[fast_n_curious]

Best of luck new Bajaj Chetak, hope it become as popular as the iconic Chetak.
I think as we move towards more and more EV we should start looking at
1. How to safely recycle batteries which have run its life
2. Charging technology or chargers (iphone vs samsung) should be a generic one and not specific to each model/company
3. Charging stations
4. Modular approach so that upgrading (add a more denser battery and range increases) is easier rather than buying a completely new vehicle

[Astonite]

Originally Posted by payeng

What is the Expected Replacement Life of the Battery of the Chetak ?

Also what is the current Cost of a replacement battery?

Incidentally, spoke to Ather yesterday on the same topic. Life of battery is about 50k kms, as of today it costs between 35- 40K and is expected to go down - info from their centralized call center.
I'm not sure why they are not able to give the exact figure however, that cost is expensive. I'm looking for my 200NS replacement and love Ather 450. Range is the problem for me. I didn't like the Eco and Ride mode but Sport mode has about 50km range and my work is much farther than that. Chetak looks promising but don't want to bite the bullet (anyway yet to come to Chennai) till 450X is launched. Hope they're smart enough to include at least a Mobile charging slot this time
Having said these, love this competition. Hope more manufacturers enter this segment which will give us better charging grid among other things.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Astonite

Incidentally, spoke to Ather yesterday on the same topic. Life of battery is about 50k kms, as of today it costs between 35- 40K and is expected to go down - info from their centralized call center.

I'm not sure why they are not able to give the exact figure however, that cost is expensive.

My guess will be: Battery change will occur in 3 years time. Battery cost will decrease over time, hence the unability to provide exact price right now.

Anyway for Cost right now, say about 36K for 3 years translates into (INR 1000 x12 Months x 3 Years = INR 36,000). An expense of approx INR 1,000 per month would hardly result in fuel savings for a scooter (that too that cost 1 lakh Plus).

What an owner right now can look forward is savings in Maintenance since there should hardly be any. Since in an EV there are no fuel/oil/air filter to change and very less moving parts compared to an IC engined vehicle.

[Astonite]

Originally Posted by payeng

My guess will be: Battery change will occur in 3 years time. Battery cost will decrease over time, hence the unability to provide exact price right now.

Anyway for Cost right now, say about 36K for 3 years translates into (INR 1000 x12 Months x 3 Years = INR 36,000). An expense of approx INR 1,000 per month would hardly result in fuel savings for a scooter (that too that cost 1 lakh Plus)...

Very true. Taking into account the overall spending per month such as subscription charges etc, this is turning out to be more expensive than maintaining a regular petrol scooter and more of a lifestyle accessory.

[BrakingBad]

can someone throw some ~estimate on Electricity consumption for charging the Ather or Chetak?
if this takes 3 units for a full charge, and if the usage is ~ 500 KM per month, it can cost (6 charge cycle x 3 units x Rs.7) Rs.126/ per month... Vs ~1000 petrol + other maintenance... E-Scooters make sense... but i may be wrong with calculation

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by BrakingBad

can someone throw some ~estimate on Electricity consumption for charging the Ather or Chetak?
if this takes 3 units for a full charge, and if the usage is ~ 500 KM per month, it can cost (6 charge cycle x 3 units x Rs.7) Rs.126/ per month... Vs ~1000 petrol + other maintenance... E-Scooters make sense... but i may be wrong with calculation

Almost correct...you've not considered idle drain, something that is not there in ICE scooters.

Below are my posts from My Ather 450 Ownership review. You can check my calculation that. To sum up, on an average, Chetak or Ather will be ₹0.30-₹0.40 per Km where as a 125cc ICE scooter will cost around ₹2.0 per km

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Q1 of 2019 is over and we've got the electricity consumption refund processed by Ather. I got an email today.

As per the report, the scooter has consumed 39.87 units. At ₹6.5 per unit (for the announced slab of 100-200kWh), I'm reimbursed a total of ₹259.15.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Two days ago I got the electricity consumption reimbursement for Q3, 2019.
I keep a monthly record of the vehicle odo it was 2792kms for the period of July1 to Sep30 2019. The consumption was 138.72 units and Hence I got
₹901.70 at the rate of ₹6.5 per unit. This comes down to ₹0.32 per km.

However I'm in a slab higher than this and I've to pay ₹7.8 per unit. That is ₹1,082.16 in total for 3 months. this comes down to ₹0.38 per km. Still 5 times cheaper running cost per km than a petrol scooter.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

my scooter has consumed 111.10 units (kWh).
However the highest BESCOM slab for my home is ₹7.80 per unit.
So I actually have spent ₹866.58 for 2112kms which is ₹0.41 per km

[ohaak]

Originally Posted by BrakingBad

can someone throw some ~estimate on Electricity consumption for charging the Ather or Chetak?
if this takes 3 units for a full charge, and if the usage is ~ 500 KM per month, it can cost (6 charge cycle x 3 units x Rs.7) Rs.126/ per month... Vs ~1000 petrol + other maintenance... E-Scooters make sense... but i may be wrong with calculation

Your calculation is correct. In the case of Ather 450 it is 2.4KWh, so you are looking at 2 units for a full charge (no one runs battery to zero).

eScooters are cheaper to maintain. They are not maintenance free. You will need annual checks + take care of any electrical problems that crop up. With my wife's HeroElectric Photon, it was bad connector cables that had to be replaced after 1.5 years. Again, Hero Electric is not as well engineered as Ather or Chetak.

After 50,000KMs, you are looking at battery replacement costs. https://www.atherenergy.com/faq/vehicle/battery So if you calculate that cost into your monthly running costs, it is probably going to be look like

Battery replacement cost after 50,000KMs. Lets assume three years for that range. (This assumes today's prices. Battery prices will definitely come down as local manufacturing units are coming up.)
Battery degradation cost is 40,000₹ / 36 = 1100₹.

Even with that cost added up front, running costs for an electric scooter are slightly lower than a petrol scooter. In addition, we are saving our own environment by not adding CO2 and other gases to atmosphere.

With good quality electric scooters, the ownership will be enjoyable. The gliding feeling and quick torque you get with electric scooter cannot be matched by ICE scooter.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by ohaak

Even with that cost added up front, running costs for an electric scooter are slightly lower than a petrol scooter.

With BSVI becoming mandatory from April 2020 .. all ICE 2 Wheelers will increase in price as a shift from Carb to FI will happen for all two wheelers. This should make E-Scooters at least Competitive in terms of Running Costs Vis-a-Vis ICE Scooters.

Originally Posted by ohaak

In addition, we are saving our own environment by not adding CO2 and other gases to atmosphere.

That is debatable, the source of electricity production could be COAL powered Thermal Plants.. in which case we are just "Shifting" the Source of Pollution. But like I said that's debatable and the priority should be to Switch to Clearner/Renewable souces of electricity production.

[Axe77]

I am keenly awaiting some credible reviews on the Ather 450X vs Chetak.

On a lighter note, anyone knows which way to tilt this Chetak if it doesn't start.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I made a comparison between Bajaj Chetak and it's only real competitor - The Ather 450.

Hemanth how did you calculate the battery capacity of the Ather 450.

Here is my edited battery info in red, I say this because Ather says it has a 2.7kwh battery pack out of which 2.4kwh is usable and the portage charger has a DC voltage of 59v. This is the information which is publicly available.
Based on the above information, I say they are using 14s18p, which means they have 14 cells in series and 18 in parallel. Each cell is 3.6v nominal and of 3AH capacity ( only when discharged to 2.5v/cell) so each cell watt hour is 3.6v * 3a = 10.8wh and 10.8wh x 252 cells = 2.72kw which is within Ather spec.

Now a full charged battery cell is 4.2v or 4.3v depending on the make and model of the cell, typically its 4.2v, so 14*4.2=58.8v about the same voltage of ather portable charger max voltage of 59v.

[ohaak]

Originally Posted by payeng

That is debatable, the source of electricity production could be COAL powered Thermal Plants.. in which case we are just "Shifting" the Source of Pollution. But like I said that's debatable and the priority should be to Switch to Clearner/Renewable sources of electricity production.

Off-topic: We are fixing the air quality in our immediate neighborhood by driving electric vehicles and that has direct impact on health. It is easier to fix fewer problem areas like thermal power generation plants than it is to fix a million vehicles.

India's priority has been set on renewable energy since Paris agreement in 2016. We are making good progress towards those targets and have exceeded the mandated goals for many milestones.

Exact data is here: https://powermin.nic.in/en/content/overview


At this juncture, we shouldn't wait for the power generation sources to get fixed and we do our part to fix our neighborhood. There are viable EV alternatives at least in the premium two wheeler segment.

[pogo0120]

Originally Posted by ohaak

Off-topic: We are fixing the air quality in our immediate neighbourhood by driving electric vehicles and that has direct impact on health. It is easier to fix fewer problem areas like thermal power generation plants than it is to fix a million vehicles.


At this juncture, we shouldn't wait for the power generation sources to get fixed and we do our part to fix our neighbourhood. There are viable EV alternatives at least in the premium two wheeler segment.

Even if all vehicles get converted to electric drives and hundreds of coal plants are added to power them, pollution will be lot less compared to existing model of petrol diesel IC engine driven vehicles.

Case 1: Activa gives regularly around 30 kmpl, while a geared bike gives over 65kmpl. There is a 100% difference in mileage under similar driving conditions. On highway, I have seen discover 100cc, giving over 80KMPL on single rider, doubt if Activa can achieve that.

There you go! Inefficient transportation system. If all two wheel bikes give 100kmpl, then we will be burning half as much of petrol as we are burning today, thereby reducing pollution by half.

On the other hand electric vehicles with regen give mileage which is almost same for both city and high way driving conditions. Teslas give higher city mileage due to lower speed and lesser wind resistance than driving at 100mph where wind resistance reduces mileage.

Case 2: Coal power plants are not located in the heart of city rather outskirts. Now a days ultra clean coal power plants are available which try to grab every possible Joule of energy and reduce pollution by host of methods like treatment of exhaust, electro static dust collector and so on.

Finally when wind and solar energy take over, the ultimate solution to our transportation related pollution will be taken care of.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by aim120

Hemanth how did you calculate the battery capacity of the Ather 450.

Here is my edited battery info in red, I say this because Ather says it has a 2.7kwh battery pack out of which 2.4kwh is usable and the portage charger has a DC voltage of 59v. This is the information which is publicly available.
Based on the above information, I say they are using 14s18p, which means they have 14 cells in series and 18 in parallel. Each cell is 3.6v nominal and of 3AH capacity ( only when discharged to 2.5v/cell) so each cell watt hour is 3.6v * 3a = 10.8wh and 10.8wh x 252 cells = 2.72kwh which is within Ather spec.

Now a full charged battery cell is 4.2v or 4.3v depending on the make and model of the cell, typically its 4.2v, so 14*4.2=58.8v about the same voltage of ather portable charger max voltage of 59v.

I just took 2.7kwh (reason you've given) and the nominal voltage of 51.5V (mentioned in the Ather Spec sheet from their website) and arrived at the figure of 52.8ah

[arzala]

I have following points to add here:

1# Battery cost will not decrease from 2020 to 2030 the way it did from 2010 to 2020 mainly because Lithium + Cobalt supply is not abundant and India does not have it much.

2# 3 years of battery life does not seem positive signal to buyers because lets say in 1st year you are happily driving, then from 2nd year you start bit worrying that next year approx. > 30000 to be spent towards battery replacement and finally in 3rd year you would be very disappointed that anytime you have to keep 30000 ready. Here I am thinking same like how we psychologically manage today's smartphones.

3# Unlike cars, swap-able battery (like mobile phones or home cooking LPG cylinders) would be better option considering quick commuting of scooter within city.


4# Government can easily start allowing to open STD/PCO like charging stations but what would be the cost of charging? Because if you take someone else's service/premise then there will come issue of commercial charging + GST etc. which will eventually make charging more costly? To me it looks like government is doing green-energy related policy changes with half-heart because at this moment half of the revenue received through sell of fossil fuels will be stopped which is major source of income to run various departments and schemes.

[gururajrv]

Honestly, Chetak seems pretty interesting & gives an impression of premium. But, I only hope it doesn’t tail any problems along with it like usually Indian bikes are prone to with new launches at times.

Basically cars & bikes are mostly ‘smartphones’ converted to vehicles with wheels we will witness more and more competitors coming in for sure to test their luck just like smartphone brands increased significantly over the last decade.

I have a weird feeling these EV’s batteries are going to be more or less will pollute our environment if manufacturers do not provide a way to either replace / reuse them. Time will reveal and answer all of this.