[hemanth.anand]

Covid-19 has just changed the entire world and how we see things. Both the companies that my wife and I work in have declared working from home many months ahead. My company has also reduced office space and even after Covid-19 (whenever that is), we will continue to work from home most of the days.

This meant our usage of the 450 (and other vehicles) has come down drastically as office rides was our scooter’s major duty. Just look at the graph below. We used to ride an average of 800-900 a month earlier but now, The scooter has covered just 414 kms in the last 8 months!


Usage dropped!

The last 8 months has not only been low in terms of usage, but it’s also a low for me in terms of the overall ownership experience. Some of the issues so far

The ride statistics not syncing issue

The ride statistics stopped syncing sometime in April. Whatever minimum usage that was made of the vehicle is not appearing on the App. I’d raised 2 to 3 tickets for the same issue and so far it is still WIP. In between some rides did appear(see my previous post), but after August 13th all the new rides are not shown on the app. Strangely, only the ODO meter reading was getting updated.


Ride not synced

The rides not syncing issue is not a new one really. Previously, it used to sync after a few days gap and everything used to be normal. But this time around, it has affected the home charging reimbursement too. The Apr-Jun reimbursement was matching with only the few rides that were synced. Jul-Sep reimbursement has not yet been credited so far. It also affected the data in the Ride log…Hoping to get a resolution at the earliest.

OTA update package not downloading

The 4.2.2 OTA update that was rolled out couldn’t download…previously too I had faced download issues but that was due to low signal strength in the basement. But once out in the open, it used to download and install without much hassles. But this update, even though small, wasn’t able to download. I raised a ticket for this last month. An executive came home to install manually but he just couldn’t connect his laptop to the scooter! So he had to take it to the service centre. I was told that the Dashboard Control Unit was replaced under warranty. The firmware update was installed after this replacement.

During this update I also told them about the boot light yellowing. It was replaced under warranty…this was the second time that that was replaced. seems like an inherent defect.

I also asked them to rectify the ride sync issue and then give back the vehicle. They told they don’t need the scooter for troubleshooting that issue and they can work on it remotely.

Unknown mysterious issue

Two days after the scooter was returned after replacement of DCU, I got a call from Ather and they told they need to arrange a pickup. When asked for the reason they told that they had forgotten something in the previous service and they’ll rectify that. I asked again for details and I was told that the service executive will tell me the details after work is done. After the work was done, I asked for details and All I got was that there was some issue with the charging circuit which has a probability of throwing up charger error code C014 . In 20 months of ownership I never had never faced any Cxxx or Mxxx errors. TBH, the answers I got were not very convincing. Somehow I feel that this was some kind of recall disguised under the word “Forgotten”

Anyway, this time again I told them that they can keep the vehicle with them till all issues were solved. Also asked them for the SIM swap. I was told that I must book and arrange separately and it is done at a different location. I was told it takes an hour to do the job and all the slots are completely booked for the next few days. Although I can’t believe there are so many vehicles in Bengaluru requiring a SIM swap…I’m not really interested in the SIM swap. I’m more interested in the 4G dongle so I’ll directly go for that whenever it is available.

More data sync issues

After the scooter came home two days ago, I had not checked the app. Yesterday when I checked I see that even the ODO and software version displayed on the dashboard and the app are not matching. also you can see the ride stats section doesn’t load at all. What’s more…The ODO reading has gone back!!! (compare previous image with the image below)


ODO mismatch and rides not displayed


OTA version mismatch

I’ve not raised a fresh ticket for this as the ride sync issues is still in work.

All these are neither performance issues nor is it dangerous. But it has certainly marred the overall good experience I’ve had so far. Even today, I take my vehicle out once in a while simply to enjoy the way it rides.

450Xupgrade

I had booked the 450X and was eligible for the Series 1. However as stated above, my usage has reduced drastically due to this Pandemic! Added to that all my lease benefits I have for this scooter (Ather One 360 subscription for entire lease term) will be lost with the upgrade. I’d have loved to have that translucent panels but other improvements didn’t really make sense to me from an upgrade point of view. If I didn't have the 450 with me already, it would’ve been different, but not now. So I decided not to buy the Series 1.

A friend wanted to buy the 450X and I transferred the order to him. I sent a mail to CS on 19th October. After some mail exchange formalities (and some public holidays), the transfer was finally completed yesterday afternoon.

[hemanth.anand]

An update after more than 8 months! The vehicle is parked in the dark almost all the times due to this pandemic situation


There's always Light at the end of the tunnel

My scooter touched the 10k kms mark on the ODO on 6th June 2021 (and as of today the ODO reading is 10060 kms)


10k on the ODO!

The usage of the scooter has dramatically reduced and the last 1k kms took 450days!! The average kms per day was around 25kms till Feb 2020 and now it’s 12kms and going down! So is the avg kms per month!


Usage!

The vehicle was been picked up on 9th July morning and the 10k Kms service will be performed. Mechanically, the scooter has no issues whatsoever and is running as it did on Day1. However, there are software bugs as I've written in my earlier posts.

My scooter had stopped receiving OTAs since quite some time. After a lot of troubleshooting exercises, I was told that the source of the issue must lie with the Vodafone 2G connectivity and the issue should get solved with the 4G upgrade. I had hence kept the ticket for this issue open till the 4G upgrade is done.

on 08th July evening, I got a call from Ather for the 4G module installation on my 450. As communicated by Ather earlier, I was informed again that this 4G module upgrade will cost me ₹2500+450tax=₹2950. I confirmed.

Since mine is on lease, as per the communication sent by Autovert, information about the 4G upgrade must be given to Autovert in advance so that they adjust this amount of ₹2950 towards the cashback/retention charges of the lease. I informed Autovert a day before and they acknowledged it too.

On 10th July, the scooter was returned back to me. I was informed that they've adjusted the belt tension and that's resulted in a minor change in the sound of the vehicle.

On the dashboard, I can see "4G" written beside the signal strength. The Earlier, the carrier was Vodafone and now the carrier is Jio 4G. Maps loads visibly faster and searching locations are way faster. However the signal strength is nothing great. Even in the open, the signal strength was nil!


no signal strength

The latest firmware has been installed during the service. but I guess it'll be flashed manually and not OTA. Whether the 4G has solved the issue of me not receiving an update OTA will only be known when Ather releases the next update.

My ride stats have not been in sync for a very long time now-since March 2020 to be correct. I'm told the 4G upgrade should help solve that issue too and I've to confirm that as well

[nitinkbhaskar]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

An update after more than 8 months! The vehicle is parked in the dark almost all the times due to this pandemic situation

There's always Light at the end of the tunnel

My scooter touched the 10k kms mark on the ODO on 6th June 2021 (and as of today the ODO reading is 10060 kms)

Wonderful set of updates hemanth.
Congratulations on hitting the 10k milestone. Though, I am sure you would have hit this much earlier if not for pandemic.

Just curious, if the app shows the number of charge cycles scooter has completed till date or number of units consumed ? Would love a comparison with ICE counterparts on running costs.

Also, I am baffled by the app sync issue. This should be Ather's forte and any goof up here directly impact the user experience. Hope this is resolved soon.

P.S : Wonderful tunnel pic. Loved it !!

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by nitinkbhaskar

Wonderful set of updates hemanth...

...P.S : Wonderful tunnel pic. Loved it !!

Thank you nitinbhaskar

Congratulations on hitting the 10k milestone. Though, I am sure you would have hit this much earlier if not for pandemic.

If not for the pandemic, the scooter would've easily crossed 20K by now

Just curious, if the app shows the number of charge cycles scooter has completed till date or number of units consumed ? Would love a comparison with ICE counterparts on running costs.

For now, the app doesn't show that, but the ride logs that users receive every month gives this information. Users are asking Ather for real time power consumption on the app. They said it might be available in the future.

Also, I am baffled by the app sync issue. This should be Ather's forte and any goof up here directly impact the user experience. Hope this is resolved soon.

Exactly my thoughts. Either nobody else had kept track of it or I'm unlucky, but this issue seems to be affecting only me. I don't know why it's taking so long.

No offence to anyone, but I have a general belief that Software engineers in our county are overpaid. This is just reinforcing that belief

[mugen_pinaki27]

Nice review, Sir. I test rode the Ather 450X and it was a sheer delight. The Sports mode was insanely fun and had me grinning madly inside my helmet. It reminded me of a scene from Johnny English Reborn where Rowan Atkinson drove an electric wheelchair at close to 100 kmph. Hoping that Ather gives its scooters a bit more range at least in the ball park of 150-200 km. That would really make it equivalent to its ICE counterparts and rake in profits for the company and for the environment.

[hemanth.anand]

I had always loved the way 450x looks in white. Compared to my white 450, the only visual difference is that the front handle shroud on the 450x is black. Just this one change makes the vehicle more sportier. Over the last weekend, got that changed in my 450 and this is how it looks now.



However the entire experience with the service centre for this exercise was unsatisfactory! Here's the long story...

Two weeks ago, when the 4g upgrade was done, I'd requested for this change too. But this shroud was out of stock and I was told to get it done later. A week later (Friday) I called the Customer Service(CS) number to check and the part was back in stock. I requested the executive to schedule a pick-up. He told me that there were no pickup slots that day and it'd be faster if I could drop it myself. I was informed that if I drop the vehicle myself on Friday evening itself or Saturday morning, I'd get it back by Saturday afternoon itself. Even though pickup and drop is not chargeable for me, because of my subscription plan, I decided to drop it myself as it'd speed up things (or so I thought). Also I get to ride the vehicle with this excuse (although it's just 8kms).

By 10am I dropped the vehicle at the service centre. The handover was smooth and in 10 minutes, i was out of there. I was told someone would call later when it's ready. Till 4pm I didn't get any call. I called the CS myself at 2pm 5pm and 6pm and all 3 times I was promised a callback from the service personnel immediately and the vehicle will be delivered the same day. But as it happened, neither did I get a callback, nor did I get the vehicle.

Then Sunday was a closed day. I then expected to get a call by Monday morning at least. But I only got a call by the service personnel at 3pm. He told that the vehicle is ready and could collect it anytime. I asked for a drop. I was told that if the vehicle is dropped by me, it should be picked up also by me. I was baffled by this strange condition! I then told him that I have a subscription plan and I wanted the vehicle to be dropped as I was entitled to it. He said that they can't do it like that. I told I'll take this up with the CS and didn't discuss it further with him. I called them and they told they'll arrange it and I'll get a call from the service guy. I sure got a call but he told that all drop slots were full for the day and it can be dropped only on Tuesday. I was totally disappointed but I agreed as I didn’t want to go and get it myself. Finally on Tuesday I got a call that the vehicle will be departing to my home. What was supposed to happen on Saturday afternoon finally happened the next Tuesday afternoon.

I was informed about the final billed amount. I asked them to send the card swiping machine as I wanted to use my credit card only and didn't want to pay using UPI or cash. He acknowledged and told that it'll be sent by default.

After an hour, the vehicle reached home. Guess what, the card swiping machine was not sent! This really put me off. I said I won't pay in any other mode! (If I hadn't asked for it before, I'd have paid in other mode). I was then given a payment link through which I could use my credit card (this was how payments used to happen earlier with Ather).

This was not the end...after I paid, I looked at the bill the next day and saw that there was a row item for labour charge! For my subscription plan, labour change for any service is not chargeable. My bad, I should've checked the bill before paying. I now have AGAIN contacted the CS and have raised a ticket and awaiting a refund.

TLDR: Previously my experiences with the services were all good but this was the opposite. With increased number of vehicles on the road, this is probably their turbulent stage in setting things right at the service centre. Alignment between the Ather teams need to improve a lot if customers are to be given a good service experience.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

My ride stats have not been in sync for a very long time now-since March 2020 to be correct. I'm told the 4G upgrade should help solve that issue too and I've to confirm that as well

An update here. The 4G hasn't helped to solve the ride stats issue. The ride from my home to the service centre and some other small ones around my home are not appearing in the app!

[hemanth.anand]

An update after a long time. The scooter has been running well without any mechanical issues whatsoever. However there were teething software issues- especially related to rides not syncing well.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

An update here. The 4G hasn't helped to solve the ride stats issue.

After me complaining again that the 4G hasn't helped, I received a call from Ather on October 20th that they will take my vehicle. I told them that they can pickup but I will only take it back when the issue is completely solved. The executive told me that higher management level people at Ather have been following with my scooter now and they'll make sure it is solved. They also told me that I'll get a loaner vehicle till the period my scooter is with them. On October 21st an Executive came and dropped a loaner scooter and picked up my scooter.

After 20 days, on November 10th, I got a call that my scooter is finally ready for delivery. I was told that the 4G module has been changed and now the issue should be solved. As from my past experiences I didn't want to believe that the problem is solved and I wanted to watch out for some days before reporting. Now after a month and around 300kms later, I can now say that the rides are syncing properly and I can see all the data on my phone. I just hope it stays this way.


Last week, I observed that the screen had some bubbles





I reported this and again on Thursday morning 10AM, my vehicle was taken to the service centre. by the time it was taken, the bubbles had increased



The vehilce was returned back yesterday with a new screen replaced under warranty.



The service experience was again nothing but mediocre. While booking the appointment I was told that the vehicle will be returned the same day. but after the vehicle reached the service centre, I had no update whatsoever from anybody. I called the customer care number at 5PM and I was told someone from the service team would call me in 30 mins but nobody called. I called again at 6:30PM and I got the same reply and the result was also same.

Again Yesterday evening till 5PM, I received no call and I had to call customer service again. A simple direct number to service team will be so much useful...calling customer service number again and again and explaining everything from scratch is so so frustrating. I gave the executive a piece of my mind and he told he'll make sure it is delivered at the earliest and finally yesterday at 7:30PM, My scooter was delivered.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

20 days sounds atrocious, even though they had the courtesy to provide a loaner vehicle. With Ather going slow and steady in terms of their approach, I would have expected better levels of service from them.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

20 days sounds atrocious, even though they had the courtesy to provide a loaner vehicle. With Ather going slow and steady in terms of their approach, I would have expected better levels of service from them.

True, but basically since they were not really sure what the source of the problem was and what the solution is, they took so much time.

This Software issue is something I had for more than a year now. In the beginning, they had once taken my scooter for couple of days and then multiple times they had tried to troubleshoot online but none had worked. It was a time when Vodafone shut down 3G services and our scooters were basically running on 2G. After multiple failed attempts they told me that the issue is due to 2G connectivity coupled with the my basement parking (where network is weak). They told that once 4G comes in, the problem should be solved and asked me to wait till then.

After 4G was installed in my scooter, my problem was still there. After trying online multiple times, they decided to take the scooter. Since they didn't know how long it might take, they gave me a loaner.

Finally they seem to have figured out and solved the issue.

[hemanth.anand]

5 months since I last updated this thread.

The positive things first...The Scooter ride statistics sync problem finally is solved. All my ride ride statistics appear correctly. However whenever I return back home and park the vehicle in the basement, that particular ride is not seen until I take out the vehicle the next day. This is attributed to the poor signal strength. I'm satisfied with this although I still don't understand why this problem wasn't there in the first year and why the ODO is updated but not the ride statistics.

March 2022 and my scooter completed 3 years. This meant that the scooter lease lease term was over. It was time to decide whether to retain the vehicle or return the vehicle. Quoting my own post from 2019 below...at that time I had decided to return the vehicle after 3 years.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Buying options

...took a look at the leasing policy and it looked interesting.
We can pay 45-75K down payment initially; based on the term (min 1 year to max 3 years) a monthly rent would be fixed. At the end of the term, I can return the vehicle and I'd get my full down payment back! I also have an option for upgrade or even exit the lease anytime after 1 year. If I exit after 1 year and return the vehicle, I'd get back 60% of my down payment. After 2 years, I'd get back 80%. If I decide to retain the vehicle, the down payment would not be given back and there would be an amount that I'd need to pay in addition to get the vehicle registered in my name.

The lease includes all the Insurance policies for the period, all periodic services including labour, Their flagship subscription plan Ather One, road side assistance. So it was effectively ZERO cost for the entire term. Over and above this, two other things that I thought about:
1. EV technology is still developing and going by the current automotive scene, EV is likely to see huge changes pretty soon. That would mean that after 3 years, vehicles will be much better and resale value of the current vehicles is expected to be poor (or unknown). I'll ignore Mahindra here as they have literally done a pathetic effort with their early player advantage IMO.
2. The battery will deteriorate no matter what. Ather provides 3 year warranty on the battery and say that after that, it may not deteriorate more than 70%. But again, it's not an ICE vehicle to just fill petrol and keep on running for many years. This will again have a negative impact on both the performance and resale value.

I worked these out and found that Leasing is the best way to go in this case. The final thought in my head before I decide to take the leasing was "When I am buying a different vehicle, why not buy it also in a different way". I took the number of the Leasing company Autovert and spoke to Mr.Uday at length and got all my questions cleared. He was very helpful and cleared all my questions to my full satisfaction. Their intuitive website helped me in quickly doing the math.
I decided to pay 65K and a 3k rent for 36 months. That would mean I'd effectively pay 108K over the entire term. Upon return I'd get back the 65K down payment. If I decide to retain the vehicle, I have to pay 10K. For a comparison, the OTR price of the 450 is 130K If I buy it with full payment. Insurance for 2nd and 3rd year would be 13k. Their Ather one subscription plan costing 700 per month (since I was a pre-booking customer this would be free for 1st year), would come to 17K for 2nd and 3rd year. Assuming a resale value of 50K, it would come down to 110k.
...

My calculation at the time of buying was like this.


Lease or Outright purchase? (at the time of buying)

Based on this the cost if I return the vehicle was lower and hence I had decided to return the vehicle after the lease term is complete. But then, unsurprisingly life is so uncertain...things didn't go as per plan!

• The complimentary free subscription for non-lease customers was extended for quite some time after one year. What was supposed to be a benefit for Lease customers was negated by this extension.
• After some time the subscription was made chargeable for non-lease customers but the prices itself were reduced. Again the cost benefit of lease reduced further.
• Subscription fee Refund: Due to discontinuation of 3G by Vodafone, we had to live with 2G connectivity till Ather upgraded 4G. for this Ather refunded subscription charges on pro rata basis. This was not passed on to us lease customers.
• Subscription fee Refund: In November 201 Ather announced that the Connect subscription is made complimentary to all till 15th May 2022 and they gave some refund of subscription charges on pro rata basis. Again, this was not passed on to us lease customers.
• The Pandemic - it reduced the vehicle usage drastically and the electricity consumption reimbursement was next to nothing. So the cost advantage in lease further came down.
• Insurance premium... I had estimated premium prices on the higher side (too high) and calculated the benefit. But the actual premiums were way lesser. So the advantage of going for lease was actually less.
• The resale value of my 450 is still very good. I had expected this to drop greatly as new vehicle options would arrive after 3 years. I was wrong as the EV space hasn't developed at a pace that I had expected.

The actual calculation ended up somewhat like this...


Lease or Outright purchase? (during Lease completion after 3 years)

The decision to buy on Lease didn't turn out to be profitable in the end. I took a hit of ~25k going for lease and not outright purchase. Buying it outright would've been a better idea

Further to these calculations, currently there are hardly any compelling vehicle options in the market either.

• The new 450x is not a big jump to warrant an upgrade from 450.
• The maturity of Ola S1 as a product is still low and has a long way from being fully developed. I almost got it but fortunately I cancelled my booking.
• Chetak and iQube are decent offerings but not so good to warrant returning my 450 and going for them.

So it was clear that retaining the vehicle is the correct way to go in the circumstances.

Autovert, which is the lease partner of Ather, was really proactive and they were in touch with me over email from as early as January. They communicated clearly about all the formalities for either Returning or Retaining the vehicle. After I told I'll retain the vehicle, they completed the activities quickly. By the first week of March, they had couriered all the documents over to me and also gave me the contact details of an agent who would complete the transfer formalities at the RTO. Of course I could do the formalities by myself but I just chose to get it done by that agent. He came home, collected all the documents and even within 2 weeks the vehicle transfer was complete. My experience with Autovert was wonderful throughout.

The completion of three years not only meant that the lease was over, it also meant that the vehicle and battery warranties are over too. My vehicle's battery condition is still good and I'm still getting the same range as I used to get earlier. Even other people who bought during the same time have had no issues with the battery. However some owners from 2018 and early 2019 have reported some issues with other components like the onboard charger, wiring harness etc. which was replaced in-warranty. Some of those are rather expensive components. Looking at those, an extended warranty program from Ather would've been nice. Many including me would definitely buy it.

With regards to the Subscriptions, My complementary Ather 360 plan (which included the electricity consumption refund) expired by End of March 2022. I've not renewed it till now. The connect subscription is complimentary till May 15 2022 and I've no intention of renewing after that. This is for two reasons...One I'm not really happy with the value I'm getting for the payment made (both Service and Connect Subcriptions) and two I'm ok to run it just as a scooter without any smart features.

Below is the usage record that I have maintained.


Usage after 3 years

The first year running was 8600kms. Second year it was 1200kms. Third year it was 1800 kms and the last two months after that it has been 1600 kms.

In other things, the scooter has been running more these days. with offices restarting partial to full capacity, our usage has also increased. it has crossed 13200 kms as of today and it has run around 2000kms in the last 2 months.
The saree guard and the Number plate holder screw regularly becomes loose and makes noise but tightening with Allen key sorts it out. the tyre pressure also frequently goes down. Apart from these two no major worries and the scooter is doing it's duties well. It is still a looker. Below is an image I took recently near my home


Bengaluru Blossom

[Red Liner]

Use loctite blue thread locker. Apply on screws, and tighten them back in. They will lock and won’t come lose again.

[ike]

Nice thread, enjoyed reading the updates. I took delivery of an Ather 450x day before. I'm looking for some insights into regenerative braking, how it works and whether there is anything in the settings that need to enabled for the same.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by ike

Nice thread, enjoyed reading the updates. I took delivery of an Ather 450x day before. I'm looking for some insights into regenerative braking, how it works and whether there is anything in the settings that need to enabled for the same.

There's no setting in the menu. It would hhave been good if there was adjustable levels of Regen like in some EVs.

Other details are mentioned in the below post of mine.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

It's an EV and it is all the more important to conserve energy and regenerate wherever possible. The scooter regenerates energy in two ways- 1. when we brake and 2. when the throttle is rotated in the opposite(forward) direction. This feels like we are using engine braking in our ICE cars. This forward rotation is only a small amount and initially I was not sure If I was even rotating it. The regen works only above 15kmph and only when the battery is less than 80%. The regen status is not displayed anywhere (like in the E2O) and the regeneration is a very small amount; almost ignore-able. Another point is that during regeneration by rotating the accelerator forward, pressing the right side brake lever is difficult. Either we have to apply the left side brake lever or let loose of the grip and re-position the right hand to normal position to apply the brakes. takes some time to get used to.

[superchamp]

Thank you for the detailed post. This gives a clear idea between lease and outright purchase. If you look at it, both will even out over a period of time.

[dzrebellz]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

5 months since I last updated this thread.

Apart from these two no major worries and the scooter is doing it's duties well. It is still a looker. Below is an image I took recently near my home

Attachment 2304807
Bengaluru Blossom

I decided to return my Ather after the lease period.
I don’t feel that it is non-profitable.
For one the usage was 30100km
Secondly, My vehicle has had a recurrent niggle from the start of ownership. The wheels were always locked as though the vehicle was ridden throughout with the brakes held(not the case). Multiple replacement of brake pad, assembly under warranty did not help.
Situation was so severe that you could not push the vehicle smoothly even with power off.
Just a freak defect which i am putting down to 1st Batch niggles.

Even so, I would have retained if not for the third and most important factor that I am moving abroad shortly.

Overall, a good experience with Ather and Autovert. Both were mega responsive and helped with service and replacement even in the middle of the lockdowns.