike within the optimum torque band during the short test rides? Has the name 'triumph speed' set the expectations really high?

[hikozaru]

I think it is a subpar package having ridden it for just 500m. According to reports its vibey from 6k onward and we see it makes only 30hp at 6k https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post5574608 (Triumph Speed 400 and Scrambler 400 X unveiled) and weighs a portly 176Kg. The Honda CB300R at 7k rpm (past which it is vibey, again my experience from a short couple of flat track style laps) puts out 24hp https://www.cycleworld.com/honda-cb3...ke-comparison/ (note that the Honda graph is rear wheel power, I don't know about the Triumph, which could be up to a good 3hp lower at the wheel) while weighing a lot less at 147Kg or something. The power to weight ratio difference at this point is negligible and it is the same story all the way up until 110kmph where the 300R runs out of steam and gets vibey. So whatever the Triumph does, the Honda does better. The CB is also more hooligan than the speed. Thanks to the awful stock tyres, skids are as natural as breathing on the CB.

The clutch is harder than the CB, it heats up a lot more than the CB even when idling on a normal day in Bangalore (other cities have it worse).

Even that 30hp from the stonking midrange gets boring very quickly when you have to stop every 10 seconds in Bangalore traffic only to look at that ugly dash. Compared to the Duke 390, the speed makes its power lower down, rendering it useless (in comparison) on the highways. In my opinion its a needlessly inefficient city bike (worse fuel efficiency, clutch, vibes, weight, filtering (with bar end mirrors)) compared to the likes of the MT15, RTR 200, with worse everything than its city competitors like the CB and too slow for the highway compared to the KTM 390s.

It is best at only one thing, dissecting back roads. End straight, brake, wait for exit, throttle out, repeat, all in third gear, but then again I'd rather have the little honda at its current price point for this job.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by kedar3223

Take a test ride, rave about the build, performance(especially the tractability), suspension setup. Diss the instrument console, lack of features and dimensions to a lesser extend. Everyone ends up being generally happy with the product but this is almost always qualified with "i fear i will get used to/bored with the bike few months down the line, which is why i wont recommend/purchase the bike".

This, IMHO, is a case of not managing expectations. First off, most people do not know what a Triumph really is or stands for. I've had the opportunity to ride a Trident for about 70 km, a Speed 400 on a test as well as recently a friend's which was delivered last week. I've tested the Scrambler as well. So here's why I think this opinion comes about:

1. The Triumph is unmemorable because looking at the spec sheet, you expect a KTM. What you get, effectively, is something resembling a Royal Enfield in the range of 3k - 6k rpm, and a slightly out-of-breath KTM from 8k onward. Those who think they will get bored of this, it's because this bike demands nothing more than a small modicum of skill from its riders. It is not meant to test you or to reprimand you for changing gear. It is not meant to make you feel like a king because you're riding with your pecs popping out. It is a fast, quick, commuter - it isn't going to ask anything from you because it wants to make your journey as comfortable as possible. No extra wrist movement. No huge heavy body to make you wrestle with it in the corners. No demands to change gear at low rpms in traffic.

2. This isn't a big bike. The Classic has more road presence than a Speed. This is not going to earn you looks because it demands attention. It will do it because it will glide past someone and they will take a second look because of how beautiful it looks, how composed but alive it sounds, and so on. A Classic seems almost like a brash hooligan in comparison, in traffic, and a KTM feels like a hyperactive teenager. This is a gentleman. We Indians are used to two extremes of a personality in a bike, and our preferences by and large tend to lean one way or another. This is something entirely different.

Finally, this is a Triumph in the truest sense of the word, because this is like an aristocrat of sorts. The Speed Twin 1200 is the lord, the Speed Twin 900 his heir, and the 400 his overlooked second son, but it still has all the manners of its family. So if you are looking to be entertained, and your taste goes toward the two extremes, then yes, you will be bored, and this is not the bike for you anyway.

Originally Posted by hikozaru

I think it is a subpar package having ridden it for just 500m. According to reports its vibey from 6k onward and we see it makes only 30hp at 6k

Based on your view, this is exactly the wrong bike for you. The Speed is just as competent on the highway for the vast majority of people as the Duke 390, but it's much easier on the wrist. And I didn't need to change gear to perform a quick overtake. The Honda (I've ridden a 2022 model year bike) is not even in the same class. It's much smaller in dimensions, and it's so light it almost feels like a toy. The clutch, etc are all signature Honda, but it feels slow and unresponsive in the 6th gear. And I've heard of problems with spares etc., not that it needs a lot of maintenance. The Speed is happiest between 3 and 6k - but the vibes past 6k are pretty minor to me, they just get annoying past 8k. The Honda begins shaking if I push much past 7k, not expected for mini-racing naked like this. And in Bangalore traffic, there's no real point in taking anything other than a scooter anyway to me.

[hikozaru]

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Finally, this is a Triumph in the truest sense of the word, because this is like an aristocrat of sorts

You probably mean it is a Triumph modern classic (and not the triple lineup, not that I've ridden any other triumph bike) but there are two things Triumph did wrong with that line of thinking. Triumph has had like four logos so far? The OG badge which you can find on their T series bonevilles, a stylised text version during the daytona era, standard logo on all their bikes and the newest Union Jack inspired logo, which first appeared on the Trident? I mean, a true aristocrat would not snub Indians so openly with half a union jack painted in such a garish, contrasty colour, covering a massive portion of the compact bike (or at least I hope so). I am a bit of britaboo myself but even I find this tacky as hell. Only the Italians plaster their flag in a more ostentatious fashion but even they have the decency to offer non italian colourways (funnily enough as the base models at lower price). If I had to own a speed, I'd rather swap the tank with the scrambler 400x. This is my first complaint with comparisons to the modern classic lineup.

The second is, their triples are their performance oriented lineup. A little buzz here and there per european sensibilities is alright. But even here they are almost a bit like Apple of the bike world. They never pursued performance above all else and they've certainly had no qualms detuning their bikes when they've felt like it. I see no reason why this bike couldn't have had a 7k redline (with only 30hp) with zero vibes across the entire range, especially for their modern classic range. Clearly, they were not looking to max the A2 power limit and this way they'd still come out ahead of the BMW G310R in Europe. Perhaps it was Bajaj that pushed Triumph to eke out more performance out of their engine, we will never know, but I think with these two points I can say that it is not a true Triumph modern classic.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

The Speed is happiest between 3 and 6k - but the vibes past 6k are pretty minor to me, they just get annoying past 8k.

Happy to hear that. In my short ride of the speed, I never went past 5k and third gear, and I found it to be perfectly alright at 5k. That is why I started my speculations with an 'apparently'. The observations about the clutch, gearbox, heating, ergos are my own experiences.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Based on your view, this is exactly the wrong bike for you.

True, no arguments there.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

It's much smaller in dimensions

Not a lot more than the CB if I recall correctly. Perhaps the single seat on the speed feels (and is) roomier for 2up than the raised split seat on the CB

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

it's so light it almost feels like a toy

And to me, that is why this is one of the most evocative bikes out in the entire world market today (funny, coming from the brand which has a dreadfully boring lineup (even internationally)). It is the definition of a motorcycle. motor in a cycle.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

The Honda begins shaking if I push much past 7k, not expected for mini-racing naked like this

True. It somehow is more vibey than the r15 which comes with metal pegs. I'm interested in hearing your experience of the bike in more detail (on the CB300R thread) as I am in the market for an A2 bike myself.

[kedar3223]

Originally Posted by hikozaru

I think it is a subpar package having ridden it for just 500m.

Ouch, that bad?

The power to weight ratio difference at this point is negligible and it is the same story all the way up until 110kmph where the 300R runs out of steam and gets vibey. So whatever the Triumph does, the Honda does better. The CB is also more hooligan than the speed. Thanks to the awful stock tyres, skids are as natural as breathing on the CB....

Compared to the Duke 390, the speed makes its power lower down, rendering it useless (in comparison) on the highways. ..

In my opinion its a needlessly inefficient city bike (worse fuel efficiency, clutch, vibes, weight, filtering (with bar end mirrors)) compared to the likes of the MT15, RTR 200, with worse everything than its city competitors like the CB and too slow for the highway compared to the KTM 390s.

Having not ridden the cb300r, does it really run out of steam @110? As per my expectation and standards, the triumph does have strong performance till 130 for a 400cc, be it outright acceleration and more importantly lazy roll-ons. My yardstick would be a duke 390, which has vibey bottom end, hesitant and vibey pickup below 5.5k rpm requiring constant downshifts, way nicer pull and composure beyond 7k rpm till redline, more composed suspension to handle high speed crests. How does the cb300r, gen 1/2 duke 250, tvs/bmw 310 compare in this city tractability regard as well as high performance? Does the speed feel like a good compromise between the cb300r's city performance and duke390's highway ability? Because as per my understanding, duke doesn't do as well in the city as speed 400 and the cb300r doesn't do highway as good as speed 400.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

This, IMHO, is a case of not managing expectations.
1. The Triumph is unmemorable because looking at the spec sheet, you expect a KTM. What you get, effectively, is something resembling a Royal Enfield in the range of 3k - 6k rpm, and a slightly out-of-breath KTM from 8k onward. Those who think they will get bored of this, it's because this bike demands nothing more than a small modicum of skill from its riders. It is not meant to test you or to reprimand you for changing gear.

2. This isn't a big bike. The Classic has more road presence than a Speed. This is not going to earn you looks because it demands attention.

Makes sense.

I am struggling to gauge and compare the vibration post 7k rpm that everyone seems to complain about. There just isn't a day and night difference between the triumph and the gen 2, gen 3 390 and gen 2 duke 250 that I have ridden. Maybe i am not experienced enough to pick up on it.

So is it a boring bike with regards to not being the best at one of the two extremes? Does this way of thinking really make sense? Isn't the bike close enough performance wise to the champs of the 2 extremes, RE350 and ktm390?

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by hikozaru

This is my first complaint with comparisons to the modern classic lineup.

Hahaha none of their modern classics are truly classic any more. They're all styled to be reminiscent of classics. If you want a proper classic, Royal Enfield is still the most classic thing out there IMO.

Originally Posted by hikozaru

Clearly, they were not looking to max the A2 power limit and this way they'd still come out ahead of the BMW G310R in Europe.

That's definitely not their goal at all. They could detune the 660 bikes for A2 riders, if they really felt like it. The point of these is to straddle two worlds: aspirational Asians on one side, and newbie riders who literally have the least amount of cash in the West.

Originally Posted by hikozaru

The observations about the clutch, gearbox, heating, ergos are my own experiences.

The clutch is almost on par with the Highness, IMO. That said, the test bikes and the initial journalist bikes are messed up in terms of setting for vibration, gearbox smoothness and the clutch, check out MotorInc's video on the Scrambler 400x for details. The second lot of production and the Scrambler are much more sorted. And to be fair, on a hot Bangalore afternoon, no single cylinder bigger than 300 cc will ever feel cool. The Honda CB300R's engine is smaller and by far more compact and easier to cool overall. Compare it to a KTM 390 engine, they both heat up.

Originally Posted by hikozaru

Not a lot more than the CB if I recall correctly. Perhaps the single seat on the speed feels (and is) roomier for 2up than the raised split seat on the CB

The front half of the seat is longer and wider, the Speed is 300 mm longer and a little taller. The CB300 has slightly bigger handlebars.

Originally Posted by hikozaru

True. It somehow is more vibey than the r15 which comes with metal pegs. I'm interested in hearing your experience of the bike in more detail (on the CB300R thread) as I am in the market for an A2 bike myself.

There's not much to add to that thread from my side. As someone big and tall, it feels way too small. It's almost invisible under me. The sixth gear feels a bit lazy, and the shifting frequency is pretty similar to the 250 Duke, but higher than the 250 Gixxer. The lightness makes it enormously fun but also a tad unsteady when heavily loaded, it just isn't intended for that sort of load. Overall, just not my type of bike.

Originally Posted by kedar3223

Ouch, that bad?

No, it is not. Not the ones in the second lot anyway. Depends on what you're used to. Coming from a sub-250 cc, not at all bad. Coming from an RE, pretty damn easy to live with. Coming from a smooth Honda? yes, you'll notice it, but it isn't that bad.

Originally Posted by kedar3223

Having not ridden the cb300r, does it really run out of steam @110? As per my expectation and standards, the triumph does have strong performance till 130 for a 400cc, be it outright acceleration and more importantly lazy roll-ons. My yardstick would be a duke 390, which has vibey bottom end, hesitant and vibey pickup below 5.5k rpm requiring constant downshifts, way nicer pull and composure beyond 7k rpm till redline, more composed suspension to handle high speed crests. How does the cb300r, gen 1/2 duke 250, tvs/bmw 310 compare in this city tractability regard as well as high performance? Does the speed feel like a good compromise between the cb300r's city performance and duke390's highway ability? Because as per my understanding, duke doesn't do as well in the city as speed 400 and the cb300r doesn't do highway as good as speed 400.

Yes, the Honda doesn't go far beyond 110 without feeling like it's done. I managed to push it to 90-95 on an empty highway. Carves corners like almost nothing else though. It's actually a nearly square bike, length or wheelbase = height. The TVS 320 and the Duke 250 are more racey-type engines. The speed is a nearly-perfect compromise between an RE and a proper corner carver/naked racer like the CB and the Duke. Between 3 - 6k the vibes are Honda level. Post 8k they are Duke level. It isn't that they're very high, it's the different between the two regions of rom that is a high difference. Ride it like a Duke and ye shall have Duke levels of vibration. Ride it like a Royal Enfield and it shall give Honda level vibrations.

Originally Posted by kedar3223

So is it a boring bike with regards to not being the best at one of the two extremes? Does this way of thinking really make sense? Isn't the bike close enough performance wise to the champs of the 2 extremes, RE350 and ktm390?

No, it is not boring as long as you don't want it to run like a Duke or look like and RE. Think of it as their love child. It will give you performance, just not as maniacally as a Duke. It will give you presence, but more subtly than an RE.

[Raskolnikov.R]

Originally Posted by hikozaru

I think it is a subpar package having ridden it for just 500m.

And you're able to make such an emphatic statement based on the 500 meters?

Well, I've ridden a bit more than you, and I hope I can add some perspective in this regard.

How much more?

About 1,950 km.

There is a section of the population who seek out a 40 HP engine without the power being produced at the very top of the powerband. I am one of them.

I could afford the KTM for the last decade but I didn't put my money on it. Not because I can't make use of the topend. Heck! I come from the OG Pulsar 180 dTsi.

As I've grown older, I enjoy riding my bike longer, not faster. Today, I can do 800+ km rides with ease, as compared to the 500 km rides but ending up tired.

Every life has a purpose. And a singular one at that.

The same can be said about every bike, car, bicycle, or scooter (just from the automotive world.) If you believe the little Honda is the best bike for you, I'm sure every one of us will celebrate your decision.

And in the same lines, the little Triumph manages to get most of what the new market customers seek. And Triumph and Bajaj have done a fabulous job in delivering a bike that is specifically NOT a KTM 390 clone.

BTW, a close friend sold his Honda 300 and picked up the Speed 400. To him, each bike has its one USP, and there is no point in talking up one over the other.

Cheers, and ride safe!

[lazyrev]

I've done about 2000 kms on mine and this bike has been an absolute pleasure for every single one of them. Totally comfortable doing whatever you ask of it, whether it is a slow sunset ride or a 220km sprint across to Tamhini at 110-120kmph. I still manage to sneak in a quick ride to the shop every single day. There is NOTHING that can make me feel "used to" or "bored" of a powerful 40 bhp road raider that is built well, comes at a jaw dropping price and looks this good.

A friend who owns a CB350 tried it out and loved it himself. The bike has been a total head turner wherever I go (they are not looking at me, rest assured), much more than I expected as well. Hell, parked next to all it's non ADV competitors, the bike looks the right size. Even the dimensions on paper will tell you that.

Just like the glorified hustle culture in corporates, there seems to be this thought process in people that if something is in your control and does what you wish when you ask it to, it isnt good enough or doesnt have "character". Somehow there is a want to make things difficult, just so they can tell tell themselves, "look, I did it despite all the challenges". I don't think we should subscribe to this in any aspect of life.

There has been a recent spate of negative comments from folks in multiple forums. Most of them come with some sort of misled expectations and very catchy, zingy words from their favourite youtuber, who needs to say different things to stand out to the algorithm. There has been a trend of "if he is saying something different, he has to be right and the rest are all paid media".

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you want and sometimes you dont know what you want till you've tried something different. Test ride the bike 3-4 times. Spend 15-20km with it if you can, and then use all the big words and absolutes you want because it may still not be for you and that is totally alright.