[nairrk]

Originally Posted by aargee

As long as someone's requirement falls into the above list, then Jupiter 125 can be considered.

Thanks

I am without a scooter since last two months (given my 2016 Maestro Edge to my relative) and have been waiting for a decent latest model scooter. Last month when I heard about the launch of the Jupiter 125 and then knowing all details about the scooter after the launch, I almost decided to go for this one.

But the news of No Kick starter on the Jupiter 125 disappointing as I don't want a scooter without a kick starter.

My wait continues....

[aargee]

Originally Posted by nairrk

But the news of No Kick starter on the Jupiter 125 disappointing as I don't want a scooter without a kick starter

Whatever suits you sir

Originally Posted by nairrk

My wait continues

If you're not looking for a huge luggage capacity, Ray ZR is absolutely great handler + good FE & leader of the silent start IMHO; the price should work to 92K OTR (in Chennai) without any frills of bluetooth & missing LED

Or if technology & FE is not a concern, Burgman, Access 125, Vespa 125, absolutely great in handling.

OT - In the era of Chetak & Vijay Super MK II, there were no confusions, just this or that; today the choices have spoiled us to the core leaving us in no peace of mind

[Gansan]

^^ It becomes an issue when the usage of the vehicle is not regular. Before my retirement my car or bike will do 26 km daily when I took them to work alternatively. Since my wife and I both worked at Guindy, it was convenient. After my retiremnent she started to go by EMU train, and the bike usage reduced drastically, it was only about 6 km daily to drop and pick her up from the station. Apart from that I took it somewhere longer once in a while. No issues since it has only kick start and no battery start. Car was used regularly during weekends for about 50 km , so it's battery was not an issue.

After the onset of the pandemic she stopped using public transport. I am dropping and picking her up from office, so bike/car are doing two round trips to Guindy everyday, 52 km total. In this scenario a two wheeler without kick start will not pose any issues. But once she starts taking the train again, the two wheeler without kick start may be a problem.

I think two wheelers electrical system still works by magneto, so the charging of battery will happen only after we reach 40 kmph speed or so, starting and idling the engine for ten minutes everyday may not work. In fact it may consume more juice than can be replaced by short running, and may drain the battery.

[Sebring]

Not just that. It also becomes an issue when battery ages. In two years it will weaken, and you HAVE to put in a new one. What was TVS thinking?

Originally Posted by Gansan

It becomes an issue when the usage of the vehicle is not regular.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Not just that. It also becomes an issue when battery ages. In two years it will weaken, and you HAVE to put in a new one. What was TVS thinking?

Well, its not as bad as everyone portrays here; I've experience of owning a non kicker vehicle CBR for over 10 years now. Yes, it can be push started & that has happened like some 3-4 times that's all.

All it needs is a weekly start for just 10-15 minutes; so even if the vehicle is ridden for 4-5 Km a week, this issue will never happen.

What no one forecasts is, when the generator goes kaput (remember this does not have a starter motor) which is when the vehicle cannot be started at all; which is as good as starter motor going kaput in vehicles equipped with kicker. Yes, if starter motor goes kaput, scooter can still be bought alive using kicker, but in this case ???

In addition to CBR, we also own a 16 year old Activa that has run 43805 Km which is hardly 2800 Km a year or <8 Km a day; only after refurbishing for FC last year the vehicle had been damaged internally beyond imagination, until then we never had issues with starter motor either. May be 2005 Activas were the best of the lots, not sure.

Last but not the least, we don't know whether its 2/3/4 years it takes for the battery to lose it's strength. Exide & Amaron MFs, I'm sure can easily withstand 3-4 years. But, TVS could've provided 5A battery, just my wish; however, Ray ZR & Jupiter both use 4A battery, while my old Activa uses 5A. May be the technology improvised on that front with lighter yet adequately powered vehicle.

BTW, I'm not defending Jupiter, but, clearing the air of misconception

Edit - When the pre-production model had a kicker & the production ones don't have one, what're the possibilities for a retrofitting a kicker especially when we know the engine is nearly the same as that of NTorq?

[nairrk]

I almost decided to go in for the new Jupiter, but staying back after knowing that the scooter doesn't have a kick starter.

I am not worried about battery life which definitely will last at least 2 years, if not more, but the under seat light can be the culprit (as it happened to me on my Maestro Edge).

There are no separate /external switch for this light (same in Jupiter also?) and the moment the seat lock is open (not necessary the seat lid is fully kept open or not) the light comes on as it works on a small push button type switch which works whilst opening/closing the seat lid.

[Sebring]

TeamBHPian Ghansan has said above that the scooter needs to reach a speed of 40KMPH to charge. Is this correct?
"I think two wheelers electrical system still works by magneto, so the charging of battery will happen only after we reach 40 kmph speed or so, starting and idling the engine for ten minutes everyday may not work. In fact it may consume more juice than can be replaced by short running, and may drain the battery"

Originally Posted by aargee

All it needs is a weekly start for just 10-15 minutes

[nairrk]

Originally Posted by Sebring

TeamBHPian Ghansan has said above that the scooter needs to reach a speed of 40KMPH to charge. Is this correct?

I remember my FNG guy gave me the tip to start the scooter and keep pushing the throttle for at least 4/5 minutes can save the battery from draining when the scooter/bike not in use for a long time.

I have been using this method during the lockdown period.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Sebring

the scooter needs to reach a speed of 40KMPH to charge. Is this correct?

I don't think so; if that's the case, whatever I'm doing with my SCross, Activa & CBR are long for over a decade.

I know FOR SURE the vehicle needs to be started & revved that's all; I've tested this with all my 3 vehicles. When revved, the generator (stator plates to precise) outputs the excess current to recharge the battery. Unless measured using a multimeter, it's difficult to say whether it's just idling or 40 Kmph or 35 Kmph is required.

Yes, the battery cannot be charged to full using this method, however, its sufficient to keep the battery good enough to start. Also to note here is that, the generator has become lighter with (TVS) IntelliGo/Hybrid (Yamaha)

Having been there & done that, absence of a kick starter doesn't scare the hell out of me Besides, it's not the kicker, there're millions of other things that can go wrong as well; BTW, that reminds me, after refurbishing our Activa, the kicker went kaput

It was like sliding the kicker of an old 4S engine with clutch engaged; the kicker goes down like butter all way down.

Originally Posted by nairrk

I have been using this method during the lockdown period.

Exactly!! Like I said, idling will not help to charge the battery completely, but enough juice to get the vehicle started again; may be some 80-90%

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Sebring

TeamBHPian Ghansan has said above that the scooter needs to reach a speed of 40KMPH to charge. Is this correct?

Originally Posted by aargee

I don't think so; if that's the case, whatever I'm doing with my SCross, Activa & CBR are long for over a decade.

I had a Sipani Dolphin during 90's which had a magneto system and also was fitted with an Ammeter. The meter will show a charging state only when the car engine speed exceeded a particular RPM. The car of course did not have a rev meter, but I always noticed the needle moved to a charging state after I reached about 40 kmph. Till then it used to show a neutral state, and a (-) state if the lights were on. Since two wheelers still come with magnetos, I feel this should still be the case; unless in FI models the engine rpm automatically maintains a charging speed or they come equipped with a different electrical generator.

My mechanic definitely told me my Splendor battery will start charging only above a certain speed. But it is two decades old. And doesn't have electric start. The battery is only for the horn/indicators and speedo light.

[nairrk]

Had a chat with the dealer guy and asked him about the non availability of Kick starter, which was there on the model scooter shown during the launch.

According to him, the Kick starter can be fitted as an accessory and the provision is there in the scooter. May be TVS doing this as a cost cutting measure to show a competitive price for the scooter

Can someone please check with your area dealer and advise what my dealer saying is correct?

[aargee]

Originally Posted by nairrk

Can someone please check with your area dealer and advise what my dealer saying is correct?

Yes Sir, will try to get this done today; I don't expect you to believe me, but I had the very exact thought of asking the service guys last weekend, but then, we got carried away due to a fabulous ride.

If you look closely the kicker portion has been sealed off using a removable rubber cap which makes me think the kicker can be fitted at later stage, otherwise, TVS would've closed the entire casing with a metal isn't it?

There's also few more apprehension for me...

• The famous rattles of parts after couple of years from Apache days with all TVS products. I was considering to post this in Jupiter 110 ownership thread here
• Getting to know the niggling issues in Jupiter 110 & expect or mitigate the same with 125

Last Friday went to a different dealer & found this guy provided us a quote on paper that looks legitimate without the "famous" handling charges. But he boosted the price of mandatory accessories (Rs 1150 for lady's foot rest, number plate bracket & one more item not sure) & this was just Rs 756 from the 1st dealership. I think these guys are conveniently capable of conspiring to connive customer's money in one way or other.

Edit - Also last weekend we checked out Yamaha Ray ZR & found it has it's own share of vibrations as well; not as much as Jupiter, but visible vibrations on idle. So I guess it's all one at the same. I only wish Access 125 had this silent start feature & we would've simply gone with it, but I'm sure it's around the corner for Suzuki; those who can wait, it makes a great choice of power + FE + features & convenient. Jupiter sadly has strong torque but not good top end, which makes it a good load carrier than fun scooter.

Here's my latest update on the 125 CC scooters in my list, sharing it with an intention it might be helpful for someone here



Edit - We also considered Activa 125, segment leader, but sadly, their P2W ratio & torque isn't inspiring. Yes, they could be having a full metal body due to the sheer weight on the panels compared to plastic panels of Access 125 or Jupiter or Ray ZR, I guess no matter plastic or metal, the vehicle has to yield good FE. Also from my point of view, it costs less to replace the entire back panels when they're plastic compared to metal. So once in 5 years or so, the scooter can be given a fresh look rather than tinkering & painting the metal.

[nairrk]

Originally Posted by aargee

I think these guys are conveniently capable of conspiring to connive customer's money in one way or other.

Yes, I agree. They are very smart in collecting some amount as handling charges, though they don't mention it while giving a quotation.

Last month, when I got their quotation for the TVS Ntorq Race edition, which Showroom price mentioned as Rs.88837 but Road Tax at Rs.9684 which actually should have been Rs.7107 (8% for vehicle price under 1 lakh) i.e. they were charging Rs.2577 extra as handling charges but without naming it as handling charges.

When I questioned about this tax percentage, the sales girl was giving some funny reasons for the additional amount. The same thing will happen if I go there for a quotation on the Jupiter 125. We have only one dealer here, and if I need this scooter, then no alternative but to pay what they are asking!

[aargee]

Originally Posted by nairrk

Last month, when I got their quotation for the TVS Ntorq Race edition, which Showroom price mentioned as Rs.88837 but Road Tax at Rs.9684 which actually should have been Rs.7107 (8% for vehicle price under 1 lakh) i.e. they were charging Rs.2577 extra as handling charges but without naming it as handling charges

Well Sir, there're few more additional legitimate charges from RTO; in TN, they collect Rs 300 in form of some fee, Rs 250 for road safety & Rs 100 for service charge. But yes, it cannot be Rs 2577 which obviously is daylight robbery.

They showed me a printout & said these are the charges; I simply said you're the guys who're printing this & asked them to show the breakup of RTO & they said it's 8%. I showed them the math of 8% of 85500 working to Rs 6840 & went on to add 300+250+100 which they themselves didn't know. And asked the extra charges on which they had to admit they're paying some XX amount to RTO for each license.

I told them why you people have to pay additional when you're the one doing this through online for which he says RTO isn't giving them the license. I told them to let it stay there & escalate for which the dealer says that all the customers want the vehicle now. I replied stating I can wait & watch to escalate so you bring down the charges for which he said he cannot do it for just one customer. Beyond this I didn't argue because I knew for sure he's making additional profit under the blanket of RTO.

Anyway, I think I'm not going to make a fuss on this because in here, it's 1.5% of the total cost of vehicle & it's going to be just one time in 15 years, I think I'll have thrown that money to a beggar!

But yes, with one dealer in city, customers are at mercy, very sad state & can't do much; may be booking through online? Will that help?

[nairrk]

Originally Posted by aargee

may be booking through online? Will that help?

Even if we consider booking through online, who is going to do the physical delivery of the vehicle - I think it will be the local dealer?

And I believe, as per the present RTO rules, the dealer has to give delivery of the vehicle after doing all registration formalities and even fitting the Registration number. If this is true, the dealers can still make their money because the scooter manufacturers cannot do the physical delivery job !