[Sman999]

It looks like the rear wheel is a 17" and front is 18". Am i wrong here?

Why cant manufacturers just stick with 17" wheels? For the B roads with alloys i guess 17" rims will do the job. The smaller rims deliver better handling and tyre choices are only available for 17" in India.

[thefastelephant]

Having spent some time in the two wheeler industry with an OEM, in my own personal understanding, the only way a 2-wheeler product will excel amongst its competitors here in India is if it checks the following boxes:

- Priced lower than competitor (not even at par, make the product feel & look twice as expensive and surprise the market with pricing)
- Target audience clarity (age group and lifestyle, not for all mentality works great hence the wider product portfolio which caters to youngsters,middle aged and seniors)
- Brand image (Herd Commuter or Elite Road Presence)
- Dealer network and affordability of most components on the motorcycle

Also, retro-marketing the product with social media or creative films that connect with the target audience can sustain traction of sales in the long run.

Excessive marketing doesn't help. If a product is crap, no amount of marketing and offers will save it.

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by thefastelephant

Having spent some time in the two wheeler industry with an OEM, in my own personal understanding, the only way a 2-wheeler product will excel amongst its competitors here in India is if it checks the following boxes:

- Priced lower than competitor (not even at par, make the product feel & look twice as expensive and surprise the market with pricing)
- Target audience clarity (age group and lifestyle, not for all mentality works great hence the wider product portfolio which caters to youngsters,middle aged and seniors)
- Brand image (Herd Commuter or Elite Road Presence)
- Dealer network and affordability of most components on the motorcycle

Also, retro-marketing the product with social media or creative films that connect with the target audience can sustain traction of sales in the long run.

Excessive marketing doesn't help. If a product is crap, no amount of marketing and offers will save it.

Triumph's goal of making such a bike is to allow it to sell entry level bikes globally in the same vein as KTM tasking Bajaj to make the smaller capacity Dukes and RC bikes or BMW tasking TVS to make the 310cc bikes. These bikes are sold in India but the objective was to sell them all over the world not just in India.

Since these will be Triumph branded bikes and sold at Triumph dealers only there is no chance it will sell well in India given Triumphs very limited presence.

[subincb]

Originally Posted by thefastelephant

Having spent some time in the two wheeler industry with an OEM, in my own personal understanding, the only way a 2-wheeler product will excel amongst its competitors here in India is if it checks the following boxes:

- Priced lower than competitor (not even at par, make the product feel & look twice as expensive and surprise the market with pricing)
- Target audience clarity (age group and lifestyle, not for all mentality works great hence the wider product portfolio which caters to youngsters,middle aged and seniors)
- Brand image (Herd Commuter or Elite Road Presence)
- Dealer network and affordability of most components on the motorcycle

Also, retro-marketing the product with social media or creative films that connect with the target audience can sustain traction of sales in the long run.

Excessive marketing doesn't help. If a product is crap, no amount of marketing and offers will save it.

RE was making crappy motorcycles for ages and now they started getting good ones but sells like hot cakes even before. Yezdi in their first comeback itself made decently good if not better motorcycles in the first try itself but sales is lesser. Even dominar is priced right and it's sales is not comparable with RE.

I feel it's only the brand image which matters to most.

[thefastelephant]

Originally Posted by subincb

RE was making crappy motorcycles for ages and now they started getting good ones but sells like hot cakes even before. Yezdi in their first comeback itself made decently good if not better motorcycles in the first try itself but sales is lesser. Even dominar is priced right and it's sales is not comparable with RE.

I feel it's only the brand image which matters to most.

RE was making motorcycles for ages, the technological advancement happened at quite a later stage. Crappy or not, only owners can agree to IMO. A RE owner knows the shortfalls of his/her motorcycle but the experience it gives every time you ride it is greater than the "crappy" context. Hence, the sales speak for the themselves.

Yezdi, Jawa, Honda, Kawasaki etc. and many other brands to come will obviously make technologically sound bikes in their first go. No doubt. However, its worth wondering why they can't seem to put a dent in the share RE holds in the market.

Most brands miss out on one important aspect of a motorcycle. It is "CHARACTER". For the target audience, there are many factors they consider but RE will top most of their check boxes besides the 'Product' no matter how great it is engineered to be.

Given the trajectory the GT 535 onwards launched models have (Himalayan, Twins, J-Series) in terms of technology and refinement at the price point they are available at, its almost a bargain time and again for most prospective buyers.

[subincb]

You can't attribute sales to RE quality. Generally world over its first ones to come, have more brand image and therefore more sales. Example being Maruti sells more than any other vehicle here. For long time there were only few 350 and that made RE the king. And I too had an old bullet standard long back and liked it only for its sound. When I left India and could afford better bikes only then did realise how bad the RE were.

Till a month back was using a 2001 ktm and 2004 yamaha mx's, quiet used to jumping off small hillocks. No himalayan rider can do what those bikes can do with confidence. All we took for a 2000km ride on a 2005 yamaha and 2008 Honda was puncture kit and gas cans on cities without any bike mechanics. Pretty sure cannot trust even 10 year old RE to do that. One of the bloggers came to our city in a new RE last year and he had almost half of the bike as spares and many parts replaced on the way. These are not very usual among other manufacturers.

The quality Honda Yamaha Kawasaki Triumph etc give is way beyond RE. Right now it's seen only on costlier bikes but soon it will start coming down to smaller cc. Cb350 is an example and soon triumph, kawasakis and many more will start giving us quality builds at that price point. Even Hero TVS and Bajaj would give us good and better >350s in near future but India would sell more RE. Its the first logic, they are kindof oldest here and has brand image.

[thefastelephant]

Just thought I'd put this out there. The Himalayan was never marketed to do Enduro (Jumping and Trials style riding). Its an Adventure touring bike with a mix road and offroad riding. Like any Adventure Motorcycle designed as a balance of Road and Offroad, Himalayan was more road focused with hardware to handle obstacles. Having clocked 70K kms on the Odo I still stand by how abuse friendly and reliable my Himi has turned up. And a few other fellow riders who ride her to work Monday to Friday and send her on weekends on trails. Confidence or not really boils down to the rider.

For the given designed purpose it fares well. My BS3 Himalayan had to go through a couple frame changes and I wouldn't really complain cos' I didn't have to pay a dime for them and I am at fault to make the bike do things its not meant to. (Jumping)

Not only the Himalayan, even bigger globe trotter icons have reliability issues if abused.

[Somil07]

I think the product should be Indian road friendly at the end of the day. People say adventure motorcycles only make sense if the usage is mostly in off-road conditions. Looking at the roads of our typical big metropolitan cities, you just don't need to go anywhere looking for offroad trails, it's all right here in our usual commutes. Potholes, manhole pits, misaligned road joints, battered speed breakers, broken road edges and all other nuisance call for some long travel and cushiony suspension setup just like what Himalayan and Xpulse offer. Other than that low end torque is unnegotiable, atleast for me. Most of us won't be revving the heck out of our motorcycles all the time so what's the point of having all the power and torque in high revs? To sum it up, I would like to see more products similar to Himalayan than KTM.

[TusharK]

Bajaj-Triumph bike for India spied; looks production ready

As you may be aware, Bajaj and Triumph have partnered to develop an entry-level premium motorcycle for India. While it still doesn’t have a launch date yet, the latest spy shots reveal a more production-ready bike.



The Bajaj-Triumph roadster was recently spotted testing around Pune. The bike was equipped with a few India-specific bits, including a saree guard and a front number plate holder. The spy image also reveals an upside-down front fork, a rear mono-shock, a single upswept exhaust and a single-piece seat with a rear grab handle.

The upcoming Bajaj-Triumph motorcycle is rumoured to be powered by a liquid-cooled 350-400cc engine producing around 35 BHP. The bike will come with disc brakes at both ends and is likely to feature dual-channel ABS.

The new roadster will take on the like of the KTM 390 Duke, BMW G 310 R and Honda CB300R in the Indian market.

Source: Zigwheels

Link to Team-BHP News

[nishsingh]

Looks quite average and nondescript. It could easily pass off as one of the several million bikes in India.

I wonder why someone would even notice this bike and bother to take a picture of it.

I am inclined to think this is a 'planted' spy pic.

[ajay0612]

In an interview with CNBC-TV18, Rajiv Bajaj has announced the launch date of the first range of Bajaj-Triumph motorcycles. The launch will take place on Tuesday 27th June, 2023 in London. Yes, it will be a global launch event, which will be handled by Triumph.

Source: https://twitter.com/CNBCTV18News/sta...8zUYMPQKA&s=19

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by subincb

You can't attribute sales to RE quality. Generally world over its first ones to come, have more brand image and therefore more sales. Example being Maruti sells more than any other vehicle here. For long time there were only few 350 and that made RE the king. And I too had an old bullet standard long back and liked it only for its sound. When I left India and could afford better bikes only then did realise how bad the RE were.

Till a month back was using a 2001 ktm and 2004 yamaha mx's, quiet used to jumping off small hillocks. No himalayan rider can do what those bikes can do with confidence. All we took for a 2000km ride on a 2005 yamaha and 2008 Honda was puncture kit and gas cans on cities without any bike mechanics. Pretty sure cannot trust even 10 year old RE to do that. One of the bloggers came to our city in a new RE last year and he had almost half of the bike as spares and many parts replaced on the way. These are not very usual among other manufacturers.

The quality Honda Yamaha Kawasaki Triumph etc give is way beyond RE. Right now it's seen only on costlier bikes but soon it will start coming down to smaller cc. Cb350 is an example and soon triumph, kawasakis and many more will start giving us quality builds at that price point. Even Hero TVS and Bajaj would give us good and better >350s in near future but India would sell more RE. Its the first logic, they are kindof oldest here and has brand image.

Originally Posted by thefastelephant

Just thought I'd put this out there. The Himalayan was never marketed to do Enduro (Jumping and Trials style riding). Its an Adventure touring bike with a mix road and offroad riding. Like any Adventure Motorcycle designed as a balance of Road and Offroad, Himalayan was more road focused with hardware to handle obstacles. Having clocked 70K kms on the Odo I still stand by how abuse friendly and reliable my Himi has turned up. And a few other fellow riders who ride her to work Monday to Friday and send her on weekends on trails. Confidence or not really boils down to the rider.

For the given designed purpose it fares well. My BS3 Himalayan had to go through a couple frame changes and I wouldn't really complain cos' I didn't have to pay a dime for them and I am at fault to make the bike do things its not meant to. (Jumping)

Not only the Himalayan, even bigger globe trotter icons have reliability issues if abused.

Two changes of frame speaks a lot about the QC practices at RE. And I suspect yours is not an isolated incident; the internet is full of examples of the frames of Himalayan and even the 650 twins breaking off with alarming regularity, not to speak of other mechanical gremlins that keep cropping up every now and then.

There is something to be said that in the rural areas the incredulously overloaded Bajaj Boxers, TVS Radeons, CT 100s and even the humble TVS XLs 100 fare much better. It is commonplace to overload them with milk cans, multiple sacks of produce, agriculture implements and three (& sometimes more) passengers, and despite all this they go about doing what they are meant to do, traversing often on broken rural roads some of which could pass for off road trails, without so much as a breakdown. And these are the "low tech" commuter bikes of 100-110 CC displacement. How hard is it to take a leaf out of this and ensure quality components and consistent QC for RE?

Cheers !

[thefastelephant]

Originally Posted by Ironhide

Two changes of frame speaks a lot about the QC practices at RE. And I suspect yours is not an isolated incident; the internet is full of examples of the frames of Himalayan and even the 650 twins breaking off with alarming regularity, not to speak of other mechanical gremlins that keep cropping up every now and then.

There is something to be said that in the rural areas the incredulously overloaded Bajaj Boxers, TVS Radeons, CT 100s and even the humble TVS XLs 100 fare much better. It is commonplace to overload them with milk cans, multiple sacks of produce, agriculture implements and three (& sometimes more) passengers, and despite all this they go about doing what they are meant to do, traversing often on broken rural roads some of which could pass for off road trails, without so much as a breakdown. And these are the "low tech" commuter bikes of 100-110 CC displacement. How hard is it to take a leaf out of this and ensure quality components and consistent QC for RE?

Cheers !

Coming to the QC of RE, the new Himalayan frame visually and functionally is streets ahead of the 1st gen.

Apparently now all frames are robotic-welded and I can attest to how durable the new frame is. Its sensitive and flexes just as much as needed u linke the older ones.

Speaking of the examples like Bajaj Boxers, Radeons, TVS XL100s etc. I am sure it needs no brains to understand that those bikes don't go over potholes and speed breakers upwards of 60 km/hr and still make you feel like you can push harder so the G-forces these motorcycles "ever" get exposed to aren't really even in the ball park.

Taking a leaf out of quality control, I have been very closely owning, riding, maintaining and also have had a stint with the brand professionally and can vouch for how far the brand has come with upping its quality game.

I say this after reflecting on my 2016 GT 535 and the new J-Platform classic.

Its almost as if the bikes come from two different manufacturers unless you look at that branding.

So again, I am just voicing first hand experiences.

P.S.: Himalayan frame breaks at the headstock are "ALWAYS" linked to incorrect landing off a jump (research)

And its a whole pandora's box unless you've done basic offraod training with RE at their event's like Unroad or Himalayan Expedition etc. It totally helps you understand how much is there to be learnt about bikes besides the riding skills.

[ICE_Swift]

Pricing is key here and so is good After Sales Service and Proper Advertising.

If they price it Competitively like Honda they might get enough sales to keep the Bikes and develop more on the same platform.

However if Triumph ASS continues as it is... even though Bajaj is taking over let's face it. It's not like they're miraculously going to become decent at ASS overnight and most of the service personnel will be retained. It's going to cause a PR nightmare of the same or greater level the Original Himalayan Launch Had.

Mod note: Avoid .... while posting.

[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by thefastelephant

Just thought I'd put this out there. The Himalayan was never marketed to do Enduro (Jumping and Trials style riding). Its an Adventure touring bike with a mix road and offroad riding. Like any Adventure Motorcycle designed as a balance of Road and Offroad, Himalayan was more road focused with hardware to handle obstacles. Having clocked 70K kms on the Odo I still stand by how abuse friendly and reliable my Himi has turned up. And a few other fellow riders who ride her to work Monday to Friday and send her on weekends on trails. Confidence or not really boils down to the rider.

For the given designed purpose it fares well. My BS3 Himalayan had to go through a couple frame changes and I wouldn't really complain cos' I didn't have to pay a dime for them and I am at fault to make the bike do things its not meant to. (Jumping)

Not only the Himalayan, even bigger globe trotter icons have reliability issues if abused.

Originally Posted by thefastelephant

Coming to the QC of RE, the new Himalayan frame visually and functionally is streets ahead of the 1st gen.

Apparently now all frames are robotic-welded and I can attest to how durable the new frame is. Its sensitive and flexes just as much as needed u linke the older ones.

Speaking of the examples like Bajaj Boxers, Radeons, TVS XL100s etc. I am sure it needs no brains to understand that those bikes don't go over potholes and speed breakers upwards of 60 km/hr and still make you feel like you can push harder so the G-forces these motorcycles "ever" get exposed to aren't really even in the ball park.

Taking a leaf out of quality control, I have been very closely owning, riding, maintaining and also have had a stint with the brand professionally and can vouch for how far the brand has come with upping its quality game.

I say this after reflecting on my 2016 GT 535 and the new J-Platform classic.

Its almost as if the bikes come from two different manufacturers unless you look at that branding.

So again, I am just voicing first hand experiences.

P.S.: Himalayan frame breaks at the headstock are "ALWAYS" linked to incorrect landing off a jump (research)

And its a whole pandora's box unless you've done basic offraod training with RE at their event's like Unroad or Himalayan Expedition etc. It totally helps you understand how much is there to be learnt about bikes besides the riding skills.

I seem to be getting it wrong; on the one hand you say that the Himalayan is not meant to be doing things it initially advertised about (refer the very first videos that surface, including one that presumably was sponsored by RE themselves of CS Santosh putting the bike through its paces, and breaking the footpeg in the process) like "jumping" that you subjected your bike to, and on the other hand you say that the humble commuters aren't doing what Himalayan is capable of doing (i.e. hitting potholes at 60 kmph - quite akin to jumping, only more brutal, one would think). Well, the fact remains that there have been a host of QC issues with the Himalayan, and the weight, all of it, only adds in to the none too impressive power to weight ratio - something that the riders are hoping will be addressed in the bike's 450cc iteration. Just as a reminder, on the QC aspect again, please search "Royal Enfield Chassis Broken" on the internet and you'll be surprised by the number of videos that surface. And this is for not only RE Standard, or Classic , them being rather portly bikes but also Himalayan and even an example of Interceptor 650. The QC at RE might have improved from what it once was, but there's still a l-o-n-g way to go for RE before they can match the Japanese levels of reliability, material quality, processes or QC.

This is something that Bajaj-Triumph offering should address right at the outset, and make sure that their bike is niggle free, uses quality components, is reliable and designed well. You'd agree with me that 'character' of a bike holds little appeal when you're tired, wet, miserable and cold with a broken down bike in the back of beyond in Zanskar or Arunachal.

(PS : Here's another recent post (Light Vs Heavier motorcycles for mountain touring) on the subject that is on similar lines and echoes what I said )

Cheers !