[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Most likely. But contrary to popular perception that G310R will hardly do any numbers, the overall booking ratio is been 60:40 in favour of GS. This is from a close source at BMW and they themselves are surprised as they expected the GS to do much better in relation to R.

Seat height is a massive reason why most people will shy away from the GS in addition to its price. Most of the people i saw climbing on board just could not plant their feet down and nor could they make a tight uturn on the street when testing it. Its just 5mm shorter than a stock versys, and mine actually sits lower than the stock GS!

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Seat height is a massive reason why most people will shy away from the GS in addition to its price.

Exactly. That seat is way too high. I am no benchmark but the moment I saw 835 mm as the saddle height, I gave up remotest of the thoughts of ever swinging a leg over the bike. In contrast, 785 mm seat height for 310R sounds very accommodating for short riders. Anyone around 5'8" is certainly going to feel R much more confidence inspiring compared to GS!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Some of the accessories prices from Wunderlich & Hepco Becker -

[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Seat height is a massive reason why most people will shy away from the GS in addition to its price. Most of the people i saw climbing on board just could not plant their feet down and nor could they make a tight uturn on the street when testing it. Its just 5mm shorter than a stock versys, and mine actually sits lower than the stock GS!

Shows they have not seriously considered the anthropometric data for the Indian and south east Asian market where average human height is much lower then European or American counterpart. They have a lower seat option which retails at close to 400USD, reducing seat height by miser 15mm. What a joke! aftermarket options from the likes of 'seat concept' is much better. Lowering kit is available for baby GS, but going by my experience of riding a versys with lowering kit, its better to stay off it. Its hardens the suspension, compromises on ground clearance, and side stand needs to be shortened - too much of hassle. Aslo will cause issues if one is considering an aftermarket center stand. Best is get used to the height of the bike which should be manageable for folks who are 5'8" or above. Due to height of the bike, falling or tipping over is inevitable, so better get good engine and body protection. What should help the cause is the bike is not as heavy as versys, which is very difficult to hold if it starts tipping. I will most likely end up shaving the foam by about half an inch, at 820mm it should be ok.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Most likely. But contrary to popular perception that G310R will hardly do any numbers, the overall booking ratio is been 60:40 in favour of GS. This is from a close source at BMW and they themselves are surprised as they expected the GS to do much better in relation to R.

The dealer told my friend the same - 310R bookings surpassed those of the GS.

[ranjitnair77]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Seat height is a massive reason why most people will shy away from the GS in addition to its price.

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

Exactly. That seat is way too high.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I will most likely end up shaving the foam by about half an inch, at 820mm it should be ok.

Here is an alternative opinion. You cannot look at a number and say that it is too high for me. Sure, you would get some idea that it could be tall but you will never really know unless you sit on it and ride it for a while. Here are factors that come into play.

• The seat height
• The seat width
• The tank width
• Your inseam length.
• The weight of the bike.
• The center of gravity of the bike.

Let me illustrate this with an example. I am 5"7" with a 32" inseam I was perfectly comfortable on a 310GS. It is light, has a low CG and I never felt any issue in riding it. I can see myself using it as a commuter bike.

A very generous friend let me keep his Tiger XCX for a month as it is on my bucket list. Now that is a tall bike with a high center of gravity and is significantly heavier. I could barely put my foot down and I was frightened about falling over the first few times I rode it. However within a few days I was completely at ease. I learned the techniques of riding a tall bike and boy it was fantastic as I could dismiss bad roads. The tall bike fear was eliminated by good technique.

The GS is vastly simpler to ride as compared to the Tiger.

The benefits of putting both feet down flat is vastly overstated in my opinion, which I personally learned by riding a very tall bike. So let this not be something that you should worry about.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

The benefits of putting both feet down flat is vastly overstated in my opinion, which I personally learned by riding a very tall bike. So let this not be something that you should worry about.

I agree with your inference. Over a period of time, you will adjust. But the sale is made at the showroom in 10 minutes, not at your house over the convenience of using a test ride bike over 3 months.

Unfortunately the normal every day buyer will try to sit on the bike in the show room and the test ride and will walk away after not being able make a tight u turn on a single lane with his wife sitting behind for company. This is fact, and we saw this happen many times in front of us. People almost fell.

This bike will be a niche purchase for people who want to adv tour, and are prepared to put up with the inconvenience or who already have a big bike and know what adv touring is. This is you.

The regular clientele who want an everyday good looking run about will buy the 310r. These are the rest of the world and will outnumber all of us times 100. Unfortunately for BMW, both ktm and kawasaki have got them sitting in a corner with their value pricing proposition against the R.

If you have done any offroading in uneven terrain on a big heavy adv bike, you will know how undeniably comforting it is to flat foot when your bike does the proverbial stall when ascending or descending. All the big bike adv riders here know that.

For the Himalayan, this was the number 1 point on the requirements list given to the designers and engineers.

Big heavy adv tourers are on their way out...the death knell has been sounded.

[ranjitnair77]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

But the sale is made at the showroom in 10 minutes, not at your house over the convenience of using a test ride bike over 3 months.

I agree with almost all your comments. My observations were aimed at people who are considering an adventure bike but have concerns about seat height. Almost all 310GS riders will be in that category and the regular buyer will probably buy the G310R. I am just happy that BMW offered an option for both kinds of riders and BMW knows this as well.

I know quite a few big-bike (including Tiger owners) who have the Himalayan as a second bike that they use for shorter, tougher trails. Not because it is a better off-roader but it is cheap to fix. They don't particularly like the Himalayan but there isn't an alternative. I do expect a lot of them to get the GS and mod it or the 390 Adventure (when it launches )

My biggest concern would be the maintenance cost. All the premium badges have ludicrous labour and part charges. TVS is manufacturing the bike so I am expecting cheaper parts but BMW needs to come out with indicative part and labour cost breakdown for the 310s.

Honestly, while the power debate is endless, the bigger Adventure bikes have a very clear place. Long distance touring. I personally think that the 800cc/95bhp triple is just perfect. No more, no less. However I won't ramble on too much about my love for the Tiger as it is

[nasirkaka]

I guess all we adventure tourer junkies have been in love with the tiger at some point and its a sweet bike. Just that some us with limited budget opted for the 'value' in versys 650. At 840mm seat height, i toppled the versys twice at crawling speed and thats where the problem lies. Its the mix of weight & seat height and inspite of being cautious, a bit of sand/one slightly missed footing and there is very little scope to keep the bike upright. I shaved the foam off the seat (about 20mm) and later also got a lowering kit (45mm). So versys seat height today is 775mm, the bike feels like a pulsar and i ride is all over the town without a worry of toppling. Incase of missed footing or uneven surface where once is forced to put his foot down only to realize the ground is a bit lower, now i get 2nd and 3rd chance off the ground to prevent a fall.

Did sit and take a small ride on the 310GS and it felt tall. I will ride it with stock seat initially, and see if the low-weight and low-CG negates the fear of seat height. Else sandpaper zindabaad!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

I learned the techniques of riding a tall bike and boy it was fantastic as I could dismiss bad roads. The tall bike fear was eliminated by good technique.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

The benefits of putting both feet down flat is vastly overstated in my opinion

But, not fully at this point. There are some situations were you can't plan your technique and one small mistake is enough to pull a tall bike down, at parking speeds, no matter how experienced and confident the rider might seem. Most Versys and Tiger guys I know have dropped their bikes at parking speeds - despite being good riders who haven't had a single issue otherwise with their riding style.

That said - the 310GS seems to be one of the lightest such bikes around. From the spy pics, it doesn't look like KTM is planning to drop the ride height either - so mostly this is as good as its ever going to get!

[ashwinprakas]

Just pouring in my thoughts.

So what am I getting after paying 3.5L lakhs?

Unless I have a fetish for a superficial brand recognition, it makes no sense to opt for the BMW 310, the Kawasaki Versys 300 or any such motorcycle of such origin in which I would have to stand on the pegs a good percent of the time while doing broken patches, as I thought the whole purpose of spending so much moolah would be so that I can rest my ass on the saddle instead of trailing in an uncomfortable pose for god knows how long until the next patch of tarmac comes along.

Now my statement is from watching the review videos on YouTube as I've not ridden either of the motorcycles.

Then there is the matter of absurd pricing of accessories, for the price of one aftermarket visor I could adventure prep an Indigenous motorcycle such as the Pulsar 220(which I have) with all the bells and whistles.

Now about the package, what is it with the USD Fork fetish, I do understand that front end rigidity is improved for competition use but leveraging fork seals like that to external factors doesn't justify the use, the Duke's do tend to blow seals even when ridden on tarmac in Indian conditions due to tar and such sticking onto the forks and being driven up into the seals on suspension action.

The only reasonable upside of this motorcycle is that it has switchable ABS and that's that.

Again, I'm not one who is into brand's unless an actual on the road value proposition is put forth and these are my thoughts.

Peace.
A.P.

[MadRasTan4986]

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

Here are factors that come into play.

• The seat height
• The seat width
• The tank width
• Your inseam length.
• The weight of the bike.
• The center of gravity of the bike.

Perfectly said. Also the foam thickness and its density which will affect how much it'll squat and compress when you sit on it.

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

A very generous friend let me keep his Tiger XCX for a month as it is on my bucket list. Now that is a tall bike with a high center of gravity and is significantly heavier. I could barely put my foot down and I was frightened about falling over the first few times I rode it. However within a few days I was completely at ease. I learned the techniques of riding a tall bike and boy it was fantastic as I could dismiss bad roads. The tall bike fear was eliminated by good technique.

Like you I also had the fortune of riding a friends Tiger in the city and highway. Sure did change my perception on riding tall bikes and also boosted my confidence in handling such bikes. For reference I'm 5'5, decently fit and although I had a hard time riding and manoeuvring it initially, after spending some time on it, I got used to it and found ways to work around the tall seat height. But what a commanding presence on the road and view, I can see why ADVs are called the SUVs of bikes. Still it was difficult when coming to a halt, but on the move, my god what a bike. If I ever do end up getting an ADV it'll be a Tiger for sure. And I'll probably do something to the seat height a bit and reducing the foam height just for added security to keep one foot down and the other on tip toes, instead of both on tip toes.

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

The GS is vastly simpler to ride as compared to the Tiger.
The benefits of putting both feet down flat is vastly overstated in my opinion, which I personally learned by riding a very tall bike. So let this not be something that you should worry about.

True but to most people I think the inability to keep both feet down will be a worry and this will deter many people away from the GS to the R.

[Ajaybiz]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Just pouring in my thoughts.
So what am I getting after paying 3.5L lakhs?

Its not 3.5 L it's around 4.4 L for the GS Bangalore on road, BMW or even the dealer is not forcing anyone to buy so you can be happy without paying.
You can still own a Duke 390 at cheaper price and over 40 BHP. Or even Versys 650 with 75 plus BHP on tap under 8L.
It's not value for money bike and BMW is not known for the same and they were never in mass market.
Its just like having all the features even more in 15K vivo phone vs iPhone with limited features costing over 100K

[ranjitnair77]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Unless I have a fetish for a superficial brand recognition, it makes no sense to opt for the BMW 310, the Kawasaki Versys 300 or any such motorcycle of such origin in which I would have to stand on the pegs a good percent of the time while doing broken patches, as I thought the whole purpose of spending so much moolah would be so that I can rest my ass on the saddle instead of trailing in an uncomfortable pose for god knows how long until the next patch of tarmac comes along.

You don't have to stand on the footpegs and ride . The 310GS has an excellent saddle and suspension so you can sit down and enjoy the ride as well.

There are many good reasons why it makes sense to stand up and ride on off-road and bad road conditions. It's better for your body, for controlling the bike and pretty much any other aspect of motorcycle riding. Do take a look at videos out there on this. This is also a big thing that they teach you when you do an off-road motorcycle training course. If the standing up pose is uncomfortable, you fix that by changing the motorcycle ergonomics.

We can all agree that BMW is not looking at a mainstream market in India and they have priced it accordingly. The 310 GS has a very specific niche. A high-quality, premium, lightweight, adventure tourer. There are two other options currently available in this category. The first is is the Himalayan which is less than half the price but is (and this is my personal opinion) a poorly built bike. The second is the Versys X300 which looks very promising but is more expensive than the 310GS by almost Rs.80,000 on-road.

We are seeing a shift worldwide to lightweight adventure bikes and these motorcycles serve that purpose.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Ajaybiz

Its not 3.5 L it's around 4.4 L for the GS Bangalore on road, BMW or even the dealer is not forcing anyone to buy so you can be happy without paying.
You can still own a Duke 390 at cheaper price and over 40 BHP. Or even Versys 650 with 75 plus BHP on tap under 8L.
It's not value for money bike and BMW is not known for the same and they were never in mass market.
Its just like having all the features even more in 15K vivo phone vs iPhone with limited features costing over 100K

Well for starters owning an iPhone is different from owning an Android, the iPhone runs off an optimized OS which is designed with the hardware in specific hardware in mind and would only seem out of place if Apple intentionally wants it to. Android on the other hand is a generic OS designed to run on a variety of hardware with a certain degree of customization based on the device and irrespective of that and irrespective of the variants an Android would eventually start to lag due to the way it is set up. So it is merely not the brand name that makes a difference here.

A better comparison would be between a Viva V1 and a Nokia 105, they both do the same things and they also belong to the same class but the latter costs 5 times more than the former but that is not where the story ends, there is consistent performance as well which is a good enough reason to spend the moolah especially with the on the spot replacement warranty.

As for the KTM vs GS argument, the KTM makes more sense on and off paper for once and that is something, the asking price for a locally manufactured motorcycle merely for the brand value doesn't seem reasonable as per me especially considering that the hardware offered is nothing to write home about.

But then again there are brands like Royal Enfield who do have splendid sales figures due to brand recognition and if that is what BMW is looking out for then ultimately it would sell like the former, but as a motorcycle enthusiast whose into hauling ass for miles at a stretch I find that the pricing isn't justified, not that I'd go for a KTM because I'm against the type of engine configuration philosophy that they follow but I would hope manufacturers with enough reputation for making commendable machines would focus more on doing justice as far as their offerings go, because in the end the D390 and RC390 are the same motorcycle but they play their respective roles without much complaint which doesn't seem the case with the G and GS especially the latter as much more was expected.

Originally Posted by ranjitnair77

You don't have to stand on the footpegs and ride . The 310GS has an excellent saddle and suspension so you can sit down and enjoy the ride as well.

There are many good reasons why it makes sense to stand up and ride on off-road and bad road conditions. It's better for your body, for controlling the bike and pretty much any other aspect of motorcycle riding. Do take a look at videos out there on this. This is also a big thing that they teach you when you do an off-road motorcycle training course. If the standing up pose is uncomfortable, you fix that by changing the motorcycle ergonomics.

We can all agree that BMW is not looking at a mainstream market in India and they have priced it accordingly. The 310 GS has a very specific niche. A high-quality, premium, lightweight, adventure tourer. There are two other options currently available in this category. The first is is the Himalayan which is less than half the price but is (and this is my personal opinion) a poorly built bike. The second is the Versys X300 which looks very promising but is more expensive than the 310GS by almost Rs.80,000 on-road.

We are seeing a shift worldwide to lightweight adventure bikes and these motorcycles serve that purpose.

I do agree with using our natural god given suspensions and lowering the center of gravity by having the ass of the seat and that is fun as far as cheap thrills go but when it comes to covering considerable miles it can be a problem which comes in the form of fatigue and hits your average moving time considerably, which has never been the case for me as my motorcycles ergonomics are customized for my intended use but I've ridden with a few who in spite of owning reputed machines kept poor average moving time but then again they were not on purpose built machines and that is expected from them but not a purpose built or so claimed motorcycle.

Hence you can't blame for expecting more at the given price tag and mode of manufacture that a manufacturer that has a reputation of making potent machines in the international market is offering this and for this price.

I do get that their trying to cater to a specific niche market but a little more was expected nonetheless. When Honda comes up with anything for the low displacement market and it is under-powered compared to competition then it doesn't bother you much, same goes for the Benelli though for different reasons, hence why I find it hard to digest the 310 being a motorcycle from BMW offers so less for so much, the design philosophy doesn't seem to go with the expectation, I do hope that my perception changes as ownership experiences come up because if not anything then at least they should be nothing less reliable than the Mojo's.

The Himalayan is well equipped, as far as hardware goes but their quality control sucks big time, same goes for most of the recent RE motorcycles, it is not the hardware or design philosophy that is to be blamed because in fact that is what the well informed target consumer expects. What needs to be blamed is their operations philosophy, it does not do any justice to its asking price irrespective of model.

Having had the opportunity to ride some indigenous motorcycles worked on by enthusiasts who're good with their hands I know exactly what to expect from a purpose built machine and so far from what I see and read that is not the case, anyways I'm still reserving final thoughts after actually throwing a leg over the motorcycle.