[aargee]

Originally Posted by hserus

There’s a statement about zddp levels - a zinc friction modifier. That spec is in Shell Rotella which is their premium range of diesel oil and not in Rimula which is a regular mineral oil

Yes, it's the Diesel engine oil is what was being discussed to be used in CBR 250R; to precise Shell Rimula R4 15W40

Here's the whole lot of gyan, not to convince you, but sharing in case you're genuinely interested in learning - https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general...-cbr-250r.html

Personally, I haven't gone through that myself because I'm quite happy with the outcome of my experiments with Shell 10W40 Advance Ultra for nearly 1L Km.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by aargee

Yes, it's the Diesel engine oil is what was being discussed to be used in CBR 250R; to precise Shell Rimula R4 15W40
Personally, I haven't gone through that myself because I'm quite happy with the outcome of my experiments with Shell 10W40 Advance Ultra for nearly 1L Km.

I read through the thread. And I wonder if all this oil experimentation is responsible for all these stories about CBR engines smoking.

Honda seems intent on your using a 10w30 and specifically not a 10w40 or 15w40 though. Please see http://motorsportrider.net/Forum/for...x?g=posts&m=78 for a response someone got from Honda support.

Amsoil 10w30 4T, Motul 5100, Castrol Power1, Liqui Moly 10w30 Street etc might fit the bill.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by hserus

Honda seems intent on your using a 10w30 and specifically

Honda used to recommend 20W40 but a couple of years after the turn of the new millennium they started recommending 10W30 oil and this is a trend that has cascaded to Hero as well, even their Indian variants initially came with 20W40 oil but later on was changed to 10W30.

The reason if I recall right was a global move by Honda towards greener emissions and that makes sense cause fact be told their motorcycles used to come with SAI from the times of BS2/3 itself, whereas other manufacturers like Bajaj only provided the same post BS4 transition.

Again, in the pre-transition international manuals for Honda's CRF's I've seen the temperature charts for choosing oil grades but in the Indian version they just specify one requirement.

Having said all that it is still best to stick to the owners manual rather than going by some random guy on the internet.

Then again I've personally used Diesel oils on all of my motorcycles and cars to date as they're cheaper and I prefer shorter drain intervals. The same motorcycles have been on 1000+ km's a day rides several times, so from experience they don't cause any damage, and one another observation is that they do keep the engine spotlessly clean, again this could simply be the drain intervals as for motorcycles I change at roughly thousand miles per quart.





Both these engines had over 50k on the odo at the time of snapping the picture and currently both are at about 60k on the odo.

To think of it, I've not only used Diesel oil's I've used all sorts of oils even Petrol Car/CNG oils, Rimula R3x, Rimula T3, Rimula R4, Elf HDB Turbo, Castrol GTX, Valvoline Universal, Shell HX3, Mobil1 Delvac, Mobil Super and even the cheapest of the lot Laal Ghoda.

Basically I believe its all about the drain interval and not so much about the oil.

Hope my experience is of some help.

Cheers,
A.P.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by hserus

I read through the thread. And I wonder if all this oil experimentation is responsible for all these stories about CBR engines smoking

Nope

Originally Posted by hserus

Honda seems intent on your using a 10w30 and specifically not a 10w40 or 15w40 though

Honda seems intent on using stock exhaust, stock alloy wheel, stock air filter, stock brake pads, stock music system as well; if that were the reality, why do after market parts exist? They exist because of the the superiority in technical specification beating the stock engine oil, brake pads, tires, alloys & even mapping.

The link you've provided is 8 years ago & I've been using 10W40 for that many years as well now. The viscosity of Shell 10W40 is superior to that of any engine oil in the cadre of 10W30 & 10W40 across all the manufacturers. The second closest competitor is Motul 7100 series 10W40. I prefer Shell to Motul because Shell is more accessible + cost is slightly lower as well.

Originally Posted by hserus

Amsoil 10w30 4T, Motul 5100, Castrol Power1, Liqui Moly 10w30 Street etc might fit the bill.

Suresh please!!! These are Semi Synthetic, Shell 10W40 FS is way too superior than all these while more than perfectly fitting the bill.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Honda used to recommend 20W40 but a couple of years after the turn of the new millennium they started recommending 10W30 oil and this is a trend that has cascaded to Hero as well, even their Indian variants initially came with 20W40 oil but later on was changed to 10W30

And this is 100% true; I've filled 20W40 by ASC & that too this was mineral!! Compared to this engine oil, 10W40 FS is light years ahead. 20W40 used to last not more than 3K, by then the gears were getting struck, engine started running little rough. The same effect was observed around 4K with HMSI 10W30 & around 4.5K with Shell 10W40 FS.

[hserus]

You’re filling Motorcycle oils aargee rather than truck oil. Motul and Liqui Moly are quite competent oils, and Amsoil is one that I’ve found beats Shell in terms of additives though shell as they control their own refineries might have a better base oil combination.

Unless the oil can says syn blend (mix of mineral and synthetic so semi synthetic) what you’re looking at is group III vs much more rarely group IV synthetic base stocks, and a better additive package in one brand than the other.

All you need to check for is how it reacts to the high temperature and constant thrashing of a bike engine compared to a truck engine.

The truck specific oils like Rimula generally contain a large amount of detergent to disperse soot formation caused by burning diesel so yes, “engine looks clean” is a sort of side effect of pouring it in a petrol engine. Looking at how far your wet clutch lasts on a steady diet of diesel oil is the better question.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by hserus

Motul and Liqui Moly are quite competent oils, and Amsoil is one that I’ve found beats Shell in terms of additives though shell as they control their own refineries might have a better base oil combination

Boss, please give an empherical data; even IOL has own refineries, their 10W40 is inferior to Shell.

Originally Posted by hserus

Unless the oil can...and a better additive package in one brand than the other

Nope; I'm not talking on these lines at all

Originally Posted by hserus

All you need to check for is how it reacts to the high temperature and constant thrashing of a bike engine compared to a truck engine

Originally Posted by hserus

The truck specific oils like Rimula generally contain a large amount of detergent...diet of diesel oil is the better question.

Yes, it has lot of detergent & ZDDP as well; but no thanks, I'm happy with my Shell 10W40 (or may be Motul 7100 10W40 double ester)

And my assumption here is that - Use Rimula for sometime, engine gets cleaned up after that switch back. I don't know for sure if this is the recommended approach or not.

Point is I'm not in the Rimula gang for now

[ebonho]

I love these oil-y debates!

Personally on my std 500, I've used whatever I get on the highway on tour. Even with perfect ring seals, Bullets drink oil over long distance sustained high speed riding. Especially when it's hot. So it's not uncommon to have to top off at regular intervals.

Lal Ghoda worked just fine. On every tour you come back with a small plastic bottle with polythene and rubber band on the mouth to prevent leaking.

A bottle of castor oil works fine too in a pinch incidentally. Albeit admittedly more as an additive, especially if the walls of the bore and piston skirt have become momentarily intimate.

Personally though, once I moved to KTMs, whatever the Sai Service guys have as part of recommended KTM oil is just fine for me.

It's less about the oil and a lot more about the metallurgy and the machining and technology that really counts in the real world.

The oil guys are a cartel. They need to stay relevant.

And these online forums and discussions help.

Same for tyres.

We still had land speed records and Isle of Mann TT lap records that lasted decades, from the great war era of the last century.

On their oils and rubber.

Just for some alternative perspective.

Closer to home, Bose's Bullet 350 records from his racing days still stand. On his era oil and rubber. And needless to mention in spite of RE's multiple new 350 engine platforms.

Cheers, Doc

[hserus]

A lesser (or for other brands, better) quality of additive package would be the usual reason for brand X is better - or works better for me might be a better word - than brand Y. Most of them will source their base oils from the usual places - wherever they can get it cheapest and that meets their standards.

As it is, IOC seems to have a joint venture with Chevron for its base oils, and the local sarkari refineries have been improving over the years.

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/iocs-h...base-oil-unit/

Originally Posted by aargee

Boss, please give an empherical data; even IOL has own refineries, their 10W40 is inferior to Shell.

Yes, it has lot of detergent & ZDDP as well; but no thanks, I'm happy with my Shell 10W40 (or may be Motul 7100 10W40 double ester)

[aargee]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Personally on my std 500, I've used whatever I get on the highway on tour

I was shocked once to hear Jawa used to run even with coconut oil even when the piston rings were busted

Originally Posted by hserus

A lesser...

Boss, I rest my case as I don't intent to argue

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by aargee

I was shocked once to hear Jawa used to run even with coconut oil even when the piston rings were busted

Also kerosene in the tank. I've seen my college senior doing it so it's not hearsay.

Castor oil preferred over coconut because less carbon buildup. Eventually though you will need to replace plugs for both.

But they will get you home.

Cheers, Doc

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Also kerosene in the tank. I've seen my college senior doing it so it's not hearsay.

I spent a few of my teenage years in a small town in N Karnataka where the local pumps happily adulterated their petrol with kerosene back in the 2000s - this was a huge factor for the reason why ration kerosene started coming in blue colour around then, otherwise a lot of the ration stock of kerosene would be bought in black by pump owners and used to adulterate their petrol.

Got to be so that various people riding bullets or yezdis would just carry a kerosene bottle with them for any emergency fuel shortages.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by hserus

Looking at how far your wet clutch lasts on a steady diet of diesel oil is the better question.

I get roughly 50k km's of life from the clutch irrespective of motorcycle, which is decent as I'm on the heavier side and my motorcycles are ridden quite hard, my FE of 28kmpl on the P220 and 38kmpl on the CT100 would give you an idea of riding conditions and usage pattern.

The only time I faced slipping was;

1. P220, when I'd gone up a rocky trail with a pillion onboard and slipped clutch quite a bit resulting in it getting fried, the motorcycle had close to 50k on the ODO IIRC, so not bad I'd say. There was quite a bit of slipping on my 600+ km's ride back home.

2. CT100B, when the friction plates wore down beyond the point of cable slack, due to no slack left cable was tensioned and when whacking open throttle there was a little slip, hence changed the clutch, odo was again around 50k km's, this was a month or two ago;



I am quite observant but I've had no reason for complaint other than the usual qualms with just about any other recommended oil out there.

Hope that adds some reference points.
Cheers,
A.P.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I get roughly 50k km's of life from the clutch irrespective of motorcycle, which is decent as I'm on the heavier side and my motorcycles are ridden quite hard, my FE of 28kmpl on the P220 and 38kmpl on the CT100 would give you an idea of riding conditions and usage pattern.

Thanks! Yes, those bikes will give much more when driven sedately. What's your average oil change interval though, 2000-2500 before the oil starts to shear and get thin?

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by hserus

Thanks! Yes, those bikes will give much more when driven sedately. What's your average oil change interval though, 2000-2500 before the oil starts to shear and get thin?

I change at 1500~2000km's ideally, but on multiple day rides I push to 2500km's or rather change once every 3 days.

Merely from feel I don't keep an oil till it starts to get rough, so even when draining it would be viscous, back when I didn't know better I've pushed FS oils to about 4k KM's on the P220 a few times, once or twice on the ZMA and exactly once on the Discover 100, which was the most expensive oil I've bought to date i.e Motul 300v it lasted only about 1.5k Kms, the reason I bought it was because I didn't know better and was told FS oils offer longer drain intervals, but one side to Bangalore and about 750kms later the engine started to run ruff, on my return ride bike lost oomph and started to smell real bad, by the time I got home and drained the oil, it came out like water.



That was actually an eye opener for me, that's when I got to know that smaller engines wear down the oil sooner than larger engines when ridden at interstate speeds, but frankly I didn't expect a Rs.1~1.5k oil to crap out like that.

Motorcycle was fairly new at the time less than 5k KM's on the odo for sure. I've never faced similar concerns with cheaper motor oils irrespective of whether car or HDEO ones.

There is error on my part as well cause back then the 300v wasn't MA2 certified, even though Motul mentions in flowery language that it's performance exceeds all existing standards.

Anyhow, that's what laid foundation to me using cheaper oils with shorter drain intervals, other than frequent changes the cost factor also works out well for me when opting for oils that cost about 200'ish per liter, more so the difference in cost when bought in bulk or on offer.

Regards,
A.P.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I change at 1500~2000km's ideally, but on multiple day rides I push to 2500km's or rather change once every 3 days.

That's a super short drain interval but I guess it should be ok at that level. Carry oil and filter along on a long ride then.

Tried Amsoil 10w30 once?