[rakesh_r]

If RE manages to bring a 650 or more version of the Himalayan, It would solve most of the requirements for the Indian Junta. My thoughts, If you have a fat wallet, a multicylinder high capacity motorcycle definitely makes sense. For people with a limited budget, a min 250cc Motorcycle would suffice to fulfill the touring requirements in India.

[Jacob1000]

Adding to the valid points already stated by the seasoned riders here, such as individual preferences, desires, what you'll do with it, where do you want to go with it etc etc. I would say that the bike should be one that makes you ride more and not just sit in the garage looking pretty.

Although I voted for the medium capacity bikes for the polls, I love my current bike, which is a 2018 Kawasaki Ninja 1000, bought specifically because I wanted to tour on tarmac.

Yes it gets hot in peak traffic and you feel bad when the radiator fan keeps cutting in frequently, but when it does come in its element (read highways) then I honestly don't think there's any other machine within my "aukaad" that'll make me have a smile plastered on my face for continuous 850+ Kms.

You can probably do any ride for any amount of Kms in whatever wheels you like. But for me a ride shouldn't feel like a difficult task that just needs to be done with. I need to enjoy the ride, for which the bike needs to be unstressed (bigger engine capacity and management). I need to be able to trust the bike (electronics package for minor mistakes on my part of which there would be many over a good distance), kick ass brakes, good headlights, decent tank range and ergos to reduce rider fatigue.

At the time all my requirements were being met by the Ninja 1k. Added panniers systems were a bonus with a host of other features.

Among the big bikes here, if there are people who wouldn't want an adv tourer, you still have the options such as the Ninja 1000, the GSX 1000F and the Ducati Supersport that offer the real world practicality you would want with the capability to quench your need for speed.

Coming to the smaller bikes, I feel the dominar would suit a lot of bills. I mean a reliable enough bike with all the tech you need. Don't know why it isn't more successful.

PS - hearing an in-line 4's burbling soundtrack through the exhausts inside a tunnel or while rev matching on downshifts is something that's an instant stress buster for me irrespective of the number of Kms I've ridden. Can't see that happening on a small bike.

[arulpeem]

I have been riding now for the last 35 years almost. And quite a lot of long distance rides too.
I never owned a small capacity bike but for borrowing friends bikes for short rides and therefore I can not say much about them.
My first bike was an RD350 which i used for about 90,000 Kms which included many long distance trips including a trip in the Himalayas in 1991. Nothing in India could match it for touring those days.

Then I bought an AVL engine Thunderbird in 2003 which I sill have, but I did not do any long distance trips.
4 years back I got a Continental GT and had done quite a few trips across South India. I love the torque it has and I never had any problems in the posture. After 600Km of riding in a day I did not have any issue at all. I was so happy with it.
Then came the Himalayan 2 years back that I took to Leh at the first opportunity which I have used for a other long distance trips too. The suspension and geometry was so fantastic that it simply glided over all the bad roads or no roads that we came across in the Ladak region. But it was definitely under powered by at least 10 HP

In 2017 beginning I had borrowed my friend's Bonnie to go to Hasanur. Till then i was of the impression that a 400 or 535 CC single is more than enough for touring. But that trip changed my mind completely. Having the extra power and torque makes cruising and overtaking so easy,effortless and safe too. The braking is also much more easier. By the end of the trip I was fully convinced that a bigger bike is the best.So I decided to invest in a bigger capacity bike ranging from 650 to 800 CC. The Himalayan had convinced me that adventure bike format with the long travel suspension and the comfortable geometry is the best of the lot to tour in India for me. So I was looking for one within my budget and the two choices I had were Versys 650 or a second hand Tiger 800 XC. I settled for the Tiger since one was available and since then I have been happily riding it.

[MaheshY1]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

They should have made Navi with a collapsible seat and handle bar, so that it can be almost flat-packed and carried in another vehicle while touring.

Sarcasm aside, I did think of that. I did look at the dimensions to see if the Navi can be carried on a Multix. With its rear seat folded, the numbers did align favorably. But, I'd have to leave the loading door open. There wouldn't be any weight on it if the Navi were on the center stand but it'd have to stay open to accommodate the Navis length.

I thought of taking off the doors of the Multix and adding autocross tires. I just couldn't find those tires in suitable size.

It was nothing more than wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Ultimately the best bike for touring is the one that is parked in your garage.

That's exactly what I'm saying. If I want to go touring, I'm not going to wait until my pockets are deep enough to touch my ankles. I'll do it with whatever I have and learn a thing or two in the process. That way, I'll have fewer things left to learn when I move up the food chain.

[quote=CrAzY dRiVeR;4503277]
Infact, a couple of days back I had this discussion with GTO about how it was not possible to create a '2018 Enthusiasts Motorcycle' thread like we did for cars - just because every single motorcycle above the commuter segment is engineered for the enthusiast - one way or the other - be it onroad, offroad, dual purpose, touring, track and what not!
[quote]

Why limit it to enthusiasts bikes? We don't discriminate like this among cars. Our buddy GTO himself agrees that you can have a lot of fun in the K10. I'm with him 100%. Even though the K10 is as commuter-ish as it gets.

Sure if you view the whole journey as a commute, if the destination is everything

I did my office hours as usual. After work, I started my ride to Mandi. I had a meal there, booked the cheapest hotel I could find with clean sheets and hot water, woke up the next day, waited for the fog to clear, and started my descent. Was home for weekend with family.

The destination means nothing to me. I pick the roads. My journey is my destination.

But then - if the ride is as important as the destination - you know why its not a popular choice anymore.

I never said small is better than big. It depends on the riders preference and the terrain you're about to experience. A powerful bike can turn the most boring expressways into exciting. And if expressway is all that's on the agenda, I too would prefer a powerful bike.

just may be consider the aspect that taming a big beast could also be one of the aspects that make it fun.

I agree. That can be fun too. But I think moving up the chain one step at a time is the best approach. That's why I bought the SF FI. This is going to be my track bike. (This statement might start another debate) until I can learn to drag it's pegs, I don't want to move up. First, I want to focus on line, body position, braking, steering, etc. before I start focusing on throttle control.

If kartikeya singhee chose the Gixxer over the R3 for one breakfast ride to lavasa, then it must be something. If he needs leathers to fully exploit the Gixxer on lavasa roads, then there's plenty in the bike for a noob like me to grasp before moving to a bigger machine.

This is also my first bike with FI and my first vehicle with ABS. I want to trust the electronics but they have to earn that trust and they're not off to a good start. I've already seen the ABS's tantrums... Twice.

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

Can you tour on mopeds, scooters and commuters like the venerable CT100B ? : Yes
Are these the best machines to tour on ? : No

That's what I'm saying. They're not the best, but for some riders, depending on their skills and/or budget and/or needs, they're adequate.

Originally Posted by 46TheDoctor

Having owned bikes from all the three categories here, i would like to chip in my opinion!

Bikes owned till date:
1. First generation CBZ - 150 cc - did 45k kilometers before i sold it.
2. Ninja 650 - 650 cc - did 3k kilometers before I sold it.
3. Ninja ZX 14R - 1441 cc - my current bike, have done 20k km in 2.5 years now.

With my experience i would like to say that if you have budget constraints to buy and maintain a big bike, medium bikes like versys 650, v-strome 650 are the best bet as they provide everything you NEED for the touring. But, the thing with the biking is that you are never in a NEED to ride bike to far away destinations as you can always use a car or other modes of transportation which are far more comfortable and safer. The riding is all about your DESIRES and this is where the big bikes step in!

20k on the 14R? WOW! It's really nice to hear that some people are actually using their big bikes.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

But what if we have more then one bike parked in the garage??


I have a versys 650 and g310GS to go to and depending on the type/terrain/duration,nature of the ride, i pick the bike. For daily commuting, short breakfast rides through B & C class roads, or even single day outings, baby GS works best, while for longer multi-day rides the V650 is the goto bike.

However, Would like to share a comparative experience here. A few months back, we did a short half day ride on Versys 650 starting from Bangalore > denkanikottai > Panchpalli reservoir > bettamugilalam >denkanikottai>bangalore. The ride was fun but enroute, we encountered some offroad trails on hilly region with loose stones and gravel and maneuvering the versys for that stretch was "heart in mouth" situation where we could drop the bike anytime. Dual sport tyres would have helped, but the weight of the bike is too much for an average built person.

A few weeks later, we did the exact same route on the baby GS and that offroad section felt like a walk in the park. Not just that, the entire ride felt much more pleasant, in control and if i was to really choose the ride i enjoyed most, it would be with the baby GS.

So, size does matter in touring (for or against is your pick and may not get a conclusion).Most manufacturers across the world have realised this are in the processes of targetting this new segment which is 300 to 500cc light weight touring bike. We already have Versys 300X, G310 Gs, Crf 250, Benalli Trk 251 proposed ktm 390 adv, and more will follow.



Mods: for the poll, 400 to 800 is vast. Could it be broken in to 300 to 500 and 500 to 800cc?

That's pretty much what I experienced when comparing Himalayan and impulse. So I sacrificed the higher cruise speed for confidence the impulse gives me in rough spots.

Technology, I can make peace with. It's the weight, I can't stand.

Originally Posted by 0xTKB

Based on Indian roads, my choice would be small (<400 cc). Although if given, I'd go for a twin cylinder config anyday over a single one. Having ridden CBR250R for 7 years, I can say that this is the perfect tourer for India. Here are the reasons behind this :-

• Indian roads aren't built for bigger bikes. Even a 4-lane road is poorly levelled.
• Indian traffic manners are also not for a bigger bike. People start tailgating you if you overtake them on your bike.
• A bigger bike is is an attention magnet. The less attention you get by people in India, the more safe you are.
• 25 BHP is more than enough power to cruise on 100-120 kmph all day long.
• A small bike has very less maintenance than a bigger bike. The yearly service bill for a CBR250R is just Rs. 3500. That equates to around Rs. 10 per day.
• Spare parts are readily available and are inexpensive as compared to bigger bike. For eg, the chain set of CBR250R is of Rs. 1500-1600 whereas the chainset of Kawasaki Ninja 400 and 650 is around 12000-15000.
• They have good fuel efficiency too. I get consistent 30 kmpl no matter how hard I ride it.

Exactly. Out of all the bikes you have at your disposal, you pick the one that best suits the terrain you're about to brave.

Didn't vote. I'm not against power or displacement. But I have some serious beef with weight. The rally is not my do-it-all favorite because it's a 250cc. It's my preferred bike because it has the ground clearance, suspension, adequate power, and light weight. In fact I'm making a compromise in the power department.

Give me 200hp in 150kg and I'll take it. But that just doesn't happen.

[bigron]

@ Mahesh - The Ducati Panigale V4 does about 214 hp at about 175 kg dry weight. It is the reigning king of the hill. So yes, it does happen.

[46TheDoctor]

Just looking at the weight doesnt give the whole picture. My 14R is much heavier than my previous generation ninja 650, but it feels equally nimble if not better, probably due to lower centre of gravity.
Also, there are a lot of big bikes which weigh around the same as medium tourer bikes, in some cases they are even lighter like Tuono V4, ducati hyperstrada, etc. Also, the bikes like multistrada 1200s/1260s feel as nimble as the versys 650 and v-strom 650 despite being heavier on paper, so some of the big bikes are not that much of a compromise compared to medium size tourers when it comes to nimbleness. Just like i said in my previous post, if you have the financial flexibility to acquire and maintain the big bikes (purchase and upkeep cost is 2-3 times that of medium bikes) they are a no brainer for a rider who has good riding experience and self restraint!

The only reason where i will go for small or medium bike is when it comes to offroading where you dont need that much of power and very low weight is preffered.

[MaheshY1]

Originally Posted by bigron

@ Mahesh - The Ducati Panigale V4 does about 214 hp at about 175 kg dry weight. It is the reigning king of the hill. So yes, it does happen.

Are we still talking about touring? A supersport? For touring? In India?
Oh! I get it. You must be joking.

And a few other points I consider before making a purchase:

- Heat. Like I said before if I can't commute on it, I'm not buying it.

- Value. That's why I'd prefer the RTR 200 FI/ABS over CBR 250. Coz it does 80-90% of what I'd do with the Honda at 60% of the cost.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by hema4saran

I got a soft corner for the Jawa.

I hope you get that Jawa, Good luck. Yesterday I happened to see a Yezdi, very well maintained in a cream color with blue pinstripe , amazing.

Originally Posted by arulpeem

My first bike was an RD350 which i used for about 90,000 Kms which included many long distance trips including a trip in the Himalayas in 1991. Nothing in India could match it for touring those days.

In 2017 beginning I had borrowed my friend's Bonnie to go to Hasanur. Till then i was of the impression that a 400 or 535 CC single is more than enough for touring. But that trip changed my mind completely. Having the extra power and torque makes cruising and overtaking so easy,effortless and safe too. The braking is also much more easier. By the end of the trip I was fully convinced that a bigger bike is the best.So I decided to invest in a bigger capacity bike ranging from 650 to 800 CC. The Himalayan had convinced me that adventure bike format with the long travel suspension and the comfortable geometry is the best of the lot to tour in India for me. So I was looking for one within my budget and the two choices I had were Versys 650 or a second hand Tiger 800 XC. I settled for the Tiger since one was available and since then I have been happily riding it.

Effortless cruising, For those who say there aren't enough roads in India for big bikes, this is the aspect that most people do not understand unless they experience it. It may not be possible to do 200KMPH on the road, but its good to know that a blip on the throttle puts you ahead of slower traffic.

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Sarcasm aside, I did think of that. I did look at the dimensions to see if the Navi can be carried on a Multix. With its rear seat folded, the numbers did align favorably. But, I'd have to leave the loading door open. There wouldn't be any weight on it if the Navi were on the center stand but it'd have to stay open to accommodate the Navis length.

I thought of taking off the doors of the Multix and adding autocross tires. I just couldn't find those tires in suitable size.

It was nothing more than wishful thinking.

Maybe you can fabricate a device much like a bicycle mount but a lot stronger and bolt the front fork of Navi to the floor of multix, may save some length as well since the front wheel has to come off temporarily.

Multix is an interesting vehicle like the John Deere Gator, how is it by the way?

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Why limit it to enthusiasts bikes? We don't discriminate like this among cars. Our buddy GTO himself agrees that you can have a lot of fun in the K10. I'm with him 100%. Even though the K10 is as commuter-ish as it gets.

Another thread like this may very well be on its way about cars

Lets talk about RX100, its a mighty fun bike to ride as many will agree. Is it an ideal touring bike? Alto K10 then is a similar case.

[eltoro]

I own a Tiger Explorer, Himalayan and an old CI Bullet as well. All three are totally different beasts but have found that the Himalayan is the most proficient of them all when it comes to riding on the mountains due to its light weight.
As mentioned by multiple people in earlier posts, the Himalayan is no match for bigger bikes on the plains , however having said that, riding at 100 kmph+ on Indian highways increases the risk of accidents exponentially and it really doesn't matter if you have a Tiger, GS, Versys or a Himalayan when it comes to the time taken for getting from source to destination where the distance is a few 100 kms. The differentiating factor however is the comfort and one ends up much less tired while riding any of the big bikes compared to the Himalayan.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

CT100B is a 100CC, 8PS motorcycle with a manufacturer claimed top speed of 90kmph. If you think it can hold its own on the highways - I have no idea what highways you ride on Sir. But that's definitely not the kind of highways i have experienced in past decade in India where cruising at 120-130 is a walk in the park if you have a decently powerful motorcycle.

You're right.

And given a fixed route of highways containing only the type you speak of then it is certain that better motorcycles would out pace me without breaking a sweat, even with less experienced riders on board.

But frankly I'm yet to come across a decent stretch where I can clock 500 km's in 5 hours at my usual(I say usual because I've hit close to 100 kmph average speeds on 800 km's runs a couple of times during the honeymoon phase) pace on the P220, because even the best of roads when mapping longer distances report an average speed of around 60~70 kmph.

This is merely a fact when dealing with different scales.

Hence why its better to leave it to the reader to come to his/her own conclusions in the end.

Sorry but any data behind your assumption ?

Data is limited to KL,TN and KA roads, but after realizing that I take just about the same time to cover interstate commutes on a 220cc and a 100cc motorcycle after the initial honeymoon phase with the 220cc motorcycle, I got curious and about the time I went back to 100cc's I hooked up my cyclocomputer to both motorcycles and as expected the 220cc did clock a higher top speed but the average speed on the 100cc was higher.

My understanding is that though the 220cc motorcycle can perform brilliantly on limited tracks, when it comes to intersections, 2 lanes, crowded roads, broken roads etc. the 100cc motorcycle is at an advantage as it can maintain a steady speed whereas with the 220cc motorcycle there's a lot of brisk acceleration and deceleration.

Now I'm not saying that if I had a mission in mind to clock a higher average then I'd not be able to do so on the 220cc motorcycle, but all that I'm saying is that it would be at the cost of my comfort and safety.

Irrespective of the motorcycle at hand I'm not comfortable maintaining steady speeds north of an indicated 100 kmph unless I'm driving. Because at 130 kmph I can avoid the usual dangers of Indian highways on a motorcycle but my response rate dwindles as my saddle time goes up.

This has more to do with mental fatigue than physical fatigue.

Because one could say that I could drop saddle time by maintaining higher speeds but as the speeds go up so does the mental strain in multiples.

And as seasoned riders would concur, hauling ass over longer distances has more to do with the mind than the body, because of the standby state of the mind for lack of a better word.

When you're in standby mode, anything north of 100 kmph is a potential risk and so you would come out of it(That is, if you know better), but when you're out of the standby mode your mental faculties get used up at a speedy rate which calls for more frequent breaks(Again if you know better), then more frequent breaks translate to even more frequent breaks and as you spend more time on the road it again impacts your mental faculties.

Now this is one of those things that you either get or you don't, reason for me saying that is I frequently go on shorter runs with riders who've been riding way before me and are better skilled but since they lack frequent cross country experience, they're more into riding at higher speeds and as a result they wear out sooner than later and given the condition of roads we ride in, maintaining a 60 kmph steady average would get you home sooner than peaking out at 150kmph on several stretches and then taking breaks for several minutes to recover.

Because going by simple math a 30 min's break translates to 30 km's more on the highways which usually only becomes obvious nearing sundown, a time around which irrespective of the motorcycle you're riding your average speeds plummet.

On the really short runs, they reach the destination sooner than me but as the distance and variables go up the tables always seem to turn in my favor, provided I ride at my pace and not theirs.

Sorry for lecturing on riding styles, thought I'd just put it out there.

And - Highest selling ADV bikes across the world are not your middle weight 800CC ones - they are the likes of BMW R1200GS & Ducati Multistrada 1260S.

I would not side with such metrics when determining the potential of a machine because going by numbers the Activa should be the better option among scooters and as anyone who've put some miles on scooters know that it simply is not.

Originally Posted by octane1002

CT100B a Screamer?!In what sense?Noisy at (not-so-high)speeds be more like it perhaps?(Feel sorry for the RDs/RXs/KBs/Shoguns that might be turning in their graves on this night.)

The reference was in fact related to the motorcycle, in motorcycle slang a screamer is a short stroke machine and a thumper is a long stroke machine.

With a bore*stroke configuration of 53*45 the CT100B is a short stroke, hence a screamer.

I don't use the term thumper anymore as it can confuse other users on international forums as there they see anything running off a single cylinder as a thumper irrespective of bore*stroke characteristics.

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Yo! AP, are we brothers?

Brothers of the Highway, Children of the Wind!

Yes. A big bike will be faster and more stable.

Almost missed this, smaller motorcycles sucks on open highways prone to crosswinds, and when I say crosswinds I'm talking about AP Crosswinds, cause nothing comes close to them in my limited experience.

But this seems to be common for sportbikes as well, the only exception being Bullet's due to their weight of close to 200 kg's.

But, eventually, it all boils down to 80-120 (depending on your experience) even on the smoothest of highways - IF - you intend to complete your cross-country run. As AP mentioned, mental fatigue will get to you first. If you're riding fast, then you'll have to maintain a safe distance of say 2-3 seconds for the reaction time between you and the potential threat. Drop it to 1-2 seconds and you'll have to stay much more alert. Do that and kiss your chance to even experience physical fatigue. A relaxed pace gives you a better chance to react if, say, a cow or a dog jumps in your way. Or a pothole decides to surprise you. At night, your headlights can only help you see so far.

The above paragraph perfectly sums up my thought process on the highways.

You should totally take stops but while your ass is feeling fresh, I'd suggest you cover as much ground as possible before the soreness kicks in.

Truer words have never been said when it comes to touring on motorcycles.

There is more at stake than being concerned about a hurting butt, because a hurting butt is the least of your worries all things considered, and with enough saddle time your mind simply adapts by ignoring it, similar to how it ignores your nose.

you'll break the rhythm and you'll want to stop more often.

Again true, as we are creatures of habit the quality of the entire ride depends on the distance you've covered before your first and subsequent breaks.

Even on my Navi at 70km/h, I'm never the slowest on NH8.

Same goes for every NH I've ridden the CT100B to date with the exception of a very few expressways up north, even on which I was still riding above the required speed posted with ample room for overtakes, though the need seldom arose.

Even on the best of roads the CT100B is a lot faster than the lowest of commuters namely public transport and interstate truckers.

Originally Posted by Sheel

I have found them to be as reliable as any FI out there, even the open loop FI's.

This being the key point.

Never said otherwise, just said that whatever issues are present are universal and is not restricted to one particular brand/type of motorcycles.

I'd not side with a motorcycle with FI simply because it is never 100% fail safe.

Of course in a perfect world and with a perfect body, I would love to tour on the HP4 .

Who wouldn't!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Why limit it to enthusiasts bikes? We don't discriminate like this among cars. Our buddy GTO himself agrees that you can have a lot of fun in the K10. I'm with him 100%. Even though the K10 is as commuter-ish as it gets.

You got it completely opposite.

First of all - K10 is not as commuterish as it gets! There is a reason why Alto K10 is mentioned in the Enthusiast thread and not the regular Alto 800 - the reason being that K10 engine which gives it an excellent power to weight ratio. Ask GTO which one he would pick for a drive - the 800 or K10 and you'll know.

Same thing with cars higher up the price bracket - Because cars are built for a lot of other requirements in addition to fun - luxury, backseat comfort, features and lot more. Many cars are even built around the passengers, not the driver. This necessitates such a thread.

When it comes to bikes, it is much harder to draw a differentiation. You can argue that the Splendors and Activas are made for the enthusiasts, because of the way you use it. But Pulsars, Apache, FZs, R15s etc and almost every single motorcycle above it - not many can disagree - because all of these are designed for providing maximum enjoyment to the rider - within their respective budgets and limitations ofcourse. Even the humble Navi was projected as a fun option, no doubt - that's the difference between motorcycles and cars.

But I'd rather use it where it still feels fun - for example, my scooter is way more fun to roam around aimlessly on the city outskirts exploring the various options to view a sunrise, or even to go around inside town - but I really really don't want it for highway use comparing to my motorcycle, no matter how many advantages it might have / or might not have.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

What have you done GTO? I'm sure you're sitting on a couch right now with a bucket of popcorn in your hands and watching us slay each other.

One almost gets the feeling it was done by design. Maybe to bring some life into the forum?

Regards
Sutripta

[giri1.8]

My first proper long ride was on my Duke 200, 220km(one way) with just one stop for food, except for small tank everything else felt fine. Everyone will have very particular preference when it comes to motorcycle touring, mine being importance of seat with good support. I HATE motorcycles with narrow and very soft seats.

I am planning to do 300km in a day on my access 125 soon it handles well, brakes are just too good for a scooter, can potter around at 70+km/hr all day. So why not

[rohitoasis]

Would like to throw in this question.
Would nobody prefer Maxi scooters for touring if it is meant through decently paved roads or is it only me who has been lusting for these over the years.

Comfy seating position, CVT transmission, Visor to protect against wind blast, ample pillion space, ample stowage areas and tonnes of creature comforts. What is not to love about these?

PS: The question at the end was rhetorical. Please do not tell me Mileage, Ground clearance etc. I think those are pretty obvious.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by rohitoasis

Would like to throw in this question.
Would nobody prefer Maxi scooters for touring..........What is not to love about these?

To me - Image!
Lamby> Priya > Chetak >Select > Kinetic > Activa .......