[lazyrev]

Originally Posted by vzvish91

This is an interesting thought experiment that I'll like to put out here; want to see what experienced buyers here have to say about it.
…
I just want to convey that do not rush into the buying decision without taking proper testrides first, especially when this 300-500cc sub 5lakhs onroad bike segment is getting hot in India!

Originally Posted by antz.bin

I fit your thought experiment to the T.

So I actually test rode the following bikes in chronological order:

It is indeed an interesting experiment and one I have toyed with for over a month now. Just like @antz.bin, I did a few test rides too and my experience was very similar. I have detailed reviews as well but I didnt want to add it here as it could be off topic. I test rode the Hunter 350, the CB 350 and the 390 ADV X (only sat on the duke and RC) and all of this only convinced me more and more that the speed 400 is what I want.

As for waiting, I didnt have any plans to buy a new bike. I am at the stage where the natural thought was to buy a new car. But the more I thought about it, it felt impractical for just me and my wife (I have 2 days at office that is 2 km away and she is remote). Felt like something that will just rot and lose value unless we force ourselves to go to a mall just to make the car run a bit.

So when the speed 400 came out, it felt like a bolt of lightning. It all made sense. I always wanted a powerful bike, ever since I rode my friend's 2013 RC390 (I had my trusty 160 apache back then too). My wife was totally on board too after seeing the classy/mature/sophisticated look and feel of the speed 400. She actively disliked the KTMs and found the CB350 to be a bit boring. The hunter is very nice but it doesnt suit my style and wouldn’t be a great upgrade over my apache anyway. I also could afford something more expensive.

All this to say that the heart wants what it wants. After sleepless nights calculating and going through all the permutations and combinations, I wake up to see another video of the speed 400 and all of it goes out of the window.

I still remember going "whooaa" when I twisted the throttle during the test ride. I was riding alone and it echoed inside my helmet. I think I am just going to have to buckle up and wait for things to happen, because I know I will be happy when I have the bike.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Coming back to dilemma of when is the right time to buy the bike, i have come to realize that motorcycles are a matter of heart. Once the money is arranged for, numbers, statistics, logic, take a back seat and all we want is to get the delivery of the motorcycle, and asap.
…
So hold on to your patience, soon the bikes will be delivered and hearts will be happy.

You are so right. Triumph has got so much right, from the launch date, the price, the discount. Hell, they even got the bikes into showrooms to test ride within a month of launch (look at HD-Hero for comparison) and they even gave each showroom 3-4 TR bikes and at least 3 display pieces. The speed and efficiency has been top notch until now, with deliveries starting within 2 months within launch.

I guess all this has raised my expectations so much and because of this unfamiliar passion I seem to have developed (ref. above long post), I am being a bit unfair and impatient. I will shut up about this for now. I even dropped a message to my contact at BUB saying that he can let me know as soon as my turn comes and that I will 100% be buying the bike.

Originally Posted by antz.bin

More common stuff:

Both have the same bore and stroke
Both are made in the same plant

Only the displacement numbers are out so I would still say that the engines will be different. Triumph and Bajaj have indicated that the engine is not going to be reused/repurposed outside of their partnership. If anything, Bajaj will probably be closer to taking inspiration from this engine for their pulsar, than KTM would.

KTM already has a 373cc to repurpose for competitiveness, which they are doing now. Even the gearing is on the other side on the Triumph, which is a huge difference in any engine architecture. The compression ratios, materials, valvetrain assemblies all play a huge role, as we know. Altering the 373cc will be so much more sensible than going for the Triumph engine. They will get more power and torque, while keeping the KTM-ness of it, that people seem to thoroughly enjoy and love.

Assuming the engines are similar is like assuming the CB350 engine and J series 350 are practically the same, because the displacements and power/torque figures are similar.

[LordSharan]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Are you sure on this one? As most have claimed the Triumph 400 platform to be a completely new design. Also, KTM and Triumph are sort of competitors in Indian and International market, so wonder if they would exchange tech.

I know that there's more to engine than specs, but the bore and stroke for the 2024 Duke 390 and Speed 400 are same (80mm and 64mm), in fact the 2024 Duke 390 was launched post Speed 400 launch. Since both bikes were developed (and will be produced) by Bajaj, what's stopping them to share the engine platform? Proprietory tech and everything else including transmission would sit on top of the platform.

BTW, Triumph Speed 400 and 2024 Duke 390 have been ignited the craving for having a new motorbike after a very long time (my first and only purchase was P220F in 2015 which I still retain and was the only bike that I wanted to buy since it's launch in 2007, and even in 2015. It's a gem that I'll never ever part with, given the memories and trust that I've on it).

[lazyrev]

Originally Posted by LordSharan

Since both bikes were developed (and will be produced) by Bajaj, what's stopping them to share the engine platform?
.

The devil lies in this detail though. Both bikes are not developed by Bajaj.

KTM/Bajaj have a very different relationship compared to Triumph/Bajaj. KTM is partly owned by Bajaj itself so it is something of a joint venture with significant tech sharing. Bajaj has a lot of say in what KTM does but only really for the sub 390 segment. Bikes above that are KTM's territory. Because of the ownership structure Bajaj probably has a lot deeper access to KTM tech.

The relationship with Triumph is very different. They are manufacturing the bike for them and have given very valuable inputs to Triumph on how to make the bike mass-producable and to make it attractive to sensibilities of Indians, South East Asians, Africans and South Americans. These are all weaknesses of Triumph (hence the low growth and small revenue streams). What is an absolute strength is their grasp of high performance engine technology. So in the case of the Speed 400, Bajaj and Triumph could stay in their own lanes and find common ground only on things like pricing, supply chain, manufacturing, dealer networks etc. No way Bajaj has the inner deep workings of Triumph engineering. It just isnt that sort of a relationship. Might change if Bajaj buys out significant stake in Triumph, which Rajiv has said is not in the works right now at least.

You can watch Rajiv Bajaj talk about this in a couple of questions (timestamped so you dont have to watch 1.5 hours like I did). The whole video is very interesting too.

https://youtu.be/WoqjAZmNLq4?t=4495

[nasirkaka]

Since both bikes were developed (and will be produced) by Bajaj, what's stopping them to share the engine platform?

@ lazyrev has well explained the relation between Bajaj & KTM & Bajaj & Triumph. Bajaj owns ~49% of KTM as a company.

The Triumph 400 Engine design and engineering would have most likely conceived, commenced and completed in Hinckley and tested too. (similarly KTM 390 engine would have been designed and tested in Austria).

Bajaj's forte is low cost, mass manufacturing and for that reason, they have been assigned to manufacture the triumph 400 in India for Indian market as well as export . Now we dont really know the fine prints of terms of their agreement, but its safe to assume that core design if Ktm 390 engine and Triumph 400 engine would be different.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

They goofed up the date or was it open last month? Says 27th July,2023?

Ok so Khivraj insta team indeed goofed up the date. Just saw this on insta today. So its this Sunday.



Anyone headed that way for the opening? I was planning to visit but now seeing the YT influencer being present planning to avoid as crowd would be too much(or atleast looks like that in his videos when there's a meet-up). Monday is a holiday, planning to pay a visit that day.

[neoonwheels]

BTW I dont know if its discussed here but Speed 400 will have Bajaj as manufacturer on RC and NOT Triumph. Just checked mine on RTO site and it shows Bajaj as manufacturer

[lazyrev]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

BTW I dont know if its discussed here but Speed 400 will have Bajaj as Manf on RC and NOT Triumph. Just checked mine on RTO site and it shows Bajaj as manf

Haha yes, I saw it on another forum. Apparently it's the same case with KTM bikes, since it rolls out of Bajaj's Chakan plant too.

[davelok]

There is so much concern around about possible quality issues, but it seems that Triumph is trying to assuage it by offering a longer warranty on the Speed 400 as compared to its standard terms.

While Triumph India's standard warranty conditions are for two years and unlimited mileage, the Speed 400 has a five year / 45,000km warranty (usual inclusions and exclusions). I find this to be rather reassuring.

Of course, only time will tell if the parts subject to regular wear and tear last long enough.

[sk_cheek13]

Originally Posted by davelok

While Triumph India's standard warranty conditions are for two years and unlimited mileage, the Speed 400 has a five year / 45,000km warranty (usual inclusions and exclusions). I find this to be rather reassuring.

Where did you get this from? The official site says 2 years unlimited warranty for speed 400.

https://www.triumphmotorcycles.in/mo...edible%20value.

[davelok]

Originally Posted by sk_cheek13

Where did you get this from? The official site says 2 years unlimited warranty for speed 400.

I know. I got it from the dealer, double confirmed it with them as well.

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by davelok

I know. I got it from the dealer, double confirmed it with them as well.

I asked the SA at BU Bhandari Pune immediately after I saw your post.

He has confirmed that the warranty is 2 years / Unlimited Km.

[davelok]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

I asked the SA at BU Bhandari Pune immediately after I saw your post.

He has confirmed that the warranty is 2 years / Unlimited Km.

Let's see. So far Riya Triumph Ahmedabad seems confident about it.

[vzvish91]

Originally Posted by davelok

...Speed 400 has a five year / 45,000km warranty (usual inclusions and exclusions)...

Looks like Triumph is offering extended warranty of upto 5years free of cost
Probably Honda CB350 effect

Source: skip to t=65s

https://youtu.be/GniO5s1Hom0?si=aDs6zTqIcq64RJG-&t=65s

[shailinder]

A decent comparison between Speed 400, Duke 390 and Dominar 400. However, those carvings for Duke 390, I think, they MUST wait for the new one. But as someone said above, and we heard umpteen number of times, "we are not getting younger".

So, choose what is wise today. Tomorrow, yeah, hack, who knows about tomorrow!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRA5Xayvu4&t=739s

[pskanp]

Originally Posted by shailinder

"we are not getting younger"[/i].

So, choose what is wise today. Tomorrow, yeah, hack, who knows about tomorrow!!!
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=lCRA5Xayvu4&t=739s

I'm an old fart of 6'1" 88kgs and RE TB500 owner since 10 years here. Had nearly finalised and was going to book the new black alloy wheel model of Int650 when a slight upper back sprain put me to bed rest for a month. That time changed my whole outlook and thought process regarding most things in life. I had lost hope to ride again (that was sort of foolish but you tend to think silly while on bed after an injury). I recuperated and started riding again. Now I've dropped the plan for Int650 solely because of its weight and wanted something light with okayish power. This is the reason I’m considering the 400X. Don’t get me wrong for TB500, it’s a fantastic capable and a head turning bike. Because with the passage of time I will only get older, and maneuverability will also be important then. So, I’m waiting for the launch of 400X. It might be able to do Ladakh also. I may or may not go to Spiti, Ladakh or Sach pass on a bike but still that is my dream. I believe having some unfulfilled dreams in the end are always better than not having any dreams at all.