[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by iron.head

Confused between this 450 and the 2024 390 Duke.

...

An analogy to this trying to decide between buying running shoes and trekking shoes.

If you only expect to go walking and wearing them casually, buy whichever makes you feel better or is more appealing.

But if you really intend to run regularly or go trekking regularly, buy the shoes that are made for that situation.

Keep in mind that the Himalayan is 100% new and it will surely have plenty of teething niggles.

The Duke 390 is more an evolution of the previous engine so the current teething issues should be solved soon.

I'm in the same situation and I'd love to have both bikes but good sense must prevail and I must choose one.

[iron.head]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

An analogy to this trying to decide between buying running shoes and trekking shoes.

I'm in the same situation and I'd love to have both bikes but good sense must prevail and I must choose one.

Happy to find a mate in a similar situation!

I have mentioned this previously as well and my apologies for the broken record but I find it imperative to say this again: weight makes one hell of a difference!

To add to this, I fortunately own the legendary Suzuki DR650 (a 2019), a 2017 GSX-R600 (never ever selling these two) and used to own a 2018 690 Duke (built to cost, low quality motorcycle IMHO, cheap suspension) and have hence experienced riding a naked, a supersport, and an ADV/Dual Sport in the city/off-road/track.

As a daily driver, the most fun I have had is on my GSX-R (next gen RC390 maybe!) but between the 690 Duke (read: a naked motorcycle) and the DR650, I would choose the DR hands down any day of the year!

However, the DR is much lighter than the Himalayan 650! For city use, an RC390 doesn't make much sense anyway and if the Himalayan can somehow shed a few kilos (10-15 might I say) it will almost be a no brainer!

To save weight here in the west, the first thing a lot of riders take off is the catalytic converter and second comes the lithium ion battery. Not sure of the possibilities with the Himalayan but if at all I am inclined to cut off the CC and put a straight pipe there!

PS: a nice video on the engine details of the Himalayan 450:

https://youtu.be/11b0In2v6b8?si=DX72Bt3XIGLggtHh

and the lead engine designer is this gentleman:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin...um=android_app

Edit: watching a few videos of the Himalayan I think I'm going to buy the Himalayan on day1 and get on a ride to the same place!

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by iron.head

If the Himalayan can somehow shed a few kilos (10-15 might I say) it will almost be a no brainer!

On the topic of shedding weight, the old Himalayan is 199 kgs and the Scram 411 is 185, so if we're going to get a Scram 450, that could very well be the case. I took a rental Scram on a morning ride, and other than the lack of highway ability, I would have bought one there and then. The new Himalayan is 196, so I think I could make a guess as to the weight reduction at the moment:

1. Those big tank guards could easily be 3 kilos in total - 193.
2. The whole headstock would go as well for a lighter, fork-mounted setup, along with a smaller or no windshield - 191 kgs or so.
3. Smaller front wheel - 188 kgs, perhaps?
4. Non-adjustable seat - 187 kgs?
5. Non-Showa suspension with less travel, 190 on the rear rather than 200 - Could it go down to 185?

Add to that not having a beak and maybe no top case mount, I think 185 could definitely be achieved.

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by iron.head

Confused between this 450 and the 2024 390 Duke.

Can the two actually be compared?

Usually with REs the third or fourth year in the production of a model usually has lesser niggles.

I do not know from where this inference has been drawn Sir. After the 411 debacle, RE seems to have got their act together and quality is something, not many people have complained of since the 650 twins were launched.

Kerb weight is too high (196kg). Will not be as fun to ride as any of the 390s.

My humble request is at least test ride a bike to understand it's characteristics, pros and cons. Don't just go by the specifications and make opinions. Not a single reviewer till now has complained of the 450 being lousy or difficult to handle because of weight.

Originally Posted by AulusGabinius

On the topic of shedding weight, the old Himalayan is 199 kgs and the Scram 411 is 185, so if we're going to get a Scram 450,
The new Himalayan is 196, I think 185 could definitely be achieved.

The OG Himalayan 411 to Scram 411 was a 14 kgs reduction. Why not similar discount in case of 450s? Plus, the Scram 450 (or whatever it is christened subsequently) mules have been spotted with alloy wheels. That will also save on some weight.

As an owner, we may do two small things to further reduce actual weight.
Fill the tank only upto 15 litres, mark it and make it a point to repeat same every time. Saves good 2 kilos.
Remove the saree guard and save another 1.5 to 2 kgs.
So, with 14 kgs reduced at manufacturer's end and 4 kgs at the user end, the Scram 450 may be expected to weigh (or made to weigh) around 178 kgs.

That makes it 39.47 BHP hauling just 178 kgs.

Taking the imagination a little further:
GKU posted a power to weight ratio chart the other day. As per that comparison, with a BHP/kg ratio of 0.2217 it will be at par with the Speed 400 and just behind the KTM 390s.

A pocket rocket from RE, no?

But the Scram 450, going by rumours and predictions by motoring pundits, will be launched after another 6 months. By then, all initial niggles on the 450 platform are expected to be sorted out by RE.

So, all those people who are apprehensive of joining the gang of beta testers by buying first lot of Himalayan 450, it's a win win situation for them.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

A pocket rocket from RE, no?

Agree completely, the saree guard will dump another two kilos for sure. I'm just going on a general guess here, I think if they changed the subframe it could be even lighter for sure. I think if the wheels went alloy rather than staying with the spokes (I think they've been seen being tested, looks similar to the ones you get on the 650s), it will lose even more. Add a little bit of boost to the HP with a performance air filter, a lighter exhaust, maybe a FuelX Pro, and I think we have a ridiculously amazing and capable off-roader and street bike hybrid. The current Scram is not even a little less capable than the Himalayan on the dirt as far as I know, and it will be at least as good as the Scrambler 400x since it's coming from an off-road chassis and the Sherpa.

[iron.head]

I am waiting to axe away the catalytic converter and put a lighter muffler in there to save 5-6 kilos and later a Varta lithium battery.

Decided to make a booking but later canceled and have to wait for the "Rally" edition for the tubeless rims and if there is going to be an "Adventure" edition. Only if RE would launch this soon enough, this love affair cannot wait too long to begin!

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by iron.head

I am waiting to axe away the catalytic converter and put a lighter muffler in there to save 5-6 kilos and later a Varta lithium battery.

Nice idea but just few curious thoughts

With the emission norms becoming stricter by the day, won't removal of the catcon pose a problem in obtaining the PUC certificate?

Won't alterations to the exhaust system and electrical system affect the warranty clause?

It would be prudent to be clear on those aspects before putting saw to metal, this being a new bike under warranty.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

Nice idea but just few curious thoughts

With the emission norms becoming stricter by the day, won't removal of the catcon pose a problem in obtaining the PUC certificate?

Won't alterations to the exhaust system and electrical system affect the warranty clause?

It would be prudent to be clear on those aspects before putting saw to metal, this being a new bike under warranty.

1. No. No changes to the PUC data.
2. Yes warranty stands cancelled. Warranty stands cancelled with any modification to the bike which can be identified by the manufacturer.

Resonator removal makes more sense. That is the unit right before the exhaust which weighs a ton. Not the cat con.

[iron.head]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

Nice idea but just few curious thoughts

With the emission norms becoming stricter by the day, won't removal of the catcon pose a problem in obtaining the PUC certificate?

Won't alterations to the exhaust system and electrical system affect the warranty clause?

It would be prudent to be clear on those aspects before putting saw to metal, this being a new bike under warranty.

Don't want to go off topic or get into a debate but I am totally against going to the ASC for anything at all!

Chain adjustment and a tire swap can be done at a reputable shop or a trustworthy nearby mechanic.

Other than that, the below repairs are easy to do at home and I have all the necessary tools and experience:

>> Brake fluid change
>> Engine oil change
>> Radiator flush
>> Fixing a minor leak/gasket change

I have had enough of an experience with RE ASC with my C5 that I am least interested in one of their mechanics touching my bikes. I've serviced my 22 Hayabusa at home too from the first service (here in Canada, warranty remains valid irrespective of where the motorcycle is serviced). Furthermore, my belief is worry less and ride more and if the motorcycle is fine up until first 2000-3000 kms then the likelihood that something will go wrong is severly reduced.

I also believe that the savings from the ASC expenses over 2-3 years will cover me for any minor expenses that the warranty would have covered. Even a full harness swap on these simple motorcycles is not too complicated. The culture here in NA is to do most of the work in the home garage and I want to be able to replicate the same in India!

[aston_martyr]

Received a call from RE inviting for the launch of H450 on Friday 7pm. Display bikes would be available. TR would start from next week.

[iron.head]

Been trying to do a bit of research on the Tubeless wheels and without mentioning the sources here are some of the findings:

>> The Tubeless wheels for the Himalayan 450 are likely going to be imported and not manufactured in India at this time.

>> Tubeless wheels are highly patent protected and for this reason come with a significant premium.

>> Some legendary ADV/Dual Sport motorcycles in the past have not come with Tubeless wheels from the factory or even as an option for the same reason. Example DR650, KLR, Tenere 700, etc.

>> On trying to look up aftermarket tubeless wheels for motorcycles the prices appear to be upwards of 70,000 INR for a set. Even with REs volume business IMHO this won't come cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295566356896

>> This is possibly also the reason why RE didn't consider the tubeless wheels option from the start. To keep the price competitive.

>> Some of these highly revered ADV/Dual Sport motorcycles do not come with a center stand and riders either install one or find hacks to lift the wheels to patch a puncture while on the middle of a trip. Yes there are riders who are able to replace/patch a tube on their own in the middle of a trip!

With all this information, my hopes with the tubeless wheels are not too high and the world has been living without them! Also, in India it's easier to get puncture repairs done so personally I might just save the money and get the least priced Himalayan 450 (given it has all the crash guards).

Also, if the tubeless wheels bring the price closer to the 390 Adv then that will be another conundrum so best to forget them for this purchase!

Cheers!

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by iron.head

With all this information, my hopes with the tubeless wheels are not too high and the world has been living without them! Also, in India it's easier to get puncture repairs done so personally I might just save the money and get the least priced Himalayan 450 (given it has all the crash guards).

Also, if the tubeless wheels bring the price closer to the 390 Adv then that will be another conundrum so best to forget them for this purchase!

Cheers!

There were days when most folks including me would ride our bullets with spare tube and all tools necessary to change the tube in case of a puncture. I have done this twice - once enroute Khardungla and once on the route towards khillad. Replaced the tube, got the punctured one fixed at the next available shop. It's not difficult esp if you are riding in a group. Can tiring for sure but hey, a puncture once in a blue.moon is OK. Imagine I have had to do it only twice in my 9yrs and some 70k+ kms of riding an Electra.

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by iron.head

On trying to look up aftermarket tubeless wheels for motorcycles the prices appear to be upwards of 70,000 INR for a set. Even with REs volume business IMHO this won't come cheap.

I think that's a bit too much to ask for the tubeless spokes, atleast in India. The max RE might ask (I'm guessing) for a pair could be a ballpark figure of 25-30k.

With all this information, my hopes with the tubeless wheels are not too high and the world has been living without them! Also, in India it's easier to get puncture repairs done.

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

There were days when most folks including me would ride our bullets with spare tube and all tools necessary to change the tube in case of a puncture. I have done this twice - once enroute Khardungla and once on the route towards khillad...a puncture once in a blue.moon is OK. Imagine I have had to do it only twice in my 9yrs and some 70k+ kms of riding an Electra.

You both are stirring up the hornet's nest again.
Having had similar experiences, I fully agree with Nilesh5417. But, recommending the Himalayan 450 without tubeless spoked is akin to sacrilege here.

[CodeEvo]

Got a call from my dealership asking for my t-shirt size and an invite to the launch tomorrow at 7 PM

[aviator1101]

Received a message from my Guwahati dealer.

Price reveal tomorrow at 7:30 PM at Motoverse, Goa.

Dealer launch on 10 December 2023.

Test ride bikes will be available from 14 December 2023.