[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

The duke 390 bore kit costs 18K? you can just imagine how much money you've saved, you can spend that saved money on even a brand new head that costs 6k, new cams 3k and valves 1k - this way you a completely new top end and thus a completely new engine.

There are two block piston variants, one is the local one which is 13.5k and then there is the 19k one, which is the export quality unit. If I was going to just mess around with the bike as a n experiment, I would have gone for the Dominar block, as I am planning to use the bike for another 50 thousand kms more, now the bike sits at 37k, I want the engine to be done properly by spending more with some good quality parts. But for a person who is on a tight budget, this would be a good option.

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

I think you've answered your question.. If it's just a hollow cylinder with steel insert and piston rings why does it cost 18k. It's the finer details Boi, after rebuilding enough engines a humble advice I would propound is do not use Domi's cyl to the 390. It is 100% doable but 200% not advisable.

Good luck.

Cheers!
VJ

Totally agree with you Vijay on this point, there will be big difference between the two block piston, with the materials used and all. I would not take the risk.

Originally Posted by ebonho

https://Youtu.be/niR-s3zNJeY?si=umEBECF451tWSy2i

Cheers, Doc

Interesting video this guy has put up, only thing which is irritating is, the guy is using barberic methods to open the engine .

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Dhruv Shetty

Interesting video this guy has put up, only thing which is irritating is, the guy is using barberic methods to open the engine .

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

Not just the method but the surroundings.

The Dominar red lines at around 8000+ rpm but if a Dominar rider is honest, above 7000 rpm things get very rough

I think the big end and block piston have a huge role to play here.

Maybe if you want to ride the 390 under 7000 rpm, it is fine.

Maybe.

Cheers, Doc

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Attachment 2557588

Cheers, Doc

I've held both of them together and the Domi cylinder was so much more heavier than the 390's. There is certainly a lot of difference in the construction. I think Domi is cast iron compared to 390's aluminium block. Plus the forged pistons.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

I've held both of them together and the Domi cylinder was so much more heavier than the 390's. There is certainly a lot of difference in the construction. I think Domi is cast iron compared to 390's aluminium block. Plus the forged pistons.

Bajaj is the undisputed champion of cost vs performance benefit for riders and sharing of parts bin.

The oil filter and spark plug for instance on the Triumph 400s is same as the KTMs. Same price. No markup.

Many other small instances.

But if something costs 4500 and something else 18500, then guarantee it is different. Not just brand premium.

Cheers, Doc

[Shonith]

Dhruv, a few doubts popped up in my mind,
1. Your bike has done 37k kms have you done valve clearance check anytime prior?
2. Before opening the engine do a compression test, you will know for sure if something is leaky, could be piston rings and cylinder or could be valve and seat or could be both.
3. Does your bike start on one start? This is important to keep track of as it is an early indication of leaky valves or piston or both.
4. If the valve seals (stem seals) are leaking even this will cause oil level to drop.
37k seems very less for a piston and cylinder to wear out especially on a bike that’s maintained properly. Guys on advs have done 80k kms and their bike seems fine.

[sac23]

Here is a link to another forum where they discussed about the old and new piston and block for the 390.
Apparently, the older piston was made in Austria.
I talked to a mechanic who works on 390s (and owns one) and he also confirmed it. At around 2020 or so, there was a batch of 390s which were sold with MRF tires during the supply chain issues due to COVID. During this time, they localised the piston too. Those piston and rings were not as strong as the original ones.

So, KTM later reverted to the original piston and rings before they ended the gen 2 production.
The original piston ring set alone costs Rs. 3200!
(For comparison, the full piston and bore kit of a Dominar costs 4700 and piston ring set costs Rs.430).
Piston rings for the KTM 200 and 250 engines are also similarly priced as the Dominar, at around 400.

When you drained the oil to find only 200ml, did you drain the second drain bolt too? Sometimes a good amount of oil gets drained through it.

Also, from my experience, it's always good to do an engine rebuild the right way rather than experimenting as you'd end up doubling the expenses. It'd also be wise to get it done from the ASC as they have mastered rebuilding by now. Plus, there is always a chance of getting a faulty part with manufacturing defect and if we get it fitted from outside, they will never replace it.

[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by Shonith

Dhruv, a few doubts popped up in my mind,
1. Your bike has done 37k kms have you done valve clearance check anytime prior?
2. Before opening the engine do a compression test, you will know for sure if something is leaky, could be piston rings and cylinder or could be valve and seat or could be b
37k seems very less for a piston and cylinder to wear out especially on a bike that’s maintained properly. Guys on advs have done 80k kms and their bike seems fine.

1. I had a valve clearance when the ODO reading was at 25k and everything was in spec at that time, will have to see the condition this time around.
2. One thing is sure that the engine is burning oil and the main suspect is the piston rings, we have done alot of thinking and diagnosis, I didn't consult the KTM chaps for this , I consulted with Zenginne these guys have done alot of KTM rebuils.
3. Talking about this I will keep an eye out on this, as the bike cranks weakly on the initial start, but I leave it for a second and fires up properly, it could be the starter,after this it just starts, it happens on the first start of the day.
4. Point noted, once the engine is opened up we will know the actual condition of everything. Overall the engine condition is in good condition.

If I would be the first owner of the bike, this problem would never crop up . Plus don't forget that I'm the 3rd owner of the bike, I made two mistakes, which I mentioned somewhere in the thread, that I used Liqui Moly engine oil and engine flush, after this the problem arises.

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[Dhruv Shetty]

Small update for 2024

As I reduced my usage on the bike, cleaned off the switchgear contact points, changed the long due starter motor cable and during the switchgear cleaning, it came to my notice that the throttle cable is going to fail any given point, the point which connects to the throttle body was down to two to three threads of cable. I was bored at home the day i was doing the switchgear . Before deciding to open and clean the switchgear, i was inclined on changing both the switchgear, but then decided to open and check, clean and decide whether to change or not.

Alot of patience, cleaner (deodorant) and q tips were consumed, but the results were satisfactory and no damages were done.




All cleaned and assembled


Gave the stalk which holds the indicator switch a fresh coat of black paint.


Condition of the throttle cable


Left the bike like this for five days under the cover, as i had to go to Udupi for a family function and for the job interview and deal with it once i returned.


After coming back from Karnataka, the very next went to KTM SVC, picked up a throttle cable, starter motor cable and normal brake pads

Old vs new cable


Replacing the starter motor cable

Removing the old one



New one in



Valve clearance job

As ill be moving to Udupi for job in February, I preponed the valve clearance job before I move. The reason to do this was to check the condition of the camshaft, timing of the engine and discuss about the engine rebuild. During the process, it was observed that the one of the intake valve shim was out of spec, so the camshaft assembly was removed, inspected for any damage, replaced the damaged shim.

Got the Timing chain checked, replaced the o- rings of the spark plug area. The timing chain is in good condition up till now, once the bike is in for its rebuild the entire engine will be taken apart and inspected properly.

For the time being changed the brake pads to the organic ones till I recover some funds for sintered pads, changed the brake fluid from the racing DOT 4 to a budget DOT 4, as the racing one has a life of 8 months max, got the fluid checked by a fancy brake fluid moisture tester, it showed 100% moisture. Reason I went with DOT 4 and not 5.1 is during the engine rebuild I will be getting the callipers fully rebuilt also, so do not want to waste good DOT 5.1 fluid.

Bike cooling off and staring at the 790


Cleaned and prepped


BS3,BS4 & BS6 tank panels chilling together


Spark plug was a interesting discovery, maybe the o-rings around it were bad


On the side note, somebody bought this neglected 790 and is doing a complete overhaul of it, the throttle of this bike is not working and even KTM does not have a solution to it. As of now, the small amounts parts ordered, has already touched 1.3 lakhs and there is still more to come.


Only one of the inlet side was out of spec


Condition of the Cams and head




The cams were nicely cleaned, lubed and put back.


The bearings journals will be checked properly and decide whether to use the current cylinder head or change it.


Small brother with big brother


Up till now after the valve clearance job, it is for sure that the block piston is gone for sure. The parts which will be getting replaced are the block piston assembly, Crankshaft and timing chain.

Till then, ride it gingerly and keep topping up oil every 300 to 500 kms.

Current ODO reading 35211

Next big update will be the engine rebuild and brake calipers, early 2025.

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[V0rtex]

The gen 1 390s are hands down one of the most value for money bikes in India. I would absolutely get one if I could find a well maintained bike. Unfortunately KTM's brand image and the condition of the bikes available in my state are terrible.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by V0rtex

The gen 1 390s are hands down one of the most value for money bikes in India. I would absolutely get one if I could find a well maintained bike. Unfortunately KTM's brand image and the condition of the bikes available in my state are terrible.

This is a universal fact ... guys who really take care of their bikes, rarely sell them. Or if they do, they do so only if they have broken down irretrievably or they have sucked all the juice out of them. And they will never sell cheap.

The other bikes you see on the market are those that are used with little care or babying. Dirty. Oily. Faded. Things broken or torn or missing. The engine may still be a gem. If not opened. But you will have to spend a bomb on the rest. And the signs of abuse will still be there.

There is another class that buy and sell bikes often, rolling them over, often taking big hits, or have a lot of money and get bored (or scared) easy. Or are impulse buys, rarely used. Just standing. Or young guys moving on (abroad) with no time and parents left with the job of selling off the bike. You can get some great deals here. If you are patient. And very lucky.

Cheers, Doc

[V0rtex]

Originally Posted by ebonho

This is a universal fact ... guys who really take care of their bikes, rarely sell them. Or if they do, they do so only if they have broken down irretrievably or they have sucked all the juice out of them. And they will never sell cheap.

Maybe it's just specific to my state, but I've tried a lot and couldn't find a single bike that was good. I was actually willing to get one that has some trouble, and decided to fix it later. But the price that these owners are quoting is ridiculous. I checked out this 2013 or 14 model 390 ( 3rd owner, close to 40k odo reading), no service history and the owner was quoting 1.4 lakhs as his final in 2022.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by V0rtex

Maybe it's just specific to my state, but I've tried a lot and couldn't find a single bike that was good. I was actually willing to get one that has some trouble, and decided to fix it later. But the price that these owners are quoting is ridiculous. I checked out this 2013 or 14 model 390 ( 3rd owner, close to 40k odo reading), no service history and the owner was quoting 1.4 lakhs as his final in 2022.

Keralites are like Bawas (Parsis) about their bikes. Equally manic. Best of luck negotiating with either species. They are very clear in their heads what their bikes are worth, and market realities are not even guidelines for them. Instead, they look at what is available compared to what they are offering, what those are available at, and decide the price of their own bike is accordingly. Most also tend to be very honestly critical of their own bike, even if in love with it. So a worn out tyre set or chain kit or clutch will definitely find mention openly, and the price quoted keep that in the matrix.

Cheers, Doc

[V0rtex]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Keralites are like Bawas (Parsis) about their bikes. Equally manic. Best of luck negotiating with either species. They are very clear in their heads what their bikes are worth, and market realities are not even guidelines for them. Instead, they look at what is available compared to what they are offering, what those are available at, and decide the price of their own bike is accordingly. Most also tend to be very honestly critical of their own bike, even if in love with it. So a worn out tyre set or chain kit or clutch will definitely find mention openly, and the price quoted keep that in the matrix.

Cheers, Doc

You're absolutely correct. The Parsis at least take care of their bikes very well. I'm not reluctant to spend a little premium on a well taken care bike but spending a premium for an abused bike is a big no!

[shadowrider]

Originally Posted by ebonho

This is a universal fact ... guys who really take care of their bikes, rarely sell them. Or if they do, they do so only if they have broken down irretrievably or they have sucked all the juice out of them. And they will never sell cheap.

The other bikes you see on the market are those that are used with little care or babying. Dirty. Oily. Faded. Things broken or torn or missing. The engine may still be a gem. If not opened. But you will have to spend a bomb on the rest. And the signs of abuse will still be there.

There is another class that buy and sell bikes often, rolling them over, often taking big hits, or have a lot of money and get bored (or scared) easy. Or are impulse buys, rarely used. Just standing. Or young guys moving on (abroad) with no time and parents left with the job of selling off the bike. You can get some great deals here. If you are patient. And very lucky.

Cheers, Doc

My current 2013 390 was owned by NRI and the owner's father was finding it hard to ride it and it only clocked under 17k km when I bought it (4 months ago). It was properly maintained considering the fact that the owner not being here, except for the starter motor rust, which I will be fixing soon. Thanks to Dhruv, I now know that the dominar 400s starter is a direct fit. I still have not made up my mind whether to buy it or get mine repaired.

Originally Posted by V0rtex

Maybe it's just specific to my state, but I've tried a lot and couldn't find a single bike that was good. I was actually willing to get one that has some trouble, and decided to fix it later. But the price that these owners are quoting is ridiculous. I checked out this 2013 or 14 model 390 ( 3rd owner, close to 40k odo reading), no service history and the owner was quoting 1.4 lakhs as his final in 2022.

Oh yes, Being from the same state, I understand you. In fact, I spent a good year on online classifieds before I landed on this one. Every hour, I refreshed to see whether a new ad had come up. The prices are not all justifiable, asking 1.4l and above for 35k km, 2015 models. The owners know that there is demand and they are trying to make the most of it. All I can say is keep looking and you will surely get one.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by shadowrider

I still have not made up my mind whether to buy it or get mine repaired.

As Vijay said, its easily rehaulable. Dont make your Gen 1 a KTM Dominar hybrid, in my humble opinion.

Cheers, Doc