[Bismaya]

Has anyone spotted the drum variant of 125 yet? I haven't seen it.

[ishan12]

Originally Posted by payeng

That is purely your OPIONION. Since the sales numbers definitely doesn't support that.


Really?? According to me, the Pulsar 135LS wasn't accepted as a Pulsar.. and had no effect of the Pulsar 150 leave alone "Dilute" it.

Of course it is my opinion, I did not make a Pulsar sales bar chart before writing that. Aren't forums all about peoples opinions.

Also, It dose not matter if P135 was accepted as a Pulsar or not, fact is that it was named a Pulsar.

Brands are all about Opinions and Perceptions.
How about BMW starts selling BMW 1 series or 0.5 series with 1.2 Liter petrol engine at 10 lacks. Will certainly sell, but the brand will take the hit.
If sales number were all that mattered then Maruti had no need to upgrade their Alto, Swift or Dzire. They might as well just launch the same Swift with different graphics/ colors and 800cc engine and call it Swift 800.

Also, when we talk about the flat sales curve, point to consider is that the market above 100cc has also grown in the same time. It is high time Bajaj does something new and gives the Pulsar brand an overhaul.

When I was in college and bought my Pulsar 180, it used to be an aspirational brand. Remember Definitely male, Fastest Indian, then they had the Stunt mania then Indias No1 sports bike! that is how Bajaj positioned it.
It is now reduced to a commuter.

What Pulsar used to be for a teenager like me during the late 2000s is now KTM for the young rider of today.
Look at how Yamaha has built on their FZ brand or the R15. How TVS has built on what was the Apache 150.
Bajaj had such advantage being the first manufacturer to sell in such numbers in the above 100cc segment and with such fan following for the Brand Pulsar.
It should be in my opinion a case study on how to ruin an established brand

[payeng]

Originally Posted by ishan12

Of course it is my opinion, I did not make a Pulsar sales bar chart before writing that. Aren't forums all about peoples opinions.

Also, It dose not matter if P135 was accepted as a Pulsar or not, fact is that it was named a Pulsar.

Brands are all about Opinions and Perceptions.
How about BMW starts selling BMW 1 series or 0.5 series with 1.2 Liter petrol engine at 10 lacks. Will certainly sell, but the brand will take the hit.
If sales number were all that mattered then Maruti had no need to upgrade their Alto, Swift or Dzire. They might as well just launch the same Swift with different graphics/ colors and 800cc engine and call it Swift 800.

Also, when we talk about the flat sales curve, point to consider is that the market above 100cc has also grown in the same time. It is high time Bajaj does something new and gives the Pulsar brand an overhaul.

When I was in college and bought my Pulsar 180, it used to be an aspirational brand. Remember Definitely male, Fastest Indian, then they had the Stunt mania then Indias No1 sports bike! that is how Bajaj positioned it.
It is now reduced to a commuter.

What Pulsar used to be for a teenager like me during the late 2000s is now KTM for the young rider of today.
Look at how Yamaha has built on their FZ brand or the R15. How TVS has built on what was the Apache 150.
Bajaj had such advantage being the first manufacturer to sell in such numbers in the above 100cc segment and with such fan following for the Brand Pulsar.

It should be in my opinion a case study on how to ruin an established brand

Its true Bajaj hasn't been proactive in terms of creating more successful brands.

But to be fair, it did try with the Dominar.. but the "aam janata" still can't get over the "Elephants"..!!

[ishan12]

Originally Posted by payeng

Its true Bajaj hasn't been proactive in terms of creating more successful brands.

But to be fair, it did try with the Dominar.. but the "aam janata" still can't get over the "Elephants"..!!

Dominar is a great product IMO, better than the "elephants" in many ways.
If the twins were not priced so aggressively, Dominar would have been my 2nd choice.
But again Bajaj messed up when it came to marketing a great product like Dominar, classic example of how a good product can be damaged by bad marketing.
Still I would say Dominar is doing decent numbers in the segment it belongs. (RE 350 is an exception). Also, they have registered good demand with the 2019 version.

As for the Pulsar 125, going by the trend Bajaj follows, we would soon see Dominar 150 and Platina 400.

[Bismaya]

The 125 Neon costs here for Rs 81,525 on-road for the Glossy Black variant. And the 150 Neon is Rs 5000 more costly now due to the ABS. The non-ABS 150 Neon cost exactly the same as 125. The Drum brake variant of the 125 Neon costs about Rs 79,200. It is yet to arrive though.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Bismaya

The 125 Neon costs here for Rs 81,525 on-road for the Glossy Black variant.

Guess Sarathy Bajaj is overpricing the motorcycle here at Kollam as I was quoted Rs.91,500/- OTR, I was under the assumption that OTR prices leveled across India, do correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bismaya]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Guess Sarathy Bajaj is overpricing the motorcycle here at Kollam as I was quoted Rs.91,500/- OTR, I was under the assumption that OTR prices leveled across India, do correct me if I'm wrong.

Unfortunately they aren't leveled. Road Tax varies across state. Then there's insurance and accessories. I'm interested to see how the drum variant works to stop a 140kg bike. My brother had a 150 Pulsar before we got the Unicorn. Had munched 1.2L kms on it. We are considering on getting this 125 now for city commutes. Even with the downsides, they bike will have more edge on the ShineSP or Glamour.

[vivekgk]

I don't think that this dilutes the brand. The original Pulsar and the DTSi came with less powerful engines, and were much less refined overall. This is a 125 that does an indicated 115 kph top speed. I still have my old 2004 150 DTSi UG1, and I'm amazed by how far the Pulsar has come in terms of engine refinement, gearshift quality, switchgear quality and standard equipment. At the time, every other manufacturer was charging extra for items like Saree guard, Side stand, Number plate etc, while the Pulsar had everything factory standard, and added value with alloy wheels and that trick exhaust. The Unicorn didn't even have self start at the time.

For me, the appeal of the Pulsar brand has been great performance coupled with great value. And I think the Pulsar 125 still personifies that.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Bismaya

...the 150 Neon is Rs 5000 more costly now due to the ABS. The non-ABS 150 Neon cost exactly the same as 125.

I had already made my comment on that very same fact.

i.e. the Pulsar 125 has been conceived to fill the "price - point" void that the Pulsar 150 had ruled for so long... and which could no longer be held due to the ABS Ruling for above 125 cc bikes

Originally Posted by vivekgk

I don't think that this dilutes the brand. The original Pulsar and the DTSi came with less powerful engines, and were much less refined overall. This is a 125 that does an indicated 115 kph top speed. I still have my old 2004 150 DTSi UG1, and I'm amazed by how far the Pulsar has come in terms of engine refinement, gearshift quality, switchgear quality and standard equipment. At the time, every other manufacturer was charging extra for items like Saree guard, Side stand, Number plate etc, while the Pulsar had everything factory standard, and added value with alloy wheels and that trick exhaust. The Unicorn didn't even have self start at the time.

For me, the appeal of the Pulsar brand has been great performance coupled with great value. And I think the Pulsar 125 still personifies that.

I am with you on that..

The Pulsar brand stands (and has stood for) for "Affordable Performance Commuter".. isn't that the Pulsar 125 is?

[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by ishan12

Brands are all about Opinions and Perceptions.
How about BMW starts selling BMW 1 series or 0.5 series with 1.2 Liter petrol engine at 10 lacks. Will certainly sell, but the brand will take the hit.
If sales number were all that mattered then Maruti had no need to upgrade their Alto, Swift or Dzire. They might as well just launch the same Swift with different graphics/ colors and 800cc engine and call it Swift 800.

I don't think your BMW example applies here, for the following reasons:

1) The Pulsar is priced at the higher end of its segment. It is the most expensive 125, priced higher than the CB Shine SP. Only the sports bikes like KTM and the luxury brands like Vespa/Aprilia are priced higher.

2) Pulsars have always given the most bang for the buck, and that hasn't changed. The CB Shine looks overpriced by comparison, and looks and feels like a commuter.

Now, if they had launched a 100cc Pulsar which could barely hit 90 kph, I'd be right with you.

As for the Swift 800 example, this also doesn't make sense, as the 125 isn't based on something like the Platina or the Discover. It's a true blue pulsar engine with a shorter stroke, on a proper twin downtube pulsar chassis, with 90/90 and 100/90 tyres. Even the Swift is notorious for seriously under-tyreing its lower variants.

Originally Posted by ishan12

When I was in college and bought my Pulsar 180, it used to be an aspirational brand. Remember Definitely male, Fastest Indian, then they had the Stunt mania then Indias No1 sports bike! that is how Bajaj positioned it.
It is now reduced to a commuter.

At launch, there was the 180, which was the aspirational bike, the performance king, and then there was the 150, which was the one you could actually afford to buy and run. The 150 was priced lower than the CBZ and could give it a run for its money, while the 180 just beat up the CBZ and took its money. So, there was always the performance oriented model and the commuter model, both of which got better with each iteration.

What has changed now? The 125 makes more power than the original 150 did, and is much better equipped and more refined and better built. As for the aspirational bikes, Bajaj is still making them, aren't they? They're also making the KTMs. Even the much hated 135LS was a real pulsar, in that it was sportier and more powerful than the 150, at launch. Also remember that the original Pulsars 150s were only 143cc, and it wasn't until UG4 that they were bored out to 149cc. So, it's just a 19cc difference between the new 125 and the original 150, and the 125 is miles ahead in performance.

Originally Posted by ishan12

Look at how Yamaha has built on their FZ brand or the R15. How TVS has built on what was the Apache 150.
Bajaj had such advantage being the first manufacturer to sell in such numbers in the above 100cc segment and with such fan following for the Brand Pulsar.
It should be in my opinion a case study on how to ruin an established brand

I think it's great that Pulsar has still not forgotten it's roots. IMO, it is performing a vital function of being the entry/transition point to performance biking, while still being economical to run. My P150 UG2 (not UG1 as I mentioned earlier) used to give me 65-70 kpl on the highway, and it made my life a lot easier in college. The newer 150s struggle to get that kind of mileage.

Pulsar has never been the snobby brand. It has pioneered a lot of things that we take for granted today in the 150 segment, like standard disc brakes, CV carbs, twin spark, dual maps, wider tyres, 17 inch wheels, alloy wheels, self start, LED lighting, digital meters, backlit switches, auto cancelling indicators, exhaust resonators and a heck of a lot more, and offered it in the commuter segment. It was the brand that started off the fires in the 150 segment by making it affordable, and forced the others to follow suit.

Here's hoping that it will do the same in the 125 segment as well.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by payeng

Its true Bajaj hasn't been proactive in terms of creating more successful brands.

But to be fair, it did try with the Dominar.. but the "aam janata" still can't get over the "Elephants"..!!

Payeng, I would say not only did Bajaj drop the ball in terms of creating new brands but they havent done enough to build on the successful Pulsar brand. While we love the dissect the rise (and fall?) of the Pulsar brand, we should also look at the other silent pillar in the Bajaj lineup. The Avenger had such strong brand value at one point of time but its been diluted with the 200, 220, 160, 150, 180 variants here over time.

As for the competent Dominar, well, it is more of Bajaj's inability to play to it's product's strengths than the customer's reluctance to switch loyalties.

Originally Posted by vivekgk

At launch, there was the 180, which was the aspirational bike, the performance king, and then there was the 150, which was the one you could actually afford to buy and run. The 150 was priced lower than the CBZ and could give it a run for its money, while the 180 just beat up the CBZ and took its money. So, there was always the performance oriented model and the commuter model, both of which got better with each iteration.

What has changed now? The 125 makes more power than the original 150 did, and is much better equipped and more refined and better built. As for the aspirational bikes, Bajaj is still making them, aren't they? They're also making the KTMs. Even the much hated 135LS was a real pulsar, in that it was sportier and more powerful than the 150, at launch. Also remember that the original Pulsars 150s were only 143cc, and it wasn't until UG4 that they were bored out to 149cc. So, it's just a 19cc difference between the new 125 and the original 150, and the 125 is miles ahead in performance.

vivekgk, I agree with ishan12 on the aspirational front. I do not see anyone talking about a Pulsar when they talk about buying a new bike, and this includes a wholesome mix of enthusiasts as well as regular folks for whom a motorcycle is just a transportation device. And this has a lot to do with the staleness of the offerings. The same old same old stuff from Bajaj year after year after year.

I had the first gen Pulsar 150 for several years and my brother owns the NS 200 so its not like I am anti - Bajaj. But the truth is they were the pioneers as you said but now they are an after-thought. The offerings from its competitors appear to be better built. Bajaj still isnt renowned for its quality while the other bikes have invested a lot to improve product quality. The game has moved on.

The reason that this is a topic that we keep discussing on the forum is because many of us here have owned a Bajaj bike in the past (often the Pulsar) and we know what Bajaj was capable of when they were on top. And we want Bajaj to do well, competition is what is best for business and us customers.

In the coming years, if Bajaj can well, do a Bajaj, turn back the clock and repeat the twin launch of the original Pulsar 150 and Pulsar 180 with say a Pulsar 390 and a Pulsar 790, they will let the cat among the pigeons.

[Bismaya]

Revised Pulsar prices post the 125 release (OTR Bhubaneswar):

Pulsar 125 Drum Brake: 75,259
Pulsar 125 Disc variant: 78,100

Pulsar 150 Neon ABS: 88,674
Pulsar 150 ABS: 98,958
Pulsar 150 Twin Disc: 1,04,910

Also, does anyone have idea about the bore and stroke length of the 125 Neon? Can't it anywhere online. Have plans on buying the bike. TD'd it. Gearing seems the same as 150. I'm a bit worried if the shorter stroke length and 57mm dia (if they used the 150 block) might cause frequent gear changing in city traffic.