[ast.ggn]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

Besides, the Kickstarter on the Xpulse is really bad.

It is ridiculous. I tried once for 10-15 kicks, it never worked. Got back to self start.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

, cause frequent use of kickstarter does wear down the kickstarter seal, not an issue per say as it is operational wear and tear

I have never used kick start (except for one try as mentioned above) and still got a leaking kick starter seal. Hero has found a good way to escape warranty by mentioning seals under exceptions.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ast.ggn

It is ridiculous. I tried once for 10-15 kicks, it never worked. Got back to self start.

Something doesn't sound right.

10~15 kicks is when your battery is dead, I know cause that's how many kicks the ZMA would take to fire with a dead battery, it had a DC CDI.

Could just be my OCD but wouldn't hurt to check stator and RR unit with a multimeter just to be on the safer side.

I have never used kick start (except for one try as mentioned above) and still got a leaking kick starter seal. Hero has found a good way to escape warranty by mentioning seals under exceptions.

Same for all manufacturers as it comes within the realm of consumables, I've had my speedo cable go bust on the next couple of days of purchasing ZMA and yet had to pay for replacement.

Again nothing to fret about cause a seal costs about Rs.20/-, but yes, it is a PITA cause the kickstart area is the most disgusting part due to all the road grime that sticks once the seal goes kaput.

Next time you replace do make sure to wrap some tape or use a piece of cardboard to leverage the screwdriver when popping out the seal, just a small scratch on the shaft is enough to bite one on the ass as it wears down seal prematurely on usage or at times even on installation, applying some oil before installation goes without saying.

P.S. Even if you don't use kick starter do make it a point to lube its pivot, there is a spring loaded bearing that might get stuck.

Ride Safe,
A.P.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Was going through an old thread (link (Why does my bike need a battery to run while kick-starting?)) on battery issue and started wondering hows the case with XPULSE Fi? As in, do we always need a battery in running condition inspite of having the kick start?

Reason I ask this is, my current ride(RTR) was lying around with a dead battery for 3 years while I was abroad and kickstart was good enough to get it going everytime I was in Bangalore for holidays. Of course the electronics(clock & odo) didn’t work but never had starting problems thanks to the kickstart. This is the reason I was more interested in XPULSE as it comes with a kickstart. But if FI model still needs a running battery everytime we kick-start, the whole point of looking at kickstarter as a criteria becomes moot.

Can someone please clarify?

Most Modern bikes use a DC Ignition, i.e they need a battery to start. I have attached a simple diagram that i pulled out from internet to illustrate the point.



When the main ignition relay is closed, the battery supplies the EFI with 12V DC, however it fires only when the pulse is given from the ECU. This is in case of a healthy battery.

With a dead battery , using a kick start, the alternator + rectifier takes over and provides the EFI's with DC 12 V through an alternative circuit. The output of the rectifier is usually connected through a charging capacitor which acts as a kind of temporary battery , which is just enough to run the ignition circuit. Of course, when the bike starts to run, the battery is also charging and after some time , you can use your battery directly for charging.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by srini1785

...
With a dead battery , using a kick start, the alternator + rectifier takes over and provides the EFI's with DC 12 V through an alternative circuit. The output of the rectifier is usually connected through a charging capacitor which acts as a kind of temporary battery , which is just enough to run the ignition circuit. Of course, when the bike starts to run, the battery is also charging and after some time , you can use your battery directly for charging.

So ideally even with dead battery the alternator +rectifier should be able to provide starting power to EFi bikes. Right?

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

So ideally even with dead battery the alternator +rectifier should be able to provide starting power to EFi bikes. Right?

In theory , Yes. In practice , Not always. The power produced (in the alternator) by a kick (or multiple kicks) may not always be sufficient to start a EFI bike. That said , it may just be able to do the trick. Why give a Kick start anyways?.

[DevOnWheels]

If the price difference between BS4 Fi and BS6 is not more than 20k-25k then its not worth going for a BS4 model as the BS6 is a lot more smoother and free revving than the BS4 model. Despite being low on BHP and Torque from the BS4 model it actually feels more faster as the engine is more eager to rev and the top end is also better. Also thanks to the oil-cooler it doesn't feel stressed at the top end which the BS4 does. Also the ABS issue is not there in the BS6 model. If modifications and motorsport is in the bucket list then go for the BS4 Carb.

Here's my 1.5 months old 2020 BS6

[ast.ggn]

Has anyone evaluated possibility of fitting oil cooler in BS4 model? What all changes might be required?

Found this video on YouTube trying to explain internals (regarding cooler). The video is in Malayalam if I am not wrong, can anyone explain what is it about?

https://youtu.be/N0I41kFMrA4

[petrolhead_neel]

Originally Posted by DevOnWheels

If the price difference between BS4 Fi and BS6 is not more than 20k-25k then its not worth going for a BS4 model as the BS6 is a lot more smoother and free revving than the BS4 model. Despite being low on BHP and Torque from the BS4 model it actually feels more faster as the engine is more eager to rev and the top end is also better. Also thanks to the oil-cooler it doesn't feel stressed at the top end which the BS4 does.

Have you ridden a well run-in BS4? Mine doesn't feel stressed at the top end. It's the low end that has a bad clatter. In fact, I have ridden mine at 100+ for an hour straight, through a boring empty highway to get through a hot afternoon of coming back home from a small tour. No problems with the bike heating or feeling stressed.

ABS issue has been solved under warranty.

Neel

EDIT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTlLgUWY8_M

Talked to the person who posted this, he says that the BS6 bike has some problems which are being fixed, but yeah. Also, the guy on the BS4 bike is 60kgs heavier, the guy riding the BS6 has ridden in rallies, as far as I know.

Neel

[DevOnWheels]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

Have you ridden a well run-in BS4? Mine doesn't feel stressed at the top end. It's the low end that has a bad clatter. In fact, I have ridden mine at 100+ for an hour straight, through a boring empty highway to get through a hot afternoon of coming back home from a small tour. No problems with the bike heating or feeling stressed.

ABS issue has been solved under warranty.

Neel

EDIT:
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=YTlLgUWY8_M

Talked to the person who posted this, he says that the BS6 bike has some problems which are being fixed, but yeah. Also, the guy on the BS4 bike is 60kgs heavier, the guy riding the BS6 has ridden in rallies, as far as I know.

Neel

Yes Neel, I did rode 2 BS4 Fi's with 8000km and 12000km on the odo as I was contemplating buying a used one, but some how that didn't materialize. Both of these bikes felt rough at higher revs.

Regarding the heating thing you mentioned it's just a 200cc mill, so I agree with you that there's not much heat being generated but the oil cooler is used just to keep the engine oil in its optimum temperature and viscosity (unlike liquid cooled engines where the coolant is used to cool down the engine directly) and it does so when the engine oil gets heated to a certain temperature either in heavy traffic or high rev riding.
Infact in heavy traffic you can feel the oil-cooler kicking in once a little bit of heat starts to reach your legs in the BS6 bike and cools it down within a few minutes.

In the video attached by you the BS6 bike may be having some issues as per their claim. But the BS6 bike is definitely slower than the BS4 bike owing to its lower power/torque and higher weight because of the 2nd cat-con thanks to BS6 emission norms. But I would repeat my point, it does feel faster because of the smoothness and rev happiness.

ABS issue is solved under warranty to only a few customers. Infact the showroom from where I got my bike didn't have any idea about such ABS issue and ABS module replacement under warranty. The same is the case with 3 more dealers from where I got quotes before purchasing. Infact when I asked them to confirm the make of the ABS module, they said that "Sir, it's made by Hero. Made in India)

Do test ride a BS6 bike back to back with yours in heavy traffic and open highway to feel the exact difference. I am also planning to do the same.

Regards,
DevOnWheels

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by ast.ggn

Has anyone evaluated possibility of fitting oil cooler in BS4 model? What all changes might be required?

I have not done it and I would advise you not to try it. Even though , in theory, it could be possible. You definitely need to change the clutch cover to incorporate the oil entry and exit. That is assuming that the pump remains the same. To attach the cooler you need pre drilled holes on the engine case (probably) and route the oil tubes.

All said and done, it won't change the basic design from BS4 to BS6. For that you need to provide oxygen sensors, change the ECU map , add catalytic converter to the exhausts etc etc. IMO, Not worth the effort.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by ast.ggn

Has anyone evaluated possibility of fitting oil cooler in BS4 model? What all changes might be required?

Get Clutch Cover and Oil Cooler Assembly;





You'd need to fabricate mount points on the chassis to mount the oil cooler, or fabricate clamps, whatever is convenient, for someone who has machined alternate clip-on's for his bike this would be child's play.

I did go through the parts manual and everything else seems to be shared with the older bike, even the oil pump, which ideally is the case with iterations of the Pulsars and Karizma's that came with and without oil coolers.

Honestly this isn't worth the effort, it just adds one more things that could possibly go wrong.

If it weren't for my cheapness I would've got myself a P180 clutch cover and be done with the oil cooler a long time ago in my P220. Unnecessary add-ons to create pointless USP's.

[shady]

Originally Posted by ast.ggn

Has anyone evaluated possibility of fitting oil cooler in BS4 model? What all changes might be required?

Found this video on YouTube trying to explain internals (regarding cooler). The video is in Malayalam if I am not wrong, can anyone explain what is it about?

He has explained only the internal flow of oil on the BS6 model.

I came across the below link where they have fitted an oil cooler on the BS4 model using the BS6 clutch case. The below link is explained in malayalam with english subtitles.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGXV_F_p...d=zb2fkphi9ogu

[petrolhead_neel]

Originally Posted by DevOnWheels

Regarding the heating thing you mentioned it's just a 200cc mill, so I agree with you that there's not much heat being generated but the oil cooler is used just to keep the engine oil in its optimum temperature and viscosity (unlike liquid cooled engines where the coolant is used to cool down the engine directly) and it does so when the engine oil gets heated to a certain temperature either in heavy traffic or high rev riding.
Infact in heavy traffic you can feel the oil-cooler kicking in once a little bit of heat starts to reach your legs in the BS6 bike and cools it down within a few minutes.

Makes sense! I am just confused and surprised that so many people are complaining about heat on the BS4. Also, what I've found is that the bike rarely gets hot while on the move, but during summer, after parking the bike post a spirited run, the engine gets really hot.

Also, a lot of people have replaced the Hero provided engine oil to better quality ones, and have noticed a significant change in smoothness. All in all, the BS4 bike just seems to be more experimental, as ast.ggn has also said.

I just figured that I have not updated in this thread about the whole engine head change under warranty issue. Turns out, my bike isn't eligible for that change. In my complaint email, I asked hero to send the rectified ABS unit and anything else that is being changed under warranty. I just got the ABS unit. Later, I talked to a Hero engineer (also a great Trials rider who has his own XPulse) and he said that he isn't aware of a change like this. I also talked to the head mechanic who said that my bike sounds very healthy (and that he has had experience with Xtreme engines that sounded very rough and needed replacements), and I shouldn't bother.

ABS issue is solved under warranty to only a few customers. Infact the showroom from where I got my bike didn't have any idea about such ABS issue and ABS module replacement under warranty. The same is the case with 3 more dealers from where I got quotes before purchasing. Infact when I asked them to confirm the make of the ABS module, they said that "Sir, it's made by Hero. Made in India)


Regards,
DevOnWheels

Hero's service, especially for the XPulse, is a very big joke right now. I only got work done after complaining to Hero directly.

Originally Posted by srini1785

All said and done, it won't change the basic design from BS4 to BS6. For that you need to provide oxygen sensors, change the ECU map , add catalytic converter to the exhausts etc etc. IMO, Not worth the effort.

Actually, many BS6 owners are changing to the BS4 exhaust, thereby deleting the extra cat-con and getting the best of both worlds.

Hero's factory bikes are made and tuned very differently. Here's CS Santosh's bike (from his Instagram).


@shady, thanks for the Instagram link. I can see more people doing this, especially those who have done/want to do further performance mods.

Neel

[ast.ggn]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

for someone who has machined alternate clip-on's for his bike this would be child's play.

I have switched back to stock clip-ons last Sunday. Doc Ebonho scared me a bit . Probably need to update on that thread as well.

I did go through the parts manual and everything else seems to be shared with the older bike, even the oil pump, which ideally is the case with iterations of the Pulsars and Karizma's that came with and without oil coolers.

Oil pump is same as per parts catalogue in both BS4 and BS6. It looks like a easy mod though, can't say about reliability and it's effectiveness. I just don't want my bike to be in service center for another 2 weeks due to engine seizure again after a 300-400 kms ride. Might drop the idea as well.

The guy in the video link shared by Shady, seems to be talking about getting a bigger oil pump as well in description and comments. eg: Karizma.

Originally Posted by shady

I came across the below link where they have fitted an oil cooler on the BS4 model using the BS6 clutch case. The below link is explained in malayalam with english subtitles.

[shady]

Originally Posted by ast.ggn

The guy in the video link shared by Shady, seems to be talking about getting a bigger oil pump as well in description and comments. eg: Karizma.

Personally I would stay with the factory fit components. Adding parts would be like an experiment. Can't rely on the real world reliability of these addons.