[Pratzgh1]

I agree with you @The Great. But at the same time, we have seen Honda make refined single cylinder motorcycles for quite a while now. That said, is it just me or does anyone else feel that the offerings in this engine format are targetted for a specific market in some specific regions and not India. I would love to see a classic 650 with all the technology safety net and an improved chassis. The Interceptor looks okay! The CGT looks amazing but is uncomfortable as hell with its stance and stiff setup. I would love a 650 to have some road presence.

Would be amazing to see some comfortable REs with this engine. RE has the advantage of vintage styling. If they pull out a style like the Triumph bobber with modern safety features and this engine in it, take my money RE. Or at the very least take this idea and build something around it.

EICMA 2017 also showcased how retro design could be mashed up with modern design to make some interesting concepts. If this is the future, I am glad to be alive in this era.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Thats precisely the point I am making. What use is a 100+ bhp and racing suspension, when due road conditions your superbike averages 44kmph? Besides that race stiff suspension pummels your rearside making 50+ km riding difficult. Its like wearing 6 inch heels, may look uber cool but ask the lady who walks in them for a day

Very true. In the same vein, cars like the new Octavia vRS or any car upwards of 100 horses should be banned on our roads. Where do you get to use all that power anyway? We should all drive only Alto K10's because that is all our roads here deserve.

[TorqueyTechie]

With due respect to the people commenting about the build/ride quality about these machines, what you are doing is speculating and extrapolating/inferring based on the earlier products from RE. Yes it definitely is a valid point based on their issues/niggles but in the end for this product its nothing but speculation only. We all have seen the same happen in other threads as well. Lets not thrash down a product even before its launch here. A bit of pessimism is always good but not a complete bad mouthing even before experiencing it.

Before any one takes pot shots at me, No I don't own a RE or a fan boy. I still ride my good old pulsar. Lets stick to discussing about the product as such.

[Torqy]

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

With due respect to the people commenting about the build/ride quality about these machines, what you are doing is speculating and extrapolating/inferring based on the earlier products from RE. Yes it definitely is a valid point based on their issues/niggles but in the end for this product its nothing but speculation only. We all have seen the same happen in other threads as well. Lets not thrash down a product even before its launch here. A bit of pessimism is always good but not a complete bad mouthing even before experiencing it.

Before any one takes pot shots at me, No I don't own a RE or a fan boy. I still ride my good old pulsar. Lets stick to discussing about the product as such.

One intention of bad mouthing and speculating is to warn / remind RE of what they'd done with the Himalayan and not to repeat it. Not to treat early customers like guinea pigs and do proper testing on their own.

[naturaldisaster]

Boy this 650 announcement has really stirred up a wasp's nest here on TBHP! As a rider who has owned both Bullet and other mainstream modern bikes, i can tell you that this topic (RE reliability) is definitely debatable. But does is mean the new bikes will be bad or 'dead on arrival' as mentioned in a previous post? An emphatic no!

There are several reasons i believe these bikes will be good options for any rider, RE fan or not. The key reason being that they are making one bike for all markets. They just cannot afford to manufacture a bike for export, that makes them fat piles of cash substandard under any circumstance. Other reasons include a giant relative tech upgrade from the existing RE motors and chassis design designed and meant to be fun to ride slow or fast (unlike exiting one which is 'chalta hai' since decades.)

Hence i see 2 paths that RE can choose from. In both cases, the Indian Customer should be satisfied.

1) They launch a good bike and all parts are standard between domestic and export bikes and the they will be priced accordingly, i.e. at a proper premium. We cannot complain because we are getting a bike that has good quality and performs reliably (similar to close competition.)

2) They have a binning system wherein good quality parts go to the export bikes (as is the case now AFAIK) and export reject material comes to our bikes resulting in significantly lower prices. Again, we cannot complain because we are getting a 650cc twin bike for cheap as compared to the competition.

There is just one caveat here. RE's management and training of showrooms and service centers. They will now be competing with Triumph and other premium brands and must up their salesmanship. RE salesmen are most useless and know nothing about actually selling. Fair warning to you in advance RE, this is not another color of the Bullet, that will just sell by itself. Hope you play your cards well and we all have great, fairly priced product in our market. Cheers.

[The Great]

Originally Posted by naturaldisaster

Fair warning to you in advance RE, this is not another color of the Bullet, that will just sell by itself. Hope you play your cards well and we all have great, fairly priced product in our market

Honestly, IMO whatever RE produces will sell. They seem to have decoded the formula like Maruti.

We had the fairly priced great products in MOJO / FIAT's etc, but they failed. Although a lot of factors affected their failure, which is what is more important than the product itself in our market.

The majority of customers don't yet know what they want, we are fed down the throats and made to believe that what we are buying is what we want happily.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Rob UK

Attachment 1696294

Here is a top down view of the cylinder head for the 2009 onwards ﹰHonda VFR 1200, a highly advanced design when it was launched as the world's first dual clutch motorcycle.

As you can see it has 4 valves per cylinder, with the SOHC offset to one side allowing a central spark plug, as I described would be one way to achieve optimal placement.

This engine produces 137bhp per litre in sports touring trim whilst meeting the latest Euro emission requirements. Honda have repeated the 4 valve SOHC design on the recent CRF1000L Africa twin and Triumph went from DOHC to SOHC on the new Bonneville.

You may find this hard to understand - I simply accept that it works!

Sure. And some more diligent searching will, I'm sure, throw up some more.

Question is what is mainstream. And why.
And if we accept the importance of central plug placement, where does this engine of RE stand. (I maintain that this engine will not land up with a single central plug. Do you? Pls. note the use of 'central' cam, which is what this RE engine is). Will observe its evolution. Breath will not be bated!


Actually would be great if a knowledgeable auto journalist would interview the tech team. (When hopefully they won't pull stunts like 'oil cooled engine').

Regards
Sutripta

[navin_v8]

Having being owning 5 RE's till date that includes G2, B1, 96 CI, AVL and UCE. I have experienced all of them and still own and ride them. RE does not force the buyer to buy their products, anyone spending close to 2 lakhs would be sound enough to take that decision. OLX and Quikr being filled with used RE's speaks volumes about ownership and frustration. My Tbird500 which completed its 3 years this year has been niggle free and is serving me really well. I almost took a plunge to buy the Himalayan but parking woes at my building kept me away from it.

RE has a winner on hand with the 650cc parallel twin Interceptor and CGT. Both the bikes look deliciously handsome and retro as I have seen the original RE Interceptor 750 of the 1960's in flesh in Bombay. This category of retro classic in India is largely untouched. Triumph Bonneville base model costs almost about 8 lakhs on road so people considering RE 650 won't even bother looking at Bonneville IF the latter costs 4.5 lakhs on road. Now I have to see how to create space in my garage.

[naturaldisaster]

Originally Posted by The Great

Honestly, IMO whatever RE produces will sell. They seem to have decoded the formula like Maruti.

We had the fairly priced great products in MOJO / FIAT's etc, but they failed. Although a lot of factors affected their failure, which is what is more important than the product itself in our market.

The majority of customers don't yet know what they want, we are fed down the throats and made to believe that what we are buying is what we want happily.

Agreed. This is RE, an ancient brand with a cult following in India and segment leader. However the regular 'formula' wont work this time. Because 'Bult' buyers from Ludhiana or any other typical buyer is not the target customer this time around... none of those guys will ever pay 4 or 5 lacs for a bike to 'dug dug' around Karol Bagh, irrespective of what RE may think. Purchase decisions for the twins will have significantly higher percentage of head involved rather than all heart. I sincerely hope they consider this while planning their customer experience strategy.

And i feel they will. There was a noticeable different in customer handling when the Himalayan was brand new. But it relapsed to the regular unprofessional level after its collapse. Point to note: They did in fact train sales reps to handle Himalayan customers better then bullets.

[d1vine]

Its all sorts of confusing as to how and why have people come up with this figure of 4-5 lakhs for these bikes. If the 535cc CGT comes at a price of 2.3 - 2.4 on road then this at max should be 3 - 3.1 lakhs on road. 4-5 lakhs means double the price for CGT 535, however by no means are the twins double the bike.

Royal Enfield as a brand has a perceived value cap in my head, just like I would not spend 40k on Michael Kors watch but will go over to a brand like Tissot to spend that kind of money on a watch. Similarly in my head I cannot pay more that 3- 3.25 on road price for a RE, anything beyond that and I jump ship and look at other brands even if they cost a little more.
I think the same happened with the 535 CGT as well, they came up with a good overall product but they crossed the 2 lakh mental barrier on the pricing in India and the 6k$ pricing abroad because of which they have not been able to move too many CGT's over the years.
Plus the recent Himalayan quality fiasco and they cannot afford to act frivolous with their pricing strategy.
Do understand I am the core customer base for RE's twins, just entered my 30's have enough expendable income for a leisure bike and on top of that I have been putting off buying the classic 500 for almost over a year waiting for the 650. Everything about the interceptor is absolutely right for me so it will all boil down to the price for me. If its anything beyond the perceived value that RE can command then I can very easily put off buying a bike for another couple of years waiting for others entrants.

[nasirkaka]

Its all sorts of confusing as to how and why have people come up with this figure of 4-5 lakhs for these bikes. If the 535cc CGT comes at a price of 2.3 - 2.4 on road then this at max should be 3 - 3.1 lakhs on road. 4-5 lakhs means double the price for CGT 535, however by no means are the twins double the bike.

+1
In general almost all of us have been excited by the prospect of 650twins from and RE and really really hope it does well for them and us. Dont think people are calling it 'dead on arrival' or putting it down even before the release or a test ride. In general, REs have not been known for their reliability so invariability that aspect gets pulled in all RE related discussions which may come across as beating the brand down.

What is been point of debate mostly is the speculated price point based on what we make of the bike from the released specs so far. It is debate between 3.3L Vs 5L or thereabouts. I am really looking forward to the twins on Himalayan, which is distant dream if at all. I will be really tempted to sell my bonnie if they price the interceptor at around 3.5L, mainly for the ABS factor, and if Z900RS is launched with exorbitant pricing, which is what i have been eying for a while.

[Trojan]

Wow, it is indeed incredible to see the amount of interest RE generates from lovers and haters alike!

The design is neat and understated, truly a retro classic in every way.

We as Indians really need to retrospect a lot and appreciate efforts. Which other Indian manufacturer has actually catered to and has reignited the biking spirit amongst a lot of us people?
Biking in India was never really for enjoying oneself or soul riding whatever. It was always for A-B commuting and that too cheaply.
The Japs understood it and there began the 100cc revolution, where KMPL till its final breath was the Emperor.

In such a scenario Royal Enfield has managed to carve a niche for itself, not giving in to market pressure, sales, etc. Stuck to its lineage and made a brutal comeback.
Come on, we all should accept that moving to mainstream commuter bikes was probably an easier option - like they say in management parlance - the bread and butter bikes and keep the 350, 500, GT as niche offering.
But the company chose to recreate the passion, it made Bike Trips fancy and something to look forward to.
Of course we can argue that you can do soul searching on a Platina too. Well I have to agree I can and it will be cheaper to the gallon (90kmpl if I remember), but if I have to ride out searching my soul in Ladakh, would like to do it with some panache and some thump don't hurt at all.

So carving out the niche are we, making biking a religion, a good example would be Rider Mania.
This has brought together a huge number of like minded people together, a community which never existed.

You don't make that out of nothing. And with all this, they are doing very well and can continue with the same stuff.

But no, they decide to bring in the new stuff - radicalizing the market. This they achieved by the Himalayan, while Hero Honda was still very shy and eventually backed out of the Impulse story.
The next closest competition? Doesn't exist!

Of course there are niggles - but here is a company which has taken responsibility of the same and is sorting it out, each and every reported issue is being taken care of.
A Road-Side Assistance Package (Complimentary for the first year) has been rolled out too, this is the conviction to improve and the intent to resolve.
Coz am here to stay.

Now with all this going on, RE surprises every one with the Interceptor, people say it looks like the Triumph (I did too until I saw the previous Interceptor), so it looks like its ancestor.
An Indian Twin, wow, why the skepticism?

Due to reliability? It is again a great thing that it is being made as per European standards, I hope they get an FTR (First Time Right). But at least you have the assurance from them that they would resolve it.

Like with every new model, we should always wait for a bit let the reports trickle in and then decide.
Most people commenting because it is a democracy - have never bought an RE in their life nor will they ever buy one. They have issues being reported from my friends - friend.
I agree it is a forum - but then again - it is a forum - our personal experiences should be shared that is what adds value. As we never can be sure, how and under what conditions was the bike being ridden.

Eagerly waiting to ride one.

P.s. - Electra + Himalayan - had my share of experiences, but I prefer to keep my glass half-full - if not then I add some ice cubes.

Cheers All!

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Very true. In the same vein, cars like the new Octavia vRS or any car upwards of 100 horses should be banned on our roads. Where do you get to use all that power anyway? We should all drive only Alto K10's because that is all our roads here deserve.

From where did you infer the word ban? Did i ask anywhere for banning any bike? Or is this the great Indian trend: to ban anything that doesn't suit you?
How is touring in a car comparable with a bike? Is a vrs on any resonably powerful car even 10% as uncomfortable as a super sport bike?

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

From where did you infer the word ban? Did i ask anywhere for banning any bike? Or is this the great Indian trend: to ban anything that doesn't suit you?
How is touring in a car comparable with a bike? Is a vrs on any resonably powerful car even 10% as uncomfortable as a super sport bike?

I never talked about a supersport. You did. I would only use adv tourers for trips like these anyway. And super sports arent the only bikes available to buy in india.

Lets not get into a bike vs cager match now. This thread is about the two bikes royal enfield launched, lets stick to it.

[gautam99]

Originally Posted by d1vine

Its all sorts of confusing as to how and why have people come up with this figure of 4-5 lakhs for these bikes. If the 535cc CGT comes at a price of 2.3 - 2.4 on road then this at max should be 3 - 3.1 lakhs on road. 4-5 lakhs means double the price for CGT 535, however by no means are the twins double the bike.



Royal Enfield as a brand has a perceived value cap in my head, just like I would not spend 40k on Michael Kors watch but will go over to a brand like Tissot to spend that kind of money on a watch. Similarly in my head I cannot pay more that 3- 3.25 on road price for a RE, anything beyond that and I jump ship and look at other brands even if they cost a little more.

I think the same happened with the 535 CGT as well, they came up with a good overall product but they crossed the 2 lakh mental barrier on the pricing in India and the 6k$ pricing abroad because of which they have not been able to move too many CGT's over the years.

Plus the recent Himalayan quality fiasco and they cannot afford to act frivolous with their pricing strategy.

Do understand I am the core customer base for RE's twins, just entered my 30's have enough expendable income for a leisure bike and on top of that I have been putting off buying the classic 500 for almost over a year waiting for the 650. Everything about the interceptor is absolutely right for me so it will all boil down to the price for me. If its anything beyond the perceived value that RE can command then I can very easily put off buying a bike for another couple of years waiting for others entrants.

The motorcycle.com review of the re twins from eicma on you tube mentions the us price being $6000; this will mean a super and lower price in India.