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Old 8th December 2021, 08:40   #1
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TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

When Indian automobile enthusiasts talk about offerings from TVS Motors, their conversations usually revolve around the feature packed and sporty RTR motorcycle lineup or the exciting N Torq scooter and sometimes, the discussions even veer towards the unbreakable XL100 moped. Very rarely do you hear about the flagship Apache RR 310 and the reasons arent hard to understand.

A few years ago, TVS and BMW tied up to jointly develop a 312.2 cc platform for motorcycles. To ensure that there was no direct competition between the two partnering companies, they split the offerings based on styling and positioning. BMW got the adventure (GS310) and naked (G310R) variants, while TVS got the faired version. In my books, TVS should have got the naked variant of the 310 platform as it would have built on their successful RTR pedigree. A naked RTR 310 would have been a logical upgrade for the scores of RTR 150, 160, 180 and 200 owners. But history was scripted differently.

Why did TVS partner with BMW at all in the first place? That is something that has been discussed earlier on the forum and it is safe to say that the Hosur based company knew what they were doing. Today they are recognized globally in the motorcycling community as an emerging player, which was something that they did not have prior to their BMW partnership. If you browse through international forums, you will find a lot more mentions of TVS now, than you would have in the past.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-tvsakula310carbonfibrefairingatautoexpo2016.jpg
TVS Akula concept at the Auto Expo
(picture courtesy : Interwebs)

TVS had showcased the faired Akula concept at the Auto Expo 2016 and it generated a lot of interest from the motorcycling community. In December 2017, TVS launched the RR 310 but the initial enthusiasm in the product fizzled out and its sales numbers were subdued right from the start. When all manufacturers were targeting the upper end of the power limitation for A2 license owners, the BMW - TVS engine had only 34 PS at its disposal. This was not a fair battle but the RR 310 clawed back some points with it affordable pricing of Rs 2.05 L (ex showroom). That made it seem like the bike was good value for money as compared to its competition of the Kawasaki Ninja 300 (+5 PS), Yamaha R3 (+8 PS) and the KTM RC390 (+9.5 PS) but there was no getting away from the missing horses. For 10% more money, you could get yourself a RC 390 and that was proper paisa vasool in the Indian motorcycle market.

The RR 310's engine choice was akin to a test cricket captain bumping up a classy middle order batsman to open the innings against a visiting team that had a wide array of marauding pace bowlers. Sure, he would hold his ground and score some runs but he wasnt cut out to be a swashbuckling double centurion.

Add to it dealer apathy and lack of test ride bikes in most cities and really poor service experiences from the few owners of the RR 310, and the road to success for the top of the line offering from TVS was bound to be rocky from day one. I have tried to get a test ride of the Apache RR 310 but the local dealer was least interested in arranging a test ride for me.

Also, if you ask any owner or an enthusiast who has ridden the first gen RR 310, they will say that the bike is a fun bike but it has a vibey engine. You get only one chance to make a first impression and the vibey engine sword hangs over the TVS Apache RR 310 to this day. The word tractor engine was perhaps unfairly tagged to it and it is a legacy that has been hard for TVS to shake off.

Last edited by neil.jericho : 9th December 2021 at 09:32.
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Old 8th December 2021, 08:44   #2
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Quick Snapshot

Despite the lack of market success and the platform's inherent performance limitations, TVS has invested a lot of time and money to steadily improve the motorcycle and also to build the Apache owners community. The latest offering is the ability for owners to get a custom RR 310 through TVS's Build To Order (BTO) website. This offers customers the option of a Dynamic kit or a Race kit and even allows for race livery to be added on. With only a limited run of bikes per month being made available for the BTO platform, this entire exercise came across as being more of a marketing team's dream rather than a genuine effort to improve sales of what is a very capable bike. The forum discussion on the BTO platform can be found here (TVS Apache RR 310 BTO sold out; bookings reopen on Oct 1).

How good is the latest BS6 version from their BTO series? Thanks to an old friend, I was tossed the keys to a bike and got to ride it for half in a day in a wide variety of conditions in the hills.

Quick Snapshot

+ Fit and finish is top notch and matches that of premium imported motorbikes
+ Ride and handling is extremely confidence inspiring
+ Brilliant TFT dash implementation. Some international manufacturers can learn from TVS !
+ Fully adjustable KYB suspension at this price point
+ Attention to the small details
- Vibrations in the mid range
- No adjustable levers (the Apache RTR 200 4V gets them!)

Since this did not happen in Cochin, I do not have the luxury of putting the bike through its paces in my regular routes, nor was I able to take sufficient photographs. Hence I have tweaked my Closer Look formula but if I can get the keys to another bike for a longer period of time in Cochin, then I can do a full fledged Closer Look or a proper Review.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-edit-2.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-edit.jpg

Last edited by neil.jericho : 9th December 2021 at 09:33.
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Old 8th December 2021, 08:49   #3
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First 5 Impressions

So what are the first 5 things that struck me when I spent some time with the bike?
  • Just walking around the parked bike, you get the strong sense that this is a very well built motorcycle. The quality of the plastics, the paint job, the switchgear, the design elements all point to this being a motorcycle that is put together very nicely indeed.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-paint-large.jpg
  • Sit on the bike and you will be suprised at how comfortable the seating position actually is. Though the motorcycle looks very sporty, the riders triangle is just the opposite! Theres some black magic at play here.
  • Turn on the bike and the brilliant TFT dash impresses you immediately. There are different riding modes and each mode gets a very logical but different layout. It will take you a few minutes to get used to the vertical layout of the screen, as compared to the de facto horizontal layout that is employed by every other manufacturer.
  • On the move, the clutch is light and the riding experience is easy. TVS's mass centralization marketing material isnt hyperbole. You can feel it at work.
  • Everything comes together very well indeed. The bike has some very impressive components but as a whole, it is greater than the sum of its parts. TVS's racing pedigree is very evident in this polished motorcycle.
TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-tvs-racing-large.jpg

Last edited by neil.jericho : 8th December 2021 at 16:02.
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Old 8th December 2021, 08:51   #4
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TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : Breaking it down

- Design
The Apache RR 310 is a very handsome motorcycle. Period. The proportions are spot on and the more you look at it, you more you have to admire the genius of its design. The RR 310 has an elegant European flair to it without looking like it is a Ducati ripoff. The paint job and stickering is tastefully done as well. Park the now old generation KTM RC 390 next to it and the difference in design detailing is so stark that you will think that the Apache RR 310 is the more expensive motorcycle, by a massive margin.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-style-1-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-sticker-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-style-4-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-style-6-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-paint-1-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-style-5-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-pc051433-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-tail-large.jpg

The bike that I rode came with red wheels and if it was my own bike, I would have opted for the black wheels instead. That said, the red isnt garish and after the first 10 minutes, I didnt even notice it.

Right now you only get a Titanium Black colour (the same as this bike) or a simpler Racing Red colour that is similar to what was originally launched. I only wish that TVS was a bit more bold with their colour schemes. Perhaps the matte blue or the pearl white paint jobs from the RTR 200 4V should make their way onto the RR 310 in the near future?

However, there is a lot more to the Apache RR 310 than just superficial looks. Functional elements have been prioritized when designing and engineering the motorcycle. That ugly chain guard does a fabulous job of shielding the chain from all the slush and rain that we encountered. In our group of 5 different motorcycles from 4 different manufacturers, the Apache RR 310 had the cleanest chain at the end of a solid day's riding in the rain.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-mudguard-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-mudguard-2-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-mudguard-3-large.jpg

Those stylish mirrors that lend the bike sporty credentials? They offer a phenomenal range of view and the vibrations from the bike doesnt unsettle the view through them. These are the most functional rear view mirrors that I have ever experienced on a faired motorcycle.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-mirror-2-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-mirror-large.jpg

That sporty seat? It turns out that it offers a lot more room and comfort than what I expected it to provide. The stylish tank is also one of the most useful ones that I have experienced on a bike. I was able to easily grab it with my thighs and eliminate all pressure from my wrists. I have a funny feeling that there is a bunch of test riders in the TVS test team, who share my same height and build. How else could the bike feel like it has been perfectly designed and built around a rider like me?

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-tank-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-scuplted-tank-large.jpg

This is a nitpick from a design perspective that I couldnt unsee after I noticed it. The RR310 logo on the tank reads DIE RR1 when you look at it from the opposite side. If it was my own bike, I would cover it up with a sticker so that my neighbours dont wonder who RR1 is !

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-correct-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-upside-down-large.jpg

- Engine Modes
The bike comes with 4 riding modes - Urban, Rain, Sport and Track. Since we were in the mountains, I just had to leave the bike in Sport mode, even though the roads were soaked. In Sport and Track mode, the bike gets the full 34 PS and 27.3 NM of torque. The more friendly Urban and Rain modes restrict the power to 25.8 PS and 25 NM of torque. Since my time with the bike wasnt for more than half a day, I couldnt experiment with the different modes and gauge how different they actually felt from each other. After seeing that I was very comfortable with the Sport setting, I was encouraged to switch to the Track mode but I left it as it was. The bike was in a sweet spot and I wanted to enjoy it for as long as I could without changing too much.

- Engine
First things first. This is not some fire breathing 150 BHP exotic superbike that will pull wheelies in every gear. In the past, I have strongly criticized TVS for their decision to offer a sub 40 HP engine on their flagship motorcycle. 34 PS isnt a lot but in the hills, it didnt really matter all that much. In Sports mode, the bike felt eager to rev and I found myself taking corners in second gear and for wide turns, I was able to take it in third gear. Yes, vibrations do creep in once you get into the mid range but they werent too annoying. That said, it would have been better if these vibrations were further reduced or nearly eliminated.

In the conditions that I got to ride the bike, I was impressed with the engine and the fuelling.

Are there vibes at highway touring speeds? I dont know since I never got to ride the bike at those speeds and RPMs, so I cannot say. Has TVS hit the sweet spot with a 34 HP engine that can be your perfect do it all bike? Without riding it on the highway, I am unable to draw a clear conclusion on this. What I can say is that for city riding and weekend riding in the hills, the Apache RR 310 is a very good motorcycle. In comparison, the 373 cc engine from KTM is a riot on highways but personally, I find it a bit too much in city conditions.

Last edited by neil.jericho : 9th December 2021 at 09:38.
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Old 8th December 2021, 08:53   #5
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TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : Breaking it down (continued)

- Braking
The braking on the RR 310 is confidence inspiring. I would have preferred a bit more initial bite but overall, the front brakes do a good job. Their efforts are also aided by the excellent Michelin Road 5 tires, which are a default choice for enthusiasts that own big bikes. The Road 4 and now the Road 5 tires, are known to be the top preference for riders who look at touring, grip and wet weather riding.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-front-brake-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-rear-brake-large.jpg

- Clutch and gearbox
TVS claims that the bike comes with a race tuned slipper clutch and a track tuned six speed gearbox. In the real world, the clutch feels appreciable light and the gearbox is a delight to work with. Never once did I face any issues with the gearbox in the few hours that I rode the bike.

- Ride quality
The KYB suspension at the front comes with 20 steps of adjustment for damping and 15 mm of adjustment for preload. Similarly, the rear KYB suspension comes with 20 steps of adjustment for damping and 20 steps of adjustment for preload. I didnt fiddle with anything and used the bike as it was. It felt like it was set just right for me. When the roads werent perfect, the suspension did a good job of managing the irregularities and there was no harshness at all.

TVS offering adjustable suspension for both the front and rear at this price point is a very good move for them. As someone who is experimenting with the adjustable suspension on my own bikes, I have to recommend potential Apache RR 310 owners to pay the small price difference and get the adjustable suspension. In the long run, you will thank me for it.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-rider-view-large.jpg
Adjustable front suspension

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-suspension-front-large.jpg
A closer look

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-suspension-1-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-suspension-2-large.jpg

- Handling
All the endless hours that TVS spent in perfecting the chassis and handling of the RR 310 shines through brightly on hilly roads. This is a motorcycle that has been engineered to corner. Again, the Road 5 tires play a key supporting role and the end result is that the motorcycle just instills you with so much confidence that you can attack corners with some ferocity. Even conservative riders are bound to have a great time in the hills with the Apache RR 310.

Had the roads not been drenched, I could have push the bike even harder but despite the environmental constraints, I was able to enter and exit corners with far more speed than what I had imagined at the start of the day. There was a short while during which Crazy.Driver and his pillion were on the Versys 650 behind me and with the roads being bereft of traffic, we were really pushing the motorcycles in the twisties. I was so in sync with the RR 310 that I was relying on just engine braking while having a blast and charging through the corners. Second to third, accelerate hard, drop down to second, exit corner, see the open road and move up to third and show no mercy on the throttle, see approaching corner, a slight dab on the front brake, drop down to second and repeat.

The motorcycle's agile handling is quite possibly the finest weapon in its strong arsenal.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-race-spec-large.jpg

- Build quality
The build quality can be summed up in one word - premium. Slap a badge of an international manufacturer on the bike and put it on display at a motor show and not a single person will be able to tell you that this is a motorcycle that has been manufactured in India.

- Windscreen
Being in the hills, my top speed was limited and hence I could not really check how effective the windscreen was.

- Sound
It is difficult to explain what the RTR sounds like. It certainly isnt sporty but its isnt quiet either. I wish that the exhaust note had a bit more character. It is safe to say that the bike looks and goes better than it sounds.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-exhaust-large.jpg

Last edited by neil.jericho : 9th December 2021 at 09:43.
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Old 8th December 2021, 08:56   #6
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TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : Breaking it down (continued)

- Heat
While we were stuck in some tourist traffic, I could sense the heat from the engine being blown out onto my left leg. Despite my riding pants, I could feel the heat though it wasnt unbearable like a full fledged superbike. The dash also displayed the exact temperature and I could see it going up slowly above the 100 degree mark. But the cooling system did a very good job in bringing down the heat quickly and this was no doubt helped by the low ambient temperatures.

- Screen
TVS has really nailed the implementation of the big TFT screen. Ive fiddled around with the screens on a lot of imported superbikes and adveture bikes and the implementation on the Apache RR 310 is definitely among the better ones out there. The details are crisp and legible and the information is easy to read. The welcome screen is very smartly done and not once did I feel that the screen was washed out under the sun. Each rider mode screen is different from the other and is easy to understand. It would be nice if the layouts werent set and users could mix and match the different layouts to their rider modes.

That said, I wish TVS would give a wider screen in the next iteration of the RR 310. They have done a very good job with the user experience aspect, now all they need is more digital real estate. In many superbikes, you get a huge screen but a terrible layout of the details with poor readability.

The following screenshots were taken from TVS's website.

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Urban Mode

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Rain Mode

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Sport Mode

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Track Mode


- Switchgear
Like the screen, TVS has tried something different with the switchgear on the right side. Instead of the usual flip up or down switch on the top, with another one to start the bike, TVS has incorporated all the functionality into a single switch. This is nicely done. Like the rest of the bike, the switchgear feels premium and is certainly levels above what you would find on a KTM.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-switchgear-2-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-switchgear-1-large.jpg


Last edited by neil.jericho : 8th December 2021 at 12:10.
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Old 8th December 2021, 09:05   #7
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Final Thoughts

Without getting to ride the Apache RR 310 BTO bike in assorted conditions, it is difficult to completely gauge how capable the bike really is. Maybe another day or two with the bike and some time on the highways, would have given me a complete picture. Rather than dwelling on that, let me focus on how the bike performed in the time that I had it with me and the endlessly winding roads that the hills offered. The Apache RR 310 was a real gem in those conditions. We had to deal with a lot of very slow riding through steep climbs while the rain was coming down and the light clutch made it easy to manage the bike. Those potholes that were seen at the last minute due to the mist and lack of sufficient sunlight, were easily avoided thanks to the flickable nature of the bike. When I needed to overtake a vehicle or two, the responsive engine was ready to swing into action and help me put some distance with the other cars. The Road 5 tires are so good that they encourage you to lean and then lean some more. The suspension was great in the current setup and with more time, I am sure that I could have tweaked it to make it even better. All of this in what looks and feels like a premium motorcycle.

As a product, it is difficult to find real fault with the Apache RR 310. The numbers on paper have made this bike the underdog from day 1 and until it gets more firepower, that is likely to continue. Unlike its orange competition, the Apache RR 310 isnt an outright track bike that will kill your wrists or make you wonder if you should have spent more time in the gym. TVS has drawn a fine balance between offering a sports bike that can excel at the track and one that is comfortable enough for long distance riding.

Is it perfect? Well almost. TVS has spent so much time on developing and improving all the aspects of the motorcycle that one aspect stands out as being half a step behind the rest. I wont say that the engine is the weak link in the package because it probably isnt. But considering how exceptionally well TVS has engineered the chassis, suspension, ride and handling, seating comfort etc, the vibey engine feels like it needs to be smoother.

When I returned the keys of the Apache RR 310 BTO to my friend, I told him that all things considered, I enjoyed the day more on the TVS bike than I would have done, if I had ridden my Street Triple 675. Now Im not saying that the Apache RR310 is better than the Street Triple 675 but given the weather conditions, the traffic, the soaked roads, the occasionally low visibility and everything else on that particular day, the Apache RR 310 BTO was a more fun bike to me.

Would I strongly recommend the Apache RR 310 BTO to anyone looking for a sub Rs 3 L faired motorcycle? Yes. Get the Dynamic kit with the adjustable suspension, even if you think that you will never want to adjust any setting. Trust me, the output is worth every rupee that you spend on the Dynamic kit.

Is it a no brainer for anyone looking for a sub Rs 3 L faired motorcycle? Knowing the Indian market, until the new KTM RC 390 comes out and its price is announced, I cannot say that with a 100% certainty.

The old KTM RC 390 is a very different sort of fun motorcycle as compared to the sophisticated RR 310. I always found the old RC 390 to be too simple and raw while the power was a handful in the city. For riders like me who spend most of our time in the city with occasional weekend rides, the Apache RR 310 BTO is probably a better all round motorcycle than the old RC 390. All that can change with the new RC390 though but in all fairness, that bike will probably get a big price bump, which in turn will leave a sufficient gap between it and the RR 310 for both bikes to co-exist in the market.

Would I buy the Apache RR 310 BTO? Given my current two bike garage, no. But, if TVS can launch a smooth twin cylinder, 500 cc motorcycle with 47 HP (or more!) that carries all the traits of the RR 310 BTO forward, then I could find a place for it in my garage. Basically a big brother Apache RR 500 BTO in carbon fiber panels to match the Akula concept and no stickers. As TVS keeps refining the Apache RR 310, they are certainly laying the foundation what could be a game changing motorcycle for Indian enthusiasts.

The Apache RR 500 will do for TVS what the Interceptor and the GT 650 have done for Royal Enfield, and that is smash open the doors to international success. The perception of Royal Enfield in both the national and international markets has been turned around thanks to their 650 twins, which engineering wise were a massive departure from their previous products. In comparison, TVS has a much easier hill to climb, to get to twin cylindered greatness and its corresponding sales success. Only then will conversations around offerings from TVS Motors, revolve around their new flagship motorcycle.

For now though, the BS6 Apache RR 310 BTO is probably the most well engineered Indian motorcycle that you have never test ridden. If you are looking for fun, comfort and exclusivity, you certainly should test ride the Apache RR 310.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-pc051515-large.jpg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-pc051518-large.jpg

Last edited by neil.jericho : 9th December 2021 at 09:59.
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Old 9th December 2021, 10:10   #8
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing Neil!

Nice to see a manufacturer offering performance upgrades from the factory at a reasonable price. Was pleasantly surprised by the feel of this motorcycle - almost everything the rider touches and sees in front of him reeks of class! TVS has been improving it ever since launch and the BTO sure is a nice option for the price range. Thanks for the coverage, Neil!

Perhaps they will work on engine performance next, because the rest of the motorcycle sure feels like it can compete a class above.

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Old 9th December 2021, 12:31   #9
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Re: Final Thoughts

Wow! An amazing read indeed. I've spotted the RR310 a couple of times and have honestly mistaken it for a Ducati. The resemblance is uncanny but the bike is a looker. The viby engine is, IMHO, what TVS needs to address. A RR510 would be beastly! Hope for some magic from the Hosur giant.
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Old 9th December 2021, 13:53   #10
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

One of the best reviews/driving report i have come across on team bhp, your sheer knowledge and understanding of the intricacies of everything related to bikes is abundantly clear here.

I have always been a fan of this bike and i think it looks smashing in Red, these close up shots make it clear that the quality is indeed what you say it is, its a shame this never got successful.

The new RC390 having such botched up horrendous looks is a real deal breaker, i don't think even that would improve the prospects of this bike as that segment (with segment i also mean that price bracket) itself is lukewarm, even the Interceptor which carries the super hit Royal Enfield name is not successful too.

Regarding the vibrations, i might be wrong as i have not driven the bike but is this just bad luck on TVS's part that some people mentioned it and then it became "in" to bash the bike based on that?

Because even my r15v3 is not something i would call smooth at all, it vibrates from the lower midrange and progressively increases as revvs climb, i don't see many people even pointing it out leave aside considering it as a con, some reviews casually mention it and that's it.

Since it is my first motorcycle and i don't have much experience with bikes in general and have only driven cars all my life but this is the first time i'am experiencing vibrations in something that moves, obviously it is no royal enfield but that is just ancient engineering, surely the RR won't be that bad!

I think it is inevitable for single cylinders to vibrate but since the larger KTM 390 doesn't vibrate that much (i find it to be smoother than my r15) maybe TVS could have engineered a better engine themselves, i mean what did they achieve partnering with BMW apart from that mild street cred from some enthusiasts?
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Old 9th December 2021, 15:05   #11
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

Nice one Neil, reading through this reminded me of fond memories I had with Drakula. My first ever faired bike and still remembered. Overall the base dynamics of the bike haven't evolved much from the launch, but small details have been noticed and fixed. The rear view mirror per you is the best, but in gen 1 it was vibey and you could hardly see anything in rear. Good to see that fixed.

The new TFT adds to upmarket feel without a doubt, and overall for the price range it does feel very well priced, unlike the car market which is just going bonkers even with the local manufacturers. The lack of power as we discussed is felt when compared to bikes of higher entry price point, I still maintain with the current engine it is a brilliant tourer with a sports bike look. The major reason I would want for a Twin will be to contain the Vibes and not so much about power, though more power is good any day.

I really hope more people take up to this bike and TVS increases the dealership coverage and provide more test ride bikes, this is one bike which has not been able to fulfill it's true potential when it comes to sales number.
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Old 9th December 2021, 15:22   #12
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

Neil sir at his best, I always pause whatever I am doing, sit back and spend quality time reading your posts, you are an amazing writer.

Let me tell you how TVS got so far ahead with the new BTO RR310, since the launch of the bike in 2018, TVS has been very confident about the product which shows the continuous efforts they have put in, setting benchmarks after benchmarks in every iteration they have released so far. They collect constructive feedback from owners during every event they conduct or during service complaints. The feedback and complaints don't end there, it goes through their R&D team, find a solution, and reaches the end-user typically in a week's time depending on the type of issue the user has faced.

They have a fuss-free, no-questions-asked warranty, especially for the RR310. I was one of the initial owners of the bike, I still have a Google document that has around 60-70 entries of different issues on the bike from respective owners, if I now go through those issues I can see almost if not everything is sorted out in the newer bikes, such as been the faith and commitment on this product. I am very confident in saying that no other manufacturer provides this level of after-sales support like TVS does.

The BTO scheme is the best TVS has come up with until now, they know if they put in all of the add ons in the default package, it would push the costs up and it won't really look like an attractive buy for the price. With BTO, they have really differentiated what one would be getting for the price they are willing to pay, it's a brilliant idea. They are clever too, fully adjustable front and rear suspensions are the only catch here, the other options like Brass coated chain or the race kit stickering don't really add any value, it's put up to fill the brochures.

I personally feel they should have continued with the Matte Black option instead of the Titanium Black currently on offer, the design is all over the place, the less spoken about the race stickers the better, I do not want to mention the red alloy wheels as well. On one side they are offering really good functional upgrades and on the other side, it's just Meh!

Something like this would have been eye-pleasing and just right.

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-w1.jpeg

TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look-w2.jpeg
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Old 9th December 2021, 16:25   #13
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

Oh and they also need to tweak that god awful looking exhaust and that sad sound it makes; the Ntorq sounds better than the RR310.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 9th December 2021 at 17:39. Reason: then > than
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Old 9th December 2021, 16:44   #14
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

Great write up highlighting the thoughtfulness that's gone into making the bike. This may tip a lot of people who would be on the fence into buying, maybe even get people who never gave it a thought it into considering.

Quote:
TVS's mass centralization marketing material isnt hyperbole. You can feel it at work.
Reminded me of my own surprise at finding out how well balanced both at standstill and on the move the bike felt, considering its weight.

I mean the weight is very noticeable in comparison to my 150ccs. It's noticeable even on the much lighter Gixxer250 and FZ25. But comparing it to the likes of the bullets and dominars at similar weight, this felt much easier, especially for a bike with a higher than average ground clearance. That backwards engine block must be working.

I can only imagine how much more livelier the bike would've felt if it came in at 160 kgs instead of the 175 thereabouts now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketscience View Post
maybe TVS could have engineered a better engine themselves, i mean what did they achieve partnering with BMW apart from that mild street cred from some enthusiasts?
Remember the JVs with the Japs in the 80s, 90s? They floggged that tech for a decade even after parting ways. They barely improved from it on their own.

You'd think you could just reverse-engineer tech and you don't need partnerships with foreign companies for that. But tying up with these companies is a smart way to move forward. To put it simply, this way, you're not investing a lot of time and resources yourself into researching and\or reverse engineering tech because you're buying reliable expertise from people who've done it at a larger scale for a longer period while selling your abilities at low-cost manufacturing and your access to a huge market.

This time, the engineering and manufacturing knowhow concerned with producing a high-quality, high-performance and complex product relative to what they were used to producing was what TVS was after, not just putting a bigger product to market. IIRC, they also supposedly designed some aspects of the RTR200 in partnership with BMW.

Bajaj and TVS were able to make quick leaps in the tech on their bikes after their tie ups with KTM, BMW. RE's also profited by buying out a British engineering firm IIRC. Hero is still at trial and error making a competent oil cooled 200cc on its own after the EBR partnership fell through.

Anyway, maybe TVS could've produced a better engine themselves. But by 2017 when they released the RR? I don't know about that.

Fingers crossed they'll produce a well-refined Apache RTR250DOHCLC4VABSBSIV in the near future from all their learnings so far.

Last edited by drt_rdr : 9th December 2021 at 16:58.
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Old 9th December 2021, 18:50   #15
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Re: TVS Apache RR 310 Build To Order (BTO) : A Closer Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by drt_rdr View Post
Remember the JVs with the Japs in the 80s, 90s? They floggged that tech for a decade even after parting ways. They barely improved from it on their own.

You'd think you could just reverse-engineer tech and you don't need partnerships with foreign companies for that. But tying up with these companies is a smart way to move forward. To put it simply, this way, you're not investing a lot of time and resources yourself into researching and\or reverse engineering tech because you're buying reliable expertise from people who've done it at a larger scale for a longer period while selling your abilities at low-cost manufacturing and your access to a huge market.
Well this explanation makes a lot of sense, thank you for your reply.

Also, i read somewhere it takes north of ₹1000 crores to develop a brand new car engine, it would, i assume, take at least 50% as much to develop a bike engine.

You are also right, there haven't been major improvements since 90s in these Japan based Indian engines but then again there haven't been much meaningful improvements in bike engines since the 90s anyways be it any brand.

Unlike car engines which gained advanced ECUs (compared to 90s), Direct injection, electronically controlled and much better than 90s turbo charging, bike engines, at least in not so cutting edge bikes have not evolved that much and have received minor iterative updates at best,

ECUs - Were there in 90s, bike ones are not that much more advanced than those mostly.

Variable Valve Timing - Was there in 90s, had matured somewhat in cars, in handful of bikes that use this tech, they use the old basic version.

Fuel Injection - Once again basic port injection in almost all the bikes, although, i read somewhere that high RPMs in bikes prohibited the use of direct injection.

Anyways, you already explained very well how TVS needed a partner for this engine, even Royal Enfield with their newfound super success and resultant high R&D budget and despite acquiring an engineering firm were able to create only technologically average new engines, 19 hp and 47 hp from 350 and 650cc engines is hardly anything to boast about and were possible even 50 years ago, they both work decently well in their supposed applications and price points but that's just about it, hell, even their Himalayan engine which was not that new vis a vis the UCE engine was a poor effort and i see loads of leaked heads and major engine issues in that bike.

Engine building is indeed a huge deal, bikes still don't get as much love as cars, maybe because of less overall profit/sales or lack of customer demand for change/improvement.

Last edited by Rocketscience : 9th December 2021 at 19:01.
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