[Vikram8891]

I feel sad for the deceased rider. Honestly I cannot get myself to blame the family for feeling the way they do. On the other hand, it must be noted that I personally know of 2 people who have done the Leh ride with "organised" groups. One is my cousin who did one last year. I don't know of the costs but his convoy consisted of a medical van and a mechanic along with the spare parts. Also he was provided all the riding gear and a bike for the whole trip. I am sure it did not come cheap. Not implying anything here.

The second individual is actually the one who sold me my current bike. I was following his updates on Facebook and he returned day before yesterday when he confirmed that his group got panicky when they saw landslides and apparently some bus or tempo traveler getting stuck in the debris. They decided to cut their losses and return.

I think the risks (and this is debatable) are high when visiting such areas. The nature is against you and I often wonder if the sense of achievement is worth the risk. Definitely an eye opener for anyone considering this route. Please do research in detail about the operator/organiser you choose.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Would totally disagree, however! What else is life worth living for, if not for passions?

Emm.. passions that are not likely to get you killed. Just saying.

[sukiwa]

Incident opens up issues about our preparedness for disaster management situations, while nation has improved in recent years, it is yet to percolate to individuals & groups.
Life has been lost unfortunately, Jojy happens to be father of BHPian Rohan Cherian.

Sincere condolences to Rohan and his family.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Let me add my 2 cents though a little off topic.

Organizers really need to know and assess riding skills.

I have a friend who does offbeat trips where 4x4 vehicles are required to traverse through some difficult terrain to reach campsites.

Whenever the terrain is challenging he calls me to give a short brief and training session on dos and don'ts during the offroad bit and in worse trails I also accompany them to spot and guide.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Life has been lost unfortunately, Jojy happens to be father of BHPian Rohan Cherian.

Sincere condolences to Rohan and his family.

My heartfelt condolences to Rohan and his family.
I used to follow this Fakira guy on Youtube. I always wondered how does he manage such a big group. Every year it keeps on Increasing. I thought these guys also have Travel Insurance issued.

[farhadtarapore]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Emm.. passions that are not likely to get you killed. Just saying.

Totally agree. These foolhardy endeavours are just not worth the risk to your life. Especially when you have responsibility of a family also.

[ani_meher]

Prayers for the soul of the departed. He died what he loved doing. Leh Ladakh has this allure of calling bikers towards itself, and no matter how touristy it gets, it still is a barren lands with real mortality risk.

I don't understand the direction of the news article. The 'tour operators' are facilitators and have limited responsibility. The costs shown at the end of the news serves what purpose?

Such news only reminds the viewer that motorcycle riding is a dangerous passion, and irrespective of how protective rider one is, some loose rocks on the road and a truck can kill him.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

...most non-professional organizers don't seem to care how (in)experienced the riders are, as long as they pay up.

Originally Posted by MSC

Raft drivers not knowing to swim, Glider pilots not having any official training, and so on. The list is too long.

Originally Posted by Vikram8891

Please do research in detail about the operator/organiser you choose.

Have been involved with one particular adventure sport in an amateur capacity for the past 5 years. Nothing major, weekend fun with a bunch of fellow amateurs. But I will say that after whatever I've seen over the past 5 years, I would rather trust the amateurs than the 'professionals' when it comes to adventure sports in India.

In general, the amateur practitioners have better gear since this is a hobby and it is usually personal gear, not being milked for max profit or being used by numerous inexperienced folk. There is a better awareness of the risks, a higher chance of backing out when the assessed risks are too great. The fact that you will know each one in your group personally and their competence levels. The fact that the entry barriers to such groups are a guiding/mentoring process with a group of 'seniors' who have more experience and not just the ability to pay the entry fee.

Here too we're seeing guys with more confidence, bravado and social media flair than actual skills looking to start adventure sports ventures on their own, looking to make a career out of it after very little experience in the field. Nothing wrong with wanting to make a career out of adventure sports, but without going through a certain number of years with more experienced folk, without certain certifications and training, without getting necessary approvals and emergency plans/infra in place, these are just accidents, blanket activity bans, and government over-regulation just waiting to happen.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Originally Posted by am1m

Here too we're seeing guys with more confidence, bravado and social media flair than actual skills looking to start adventure sports ventures on their own, looking to make a career out of it after very little experience in the field. Nothing wrong with wanting to make a career out of adventure sports, but without going through a certain number of years with more experienced folk, without certain certifications and training, without getting necessary approvals and emergency plans/infra in place, these are just accidents, blanket activity bans, and government over-regulation just waiting to happen.

I totally agree with this!

In our offroad business all of a sudden new event management companies have blossomed that provide 'expert drivers and trainers'.

We spend lot of money on training and certification including first aid and fire fighting for our team but these fly-by-night operators just walk into a meeting with flashy presentations and rock bottom price quotes and top car companies would go with them just because they need to protect their bottom line!

I remember one event I had attended as a spectator and the 'expert' tells me the side slope is 75° and still the car doesn't topple! Seriously - 75°?

Before we hand over tracks, we make reports, record all angles, show to the concerned person, take a sign off and then proceed with an event. Not to mention we try all dumb things on the track to simulate customer errors so that there is no damage to life and property.

Even a lot of offroad trainings are a sham - we get a lot of guys who come to offroad with us and who've undergone training at err various places and the manoeuvres that they do are appalling and the winch safety is non existent! I'd go on a limb and say a jittery suicide bomber with an improvised IED strapped to his chest is a safer bet to sand next to than these blokes.

Sorry for the rant but I've been saying this for many years, we are one disaster away for the authorities to clamp down on offroading like never before; our country politicos anyway love knee-jerk bans! And media loves to sensationalise!

[Torque_Curve]

An image of the wrecked bike in question has been doing rounds on social media:

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by am1m

.I would rather trust the amateurs than the 'professionals' when it comes to adventure sports in India...

Matter of semantics, but I meant professional as in 'know what they're doing' not 'have a website, social media presence and investors'.

My driving instructor all those years ago (that Dad chose for me) operated out of a room that barely held a table and two chairs and taught driving on an old car (I wanted to walk away and enrol at the 'professional' looking establishment next door with a fleet of shiny vehicles), but my guru had 35 years of experience teaching people like me, and I now thank him everyday. The outlet next door to his office, they shut down ages ago.

[KMT]

Well, I am sick of seeing self drive cars and bikes crash EVERY DAY on our roads in Coorg.

The drivers/riders dont have experience for hill roads, yet they are given powerful vehicles to operate.

Many end in fatalaties and they are an absolute nuisance/danger to other road users.

The whole self drive industry should be regulated via stiff insurance.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by KMT

The whole self drive industry should be regulated via stiff insurance.

You are targetting the wrong animal. There should be more focus on Driver training before handing out Driving Licenses. That will reduce the accidents and not trying to clamp down on rental companies.

[navin_v8]

It always makes me feel sad to hear that a biker has fallen before a never ending test called Life. May the soul of the departed rest in peace.

This thread has brought out some really nice thoughts to ponder on w.r.t tour operators, legalities, preparedness, mental and physical fitness, etc. Having stayed in Bombay all my life there was time in the 90's when riders used to hit the Khandala-Lonavala circuit, Kasara Ghat, etc. One thing I always noticed that the riding dynamics changes completely once one starts riding on the National Highways compared to city roads. As the highways are empty riding speed climbs up, one becomes complacent due to less traffic on the highway, braking distance is taken for granted, road signs are ignored, etc. I know this as I have paid a price and speak from my personal experience.

Now coming to Ghats where the riding dynamics changes drastically. The roads are narrow, steep, curvy with loads of blind spots while taking corners. I was surprised to see most of the riders continuing to ride in the same manner as they ride on the city roads. Overtaking on a narrow ghat road, sudden braking due to misjudgment while taking corners, riding on wrong gears on steep inclines and declines, etc. Fact is these riders cannot differentiate between the dynamics of riding in city, National Highways, Ghats/Mountain Roads and some ultimately pay the price. One more thing that intrigues me is that why are most riders in a hurry while riding? makes me think if they are preparing for Rallye Dakar!

In this day of internet and information the most one can do is to check the ratings of such tour operators. While I know some ratings are heavily doctored and biased but connecting with people via such platforms can help one gather information about tour operators and their services.

Ultimately the onus lies on riders. Taking on an epic trip like Leh Ladakh one has to train themselves mentally and physically while also connecting with the motorcycle to understand its technicalities and how it behaves. Preparation and practice is very important similar to how athletes train themselves for the sport they undertake.

Lastly safety is paramount and there should be no compromise. Sadly we are a nation who doesn't give two hoots to safety. It will be a slow and painful change to reverse our mindset from apathy regarding safety. When I say safety is is not only about riding gears but also about how one behaves and takes precautions to be safe while riding.

[Jaguar]

What happened is sad and may the soul rest in peace.

When I read the article, one question came to my mind. How did the tour operator manage to contact a family friend instead of the wife or son of the deceased? Under nomal circumstance a person would have given the contact of his own family members instead of a friend, especially someone with a grown up son. Nobody knows what exactly happened and unless someone who directly knows the family can comment, we can't authenticate the news article.

I had seen the Ladakh perparation video by Fakira and he makes the ride looks easy, probably to lure more people. And that is his business. The onus on vetting an agency or operator lies in our hands, not with the authorities. If people don't support, the less competent ones will die on their own. But for that, we Indians have to come out of "kitna deti hai" attitude.