[Urban_Nomad]

Warranty claims are a lot about the (company's) attitude and much less about the fine print. No matter how careful you are; it is super easy for the ASS to throw the book at the customer. Its how they value their customer and / or perceive the concept of "Customer Service"

Case in point, a friend had purchased a brand new Hero Xpulse and was at a local Karol Bagh shop to get a "free flow Chakrapopich" fitted to his bike... all before you could say "Warranty Leviosaaa"! On a recent ride to the hills, the engine suffered critical failure and the bike had to be towed to the local Hero ASS

Now, how easy would it have been for Hero to throw the book at him and say - Your Chakrapopich ruined everything! But here's what they did:

- Apologized for the inconvenience
- Got all parts replaced FOC
- It took over 2 weeks for the work to be completed, so he was given a Hero Xtreme for the duration of the repairs
- Someone from Hero rode his bike from the hills to Delhi to hand over his bike, Asked for a few hundred rupees for fuel and was on his way back

So ya... the premium uber expensive made of angel tears BMW customer service SUCKS!

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Oh well, let's agree to disagree. Check the fine print in the warranty to see if adding aux lights or harnesses is permitted. If it is then all is well, but if it clearly mentions no mods are allowed then they will deny the warranty on that affected part. I have seen that happening with my cars and bikes, when I in my enthusiasm added accessories including electrical, tyres and alloy wheels. It is personal experiences after which there have never been mods to any of my vehicles till the warranty expires.

One can ensure any mods are completely reversible before handing over to the dealer for service or warranty claim. Otherwise you are just giving these already slippery organisations a reason to duck the warranty.

Yes, you are going completely by the rule book or the warranty card and that is fine.

Unfortunately it does not work in the real world.

Newer adventure bikes come with something called an accessory socket. This socket is meant to take on things like heated grips, aux lights,and whatever else. This allows you to plug and play accessories of your choice without touching the original wiring harness. There is no need to. And as long as you don’t exceed the rated capacity of the alternator, you are good to go.

So then to have this accessory socket in place, but the warranty booklet saying you can’t use them sounds very counter intuitive, don’t you think?

You know, the akrapovic exhaust is legal if done at BMW, but warranty ceases if you buy the exact part outside yourself and DIY. Like really? Are we idiots?

The warranty booklet was designed by lawyers.
The bike was designed by automobile engineers.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Sorry to disagree. First nasirkaka didnt cut or splice any wires - he used a proper wiring kit from Akro to connect the aux lights directly to battery as per his email. Secondly - all these ADV type bikes have accessory connections and stronger battery/alternators - they are designed to connect all sorts of touring stuff like Aux Lights etc.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Newer adventure bikes come with something called an accessory socket. This socket is meant to take on things like heated grips, aux lights,and whatever else. This allows you to plug and play accessories of your choice without touching the original wiring harness. There is no need to. And as long as you don’t exceed the rated capacity of the alternator, you are good to go.

So then to have this accessory socket in place, but the warranty booklet saying you can’t use them sounds very counter intuitive, don’t you think?

My intent is not to analyze if what BMW did is right or wrong, but to see this purely from a technical point of view.

The power to the accessory socket comes from the OE wiring harness. So, it becomes the responsibility of the manufacturer to make sure that the battery does not get deep discharged by connecting an accessory to the socket. Even if they did not provide a deep discharge cut off circuit, it becomes their liability to change the battery if any accessory is connected to the socket. At least they would have provided a fuse for the circuit to limit the current to the maximum specified value.

But when one connects a load directly to the battery, the manufacturer has absolutely no control on the circuit. What if the battery cut off circuit of the accessory did not function and deep discharged the battery? What if the accessory's current rating is more than what the battery and/or the alternator could support? What if the accessory short circuited and there was no fuse protection? Ofcourse, the manufacturer can do a case by case analysis and fairly evaluate what accessory was connected and if it could technically damage the battery and then honor the warranty. But this would be a very tedious process as only a design engineer would be able to judge this and it is simply not possible to train the dealers to do this.

So, in summary:
Wouldn't it be good if the company honored the warranty? Yes. It would be good.
Is the company bound to honor the warranty? No. It is not.

This is what creates a grey area. Many times the dealers happen to be customer focused, and they end up supporting the customer. Many times dealers happen to be just business people and find this an opportunity to make money.

IMHO, if we decide to make any modifications to a car or motor cycle, we should be prepared to forfeit the warranty. We could definitely appeal to the SA and the company. But if they refuse, just move on.

PS:
I saw that the aux light is rated at 36W. At 12V, this would draw 3A of current from a battery. I also saw the battery is rated at 8AH. For an 8AH battery, 3A is almost 40% of the C/10 rating. This is a significant load and I doubt if the manufacturer would have provided so much buffer in the design.

PPS:
I have experience on how accessory installers work on the electrical circuits. An example is how an accessory installer had made electrical connections in my Polo GT TSi.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...ml#post3908081 (Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi. EDIT - Reliability concerns on page 8)

I had to completely rewire everything myself to remove any fire risk. As most of the accessory installers know nothing about safety, I don't blame manufacturers for being strict with their warranty policies.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by graaja

So, in summary:
Wouldn't it be good if the company honored the warranty? Yes. It would be good.
Is the company bound to honor the warranty? No. It is not.

This is what creates a grey area. Many times the dealers happen to be customer focused, and they end up supporting the customer. Many times dealers happen to be just business people and find this an opportunity to make money.

In legal speak - you are absolutely correct. However in real world of big bikes - if a dealer starts refusing warranty for installing Aux Lights - he is just being an idiot as he will loose sales hand over fist. And again i say - its Tusker who is known for pulling such shenanigans. I have all sorts of accessories installed on my bike by VST Ducati and i have 0% doubt that they will get any reasonable warranty claim passed by Ducati.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

In legal speak - you are absolutely correct. However in real world of big bikes - if a dealer starts refusing warranty for installing Aux Lights - he is just being an idiot as he will loose sales hand over fist. And again i say - its Tusker who is known for pulling such shenanigans. I have all sorts of accessories installed on my bike by VST Ducati and i have 0% doubt that they will get any reasonable warranty claim passed by Ducati.

Absolutely agree. That is why I said it would be definitely good on the part of the dealer or the manufacturer to honor the warranty.

I am in a similar situation like you with my Polo GT. I have made extensive modifications to install the OEM BiXenon projectors. God forbid, if I end up in a situation for the DSG to be replaced, I have already decided to not hold VW or my dealer responsible even though the DSG may be unrelated to the gearbox. If they honor the warranty, I will be very grateful. If they do not, I will just pay up and move on

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by graaja

I am in a similar situation like you with my Polo GT. I have made extensive modifications to install the OEM BiXenon projectors. God forbid, if I end up in a situation for the DSG to be replaced, I have already decided to not hold VW or my dealer responsible even though the DSG may be unrelated to the gearbox. If they honor the warranty, I will be very grateful. If they do not, I will just pay up and move on

While i get what you are saying - there is a world of difference in expectations/behaviour between cars and bikes. Putting accessories like aux lights / usb chargers / filters etc are extremely common in bikes - as others have mentioned - most ADV bikes come with ports/connection points for adding them as well.

Whereas situation is totally different in cars - most manufacturers pretty much discourage from putting anything aftermarket. If i was in your shoes - i would have accepted if VW voided electrical warranty - but no way can they try to wriggle out of DSG warranty unless they can show a correlation between headlights & gearbox.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by graaja

PS:
I saw that the aux light is rated at 36W. At 12V, this would draw 3A of current from a battery. I also saw the battery is rated at 8AH. For an 8AH battery, 3A is almost 40% of the C/10 rating. This is a significant load and I doubt if the manufacturer would have provided so much buffer in the design.

[

You are not fully correct here. The battery is only used to start the bike up, not to run the accessories. The alternator juices the bike after start up.

What we need to look at is the alternator capacity. If you are under the alternator rated load, you are good. If you go over the alternator capacity, then the battery is juiced out.

But which dealer will sit and calculate all this and look at all the wiring etc. Easiest way out is point the rule book.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

You are not fully correct here. The battery is only used to start the bike up, not to run the accessories. The alternator juices the bike after start up.

If only life was that simple, eh?

On any modern motorcycle the 310 and my P220 included, the alternator's sole purpose is to charge the battery, as in literally, nothing else.

Here's a picture of the 3 Phase stator coil on the Versys 650;



There is literally one huge primary winding that feeds the RR unit which again feeds the battery.

Everything else draws current from the battery, be it the starter motor or the horn or the lights or even primarily the ECU(In your case) and DC CDI(In my case).

The only motorcycles to ever beat the system(yet, partially) are the pre 80's ADV's and the current small motorcycles like my CT100B which feeds the lighting and ignition charge directly from the stator.



As you can see the windings can be separated into primary ignition coil winding that feeds AC CDI, lighting coil that feeds the headlight, and the rest that feeds the battery which still does feed the electrical's.

So to put things simply, graaja was dead on point.

Regards,
A.P.

[Turbanator]

A naive question- Does BMW uses some Imported bearings on this bike? In past, I have being asked by Toyota to claim battery replacement from manufacturer directly. There used to be a warranty card with new car if my memory serves right. In which case, can’t we simply claim replacement or ask technical evaluation from the Battery manufacturer?

[Red Liner]

I think we are missing the tree for the woods here or the other way round, I don't remember.

Technical mish mash aside, its plain stupid for the dealer to refuse warranty replacement, though well within their rights. Luckily a replacement battery costs next to nothing.

And maybe life should be simple. Machine for man, not man for machine.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

A naive question- Does BMW uses some Imported bearings on this bike?

I don't know about the make as I haven't seen anything like them before.

They look so beautiful that I saved an image of them head bearings I stumbled upon, heck I'm going to frame it given the chance!

Unfortunately I do not recall the source though;



Here's what they regularly look like on my motorcycles;



Pathetic! Even the balls have to be manually put into place as at times the pack doesn't even include a plastic brace.

Though cant really blame them cause they cost only about 250'ish and the ones on my CT100B are still the ones from the factory at close to 35k km's and all the abuse that came along with the mileage.

Sorry for going further down the OT rabbit hole, I simply couldn't ignore mentioning how flawless the BMW bearings look.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I don't know about the make as I haven't seen anything like them before.

My apologies, I implied Battery. Doesn't BMW uses Indian batteries on these bikes in which case, one can simply talk with the brand directly.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by graaja

So, in summary
Wouldn't it be good if the company honored the warranty? Yes. It would be good.

Is the company bound to honor the warranty? No. It is not.

And those two points say it all. If you mod your vehicle, you're on your own and the manufacturer and/or dealer do have the rights to refuse warranty coverage. No matter if we rave and rant about it on forums. If one gets lucky the dealer may choose to overlook it.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Yes, you are going completely by the rule book or the warranty card and that is fine. Unfortunately it does not work in the real world.

You know, the akrapovic exhaust is legal if done at BMW, but warranty ceases if you buy the exact part outside yourself and DIY. Like really? Are we idiots?

The warranty booklet was designed by lawyers
The bike was designed by automobile engineers.

Yes, whether we consumers like it or not manufacturers go by the rule book and frankly I don't blame them. So to be on the safer side:

a) use manufacturer approved accessories

AND

b) Get the dealer to fit them

OR

c) Have any aftermarket accessories removed before taking the vehicle to the service centre.

Believe it or not, when my old out-of-warranty car goes for a service Toyota gets a report on EVERY single aftermarket accessory that is in the car, tyres, ICE, horns, and heck if they knew about it even the Philips Vision+ hi beam halogen bulbs would be reported. I remember a time when I installed an Amaron battery and the service advisor sniffed and said only Exide is approved. Of course that changed subsequently and Amaron and Tata Green are also approved brands. Some manufacturers are sticklers for these details.

As for lawyers vs engineers - trust me, it is the former that win a large majority of the times. And Corporate Bean Counters are have the same or better win ratio as lawyers.

[v12]

The experience I have had with Kawasaki was completely different. When I asked them about putting an after market exhaust , they were very clear about the warranty.
1. Akrapovic was officially available through the dealer and will be fitted by them as well. Warranty would be intact since the part was officially sold. Also Akrapovic was available as an official accessory (like Arrows for Triumph).
2. I could go in for other after market exhausts if I wanted. Officially, it would void Kawasaki warranty - but if it was a small issue, it could be handled at the dealer level. If the issue was big or complicated, Kawasaki would definitely honor it.

The safest option, hence, is :
1. Either stick to OE items OR
2. Fit aftermarket but ensure they are taken off during service / warranty claims.

Personally, I feel BMWs attitude towards Nasir's case is really sick and uncalled for. Irrespective of the aux lights, the issue persists even on other motorcycles where aux lights were not installed. Why can't they recall these defective parts and replace them under goodwill?

[Haroon]

Warranty most times with BMW bikes goes out of the window with their well articulated fine print....and from personal experience and seeing a lot of international forums, BMW is one company that seems to follow it very diligently! Although, I have come across few cases in USA where they have provided 'goodwill warranty'.

Back in 2006, when I picked my GS from the BMW Motorrad dealer in Saudi Arabia, he was also the dealer for Wunderlich and hence if you added anything from the Wunderlich catalogue (and it was installed by the dealer), then warranty was intact. Anything else and you kiss goodbye to warranty. So much so that the BMW official accessory exhaust (made by Akrapovic) fit by the dealer was fine but the similar exhaust directly bought from Akrapovic (costing 30-40% less) voids warranty!

As for the power socket and adding additional accessories, BMW was among the earliest to put the Canbus on their bikes so they dont have any fuses (I think the 310 dont have canbus). For example you can not plug your tire inflator into the accessory socket as that socket only puts out a certain fixed amps to run your GPS/mobile etc or max maybe heated vest/gloves etc. Anything over that and the complete electrical system is shut down by the Canbus. So for Canbus bikes BMW only approves certain aftermarket products (naturally they come with premium price tags also!) and to be preferably fitted by an authorized BMW dealer. Anything else that you fit voids warranty.

From the dealer side also there is another issue for them to claim 'warranty labour cost from BMW'- BMW Germany has fixed labor time for each work and honestly most dealers say that is something almost impossible for their trained mechanics to complete in as BMW has calculated these hours based on what a super expert mechanic can do. Therefore any additional time that the dealer's mechanic spends on that task is to be absorbed by the dealer. So many times for complaints involving lots of labor the dealer also will try his best to find some excuse to wash his hands off or say this is covered, that is not covered etc and as is customary BMW will not interfere in that or best case will side with the dealer.