[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

There was nothing on the road except very mild dew.

I think that might be enough in some cases... Questionable patch of tarmac + dew + lean.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I'm frankly clueless as to what else i can do now...

Maybe next time don't press the 'clutch' and try to downshift before a corner on an Activa

(Sorry... that's the only other thing i could think of!)

[coolmind]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Had a Bullet 500. Sold the bike since I wasn't using it much. Bought an Aprillia SR-150, used it for one year 2000km and sold it off, reason- Couldn't ride it with confidence even when it had a nice punchy motor with disc brakes. With wife as pillion it was getting even more difficult to balance in the same situation where I used to ride the Bullet comfortably. My wife used to always say that I rode the scooter like a newbie (been riding bikes since 18 years). Post one year, happily sold the scoot and bought a Himalayan and trust me, I never felt more happy and swore never to buy a scoot.

Thanks a lot rakesh.
I was used to Apache(sold off recently) and was planning to shift a scooter for daily commute so that it can be shared by my wife as well.
But after reading your post, I felt like seeing the future. So now I want to drop my idea and go for buying a regular bike.

[terra85]

I am not saying am the most experienced, however I feel the position you sit in a scooter differs from a bike. In a bike you can't move much, however in a scooter you tend to slide forward which may affect the balance. I try to sit further back to help balance the scooter. Do please correct me if I am wrong here.

[ashwinprakas]

Contrary to popular belief a scooter is the faster machine when it comes to technical sections on tarmac which is predominantly due to its lower center gravity.

A friend from Vietnam who participated in Motorcycle Gymkhana events on his Monster would tell me of how guys on under-bones were able to run circles around him on the track in spite of his highway superiority, due the under-bones having the advantage of lower CG which enables them to be pushed harder in tight corners.

I believe to have shared a tale of how an enthusiast on a Yamaha Fascino left the bigger motorcycles including Dukes and a FZ25 in the dust on the tighter corners of Valparai.

As for the OP's case, presuming that the motorcycle in question was in top mechanical condition and all road conditions were ideal.

The reason for the crash IMHO is due to the OP disturbing the CG of the motorcycle by shifting into the corner which is ideally what a motorcyclist whose used to riding a front heavy motorcycle does.

This takes the CG of the motorcycle farther away from the wheels resulting in a washout.

On a scooter rather than leaning into the corner i.e shifting weight inward, you should counter-lean shifting weight to the outside which pushes the motorcycle down keeping the CG low down.

Same principle applies to commuter motorcycles(cradles), to go faster around a corner you need to counter weigh rather than lean into the corner. A difference in both techniques can be observed by comparing Marc Marquez and Mick Doohan taking the same corner.



Though Keith Code in his book Twist of the Wrist 2 argues that peg-weighing is an ineffective form to steer, in more modern time it is in effect what people are doing when they 'Butt Steer', though not efficient on its own when it comes to steering, it helps keep the rubber side down.

As for avoiding such mishaps it would be better to either stick with the type of motorcycle one is used to riding or ride as neutrally and conservatively as possible.

Do educate me if you know better as I'm not a physicist and what I know is from my own experience riding various motorcycles and reading quite a bit about motorcycle riding.

Cheers,
A.P.

[shankarbn]

Hitanshu, I constantly switch between my bajaj chetak, karizma and cbr 250r and I know what the problem is - weight of the activa and weight distribution. I push them both to the limit when I have a chance.. Below are some salient facts

1. If I turn or brake on my bajaj chetak like I turn my CBR, I will die.
2. If I turn or brake on my CBR like I turn my bajaj chetak, I will die.

This is simply because how the center of gravity and weight distribution both of which are better on the CBR. Of course, better grip, ABS, bigger wheels etc etc etc have a role to play but you're being thrown off (pun not intended) because of the weight distribution.

Solution : Ride activa more, just not in limp mode or expecting it to behave like your fancy duke 390 or ninja zx14r

[Gansan]

It can be unnerving. One never remembers what exactly happened before a fall, which will be quite sudden. I hope the little one got away with minor scratches. Did you give him a TT shot? Even though he would have received it during his vaccination schedule, it is better to give it. Except if the last shot was within six months, of course.

I ride borrowed scooters sometimes, usually a Suzuki Access. Contrary to popular notion, gearless scooters are not inherently unstable, unlike the old Chetaks. I have removed both hands and observed the Access maintain a perfect straight line, when I was checking my sister-in-law's scooter for fork bend.

The trick while riding scooters is not to lean much in to corners. The cross section of their tyres is flatter, more like a car tyre, and not like a bike tyre. A little bit of leaning helps, but in the opposite direction to the corner being taken, not in the same direction. And don't apply brakes while in to the turn. Slow down sufficiently before the turn.

[Romins]

If you guys think, scooters are not capable, visit some parts of Bangalore where those kids do all kinds of stunts with a Dio or Kinetic - Rose Garden road in
Jayanagar for starters.

Personally, I wouldn't dare to ride a scooter beyond 50kmph, because 3 of my 5 motorcycle accidents in the past were involved a scooter.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Contrary to popular belief a scooter is the faster machine when it comes to technical sections on tarmac which is predominantly due to its lower center gravity.

I guess the next season of MotoGP should have riders riding Yamaha Fascimo, Honda Activa, Aprilla SR150 & Suzuki Burgman on the technical tracks then.

[ACM]

1) Yes Scooters are inherently more risky to drive and yes bigger bikes cause us to loose the fine art of not over doing it. We loose sensitivity to the small warning signals due to an overdose of signals on an Activa. (Relatively)

2) I had something similar (scooter and skidding part only) happen to me on a Kinetic Honda years back moving from a RX100 but then the fault was a combo of Rains and misjudged speed due to inexperience with using an helmet.

3) The tyre pressure may not have be correct even if tyre and bike maintenance was good?

4) Something slippery on the road that you missed? I have been able to recover and not fall from sure crash situations but have fallen once at slow speed on a Bike and never figured why it happened.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I guess the next season of MotoGP should have riders riding Yamaha Fascimo, Honda Activa, Aprilla SR150 & Suzuki Burgman on the technical tracks then.

This is an on-board comparison video of a Scooter vs a Duke 390 on a Gymkhana Technical Track.

Scooter vs Big Bikes

The scooter finished before the 390.

Here's another video of a scooter;

Yamaha Scooter ride like hell in Gymkhana Course

A scooter being faster on a tighter technical track is simply due to physics favoring its design, lower CG, smaller wheels etc. which more or less is commonsense for a motorcyclist having considerable experience riding a scooter.

P.S. In the second video do observe his style of lean mid corner.

[nitro.1000bhp]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Hello dear BHPians,

On Monday morning after almost 1.2 L km and 18 years of riding, I finally fell. On an Activa in Havelock island of the Andamans. This was on a down sloping right handed curve..............

Sounds like you lost the front. A sloping turn means it had negative camber.. so the tyre was on the edge and not the meaty part. Always slow down for a negative camber corner which is quite the opposite of a banked corner where one can usually carry more speed.

[MaheshY1]

Phamilyman, I hope you and your kid are okay.

@AP, I was just wondering why you are out of the action.

Why you should hear me out:

I have clocked >30000 clicks on an Activa and kissed mother earth at least 5 times. Twice at 70km/h. I've also covered ~18k on the Navi and fallen only once while attempting to overtake a careless Activa rider who decided to take it off-road to avoid the traffic. I was already riding in the gravel at 10km/h and hit the front brake while trying to steer away. The Ceat Gripps are just so confidence-inspiring that it's difficult to resist the urge to hit the dirt.

In short, I know what relocating the fuel tank to where it belongs can do to the dynamics. The Navi behaves like a motorcycle even though it shares its frame, powertrain, and drivetrain with a scooter.

Here are my $2.

I could be wrong but Phamilyman, you can see which situation applies.

1. Refinement

Since Hondas are super refined, it's sometimes difficult to gauge how fast you're going by the vibrations alone. So we end up going faster on smoother vehicles especially if we're used to riding something powerful.

2. Weight

Scooters have a heavy behind. This makes it very difficult to transfer the weight to the front. Especially coz even if you do apply the front brakes, it'll still have more weight on the rear end. That makes it very important to use the rear brakes as that has a stronger grip than the front.

Because of that rear bias, it's also near impossible to overwhelm the rear tire with so few horses even on gravely surfaces.

3. Wheels

Smaller, 10-inch wheels are also easily unsettled by even minor undulations. A small rough patch can also catch you off guard on an Activa.

4. Suspension

The front suspension on the Activa, if I'm not wrong, is of the trailing arm variety. What I'm sure of is that it doesn't compress when you apply the front brakes. Instead, it EXPANDS. It's a scary feeling if that happens when you're counting on it.

5. Gravel

You could rule this out but, even a fist full of gravel can bring us down on an Activa with J-rated tires.

6. Handlebar

If you're tall, it's possible that the steering may have hit your knee while turning. It usually happens when you're riding at slow speeds and not counter-steering.

7. Brake Lockup

You can also lose the scooter front underneath you if either of the 2 brakes locked up while leaning. If you ended up in 'supermoto' position before the fall, then it could mean that you may have locked up the rear while attempting to steer.

As far as hanging off is concerned, I find it extremely difficult to do that without a fuel tank and in a feet-forward position. However, you can still move your upper body to help minimize the lean angle. (e.g. keeping your head where the inside mirror would be.)

[Sebring]

From a car owner perspective, I'm of the opinion that Activa is the most dangerous two-wheeler on the road, and something to stay clear of. I've had three hits by guys who just lost control and just slammed into me at various speeds. So I see an Activa anywhere near me, and there are lots, I'm just extra cautious.


On the flip side, we do have one at home. It is super refined even after 16 years and I certainly agree that one can't gauge how fast the speed is. Given that the bulk of the weight is at the back Honda should have discs at the back - than at the front. The suspension on the 5G is trailing arm and if they have telescopic, that should help a lot in the handling department (customers have demanded this for long, but Honda doesn't budge). I also have a problem with the extra bright LED on the 5G model, which blinds when incoming, but that's another discussion.

[PrasannaDhana]

To this day, I am pretty scared when I am riding scooters. This is totally opposite style of riding when compared to all time T.W.O kind of riding on my motorcycles.

Main reason being, I am used to very active left arm, left foot (clutch and gear) and right foot (brakes) and the absence of that activity makes me nervous while riding scooters. And that riding position- upright and having nothing for legs to hug while riding is a torture to me.

[Sheel]

@ashwin - You have posted videos where the rider on the scooter is *SUPERIOR* and not the scooter.

@Gandhi Ji - It just happened, move on . It was the scooter's dynamics at fault, which, sometimes few riders can't come to terms at, and believe me nothing wrong in that.

OT - I have grown up riding Chetak/NV 150/Select and always preferred the 4S Champion/CD-100 over them. No wonder got myself an RX back then. Still ride an activa [the 2nd one] for grocery runs and it still is the same POS.