[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

All the guys who are out in favor of bigger capacity bikes. Have you personally taken your bigger bike offroad? What has your experience been? Not your skill level, just your personal experience with your bike off the road?

I dont know if you meant me because I am not in favour of a bigger capacity bike for off roading conditions (as I already explained in my post).

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Like deepfreak15, I too am not really an offroad guy, I might watch some videos here and there or read this thread but my interest doesnt go too far beyond that.

Once again, I hope this clarifies. Xpulse or Himalayan for a newbie like me for off roading conditions only.

I wouldnt take my Street Triple with its firmly road based tires for any off roading

[deepfreak15]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Since Im not much of a social media person, I had to spend a grand total of 5 minutes in searching the internet, which led me to this link and another one

That is just cruel sir. I never knew such a beautiful place existed so close and yet so far . Have already made a mental note to visit this place once things go back to being normal. Whenever that is!

Originally Posted by Red Liner

All the guys who are out in favor of bigger capacity bikes. Have you personally taken your bigger bike offroad?
If not, even your responses are also simply conjectures. Please dont relate to Youtube videos of someone else or pictures of some bike on top of some peak. Please participate with personal experience.

I actually did go back all 7 pages of this thread and did not find any post stating a big bike would fare far better than a smaller bike (except for one place where someone felt the rider weight was bogging down the bike). But point taken, will only post here again only after I have made an attempt to go off-road. The only reason I posted in this thread was because off late I have observed a trend of "A tiny 100cc bike is all you ever need" irrespective of what the bike topic is. Also multiple excerpts of some relevant and some not relevant google searches claiming that is all the proof one would ever need and the discussion should end with that! So I felt that had to be called out, a confused newbie looking for information should not end up being more confused than when he/she started.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

That said, it is not correct to gang up on him, but respond with your own personal experiences offroad

Whatever gave you the foggiest idea that someone would even dare to attempt ganging up on him

Originally Posted by Red Liner

What bike you ride in itself is unimportant in this discussion.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make. Instead of claiming what would work best for everyone based on some google excerpts it would be great just to see what you guys are doing with what you have so I can also follow along and learn. But point taken, it looks like one should only post here if they are going to go off-road.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Now lets see your multis, enduros, big beemers, and striples offroad... We are bored

There is no way on God's green earth I am going to go off-road and by some twist of fate if that happens it will never be recorded.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by deepfreak15

The only reason I posted in this thread was because off late I have observed a trend of "A tiny 100cc bike is all you ever need" irrespective of what the bike topic is. Also multiple excerpts of some relevant and some not relevant google searches claiming that is all the proof one would ever need and the discussion should end with that! So I felt that had to be called out, a confused newbie looking for information should not end up being more confused than when he/she started.

Instead of claiming what would work best for everyone based on some google excerpts it would be great just to see what you guys are doing with what you have so I can also follow along and learn. But point taken, it looks like one should only post here if they are going to go off-road.

The *Splendor beats everything* bit is becoming something of a running joke here. That aside, I'm sure nobody was saying a 100cc bike is the answer to all problems, atleast in this thread.

If you're referring to ashwinprakas's posts, I guess I can see your confusion. That is something of a continuation of an earlier conversation from a different thread. To put it simply, the point he was making is that stroke length of the piston inside the engine directly affects how much roadgrip you have while riding. This relationship seems to be a fairly reliable guide in the real world for finding a motorcycle that would be easy to ride offroad i.e. offers good low end torque and traction. To oversimplify it, long stroke good.

Based on this, his posts also intended to suggest that the ktm adv390 is not that good for offroading due to having a very short stroke, with redliner's video as evidence of the same, not that's it's necessarily true. I hope that's cleared things up.

But do take note of his posts where he's posted actual riding data and pictures. That would give you an impression of real world riding performance on a 100cc roadbike for whatever it may be worth to you.

[TheVaas]

Steering (or rather 'off-roading') clear of the confusions, misinterpretations, lost in translations etc., this is something I wanted to know more about -

What is 'off-road' deserves a separate thread of it own - but say if the terrain is half-constructed road or hard soil; something we come across on our rides - a patch that leads to a river bank or a reservoir dam enclosure or say the LEH-Ladakh terrain that's a mix of all? Does one opt for the riding modes (if present in the bike) or bypass it completely?

Originally Posted by Red Liner

1. I switched off traction control. Big mistake. The TC would have controlled wheel slip, and I would have been out of it in a jiffy. It’s what happens if you follow Youtube like a blind wuhan bat.

The reason for me asking such a newbie query is because many of the Indian rider youtube videos say that one has to switch off TC and ABS completely when approaching an off-road section. At the same time, other ones like Mototrek etc., say that the TC actually helps in many of the tricky scenarios. The 390A has TC and ABS switchable options and no riding modes. But other bikes come with riding modes, like my Tiger XRX has an "Off-road" mode.

So anyone here who has actually ridden/experimented with the 'modes' and without - who can give a more personal experience rather than a theoretical one?

[Justin]

Traction control is switched off when you want to pass through terrain with less traction(sand, gravel, slush, etc), because you would need continuous momentum to pass through the obstacle and TC cuts power whenever it detects wheelspin resulting in get stuck in the middle.

However, if you are stuck, switching on TC will aid you in getting out, as in this case, wheelspin mostly results in worse situation, so it's best to prevent wheelspin.

To simplify, if the situation demands continuous momentum, switch off TC, whereas if you need max traction(wet roads, dry rocks, etc), keep the TC on.

The "Off-road" mode switches off ABS to rear brake, and allows some wheel slippage. It depends on the terrain and one's throttle control to decide whether to keep TC off/on.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by TheVaas

The reason for me asking such a newbie query is because many of the Indian rider Youtube videos say that one has to switch off TC and ABS completely when approaching an off-road section. At the same time, other ones like Mototrek etc., say that the TC actually helps in many of the tricky scenarios. The 390A has TC and ABS switchable options and no riding modes. But other bikes come with riding modes, like my Tiger XRX has an "Off-road" mode.

So anyone here who has actually ridden/experimented with the 'modes' and without - who can give a more personal experience rather than a theoretical one?

Originally Posted by Justin

Traction control is switched off when you want to pass through terrain with less traction(sand, gravel, slush, etc), because you would need continuous momentum to pass through the obstacle and TC cuts power whenever it detects wheelspin resulting in get stuck in the middle.

Interesting to have this question pop up -right at the time I just got done making this fresh new video on the topic!

https://youtu.be/UDElYoRQDOo

A picture is worth a 1000 words...and a video is probably

We all had TC on all the time after this experience. I never switch it off unless if on sand. Sand is where you need the wheel to spin to get out, because the only traction there is the wheel spinning the sand out. Everywhere else, as Brett Tckas says, keep that TC on everywhere except deep Sand.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

All the guys who are out in favor of bigger capacity bikes. Have you personally taken your bigger bike offroad? What has your experience been? Not your skill level, just your personal experience with your bike off the road?

Sure, here you go:

Offroading in Rajmachi 1

There are videos around this with my friend on his Africa Twin.

Offroading at Taila Baila fort

Offroading at Kamshet Windmill farms


Now, that it answers the first part of your question, yes, I have ridden offroad on my mighty big GS Rallye in various places.

Do I enjoy it? Yes absolutely, it goes over anything with ease and is pretty agile to control given it's low CG. In fact many here suggest knobbies and all, I've gone offroad with stock Bridgestone Batallax tyres on the bike. Did I miss having offroad tyres? Not sure because I haven't ridden a bike with offroad tyres to know what's on offer. Given the reviews from fellow bikers, I agree that it provides much better traction than road tyres but as they say, ignorance is bliss.

Coming to the second part of the question, what's the difference between a big bike and a small bike going through trails? I would ideally love to get a Suzuki DR650 or similar to throw around. Thankfully, I haven't had any incident offroad and haven't dropped the bike even a single time to understand the pain. But, should that happen and cause any damage to the motorcycle, I'd be really upset. I even feared the fact that I may not be able to lift the bike at all when I went offroad solo. But, once on the trail, all these worries are behind me and I enjoy going through the experience.

How do smaller bikes perform? They do go up all trails that big bikes can do equally well or in some cases better. Those cases would be on things like rocks. I am pretty scared of them because I am not well equipped on offroad riding gear. A bad fall could render me hurt and render me incapable to pickup my bike or head to the nearest medical facility. A smaller bike in such scenarios might be very very easy to manage.

That said, a lot is discussed about the equipment and the gear. I have seen lesser mortals do crazier stuff. Like on the Rajmachi route, in pouring rain, I saw a family of 4 on a Splendour traveling with utmost ease. That's probably his need than hobby.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

The *Splendor beats everything* bit is becoming something of a running joke here.

Did you say Splendor

That post above quickly went a bit viral.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Sure, here you go:

Do I enjoy it? Yes absolutely,

Awesome. This is what we wanted on this thread, a wider participation from folks who want to or have taken their bikes off the road. With experience, such discussions become far more well rounded.

You brought up a few fair points:
1. The GS is great on light offroad trails like the ones you showed, and as you gain more experience, tougher trails are not far away.

2. Big expensive bikes offroad = big deep pockets

3. A lighter second bike for pure offroad or dual sport riding is good. Actually, in your use case of having that big beemer, its a no brainer to just add something lighter to the garage to just have more fun. For me, the Versys and the 390 Adventure were too close together. Same for another TBHPian who bought a BMW G310 GS and kept it along side the Versys, and after a couple of months sold off the Versys, because the GS kind of did everything well.

4. Protective dual sport/MX gear. Now this is a big one, I think we must have a good discussion on this away from the Riding Gear thread, because things just get lost there. After having read your feedback on the Sidi Adv GTX 2, and read a bunch of reviews, watched a truckload of videos, and browsed a clutch of other forums, my perspectives have now improved a bit. I'll start a separate post on that, so we have a line of unbroken replies. I have watched two bad falls by mates in my own group, and both hurt their legs. One was down for a week, and the other was out for 3. More on that in a bit.

5. Folks haven't brought up "bike setup" for offroad riding. This is another big one. I listened to a podcast by Chris Birch, and did a few subtle changes, and what have you, the bike feels like night and day offroad now from how it was set up from the factory. I'll put together a post on this as well.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I dont know if you meant me because I am not in favour of a bigger capacity bike for off roading conditions (as I already explained in my post).

Originally Posted by deepfreak15

This was exactly the point I was trying to make. Instead of claiming what would work best for everyone based on some google excerpts it would be great just to see what you guys are doing with what you have so I can also follow along and learn. But point taken, it looks like one should only post here if they are going to go off-road.

Naaaaaaaah! Please do participate with questions you might have about taking your bike or any bike offroad for that matter or even just comment. Just that the prior discussion was going the way of the Bigger or smaller touring bikes thread. (Big vs Small Touring Bikes)

Truth be told, we needed a wider participation here - the first few pages just have 3 or 4 us jabbering about!

[neil.jericho]

Since Overdrive missed out on the KTM adventure 390 in their mega super duper offroad shootout, they have done another one with the lower capacity motorcycles.

OD

Its not the best video that they have done but it does have some good points hidden in there.

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Sure, here you go:

That is some nice footage indeed! How did you position your camera for the two videos, the angle is pretty unique and for the life of me I couldnt figure it out.

Originally Posted by deepfreak15

That is just cruel sir. I never knew such a beautiful place existed so close and yet so far . Have already made a mental note to visit this place once things go back to being normal. Whenever that is!

I too havent been there and I plan to head there once things are back to normal. That said, given our skillsets (or rather, distinct lack of them!!), how are we going to get to the top

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

That is some nice footage indeed! How did you position your camera for the two videos, the angle is pretty unique and for the life of me I couldn't figure it out.

For the one at Rajmachi I used a chest mount. (GoPro chesty)

For the one at Taila Baila and Kamshet windmills, I used a long stem RAM mount on the handle bar with a GoPro on it.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

a lot is discussed about the equipment and the gear. I have seen lesser mortals do crazier stuff. Like on the Rajmachi route, in pouring rain, I saw a family of 4 on a Splendour traveling with utmost ease.

Let's not underestimate the actual physical, tangible benefits of dedicated hardware.

Honestly, there's nothing crazy about riding a very light roadbike slow on a relatively flat surface, loaded or not. It's not like the ground suddenly becomes unrideable with a little bit of mud and rocks strewn around. I'm sure the splendor uncle and his family+their goat and chicken can hang alongside your GS Rallye and even make you look bad, provided you're riding easy stuff at a slow pace.

But like urban_nomad put it so well a few pages ago, adding speed to the equation is when things start to fall apart for the regular road bike. Even something as basic as a hero impulse offers an appreciable difference over similar roadbikes. I would absolutely positively not dare to do some of the riding I've done on an impulse with any roadbike.

So, when you pick up the pace a bit on the GS, splendor uncle and auntie will fall off their bike trying to keep up with you (and no dinner for them that night when the goat and chicken escape).

That said, bigger bike doesn't necessarily mean better either.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Did you say Splendor

That post above quickly went a bit viral.

Then I'm sure we'll see the launch of Splendor Crosscountry from Hero a few months down the line. Can't wait for it!

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Let's not underestimate the actual physical, tangible benefits of better hardware.

Honestly, there's nothing crazy about riding a very light roadbike slow on a relatively flat surface, loaded or not. It's not like the ground suddenly becomes unrideable with a little bit of mud and rocks strewn around. I'm sure the splendor uncle and his family+their goat and chicken can hang alongside your GS Rallye and even make you look bad, provided you're riding easy stuff at a slow pace.

...

So, when you pick up the pace a bit on the GS, splendor uncle and auntie will fall off their bike trying to keep up with you (and no dinner for them that night when the goat and chicken escape).

That said, bigger bike doesn't really mean better either.

Not sure what part of my post implied that the Splendour guy was any less than a big bike on the surface. If my post came across like that, it wasn't the intent. In fact I was appreciating the fact that what might sound adventurous to an enthusiast, could be routine for others.

[drt_rdr]

Wait a sec, I actually meant splendor guy IS lesser than a big ADV on the surface because of the limitations of the design and intent of the product.

[deepfreak15]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Sure, here you go:

There are videos around this with my friend on his Africa Twin.

Do I enjoy it? Yes absolutely

I am seriously going to stay away from the motorcycle section of the forum for a while . Watching those videos and looking at my bike under wraps is downright depressing . Its always a joy to see a motorcycle put through its intended purpose. No offence to any owners but even an RC 390 in the city is a bit of a bummer, but watching someone give it the beans around a track is a joy to watch. I got the same feeling watching your videos.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Its not the best video that they have done but it does have some good points hidden in there.

It was very difficult to watch, once upon a time that was the first place I would go for domestic motorcycling news and reviews. Now I don't even bother.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I too havent been there and I plan to head there once things are back to normal. That said, given our skillsets (or rather, distinct lack of them!!), how are we going to get to the top

I am planning on huffing and puffing my way to the top. Going up will be challenging but coming down will be downright scary. But now I'm tempted. What's the worst thing that can happen?

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by deepfreak15

I


I am planning on huffing and puffing my way to the top. Going up will be challenging but coming down will be downright scary. But now I'm tempted. What's the worst thing that can happen?

Let me know, will join with the GoPro, need some new content