[twin-turbo]

C400 GT? Spotted today on way to Leh , just spotted a Citroen C3 too while writing this.

[Venkatesh]

BMW Motorrad teases C 400 GT yet again, the teaser reveals the Triple Black variant.











Teaser

[Venkatesh]

BMW Motorrad to launch C 400 GT in India on 12th October.





Link

[Sebring]

As per Zigwheels this scooter will have an ex-factory price of Rs 7 Lakhs. With many maxi-scooters coming in, the segment will see some expansion. Marketshare will come from large bikes as well as small capacity scooters.

[dinu2506]

Originally Posted by Sebring

As per Zigwheels this scooter will have an ex-factory price of Rs 7 Lakhs. With many maxi-scooters coming in, the segment will see some expansion. Marketshare will come from large bikes as well as small capacity scooters.

This will be like comparing very different products within the segment. Eg: If you talk of hatchback segment, you have an Alto at one end to say, a Mini Cooper at the other and we don't say Alto is VFM compared to the Cooper. Similarly, I feel the maxi-scooter segment could grow to be a wide one with different products which possibly cannot be compared. I guess the Aerox 155 and the CT400GT are two such products in the same segment that are like chalk and cheese, in terms of capacity, in terms of performance figures, in terms of brand etc. Just my view.
But, I should say, the Aerox155 is a very capable machine with immense potential and should be able to carve out a niche for itself within the maxi-scooter segment
We also need to see if there will be a large market existing for maxi scooters itself. Need to wait and see

[shortbread]

@ Sebring

Isn't that like saying the Honda City/Ciaz looks like VFM when compared to a BMW 3 series.

[Sebring]

Hey, Sorry guys. Should have communicated better. Let me rephrase; The category being scooter/(sub category being maxi) - would customers be willing to shell out 7 big ones? (Ex-Factory) This is the first launch in the category. And I would think (In cars too) one wouldn't jump direct to BMW/Mini Cooper class. You'd first drive a Ciaz class, and then graduate up. Your thoughts?

Originally Posted by shortbread

Isn't that like saying the Honda City/Ciaz looks like VFM when compared to a BMW 3 series.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by Sebring

As per Zigwheels this scooter will have an ex-factory price of Rs 7 Lakhs. With many maxi-scooters coming in, the segment will see some expansion. Marketshare will come from large bikes as well as small capacity scooters.

Sebring, typically market share comes from smaller capacity motorcycles and scooters, while larger capacity ones play the role of aspirational products.

A simple glance at the spec sheet shows that in the real world, the Aerox is no comparison to the C 400 GT. The Yamaha's figures arent even half of the BMW's.

Power - 15 PS at 8,000 rpm (Yamaha) vs 34.47 PS at 7,500 rpm (BMW)
Torque - 13.9 Nm at 6,500 rpm (Yamaha) vs 35 Nm at 6,000 rpm (BMW)
Fuel tank capacity - 5.5 litres (Yamaha) vs 12.8 litres (BMW)

In addition to this, the BMW gets
- high-resolution 6.5-inch TFT colour display with bluetooth connectivity for turn by turn navigation, calls, access to phone contacts etc
- ABS with automatic stability control (ASC)
- Keyless ride
- Better wind protection from the larger screen
- Accessories like top boxes, low seat etc.
- Bigger tires.

Keeping price and positioning aside, the Yamaha Aerox cannot be reasonably compared to the BMW C400GT.

Will someone pay Rs 7L ex showroom for this? I can see a few who might. It will get you exclusivity when everyone and their uncle will be rushing to the Yamaha and Aprilia showroom to buy sporty scooters.

But again, this is a halo product, and not a mass market bike. So the launch will serve its purpose for BMW.

[Sebring]

Great reply there Neil. Thanks. So who do you think the customer here really is? Surely he isn't going straight into this segment. Is he a biker? Is he moving up from a scooter? Is he showcasing his personal power (This being aspirational). Does he have a BMW parked in his garage and this wouldn't look too bad alongside? Is this a showoff purchase? Is he is serious motor-head, wanting to do a cross-State journey? I'm just thinking aloud here

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Sebring, typically market share comes from smaller capacity motorcycles and scooters, while larger capacity ones play the role of aspirational products.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Let me rephrase; The category being scooter/(sub category being maxi)

The lines may seem blurred when it comes to scooters - because there are no options in the market. But would we ever compare an R15 with a CBR650R? Category being motorcycles/sub category being faired sporty motorcycles). Sounds absurd, doesn't it?

In our market and compared against the Activa clones, the Aerox sure has a lot of appeal - but in most markets, it doesn't even come close to the definition of a maxi scooter. Should see the Aerox parked against the likes of real maxi scooters like Forza or TMax in Thailand (for example) and it's almost like our Dio here - a sporty small cc commuter.

Originally Posted by Sebring

Great reply there Neil. Thanks. So who do you think the customer here really is?

Anyone who has 8-10 lakhs and values the exclusivity. This surely is a niche product and doesn't need a clear customer base nor upgrade path from smaller segments. BMW may not even care about the numbers, this is probably just a showcase.

When Honda decided to dispose the BS4 display units that they had with Bigwing dealerships, it was lapped up immediately at an on-road price of near 8 lakhs. Who were the customers? Where they looking to upgrade from an Activa or Dio? Where is it now? Has anyone seen one after? Nothing matters - these were just few units and were lapped up before the news became public even.

[Akshay6988]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Will someone pay Rs 7L ex showroom for this? I can see a few who might. It will get you exclusivity when everyone and their uncle will be rushing to the Yamaha and Aprilia showroom to buy sporty scooters.

But again, this is a halo product, and not a mass market bike. So the launch will serve its purpose for BMW.

After reading your reply this thread cruiser for a lady (Cruiser for a 5'2" lady?) popped up in my head. There are many women riders who want to do long distance cruising effortlessly but can't get a proper touring bike because of the height and size of these bikes. I mean no discrimination and offense, but I feel these maxi scooters would be much easier to handle than a full size touring bike. These maxi scooters will definitely find buyers if priced sensibly

[Cyborg]

This scooter is as Neil mentioned a halo product, BMW is not looking at high volumes either. It’s a lifestyle/leisure product.

This scooter (generally in India) is not for the serious biker or someone who is going to tour continents. It’s simply for the person (mainly, not exclusively) who is sitting on the spare change and wants a BMW brand exclusive scooter to park in his garage for a little ride around the park on Sundays and holidays

Imagine parking this anywhere in our cities, it will have the appeal of a super bike to the general pubic and you will have monkeys climbing all over it or have it lying on the ground when you get back.

This one has nothing to do with the Aerox 155 either, it’s on another planet so to speak. The Forza 350 (or it’s ilk) may be spoken of or compared to this BMW.

Cheers

[dinu2506]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Great reply there Neil. Thanks. So who do you think the customer here really is? Surely he isn't going straight into this segment. Is he a biker? Is he moving up from a scooter? Is he showcasing his personal power (This being aspirational). Does he have a BMW parked in his garage and this wouldn't look too bad alongside? Is this a showoff purchase? Is he is serious motor-head, wanting to do a cross-State journey? I'm just thinking aloud here

Interesting query, I would say. My take on this
- Don't think it would be one moving up from a commuter scooter
- Could be a showoff purchase, but then it could be his/her second two wheeler after a large capacity motorbike
- I feel a motorcycle with panniers and other storage might be better suited from cross-state journey, but perhaps this could do well for a weekend getaway with less luggage
- For adorning the garage along with a car, hmmm, not really sure.

[Sebring]

I hadn't seen the T-Max in Thailand but I was surprised to read that Yamaha has sold 2 million of these maxi-scooters. And yet, they haven't launched it here. The potential seems immense

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Should see the Aerox parked against the likes of real maxi scooters like Forza or TMax in Thailand (for example) and it's almost like our Dio here - a sporty small cc commuter.

[Axe77]

A proper 250-350 cc Maxi Scooter (like Forza / T Max etc) should ideally cost about 2.5 - 3.25 L ex showroom as right price. At that point, it may actually have enough takers to justify marketing it here.
An equivalent from BMW at twice the price or more is really just going to be left as a halo product. While I have no doubt it will have its takers, it really truly does get slotted in an awkward no man’s land and even I’m struggling to understand who exactly that target customer is.

Even folks who ride a 26L+ GS 1200 admire Hondas for what they’re worth. If they wanted a proper premium scooter in their garage and both these offerings were sold, my sense is they would more likely pick a Forza at half the price. Sure there will be takers of every kind of exotic product and the BMW scooter is one of those. But to me, the true potential (which itself is limited) of the maxi scooter segment lies in the Forza / big Burgman / T MAx sort of segment, at relatively, the right price.

We should remember that in terms of aspirational value (“want” factor, not “need” factor), some of these mid price maxi scooters like Honda / Suzuki / Yamaha segment will also compete with the new age electric scooters at the other end of the curve, which are just as desirable but just in a very different way. Say the Ola S1 pro is available today along with a Burgman 200 / 250 plush maxi scooter (or similar). Assume one is 1.4 lakh and the other is 2.8 lakh. I can afford either. Both qualify as scooters I would “want”. I would struggle to choose between the two.

Of course my “head” may simply plonk the money in a Nifty Index fund instead of picking either but I can’t rule out the card being swiped on a 2L (+/-) segment, in a moment of weakness. Until then, I will stick to being a keyboard warrior on maxi scooter threads.