[ShattereDarknes]

Hello folks. I've been lurking on this website for quite a while now. I've gone through most threads for bike recommendations in the recent years and I finally decided to make my own thread.

A bit of an intro first, I wasn't always into bikes. Actually, I wasn't always into driving as a whole . The only reason I learnt to drive a scooter was because I lost my bus pass and had to get to college. My mom tried to force me to buy a bike in my first year itself, but I thought bike was just a waste of money. I never got why people buy them. I was the guy that would judge friends for preferring manual over automatic, and saw bikes as being extremely impractical. I drove one poorly maintained bullet 350 once, just once, and that was enough to change my perspective completely. The feeling of actually being in control of the vehicle, changing gears, using the clutch, all of this made the riding so engaging, I absolutely fell in love with it. Unfortunately I was yet to get a DL back then. I'm mainly looking at naked sports bikes, but I'm willing to look at other categories as well. But having traveling all the way around the sun only 21 times, I'm not that big on retro bikes. My dad was never a fan of them either, so I guess it comes from that.

So I learnt how to drive via a friends fz25 about a month after driving a bike for the first time. Since I knew the basics well, I learnt it surprisingly quickly. Now I'm in the market for a bike, and honestly there aren't a lot of bikes in the segment I'm looking at, which made me happy. But man the few bikes that are there, make it so confusing because of differing ownership experiences. My kind of driving style is 95% relaxed driving, with 5% fun fast acceleration. And I'll be mostly driving in the city. I don't know when, or if I'll ever have the confidence to make a long outside city travel, but I'd like to buy a bike that can do that if needed. But it's not a big priority though.

• Comfortable
• Easy to drive and is forgiving to an extent. Basically beginner friendly
• Easy to maintain. I want a pretty reliable bike
• Has dual channel ABS
• Had a nice smooth engine. The top end rush is nice, but if the engine has good torque, like the FZ25, then I don't mind it
• Has a usable pillion seat. Doesn't have to be extremely comfortable, just usable for atleast city commute occasionally
• Has a decently comfortable suspension for Bangalore roads :

I'm willing to compromise on looks, top end performance for the above. Basically fz25 > mt15 for me, no offense to the mt15 owners .

So let me list all the bikes I'm considering:
Apache RTR 200
One of the frontrunners. One of the first bikes I test drove as well. Has a very smooth engine, is quite rev happy, has a lot of features, has a gear position indicator, good looks(especially that blue), ride modes, adjustable clutch, suspension, you name it. This machine has it. I had almost finalise on this. But there are 2 questions marks.
1). How bad is the pillion seat?
2). Being a 200cc, will I outgrow it too soon? Will it cry on the highway?
3) How good is TVS reliability?
4 Are the features really useful? Are they good enough to tip the decision in this bikes favour?

Yamaha FZ25
With that we come to the 2nd bike, the bike I learnt to drive on, the FZ25. I seem to have a different opinion of this bike than most. When I first drove this, it didn't feel that comfortable. And I could feel mild buzzy vibrations in many places. Perhaps it was just my friends bike, but when I hopped back onto my Activa, I felt more relaxed because of how smooth it was. I also find the lack of a gear position indicator rather frustrating. Also the rear brake level is so high, I cannot rest my foot on the lever.
But when I took a test drive of a new FZ, it somehow felt different. It had all the same problems, even the vibrations. But the ergonomics felt more comfortable, and the bike's strong punch in the mid range was very addictive. I was more experienced with driving when I test drove, and I didn't once look at the console/display. There are a lot of things about this bike to love.

I loved the punchy, torquey engine, the fat rear tires, the overall looks of the bike, the ergonomics is not amazing but it's comfortable and the pillion seat is generous. The vibrations were not annoying either, and its somewhat enjoyable. This seemingly fills the gaps left by the Apache.

But the there are a few big cons.
1) The bike feels quite dated. Instrument cluster is very basic and it doesn't even have a gear position indicator. The BIGGEST factor I'm scared of is, if Yamaha releases an updated FZ sometime this year with a better instrument cluster, and I miss out on it, I will regret it alot.
2) I trust Yamaha more than TVS for reliability, but is this particular model that reliable? I've heard about the break pads wearing out too soon, and the front brake oil leaking. And also a few other issues here and there.
3) Is the ground clearance a hindrance. Keep in mind that I live in Bangalore, and there is always one invisible hump around the corner waiting to kill me any time.
4) Doesn't feel as refined as the Apache. The Apache felt butter smooth at every rev range
5) Doesn't have slipper clutch

If anyone knows about a new FZ25 coming, please do comment. Between these 2, the FZ has my heart, only for that punchy mid range, but my mind says go for the Apache for a more up to date motorcycle. Honestly I like both, but I might end up valuing the smoothness of the Apache's engine, the easier travel to the service center (2KM vs 5 KM for the Apache vs FZ respectively), the better instrument console and the ground clearance, the GTT tech, and the slipper clutch. Honestly I can see myself being happy with either if these, but if a new FZ releases with better features, then I'll regret it.

Pulsar N250
And with that, we come to the pulsar N250. I haven't test driven it yet, as I was told my a Bajaj showroom near me that they're out of stock and I had to go to only 1 main showroom. But talking about the bike itself, it feels like other than the fat rear tyre, it has everything the FZ does, along with a much better instrument cluster, higher ground clearance and a much better top end and also slipper clutch! It also has a great suspension I've heard. It feels like the almost perfect bike, with the right compromises for me.

But there are a few concerns:
1) Bajaj's reliability - how reliable is this bike going to be? I've heard Bajaj's engines are good only for 1-2 years and they deteriorate quite fast. How true is this?
2) That's pretty much it actually.

Bajaj's service center is just as close, if not closer than the TVS. But since I haven't test driven it yet, can't comment.

Gixxer 250
I haven't test driven this either. But the price of this bike has to be a joke, right? It's about 2.37L on road right now. Back when it was 10k more than the FZ, it was a good deal. But now, with the FZ being 2L on road, other than a good engine, it doesn't have much going for it. It has a hard clutch, not so great ergonomics, poor service, vibrations at about 4.5k rpm according to some users and a stiff suspension. Why do people still suggest this bike? Still I'll text drive it once before taking a decision.

Also I keep talking about suspension, I just want a suspension to feel more comfortable than the Activa I have right now. I don't want to feel a jolt whenever I go over a pothhole. From riding the fz, I can tell you that any suspension around that stiff it totally fine for me.

Well that was a long post. Looking forward to y'alls opinions .

[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by ShattereDarknes

Pulsar N250

Pulsar N250 is the best for you at the moment. Don't worry about reliability, etc. for bikes which sell in good numbers. It is comfortable, has useful features like slipper clutch, has better power than FZ25, has good Value for Money.

[Boringrider]

Would suggest you to wait for Yamaha MT-03 if you are interested as they have recently showcased it and launch seems highly probable although I am not sure if it will be priced in the budget you have set.

I am a bit surprised you are not considering the new RE Classic 350 as it's one of the best in the business for comfort and relaxed driving. Should take decent care of you on the highways also. Suspension is also great, especially those springs under the seat. They do make a noticeable difference.

But if you really want to max out in the comfort and suspension game, why don't you look at ADV's. Beware though, once you get used to one, nothing will ever match that experience ever again.

[AulusGabinius]

Assuming your budget is 2.5L plus or minus a few, I'd suggest you try the following:

1. Honda CB350RS - great driveability and ergonomics, and it's barely retro, the whole package screams modern performance.
2. RE Hunter - also great to drive, beautiful low range punch like the Classic, and a lot cheaper. The round headlight is about all that feels retro on this one.
3. Dominar or Pulsar 250 - depends on which ride is better for you, but the Dominar is slightly more powerful.
3. Xpulse 200 4V - a blast to drive for sure, but not a hugely powerful bike.
4. You should probably try the KTM 250 and 200 Dukes, good fun, and a sight more powerful and lighter than the Pulsar N250.
5. Finally, a do-it-all bike - the RE Scram 411, but this may be outside the price range depending on the variant.

I would say all of these are beginner friendly but fun bikes, and depending on your budget and likes, go for the one that puts a smile on your face and lifts your heart! For reliability and ergonomics, my pick would be the CB350RS, but if it's too expensive, the Pulsar N250 or the Hunter and excellent, but the Hunter puts a bigger smile on most faces than the Pulsar. I personally loved the Scram, and it does fit all of your criteria. However, it might not be the greatest bike for a beginner.

Cheers, and happy riding!

[Zanskar]

If city riding is going to be your mainstay and carving your way out of traffic is what you are going to be doing most of the time than nothing beats the handling of the KTM’s. I would suggest that you don’t buy any bike without test riding the KTM’s.
It might have a stiff suspension but that helps in better handling and as for pot holes or speed breakers just stand on the foot pegs.

[BatmanTDK]

Hey there!

First of all welcome to team-bhp.

As a fellow 21 time earth around sun revolver & a current Apache RTR owner, I would suggest for your use case of mostly city only, blindly go for the RTR 200.

It's lighter than everything on your list, is very flickable, agile & a hoot to ride in the city; extremely good handler.

Plus point if you are into that sort of thing, is that it returns around ~40kmpl give or take in city riding conditions.

Happy motoring/riding!

[tc89]

Hi There, Please also test ride the VStorm 250, it's practically the Gixxer with better ergos

[OffPoynt]

As another 21 time earth around sun revolver, and a current RTR 200 (2022) owner, the RTR is pretty unbeatable for a city bike usage. It is pretty light, comes loaded to the ears with features and is the smoothest bike in this segment. GTT helps you crawl through traffic (it is quite a helpful feature, and it has the good side effect of making the clutch release at low speeds a child's play).

For the times when you let your juvenile side out, the addictive exhaust note and the brisk acceleration will satisfy. Suspension is on the stiffer side but hey, this does come with preload adjustability on both ends! You can get it adjusted during delivery itself. And bonus points for the Remora radial tyres, which cost 5.8k a set and are very decent for cornering.

Highways are a mixed bag for this bike. While it is incredibly butter smooth even at 80kmph, it does feel desperate for another gear. The gearing of this bike is very short, for those quick acceleration bursts. It is not that well designed for a touring purpose, i feel, but it does feel incredible if you're doing tight technical roads, like the Ghat sections or hills (rev up, shift gear and bam, you're right in the meat of the powerband, and repeat). This can be remedied easily by fitting the FZ25's chain and sprocket kit, which make the gears longer and reduce the rpm for a given speed at a given gear, allowing touring to be easier. This is something I've planned to do. (For context, at 5th gear, 100kmph comes up at 7k rpm).

The front brakes also don't feel that good, even though they have a decent stopping power. I've changed to Liqui Moly's DoT 5.1 brake fluid along with Vesrah ceramic brake pads (for those that need it, SD250/2 is the part number) and the brake feedback is miles better, although it does need some bleeding done (I'm an amateur at these things, so I'll get it done at an FNG later).

I've also changed the engine oil to Liqui Moly's Street Race 10w40. It's even better now (more urgency through the gears and miles better than the stock oil in hot ambient temperature).

[1eighty]

Honestly, for your first bike, a little goes a long way, but that being said, I would recommend the Honda CB300F. Of all the bikes in your list plus the Honda, nothing is as smooth or refined as the CB300F, and there's power as well, just you need to be confident to rev it to get the power out. Like most Hondas, it is a doddle to ride, and feels as friendly as a CB Hornet 160R at slow speeds. Sporting a 6th gear, it is quite long legged on the highway too, and overall fit and finish and build quality is much better than even the Hornet 2.0.

[ShattereDarknes]

Note from Support: Quotes trimmed, typos fixed. Please quote only relevant sections of posts. Also, please proof read before posting. Thanks!

Originally Posted by ajay0612

Pulsar N250 is the best for you at the moment.

Will test ride it, but to be honest, I'm not too keen on Bajaj. I've heard some pretty bad stuff about their service

Originally Posted by Boringrider

I am a bit surprised you are not considering the new RE Classic 350 as it's one of the best in the business for comfort and relaxed driving. Should take decent care of you on the highways also.

The REs never appealed to me. I'm not into retro bikes at all, I'm looking for a peppy city motorcycle that's fun. Also the REs are really heavy, and that's a huge downside for me, being a new rider and all. Coming to the ADVs, they sure do seem to be good for Bangalore's roads, if you can still call them roads. But the XPulse feels more practical than fun, and the rest are quite expensive. Still, I was planning to test drive the V-Storm, so I'll let you know how that goes!

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

Assuming your budget is 2.5L plus or minus a few, I'd suggest you try the following:

1. Honda CB350 - I did test drive this one and it really put me in this mood to relax, and just enjoy the scenery while I drive. And that really felt good. I don't really have any solid reason for not considering this, but you buy a motorcycle that feels right for you, and this one felt like I'm about half a decade too early for it. As a first bike, I want something peppy, fun to drive, sporty and light. Also the price hike was a big dealbreaker. It's 2.86 on road in Bangalore :/. Honestly if I did buy this, I'd be very happy with it. But it just felt a bit mature for me, and I don't want to grow up just yet
2. RE Hunter - I test drove this and it just didn't connect with me. Also the suspension was quite firm, and the power delivery just didn't connect with me I guess. Plus not a big fan of a hard clutch either
3. I'm not into the Dominar as it's more of a cruiser/long distance kinda bike. The N250 though, I'll test drive it soon. But not too keen on Bajaj as I mentioned above.
4. KTMs - I really did consider them. I will think about test driving them, but the Gixxer 250 feels like a really good middle point. It gives me a lot of what the KTMs have to offer, while being cheaper to buy and maintain. So I'm really considering the Gixxer.
5. Scram 411 - Never considered this bike. Will need to look into it, and see if it satisfies my requirements. But it doesn't fell worth that price for my use case atleast.

Originally Posted by Zanskar

If city riding is going to be your mainstay and carving your way out of traffic is what you are going to be doing most of the time than nothing beats the handling of the KTM’s. I would suggest that you don’t buy any bike without test riding the KTM’s.

Yep will test drive the KTMs. But the Gixxer gets me most of the goodies of the KTM while being cheaper and more economical. So I'll test drive that as well. I can afford the D200, but the D250 feels too expensive. Also are the KTMs beginner friendly? To be honest I'm not really into conquering corners or aggressive riding. Filtering through traffic, yes but I don't think I need a KTMs handling to be able to do that.

Originally Posted by BatmanTDK

As a fellow 21 time earth around sun revolver & a current Apache RTR owner, I would suggest for your use case of mostly city only, blindly go for the RTR 200.

Hey, nice to see another 21 earther . Yep I'm strongly considering the RTR 200. I won't be going on highways mostly, and for the occasional drive to nearby locations, the apache seems to pack enough of a punch. And I like the looks, the bassy sound and the features. Will test drive this once more, or rent it and check it out.

Originally Posted by tc89

Hi There, Please also test ride the VStorm 250, it's practically the Gixxer with better ergos

Originally Posted by OffPoynt

As another 21 time earth around sun revolver, and a current RTR 200 (2022) owner, the RTR is pretty unbeatable for a city bike usage. It is pretty light, comes loaded to the ears with features and is the smoothest bike in this segment. GTT helps you crawl through traffic (it is quite a helpful feature, and it has the good side effect of making the clutch release at low speeds a child's play).

Hey, another 21 earther! There's dozens of us here. And another recommendation for the RTR. Thanks for the detailed reply. You can fit an FZ's chain into an RTR? I'm new to the world of motorcycling so it feels weird to see these modifications haha. But yes, I'll TD the RTR once more. I loved the engine.

Originally Posted by 1eighty

Honestly, for your first bike, a little goes a long way, but that being said, I would recommend the Honda CB300F.

I did consider the CB300F, but I didn't like a few things about it. First is the hard suspension. The bikes I've listed have stiff suspensions as well, but I've never seen reviewers complain this much about how stiff the suspension felt. But I can overlook this. Another factor is the mileage, being 300 cc and all. But yes, if Honda still has their discount, I will test drive this as well. It just felt excessive for what I need. This feels like a machine built for the highways and for cornering. Also I've heard that there are vibrations on it at certain RPMs, which is strange for a Honda.

[Passatman]

Hi ShattereDarknes, As I scroll through your want list , they seem to be around Comfort, Ease of riding, owning and maintaining. Plus the ability to tour on occasion, mandates a 6th cog. And yes, no Retro styling.
Go check out the Gixxer SF 250 and it would tick almost all your boxes. It's light weight & flickable to ride in city traffic and wallet friendly with its 38- 40 km mileage.
Yes, it does not offer TC, Slipper clutch etc, but it's not a powerloaded monster to require these.
I own one and i have had no vibrations to write about, only good vibes with my bike. ASC for ever auto brand ( barring Mahindras in my experience) will put a Shylock to shame, and it's no different @ Suzuki too.

[OffPoynt]

@ShattereDarknes
Another of my request is to take longer test rides and ride in varying scenarios. For this, a well-maintained friends/relative's bike is best, as most of the time showroom test bikes would be running semi-synth / mineral oil (the oil used during break-in period), and the engine wouldn't have been broken in.

As for the features, I've not had the chance to use the lap timer. I should, though. I live close to the Chamundi Hills and can use it to see how much time an average ascent or descent would take. As for the Bluetooth, the connectivity is good once you've taken care of the battery optimisation options for the TVS app (basically disable all the battery optimisation and let the app run in background). I use an intercom device on my helmet to recieve calls, so knowing the name of the caller on the bike console is actually very helpful. Ride stats are helpful too, but not that indepth. Lean angle, atleast in my case is completely useless (the app told me I've done -6° for a 1 hour ride, what?). The app also maintains a record of the fastest speed you've ever hit on the bike, and it persists even after you reinstall the app (data is linked to your account). The rides that you've recorded also persist as that is also linked to your account. TVS apparently is bringing out a new version of the app, and we've also got the new TVS SmartXConnect intercoms. I've been eyeing them, and really hope that TVS can tie up some features of the intercom with the bike.
(Psst: for whatever reason, the RTR has the ability to display speed in miles per hour - mph. Why? No one knows. The bike is not sold in any market that uses mph majorly, AFAIK).

Regarding the RTR, if you do decide to go for it, the service centers for TVS vary in the quality of their service (i mean, most brands' SVCs do) and you will need to zero in on an SVC who does good work and more importantly, listens to you. By far the major niggle I've had with my bike is the tappet noise (at this point, i don't know if it is the tappets or something else) and have changed the SVC to try and get it fixed. (Obvious tip here being, not every bike runs into issue).

Think well, go for the bike that ticks all the boxes AND tugs at your heart.

[ProLearner]

You can check out the TVS Ronin. Forum members have posted mostly positive experience for the bike. It has dual channel ABS, USD forks, Slipper Clutch and a relaxed riding position. Since you liked the RTR200, do check the Ronin too. Even in my college, I saw a couple of Ronins, and the guys are quite happy with it.

A rather surprising option, but you could consider the relaunched pulsar 220f. It has sold is very large numbers, so service won't be a problem. If you are ok with the lack of dual ABS. The recent post on the forum about the sales numbers also show the credibility of the bike, which sold over 5k units in the month just after re-launching.

If you like the looks, the xPulse 200T verision can be considered. It has alloy wheels, and the similar 4v engine as the xPulse. Hero service and parts are reasonably priced.

Dominar 250 also falls around your budget. It is heavy, but ticks most of the boxes.

The Gixxer 250s have a vibration issue, related to the some balancer in the engine. It is discussed on the forum. The Bajaj 250s also seem to have issues, and Bajaj hasn't even published the sales numbers.

[Draunzer21]

I have Apache rtr 160 2009 model and it has never given me any issues. I have maintained it pretty well and still use it for city rides. TVS bikes are good when it comes to city or highway rides.

My cousin owns Apache 200 and he has also never faced any issue whatsoever. The only time he complained about it was his battery had drained and there was no kick to start.

Pillion seat is not so comfortable on Apache 200.
You can consider pulsar as well.

[ShattereDarknes]

Note from Support: Quotes trimmed, typos fixed. Please quote only relevant sections of posts. Also, please proof read before posting. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Passatman

Hi ShattereDarknes, As I scroll through your want list , they seem to be around Comfort, Ease of riding, owning and maintaining. Plus the ability to tour on occasion, mandates a 6th cog. And yes, no Retro styling.

Well you're almost spot on, but I'm not looking for a bike mainly to commute. So I'd sacrifice some comfort for the fun factor. Regarding the SF 250, I'm not really into fared motorcycles. What advantage does an SF have over the naked gixxer? Also one of my friends says Suzuki's QC is pretty bad. This comes from him owning a Gixxer 150 that he bought in 2019. What are your thoughts on this?

Originally Posted by OffPoynt

Regarding the RTR, if you do decide to go for it, the service centers for TVS vary in the quality of their service (i mean, most brands' SVCs do) and you will need to zero in on an SVC who does good work and more importantly, listens to you. By far the major niggle I've had with my bike is the tappet noise (at this point, i don't know if it is the tappets or something else) and have changed the SVC to try and get it fixed. (Obvious tip here being, not every bike runs into issue).

Thanks for the detailed reply. The bluetooth features, although not any reason to choose the RTR over the others, seem to be pretty cool. Also I've rented out an RTR for tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.

Originally Posted by ProLearner

The Gixxer 250s have a vibration issue, related to the some balancer in the engine. It is discussed on the forum. The Bajaj 250s also seem to have issues, and Bajaj hasn't even published the sales numbers.

I did test drive a TVS Ronin twice. The bike is very smooth and relaxed, and that exhaust note is just amazing. I wouldn't mind buying it, but I just didn't connect with the design or the feel much. The bike felt a bit mature. I'm mainly looking at street fighters because of the lightness, and the slight aggression. My next bike might be something like a Ronin or CB350. But I might not be able to go for an edgy street fighter when I'm older . Also the power delivery and the riding stance didn't feel as exciting.

Originally Posted by Draunzer21

Pillion seat is not so comfortable on Apache 200.

That's good to know. No kick start is kind of scary though. Well, pillion is not a priority if the bike is fun, as long as it's atleast useable in the city.