[airbus]

While I like the decision, I think finer details need to be worked on. I would like a subscription model. Pay a certain amount for holding the battery pack and every time I go for replacing discharged battery with a charged one, I pay the charging fee. But who will insure the battery pack, would it be the customer or provider?

[PGA]

I think this is the dumbest idea of the year, a typical bureaucratic thoughtlessness with no knowledge of marketing and human behaviour.. IMHO it's sure to plummet the sales of EVs atleast in the short run. Installing and changing batteries is not a jugaad but a professional job more so in EVs, the required infrastructure for battery swapping and other such ideas will take a generation to come.

I think whatever reasons may have been there and some discussed in this thread are possible to achieve with the battery packs pre-installed as standard. Fundamental basis of EV is economics of running and I think we just killed that.

[satyamkolhe]

Weren't the subsidies for EVs decided based on their battery capacity? (Ex. subsidy of INR, XXXX/kWhr) How will that play out now?
This also is a major safety risk. As soon as the EV market becomes big enough, the market will be flooded with cheap batteries. Who will certify those batteries? How will they make sure that the batteries being used are safe for each and every car?
There have been some cases of fire in EVs which were widely tested, around the world. How can these batteries which can be bought from outside provide same level of safety . The third-party infrastructure for battery replacement, which will crop up, will need to be heavily regulated for this initiative to become a success.

Even though the initiative is good, government needs to quickly come up with a lot of rules and regulations and make sure they are implemented properly.

[mohanphadnis]

How do you meter how good /bad the battery is?
Every battery Pack comes with it’s own BMS, so we are talking about standardizing that as well.

I guess then we need to standardize the voltage and amperage output of batteries.

That means the motor capacities get standardized?

Next comes safety itself and then packaging.
Why did the mobile phones move from replaceable batteries to permanent ones?

If these batteries are liquid cooled, do we standardize cooling systems. What about the radiator sizes. They are so many questions that this idea seems DOA to me.

It may work for single model commercial fleets, but honestly even there putting a few fast chargers may be a better idea.

What exact problem is government trying to solve here? Even with batteries the EVs will reach price parity in couple of years. Once we get to $80/kwh, they will be cheaper.

[fash_1]

Wonder how terms and conditions related to warranty will be framed. Dont suppose everyone buying an e-vehicle will be familiar with the specification requirements. If someone fitting a wrong specification battery ends up in frying the motor, if it is possible at all, is most probably going to result in the buyer taking the hit. Not even going to bring insurance companies into the picture here; they're going to wash their hands right off.

[anjan_c2007]

I am posting this most apt, timely and proper backlash by many CEO's and top men in this field who are vehemently opposing this stupid, silly and preposterous notification by the Babus of the Union Transport Ministry. But on the other hand, there are some takers for such a notification who are praising the decision. Only time will tell who were right.

Those criticising the notification :-

Mahesh Babu, MD and CEO of Mahindra Electric, took a dig at the government’s decision and said in a statement, “This move has not been thought through and the industry has not been consulted.”

“No country in the world allows registration of EV’s without battery. We will explain to the government that this notification has created confusion. A vehicle is tested, manufactured and sold as an integrated unit where the OEM is responsible for the warranty”, Babu lashed.

He further added, “Either charging or swapping is post-sale charge replenishing methods. Both can exist in the current framework.”

Echoing same concerns, Saurav Kumar, Founder and CEO, Euler Motors added, "In case a consumer purchases a battery from another company, how does one ensure that safety standards will be met. So if the vehicles and batteries are not tested together, there could be issues with the performance and safety of the vehicles."

He further pointed, "When vehicles and batteries are from different suppliers, how does any issue due to the battery impact the warranty benefits for the customer is another question left unanswered."

However, Chetan Maini Vice Chairman and Co-Founder of the battery swapping firm Sun Mobility beg to differ here as there is no issue on the safety or concerns from OEMs, according to him.

"All vehicles need to be ARAI certified with batteries. So all the norms are met. However an OEM may certify there vehicle with multiple batteries from different suppliers. In the registration, they don't have to mention the battery type but ofcourse its certified. Just like an OEM certifies multiple tires the registration does not need to mention the type of tire. It's important that this is clarified", Maini explained.

This will help the OEMs as they have multiple options and also the customer.

Echoing similar views, Naveen Munjal, Managing Director of Hero Electric said, “Some other policy announcements should have been made along-with this policy to make it a more attractive proposition like the reduction of GST of batteries from 18 to 5 percent if sold separately and mechanism of passing on the FAME subsidy to such EVs as currently subsidy is calculated on the battery power.

The ones praising the decision ! Includes some more but two are quoted here.

The move will also pave the way for more players coming up in new innovative business models, such as battery leasing and battery swapping, said Maini. It will encourage an array of energy service providers to be part of the EV ecosystem.”

Commenting on the move an Ola spokesperson added, "This decision will help in the creation of an indigenous battery swapping industry and address various customer pain points in adoption of EVs and address range anxiety issues. This decision will not only solve for the improved access to EV energy infrastructure but also create large employment and economic opportunities that will contribute towards India emerging stronger in these unprecedented times.”

For the full newsitem pls click this link:-

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...india/77536446

[frewper]

A very stupid move, I must say. There is no advantage for the owner of the EV, in buying the battery separately, than from the OEM of the EV. Also very clearly the OEM is the best entity to provide the battery cheaply and reliably.

Knowing how the current service scenarios are in our country. It wont be unheard of, in case if service problems, where the OEM blames the battery supplier and the battery supplier. In a place where one wants to wash their hands of responsibility, this gives them the ability to do so.

In any EV, the battery is the most critical and complex component of all and we are giving them the option to wash their hands off it.
In the current market scenario where EVs are the new thing in the market, where anyone and everyone is starting an EV company, this gives them the opportunity to not be liable to the problem that the customer will face.

As far as i see the, with this provision, the people who will be affected will be ones who buy the lower end electric scooters, mostly from companies who are new and selling at a bargain compared to the big OEMs, getting the batteries 'externally fitted' and then after a couple of years maybe even months, running around trying to fix the bike when it has problems.

[rsidd]

This article in The Ken (free read, registration required) talks about what I hadn't realized was previously a grey area (if not black area) for battery swapping: electric cars had to be registered with their batteries. Now the MoRTH has said in a notification that EVs can be sold and registered without batteries, and batteries can be sold and registered independently.

The notification, say industry experts, is also a clear signal in favour of battery-swapping. An alternative to regular charging, swapping can reduce the recharge time from two-to-six hours to a few minutes. This logic, coupled with the allure of the low upfront price, is the main pitch for companies that offer batteries as a service (BaaS), such as SUN Mobility and Ola Electric.

“Now, vehicles without batteries can enjoy the same privileges as those fitted with one,” says Ajay Goel, chief operating officer at SUN Mobility. The firm has tied up with the Indian Oil Corporation, India’s largest oil marketing...

But the article raises valid concerns about safety and standardization, among other things.

[interest]

This stupid trend of selling things stripped of what should be considered basic requirements is catching on it seems with products in other sectors too- https://www.livemint.com/technology/...612616837.html

Wonder what else will this extend to and to what extent can it go on. Imagine a car being sold without tyres or seats to reduce the sticker price and the customer having the option to buy it separately (all in the name of eco consciousness).