[LiCoO2]

Originally Posted by sri_tesla

Regarding warranty, I think govt needs to do something about the minimum warranty requirement. For cars, it's already sorted and all are offering 8 years and 1.5 lakh km warranty.

Fame II requires at least 3 years of warranty to eligible for subsidy. Since Ola scooter is getting Fame subsidy, they will most likely have at least 3 years of warranty.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by AnishRanjan

Lastly we are a coal burning nation and this no green what so ever. There is no efficient battery recycling process for lithium batteries at present anywhere in the world and will end up polluting and destroying the planet more.

There will/has to be that guy who talks about "OH NO!! WE ARE BURNING COAL FOR ELECTRICITY!!!", I just wished some one would actually do some research before saying that again. I see you are from Karnataka, did you know that more than 60% of our electricity comes from Renewables? did you know we are adding more renewables installed capacity than non-renewables in recent times? of course, that has to be glossed over right?

If it comes to that and you are so conscious that you don't want to thinking about using coal powered electricity, there is always the option of putting up a solar panel on your rooftop and use it. Of course, the same cannot be said for ICE vehicles, can it be?

Even if the power came from Coal, like it does for MH and UP, the efficiency of those power plants are way higher than what it will be in ICE vehicles, and this is not including the energy spent on refining crude, transportation and let's not forget the COUNTLESS oil spills that has happened. Hey, let's focus on LITHIUM mining and what it might do in future, right?

And coming to the percentage of folks riding more than 100km in a day on a scooter in city, what do you think that is? maximum 10%? Ather already has put up so many fast chargers in Bengaluru, and in my 2 years of riding Ather, I might have used that only ONCE that too just to try and see how it works. That should answer for the question, we lack "infrastructure".

[sagaranjos]

The entire touchscreen is redundant.

They just need to provide a weather resistant compartment in which I can put my mobile (and still operate it) and I would prefer that over all this gizmo wizardry.
I guess the Activas of the world would be better off if they did something like this.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by kadanaJ

does that mean at a signal...Ola Pro beating him in a traffic-signal acceleration race.

Absolutely possible. What I think is, the multiple brains behind the engineering team would've more than anticipated this & this is why Bhavish says, powered by a multi microphone array & AI speech recognition algorithms that we've built in-house, the Ola scooter can be controlled with YOUR voice.

OTOH, I don't dismiss your idea completely, instead of shutting down, someone could ask to play some music or decrease the volume; worst possible case, array of Ola scooters each playing some music on their own for public nuisance.

But then, the best part of connected scooters are OTA updates which can be forced updated for enabling/disabling such features.

https://youtu.be/Ua8jad_I_jg

Originally Posted by Gansan

How can that happen? If there is voice command, there will be voice recognition too I think.

Exactly Sir

[BikeDevil44]

Ola seems to have a winner here! I for one am contemplating if I should be cancelling my 450X’s booking and switch to the OLA. But again I feel that Ather has been in the market for a few years now and I might have the peace of mind if I stick with it. Anyways the scooter would be used within city limits and looking at it I feel I should stick with my decision and go ahead with the 450X. I feel Ather should now start providing their app based subscription to all the users free of charge to try being a bit more competitive with all these new launches coming in.

[AnishRanjan]

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

There will/has to be that guy who talks about "OH NO!! WE ARE BURNING COAL FOR ELECTRICITY!!!", I just wished some one would actually do some research before saying that again. I see you are from Karnataka, did you know that more than 60% of our electricity comes from Renewables? did you know we are adding more renewables installed capacity than non-renewables in recent times? of course, that has to be glossed over right?

If it comes to that and you are so conscious that you don't want to thinking about using coal powered electricity, there is always the option of putting up a solar panel on your rooftop and use it. Of course, the same cannot be said for ICE vehicles, can it be?

Even if the power came from Coal, like it does for MH and UP, the efficiency of those power plants are way higher than what it will be in ICE vehicles, and this is not including the energy spent on refining crude, transportation and let's not forget the COUNTLESS oil spills that has happened. Hey, let's focus on LITHIUM mining and what it might do in future, right?

And coming to the percentage of folks riding more than 100km in a day on a scooter in city, what do you think that is? maximum 10%? Ather already has put up so many fast chargers in Bengaluru, and in my 2 years of riding Ather, I might have used that only ONCE that too just to try and see how it works. That should answer for the question, we lack "infrastructure".

Coal power is clean is it? Wow i disagree. Please get your facts right and renewable's are not clean either. The amount of mining that goes in manufacture, the emissions in the entire cycle and lastly the lifespan is not where it needs to be when in comes to wind and solar. I don't want to get into a debate anyways, that's your point of view.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by sidoza

Yes, some of us do need a map in the city, not for the main roads or popular destinations, but to find the nearest shop that fixes pressure cookers, for example.

Agree!

In a city like Bengaluru, you use maps to avoid traffic buildups. I check google maps regularly to destinations I know to see which route to take.

All the features in the Ola scooter have a reasonable application once you get used to them.

To some, the scooter may seem like a smartphone on wheels. I too find it a little excessive in terms of features. But I agree with the thought process behind having the features. I will ignore what I don't need, just like in a smart phone.

If it all works out, Ola scooters will be the benchmark and all other scooters will be rated down or up from the Ola.

Cant wait for the ride reports.

[SandyN]

Would it be a good idea to go for OLA if I am living in location prone to flooding?
I went out on my old Activa got stuck in knee deep water. I had to pull and drag it out of water and I thought it won't start. But three kicks and that thing started, and has been running without any issues.

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Why would he kill his money making business, to his defence he actually experimented with EV cars in Nagpur

I am not asking him to kill his money making business. I am merely stating that when you ask common man to discard petrol scooters, it is quite natural for them to expect him also to discard in the same space. He has not made any claim about discarding ICE cabs in his fleet right? And please don't defend him by telling that he is bringing ola electric for greater good of the environment. He is a businessman at the end of the day trying to make money. He has sensed a wonderful opportunity and is going to get rich dividends for the same.

Originally Posted by shortbread

Sorry to say, but that is a terrible glass half empty analysis.

Current electric scooter sales provide very little info. Let me paint the ground reality.

I am just stating the current facts and figures my friend. I have no intention of showcasing half empty glass. Let me showcase some numbers to make my point.

I do not believe even for a second that Bajaj and TVS have huge waiting list due to overbooking. In the month of June, Bajaj dispatched 1.52L two wheelers of which Chetak electric was just 452. TVS dispatched 1.45L two wheelers same month of which electric scooter was paltry 639.

Why can't they produce more? Are they having production constraints? A company which produces lakhs of scooters and bikes do not deserve to be in the electric market if they cannot produce even 2000 electric scooters.

Originally Posted by shortbread

It is too early to judge how the scooter performs. I for one think there is a massive underserved market that OLA can target?

I completely agree with you here. Even if Ola manages to sell 20K scooters per month which would be 1/10th of their intended target, it still would mean that they outdid Ather/TVS by 30 times and Bajaj by 45 times!

[starke]

Originally Posted by AnishRanjan

Coal power is clean is it? Wow i disagree. Please get your facts right and renewable's are not clean either. The amount of mining that goes in manufacture, the emissions in the entire cycle and lastly the lifespan is not where it needs to be when in comes to wind and solar. I don't want to get into a debate anyways, that's your point of view.

Sorry for going off-topic in this thread, but it has been so many times people quoting or confused about the emissions related to ICE vs BEV.

Based on tons of studies done by reputed agencies/universities/OEMs, as of now moving to EV from ICE is the only solution to reduce emissions. This is not my opinion or others, these are based on numbers and statistics (I do no want to post all the links again, search in TBHP or google). The efficiency of electrified powertrain can not be matched by ICE and thus even an EV running from a generator is cleaner and efficient than the ICE counter-part. The more the lifecycle it extends the better it will become.

Sorry again for going off-topic, but this has to stop

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

Why can't they produce more? Are they having production constraints? A company which produces lakhs of scooters and bikes do not deserve to be in the electric market if they cannot produce even 2000 electric scooters.

Yes they have production constraints because they were reluctant to invest in an EV ecosystem.

After the initial bookings surge Bajaj stopped taking bookings temporarily, and that's despite just selling the Chetak in two cities, Bangalore & Pune. Two cities in the entire nation, shows how committed they actually are in the EV space! Imagine what would have happened if they rolled out nationally?

Here is a real example. Bajaj Bangalore, there is a 2 month delay for the scooter. That's not all despite paying for a booking earlier the dealer called back to say there is a 30k price increase.

Neither the TVS or Bajaj electric scooters have great specs either, they do not have impressive range, exciting power delivery, just bog standard overpriced scooters. Customers really do not have an option, because want anything better then shell close to 50k more for an Ather. OR buy a locally assembled chinese scooter.

None of the majors like to replace their model line up with EVs, why fix something that ain't broke. Then a disruptor enters the market and then they play catch up. It's the same storyline followed by every major automaker, 2 or 4 wheeler.

Now both TVS and Bajaj have had an epiphany! DO you think its because they see electric two wheelers being just 1% of the market?!

TVS Motor to invest Rs 1,000 cr to manufacture electric vehicles

Bajaj Auto plans a dedicated plant for electric scooter Chetak

You recover the EV premium over petrol, in 1-1.5 years of owning an electric scooter, and start making a profit from the second year. The maths is extremely simple. Even better if you have a roof top solar installation. It's just that the options for buyers are limited.

[aim120]

The BOM for the display and octacore processor along with ip67 casing won't be more then 4k because of the scale at which ola will buy. The delta price to a regular black and white display with a series of 8 bit chips and sensor port hub won't be that much.

The only way they can save a bit more is if they use a prehistoric 8 segment display.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

Why can't they produce more? Are they having production constraints? A company which produces lakhs of scooters and bikes do not deserve to be in the electric market if they cannot produce even 2000 electric scooters.

The surge in demand for electric scooter is unexpected. I personally was ok with an TVS Ntorq or Suzuki Access 125 a few months ago. Ready to pay the 1 Lakh + price tag a few months ago. Then the fuel started climbing. Then I realize my daily runabout on a scooter will never exceed 60-70kms rarely. Suddenly, it makes sense to buy an electric scooter. All the available options from big players are with big waiting periods.

Now Ola is on the horizon. I have put off the purchase for a few more months now. Not going to buy an ICE scooter. The next scooter will be an electric one.

Good Electric scooters are not cheap. But will not cost much to run as compared to an ICE scooter. This helps in long-term ownership.

Established players like Bajaj and TVS have taken a very conservative approach. Launched one product on limited production. Now, with Ola ready to capture the market with huge production capacity, it looks like the other manufacturers are suddenly caught sleeping.

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by Arjun Bharadwaj

Questions on my mind:

1. How many years will the batteries last and how many charging cycles without dropping efficiency below 90%?

Modern smartphone batteries last reasonably well for about 1.5 yrs when charged daily. That is about 500 charge cycles.

For a scooter with 120km of range, 500 charge cycles will enable 60k km. The one with 180km range can get to 90k with reasonable ease. Activas with first owner rarely cross those marks.

Not to mention this will save about Rs.2.5/km in petrol costs over an Activa. That comes to about Rs.1.5 Lac for the S1 and Rs.2.25 lac for the S1 Pro in savings in just petrol costs by the time we reach 500 charge cycles.

Most Activas would go about 6-10 years before they reach that kind of mileage, and their FE would reduce and petrol will be more expensive as well by the time they are that old.

Originally Posted by Arjun Bharadwaj

2. How does OLA plan to handle the old batteries which are beyond life? How will these be disposed?

Implementing recycling solutions now would akin to building a cart for a newborn horse. It's not needed right now. Let's cross that bridge when we get there. More clarity on the problem at hand will make it easier to solve. At the end of the day, it is lithium, which doesn't need to be mined out. Should definitely be cheaper to work with compared to drilling out lithium ore.

Originally Posted by Arjun Bharadwaj

3. What will be the cost for replacement batteries and how much % of the vehicle cost do they make up.

The answer to this question is probably a few years away. But if Elon Musk has his way, it should be in the ballpark of about Rs.10-15k for a 4 kWh battery pack (like the one in the S1 Pro) by the time it needs a replacement in 6-10 years. Thats peanuts compared to the money saved over the years.

Originally Posted by Arjun Bharadwaj

The above questions have already been asked but I am reiterating until we receive confidence inspiring answers.

I have a petrol bike that may run for 10 years no matter how I use it(FZ250). Next, even if the engine is in a bad condition, I am confident that it can be overhauled for about Rs 30,000 and brought back to life for another 10 years. Now how long can these electric gadgets on wheels run(tempted to call them that ). Is it the age of use and throw in automobiles as well?(like mobiles today)

I wonder why everyone wants to equate EVs to cellphones. Just because both have a screen? Cars nowadays also have screens, are we throwing them away in 3 years? If we are, I definitely didn't receive the memo.

There is a lot of stuff inside an EV that isn't on a smartphone and besides, it is still possible to use a ~7 year old iPhone 6 Plus if its screen still works and a new battery is installed. We choose to not use it since it no longer gets updates but if we look at at it objectively, it is still roughly as fast as a Samsung A12 which the company is selling for 15-16.5k. That phone *is* good enough for *some* people. If anything, the iPhone will end up taking better photos than the Samsung.

The difference here is, 90% of the smartphone is experienced through its screen! Thats definitely not the case with an EV (which also happens to have a screen).

The thing with vehicles is that my 2009 Pulsar 220 is still *theoretically* as fast as a brand spanking new Pulsar 220 which costs twice as much. There is no real need for me to replace it with a 2021 P220. An EV will not get progressively slower with each software update like phones do. Its *touchscreen* may get less responsive, but it will still go as fast as it did on day 1 as long as there is enough electricity to power it. Electricity is something that the battery, as shown earlier, should be able to manage for a reasonable amount of time.

[Arjun Bharadwaj]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

The answer to this question is probably a few years away. But if Elon Musk has his way, it should be in the ballpark of about Rs.10-15k for a 4 kWh battery pack (like the one in the S1 Pro) by the time it needs a replacement in 6-10 years. Thats peanuts compared to the money saved over the years.

Thank you for the detailed response and those are some very good insights/point of view.

Using renewable energy to charge these vehicles should take it one step further in sustainability. Probably the fast charging points can be made solar powered to start off with - added advantage with this is it can be completely off grid.