[GTO]

Leaving aside how they are bullied by larger vehicles on the road, I find the authorities' attitude toward 2-wheelers to be quite sad.

• On a highway drive this weekend, there was a check naka where everyone was let through, except 2-wheelers, 3/4th of whom were asked to stop by the police. I have noticed this innumerable times. Even if cars are stopped, its like 1 car for every 10 bikes.

• 2-wheelers aren't allowed on the Mumbai-Pune expressway.

• 2-wheelers aren't allowed on nice roads, even within the city. E.g. The Sealink in Bombay, or the JJ Flyover.

• Wear riding gear & a helmet and the cops automatically think you are a "racer".

• Hotels? I have heard of 2-wheelers having trouble entering 5-star properties. Not to mention, there is no valet facility, right? Some people have written about not being allowed to park in restaurant lots.

Why all this discrimination toward our 2-wheeler brothers?

[Sreesh1009]

First of all, owning a car is still a big deal in our country. So the mentality of a lot of people is to put car owners above motorcycle owners.

Secondly, people have this idea that two wheeler riders are law breaking and are notorious (?) in some way (I'm not sure if this makes sense).

Thirdly, I think people have this opinion that, two wheelers are small and hence don't need to be respected.

My final point being, the general ideology that people who ride two wheelers come from lower middle class backgrounds (scooter owners especially) or rich brats (people who wear gear and ride big motorcycles) which makes them an easy target to extort money from.

This is what I think could be the reason for the kind of treatment they get (according to me atleast).

Note: I do not mean to offend anyone with my statements, they are just my opinions.

[nutcracker]

Originally Posted by GTO

Why all this discrimination toward our 2-wheeler brothers?

Your timing is uncanny. Just yesterday, for the first time in my life I went to a 5-star hotel on a two wheeler. I was asked to park in an adjoining mall parking, and walk all the way back to the hotel. I found this to be very discriminatory.

I only bought my first bike in July, and have driven only cars ever since I turned legal, so I wasn't aware of the sheer discrimination I would go through.

Multiple time I've been stopped at checkposts to produce my IDs. Never happened on a 4-wheeler. Once a cop had the audacity to stop me because apparently I was riding an "illegal" racing bike (my KTM 390 Adventure ), and I was dressed head-to-toe in riding gear. This cop harassed me like crazy, and let me off after 45 minutes. He just made me despise (and pity) our police forces even more, with their sheer harassment to law abiding citizens. He actually wanted to confiscate my bike, and he forcibly took out the keys as soon as he stopped me. I wish I could have filmed this to expose him. All this when I hadn't even done anything wrong, and I was carrying all the respective documentsL RC, insurance etc, wearing helmet.

[RedTerrano]

I think every one is treated the same, irrespective of the number of wheels.

e.g.

Everyone is "bullied" especially if they hog the fast lanes, driving at a leisurely pace.

Last 3 times I went to Mumbai, it was to the airport to pick up someone. Every time, on my way back, I was stopped at the check naka where one exits Mumbai. Twice I was asked to open the boot and the contents inspected.

There are bridges in Pune where four wheelers are not allowed.

AFAIK truck traffic is not allowed in certain parts of Pune at specified times.

Decades ago, when I was still in school, we were shooed out of Blue Diamond (the only "posh" hotel in Pune back then) ...because we were on our bicycles!

[Abhi5868]

The motorcyclists are definitely discriminated in India, and from what I've observed this happens more so in the Northern and western parts of the country than their Southern/Eastern counterparts.

What I found even more peculiar is that even the bigger bikes have to face the same ordeal, unlike the case of four wheelers where the luxury brands enjoy an unsaid favour.

During a family function in a banquet hall, I was humbly requested to park my Apache in front of the restaurant attached to it, rather than the banquet parking itself. When asked why, the staff was unable to give any sound explanation.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by GTO

I find the authorities' attitude toward 2-wheelers to be quite sad.

• Wear riding gear & a helmet and the cops automatically think you are a "racer".

• Hotels? I have heard of 2-wheelers having trouble entering 5-star properties.

Like in all aspects of life, this is all perception based.

I think this attitudinal shift of labelling a donned rider as a racer coincided with the release of the movie Dhoom, which featured superbikes.

5 star hotels do not treat 2 wheelers the same way since the administration perceives them as

1. a class below car users and
2. indisciplined

Originally Posted by Sreesh1009

So the mentality of a lot of people is to put car owners above motorcycle owners.

Thirdly, I think people have this opinion that, two wheelers are small and hence don't need to be respected.

Same explanation as above.

However, for a change, in the event of an accident, the 2 wheeler is at an advantage even if it was the rider's fault. Reason : in a mishap, the 2 wheeler guy is a bechara (poor innocent chap)

Originally Posted by nutcracker

Once a cop had the audacity to stop me because apparently I was riding an "illegal" racing bike (my KTM 390 Adventure ), and I was dressed head-to-toe in riding gear.

Again, perception.

KTM Duke has its glamorous colours and its tin can exhaust note to blame. Ride a Hero Honda Splendor in the same gear and the cops' perception would be that you're just a normal rider.

[wildsdi5530]

One reason for not allowing 2-wheelers to park in Hotels would be to facilitate the cars. Here in Bengaluru at least, 2-wheelers will park between parallel parked cars preventing you from moving your car.

And again, on the ring road and other wide roads, 1 2-wheeler will occupy 2 lanes by weaving on the dotted line. And everyone knows how difficult it is to over take a 2-wheeler.

And the 2-wheeler who overtakes you from the left will slow down in front of your bumper to check out something, it's almost a rule. Plus they will shop while riding through market roads not allowing you to pass.

Authorities in Bengaluru may check 2-wheelers for documents more often, but they are allowed to jump signals and squeeze through wrong way/ No entry.

And God forbid you bump into one of them, the larger vehicle is always charge sheeted. 2 days back I has stopped at a signal beside a bus, a guy with wife and 2 kids and luggage on the tank hit my front passenger door while trying to squeeze through, probably to jump the signal. He and his wife picked up a fight and the traffic cop at the junction asked me to pay him Rs. 500/- as compensation. They let me off when I flew into a rage.

[ebonho]

In my experience the slower and more doddery you are, the worse you are treated.

If you are faster than everything else on the road, and barely exist for a second in the same road space of any 4 wheeler, most times it does not even register in his reaction conscious, forget about him treating you like anything.

Also anecdotally, city roads is the last place you want to mess with a bike, unless you can handle what's coming when traffic comes to a halt.

My 2 rupees on the topic.

Cheers, Doc

[srini1785]

Being the owner and user of both 2 and 4 wheels , I , for one did not see any kind of discrimination in any situations. Perhaps I am lucky. I have taken my bike to 5 star hotels and have faced no problems, in bangalore , at least.

And I must say , I have never valet parked, even my car and I have never arrived on the patio of a luxury hotel so my experience is limited.

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by Sreesh1009

First of all, owning a car is still a big deal in our country. So the mentality of a lot of people is to put car owners above motorcycle owners.

Secondly, people have this idea that two wheeler riders are law breaking and are notorious (?) in some way (I'm not sure if this makes sense).

Thirdly, I think people have this opinion that, two wheelers are small and hence don't need to be respected.

My final point being, the general ideology that people who ride two wheelers come from lower middle class backgrounds (scooter owners especially) or rich brats (people who wear gear and ride big motorcycles) which makes them an easy target to extort money from.

Very nicely put!. In one post you have answered this thread clearly.

My experience was at one of the star hotels where I had been twice for team lunch from office. Once I went by car and we were well directed into the parking lot. Went to the same hotel a few days later by bike (bullet ) and we were well directed to an open plot adjacent to the hotel!. Not that we had an issue with it, in fact we were not even surprised by it!.

Another experience was at the IOC bunk outside my office where I usually check air pressure on both car and bike once in a few days. When I was on my Unicorn and waiting for the attendant, there was no one around. I saw a couple of the petrol bunk guys idling away. One elderly gentleman is the supervisor/owner/manager there and he keeps shouting at people around. I asked the gentleman if he can send one of those guys over there and he replied rudely, "wait, the regular guy will attend".

A few days later, I was forced to enter the bunk from the other side by car, due to a small jam at the entrance and stopped in the opposite direction to check air. The attendant told me to reverse. When I explained to him the reason, this same supervisor noticed it and - "Sir, no problem, carry on!. This is fine!.

I bet you can drive around in a car (even more so a butch SUV/gorgeous Sedan) here in Bangalore without any documents whatsoever for as long as you want, provided you do not give them a chance to stop for any violation.

Random checks or stoppages? No way .

[haisaikat]

What you sow today, you reap tomorrow. And this is very much what has happened for 2-wheeler riders. They are paying back for the mischief some of them have caused. I cannot comment for other cities but for Kolkata based on several years of personal experience here are some issues with 2-wheelers that I have seen

• I have found a lot of 2-wheeler riders become very impatient on road when they are not given way, they honk and flash headlights even when it means you have to pull aside to let them pass.
• A lot of small shopkeepers consider insurance and pollution renewal costs to be profit and loss calculation and let them pass. This trait is there for a lot of individual riders too.
• A lot of riders ride someone else's bike and do not have papers.Clubbed with the previous point, these become the single most driving factor why during any unfortunate accident scenarios they will never go to police but to local / political guardians for settlement and pressurize the 4 wheeler owners.
• In the traffic then take unwanted risk in slipping between cars just to gain minor advantage on time and end up grazing your car at times.
• Safety, this is the biggest issue. A lot of riders do not like wearing helmets and they tend to overload beyond capacity, I have found many a time family folks riding where parents have helmet but not the child. Per a report the deaths caused due to 2-wheelers have doubled in India over last decade.
• Underage driving, happens a more for 2 - wheelers
• Racing with 2-wheelers is a big problem during the night time, a reason why many flyovers stopped allowing any cars for that matter beyond 10 pm until morning.
• Civic Sense, I have found lot of 2-wheelers owners do not hesitate to park their vehicle almost anywhere they wish to stop, causing massive inconvenience to others, just for some added convenience to themselves.
• Last but not the least, hooliganism, something that has been observed to happen more with 2-wheelers than any other form of automobiles. Yes, there are more darker crimes that happens within the confines of bigger vehicles but there are increasing checks being made on them to reduce if not eliminate.

[marcussantiago]

Several things come to mind:

* Cars are an aspirational status symbol. I think this has been ingrained in the minds of several previous generations. So even a "cheap" simple and battered up car holds higher perceived status than a reasonably nice motorcycle.

* Arguably in decades past, everyone basically rode scooters / mopeds and maybe a few tiny-engined commuter motorcycles. Even the fastest two-wheeler could barely crack the speed limit on a highway. So playing devil's advocate, perhaps there is some rationale to banning two-wheelers on highways. But since the early 2000s (possibly earlier) this logic does not hold, as even affordable motorcycles can easily keep up with any car on any highway.

* In a society as obsessed with class and hierarchy as India, we simply love to slot everyone into a box and then arrange them along a ladder. A guy on a bicycle is inferior to someone on a scooter, who is inferior to someone on a motorcycle, who is inferior to someone in a car. We simply love to bully anyone we can consider a lower status than ourselves, rather than seeing each other as equals.

There's also a paradox with the mentality people (and especially cops) have towards motorcyclists. If you're riding a bike, you must be poor and therefore scum. If you're riding a nice bike with gear, you're a spoiled rich brat who probably "races" (whatever that even means) and is a menace on the roads-- despite the real danger, statistically, clearly being cagers and trucks etc. You're simultaneously poor scum, AND rich enough to stop and extort for bribe money.

Anyway, I ride with a helmet cam that's always recording, and make every effort to follow the traffic rules. The game may be rigged, but it's still a game that you can play and survive: you can only harass me so far if I'm clearly following all the rules, being polite and calm, have all my papers / docs ready, and to boot have been recording everything on cam this whole time.

When I was a teenager, I deeply disliked cops. People dismissed this as me being an edgy wannabe rebellious teen or whatever. Now I'm pushing forty and still dislike cops and maintain it's for perfectly valid reasons lol.

Now with the advent of all the new traffic cameras everywhere (especially in our glorious smoggy capital), it's just going to be insane. India's GDP will probably get a boost from challaans alone, whether they're issued for the right reasons or not. The latest fiasco is that they'll challaan you for not wearing a mask in public, even though you're in your own car as the sole occupant, with the windows rolled up. Go figure.

/rant

[ashwinprakas]

One man's adversity is another man's opportunity.

The middle class sentiment is something that connects well with Indians universally. And even though the opposite of it as GTO pointed out is demeaning the sentiment part of it can easily be taken advantage of, saying so cause several times I've avoided fines giving the cliche excuse "Saar 100cc Saar...", The same has even happened when I was caught along with a fellow enthusiast for speeding, they fined the Dominar and let my 100 go.

A Motorcycle also helps when stuck in rural locations. People are ever so eager to help as I believe they're able to establish some form of relativity riding 2 Wheelers themselves.

Even when it comes to dealing with not so kind people being on a motorcycle helps, the prejudice of "2 Wheeler wale log toh gareeb hai" has many a times let me pass shady areas without any interference as Motorcycles simply fail to attract attention, you're just another one among billions.

Your vehicle registration is insignificant in rural sections, I personally have experienced situations where KL has been mistaken for Karnataka, Kolkata and what not.

Again I believe the price range of Motorcycle matters here cause I do recall cases of manhandling and murder happening to people touring on upmarket Motorcycles, but mostly this is the case when there is a mishap involved and the public tends to defacto decide that the guy riding an upmarket Motorcycle is at fault.

[samee_arian]

I may be going a little off topic here, but this reminds of a video a saw recently about a homeless Afro-American lady who had been sleeping in her car and then people coming to help her to get a job and so on. How I wondered perceptions of people differ from place to place and in different communities. Here in India owning a car is a matter of pride and success whereas most American homeless people do not have jobs or houses but own a car.

As a matter of fact, I currently own a house in Navi Mumbai and Bangalore but ride a bike and haven't owned a car for past 6 years now since I moved to Bangalore. Do not feel I need a car except for on a rainy day when I am taking my wife as a pillion. But I surely agree that bikers do get treated inferior than car owners by society, fellow travelers, police, shop/restaurant owners. Worst case, a person riding a bike on most days will be cussing bikers on a few days when he gets to use a car, may be on a weekly long drive or trip to market or a special occasion that warrants use of car.

[dextor]

Common site of this difference is seen in all Tech Parks in BLR. All have a very narrow & limited entry for 2W while for 4W there is open free way. Also the parking space allotted for 2W is always mismanaged and cramped where you are supposed to park as close as possible. But for 4W there are proper designated car parks and everyone is given enough space.

And behaviour of star hotels is of another level. Some days back I was near Leela Palace and a guy in Harley was not being allowed to enter the parking. Guard told him to park on the road side. That person (might be a big shot) just forced his way inside and abused the guard like anything.

There is definitely lot to catch up to say 2W owners are treated equally. The main reason is not the status symbol or wealth of the owner. It is majorly to do with rules and policy makers. Almost all of them are at positions where they only own/drive a car and therefore they think as per their convenience.

Its common belief that 2 wheeler drivers are rogue. In a traffic signal there would be 50+ 2W drivers & if 1-2 of them break the signal, it is considered that all are bad. But then there are all kind of people & to generalize all just because of some idiots, is not fair. There are many rogue car drivers as well who are out for a killing spree