[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by BeantownThinker

The Thunderbird by them was purpose built to be a cruiser.

Quite interesting how a bike which is essentially 95% a Classic 350/500 is referred to as a "purpose-built" cruiser! Also interesting is the fact that, since it made for the longest stretches of tarmacs, it does not even have an overdrive top gear. OR absolutely no mechanical changes for the "purpose" of relaxed cruising. No offence to TB owners**.

**PS: I am a former TBTS owner and have fair amount of experience with the new TB500.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I am still not very sure of this. The one and only option available locally will be the Ceat Gripp.

TBH, neither can I predict the availability of the Ceat Gripps in the near future. I am assuming here that RE will ensure the availability of the 21" front for the customers unlike their pathetic episode with the CGT's PSD tyres.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by gthang

Is the frame new? Not a version of the GT? Thought only suspension was new.

From what I have seen and heard in the video from RE so far, the frame is not a bolt on from the CGT it is tweaked and engineered for Himalayan by RE and Harris Performance UK.

Interesting to see arguments from both sides, interesting since neither side has actually ridden the bike yet.

Mate you should see the video wherein CS Santosh(If you know who he is) is test riding the motorcycle and giving his feedback. He was also involved in developing the motorcycle. I haven't done even .000001% of offroad trail riding that CS Santosh has in his career, but among a few dozen off road trail riding that I have done on my Tbird and Standard I feel there is a lot of designing and engineering gone into this bike. Call it the suspension, chassis, tyre configuration, ground clearance, stance, peripherals are all new.

1. If the new engine does not have FI, and the logic being used is easy to repair(?!), by that same logic, why no kickstarter? No expectation of battery dying on a fully loaded bike going uphill?

When RE introduced the FI on their CL series they faced a ton of brickbats and was asked to switch back to carb. Now that they have switched to carb they are facing the brickbats again. Tough for RE! Also if there is an EFi in the motorcycle it would be nearly impossible to start it without a battery or kick start. If it is a carb in case of the same example given by you one can push it downhill and start it in gear while it is in motion. Although I agree with you on giving a kick starter on a carb bike.

2. How is the new engine going to cope with BS4 and higher emission norms? Or such trivial things are not important to the salt of the earth Himalayan?

I believe it will be compliant to the existing emission norms as it is a brand new OHC engine.

3. Why no ABS? Even if the really lame excuse of no service in the Himalayas were to be used again, didn't think that brakes would fail completely even if the ABS "brain" dies. So, why not?

Mate ABS is more of a bane than a boon on off road trails. Although they should have installed it with an option of switching it off while going on off road trails.

4. When ABS, emission control and therefore FI becomes mandatory by law, as early as 2017 perhaps, will that lead to a price increase for the "New" model? It should, only then would the first flock of guinea pigs feel better for rushing out and getting the R&D units.

Don't all the manufacturers do that until it becomes mandatory by law. Look at our beloved car segment.

How I wish this glorification of Mediocrity would end in this country.

Why is it wrong to strive for excellence? Because it cuts into profits? Pathetic.

This is a bit too harsh for a company like RE which has started seeing huge profits only post 2010 thanks to the CL series. At least they are trying with a new segment unlike other market leaders who have also been in India since decades.

Originally Posted by BeantownThinker

Howler, I actually know the difference between the ICONIC RD350 and the Rajdoot 350. The bike I am referring to is the one which was most used by milk-men to haul their huge milk cans around villages. Hope you can picture the bike I am referring to. If I remember correctly, Dharmendra appeared in the advert for this bike.

I am a bit confused here if it was the RD175 or the RD350, if it was indeed the RD175 then you need to do your homework mate. Secondly what's wrong with milk-men using it to haul their bread and butter. I mean are you downgrading the motorcycle or the men who used it for their daily living. If both were the case then the formidable legendary Honda Cub(used by a common man as well as pizza, bread, grocery, newspaper, etc. delivery boys) would've gone out of production long time back. It was the model that made Honda HONDA(what it is today). Another example is the iconic Jawa Yezdi which was also used by milk-men to haul their bread and butter. Does this mean the potential buyers frowned from owning a Jawa Yezdi? I don't think so.

Now, coming to the bike. I think you and I both agree that this surely ain't a commuter bike. This is also not a utility bike, cos let's face it that concept is too alien here. This bike is a lifestyle bike.

It is an ADV tourer mate. Whether one makes it a utility, commuter, cruiser, offroader or a lifestyle bike is left to his own and I respect that. No wonder the Hero Impulse died a premature death as "that concept is too alien here".

My entire post was on how confused a message I was getting in just looking at the bike. Sure, they have a brand new engine. Sure, they have a brand new frame. Sure, they have other brand new bits and pieces.

Care to explain what more do you want on an ADV motorcycle. Please do not say looks as that comes last when talking about ADV motorcycles.

But the question remains, do all these components go well with each other? I do not see any design philosophy in the bike.

The concept is too alien eh! You must see some ADV tourers available in the market today. Let me give you an example of the legendary Kawasaki KLR650. Also according to your statement the CEO of the company taking personal interest and testing it around Himalayas. Harris Performance UK giving their technical inputs with regards to chassis and design. CS Santosh torture testing it and giving it a thumbs up, be all damned right?.

The Thunderbird by them was purpose built to be a cruiser. The Continental GT was purpose built to be a wannabe cafe racer. At least they looked the part. But in this case I just don't get it!!

ADV tourers are built like this only mate.

I hear people say that this bike was 5 years in the making (I could be wrong in this) Well, if this is the design that they could come up, then they do not deserve any accolades.

An ADV tourer is all about purpose over design mate. Look at some of the ADV tourers and you will know what I am saying.

As the saying goes "First impression is the best impression", if just by looking at the bike I feel that the designers were in a confused state of mind then should I expect them to have fixed all the niggles that they are infamous for? I do not get that impression.

Well if you go back and read a couple of pages you will see how many have been floored by its looks and design. A service interval of 10,000 kms speaks volumes about the confidence they have in this product. 5 Years in the making and testing it mate, should have given them time to sort out the niggles.

It is this passion for Bullets that is making me be so hard on the company. It is not as though this is a start-up. They have been in existence for a long-time and do not have any problem in accessing the best of the technologies. Then why can't they get the design right?

I have given this example umpteen number of times. They did the same thing when Sid Lal took over RE and faced massive backlash from the fraternity. Does early 2000's Thunderbird AVL 5 Speed ring a bell. It was ridiculed and bashed over by anyone and everyone and also by people who never owned it. But it went onto become the best seller from RE and brought it out of the ashes. The same motor went onto Machismo and became an instant hit.

Mate I would like to know about this design thing that you have been mentioning all along. According to you how should an ADV tourer be designed? I am all ears.

I know BOV, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But then this beholder just cannot see the beauty. :-)

And I respect that.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Versys is a soft roader. It's intended so. You should also read my earliest posts on the versys which had me Gaga until I visualized going off road. I had already put aside the cash for the bike.

If breaking plastics while falling was the deciding factor for buying an ADV tourer then no one would've bought the Triumph Tiger, BMW R1200 GS, Ducati Multistrada, Kawasaki Versys, Suzuki V Strom, I will stop here as the list is endless.

Yes the 390 is nice and there's a whole new platform for next year.
The twins should be due out too. I am expecting colossal changes since it's KTM we are talking about.

Are there any ADV tourers from KTM hitting the Indian market any time soon? If yes then great, if not then we can discuss this on some other thread.

And the himalayan is not very Himalayan. Would have been perfect with 50 hp and fi on which a powertronics unit with switchable maps would have been perfect.

May I ask you what are you going to do with 50 HP(with powertronics and switchable maps) on offroad trails where speeds seldom hit 60 KMPH(very optimistic)?

All the above are facts. If they aren't, please let me know so I can correct them.

The motorcycle has been built from scratch is a fact, it was designed and engineered jointly by RE and Harris Performance UK is a fact and final nail in the coffin is that it was developed and tested by taking inputs from CS Santosh and Sid Lal himself is a fact. No motorcycle manufacturer in India has their own CEO testing the bike in the Himalayas and no motorcycle manufacturer in India till date has taken any inputs for developing and testing their ADV tourer from the industry's best(CS Santosh) on this side of the world.

Again I am not saying it is a perfect motorcycle none is. It is only that we should give RE a chance as they are at least giving ADV riders an affordable option to choose from.

[Red Liner]

I agree with you mate, I think a lot of us are being unreasonably harsh with re with our own personal requirements. My personal requirements don't meet fully what the himalayan offers,.... Maybe with the 750 twin....

[gthang]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

From what I have seen and heard in the video from RE so far, the frame is not a bolt on from the CGT it is tweaked and engineered for Himalayan by RE and Harris Performance UK.

You could compare images of the GT and the Himalayan and see if you can spot the differences in the frame.
Hope new engine mounts and seat extensions are not part of the "tweaking" package being marketed.
I have my skepticism about a UK racing company "tweaking" an ADV chassis on a track. But if it manages to "Market" OK, why not?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Mate you should see the video wherein CS Santosh(If you know who he is) is test riding the motorcycle and giving his feedback.

Without taking anything away from Santosh or his skills or achievements, neither I nor admittedly you, ride like him. Nor would I imagine any ADV rider. He rides offroaders to win races. I don't want his bike, I want a comfortable bike.

Also, was the footpeg breaking on the jumps reflective of the testing? So was he commenting on the bike after the peg broke, before, or what?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

When RE introduced the FI on their CL series they faced a ton of brickbats and was asked to switch back to carb. Now that they have switched to carb they are facing the brickbats again. Tough for RE!

Actually, if you can't get FI right the first time, the correct thing to do would be get the FI fixed. I don't see how going back to carb was even an option.

Originally Posted by navin_v8

I believe it will be compliant to the existing emission norms as it is a brand new OHC engine.

Would that be true after the many roadside mechanics have had their way with the carb? Either OHC tech has changed dramatically, or my idea of emissions is flawed.

Originally Posted by navin_v8

This is a bit too harsh for a company like RE which has started seeing huge profits only post 2010 thanks to the CL series. At least they are trying with a new segment unlike other market leaders who have also been in India since decades.

How many other Indian market leaders are still peddling decades old heaps at huge margins?
I can say with reasonable confidence that I could go into any two wheeler showroom in India, buy any brand new bike, be it a lowly TVS50, Pulsar, Dio, whatever, top it up with fluids and gas and ride cross country the next day without any major fears.

If you can say the same with any RE bike, please share what you are smoking.

Cheers

Ride Safe.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I agree with you mate, I think a lot of us are being unreasonably harsh with re with our own personal requirements. My personal requirements don't meet fully what the himalayan offers,.... Maybe with the 750 twin....

Mate I see that you are KTM fan. I have rode them KTM Duke's and it sure puts a smile on my face every time I ride em'. I mean this(Duke) is one motorcycle which you must respect else it will bite you and bite you real hard. If you are looking at larger displacement engine then Honda is launching their iconic Africa Twin model in India which is going to be assembled and manufactured here. But yes it will be in the price range of current 1000cc ADV Tourers or somewhat less as it is going to be locally assembled and manufactured here. If you want to wait for KTM's then nothing like it as they say once a KTM always a KTM like once an RE always an RE.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by gthang

You could compare images of the GT and the Himalayan and see if you can spot the differences in the frame.

They are not at all similar as the pic suggests (even if it does). The CGT uses a "double cradle" frame typical of street bikes right from RD350s to newer Triumph Bonnevilles (To quote a few) whereas the Himalayan uses a "Semi-Double cradle" ones which is widely used on dual-purpose/dirt bikes. RE calls the frame "Half-duplex split cradle".

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by gthang

You could compare images of the GT and the Himalayan and see if you can spot the differences in the frame.
Hope new engine mounts and seat extensions are not part of the "tweaking" package being marketed.

Just looking at the pictures for comparing the chassis and the inner frame one needs to have penetration mode in their eyes to look through the body.

I have my skepticism about a UK racing company "tweaking" an ADV chassis on a track. But if it manages to "Market" OK, why not?

You should have also seen it being tested at Big Rock adventure park for its off road testing.

Without taking anything away from Santosh or his skills or achievements, neither I nor admittedly you, ride like him. Nor would I imagine any ADV rider. He rides offroaders to win races. I don't want his bike, I want a comfortable bike.

For your information CSS was torture testing the motorcycle and giving his inputs while testing and developing the motorcycle. There are many manufacturers abroad who take serious inputs from professional riders to develop their motorcycles. You should also listen to his perspective where he says it will be easy for a common man to handle the power and the bike. It is not about racing here too mate. It is about the inputs RE has taken from a renowned professional rider.

Also, was the footpeg breaking on the jumps reflective of the testing? So was he commenting on the bike after the peg broke, before, or what?

I hope you have read about this a couple of pages back wherein RE has issued a statement that the bike was undergoing "torture testing" to rule out any issues. The breaking footpeg is now replaced with a sturdier one as per their statement. Again if you are skeptical on this then I can't help.

Actually, if you can't get FI right the first time, the correct thing to do would be get the FI fixed. I don't see how going back to carb was even an option.

They have said they want to bike to start even without a battery and basics tell me an EFi cannot start without a battery. Also adding an EFi unit will push up the costs IMO hence they stuck to the carb and also because many RE riders are wary of the EFi unit and want a carb.

Would that be true after the many roadside mechanics have had their way with the carb? Either OHC tech has changed dramatically, or my idea of emissions is flawed.

Mate there are modern motorcycles from foreign manufacturers that still use carb in their bikes. One classic example belonging to this class if motorcycles is the Kawasaki KLR650.

How many other Indian market leaders are still peddling decades old heaps at huge margins?

Hero with the legendary CD100 engine in its new avatars like Splendor, Splendor+, Passion, Passion Pro, etc. TVS Victor, Star City, Star City+, etc. and many more...

I can say with reasonable confidence that I could go into any two wheeler showroom in India, buy any brand new bike, be it a lowly TVS50, Pulsar, Dio, whatever, top it up with fluids and gas and ride cross country the next day without any major fears.

Many do it mate, riders define the purpose. While some motorcycles as well as the riders define the purpose. Both are different category choose as per their liking.

If you can say the same with any RE bike, please share what you are smoking.

I am not sure if I smoke or not but yes the fact that I have 5 RE motorcycles and barring one incident none have let me down while touring, Ever. May it be the Tbird AVL 350 or the Standard CI 350 or the Tbird500. I have taken them to hell and back in rains, sun, moon, heat, cold, etc. but none of them has let me down. Exactly the reason why I have clung to them. Cheers.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

RE calls the frame "Half-duplex split cradle".

Hey, thanks for the jargon illumination.

Could you also explain what is physically different from the two?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

I hope you have read about this a couple of pages back wherein RE has issued a statement that the bike was undergoing "torture testing" to rule out any issues. The breaking footpeg is now replaced with a sturdier one as per their statement. Again if you are skeptical on this then I can't help.

I did read the explanation. My question was whether Santosh was giving his recorded feedback after or before the incident.

If you are satisfied that a stronger peg is the solution, and that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the chassis for that to happen, you are just the kind of customer RE is looking for.

Originally Posted by navin_v8

They have said they want to bike to start even without a battery and basics tell me an EFi cannot start without a battery.

How can you accept that statement from the company when there is no kickstarter? Temporary loss of logic?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

I have 5 RE motorcycles and barring one incident none have let me down while touring, Ever.

I am glad for you and your wide range of Bullets. But I was not asking about your personal experiences. Would you have the confidence to tell someone to buy a brand new RE and take it cross country the next day without having to "get it ready"?

Cheers

Ride Safe.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by gthang

I did read the explanation. My question was whether Santosh was giving his recorded feedback after or before the incident.

Then you also should have read the statement from RE on twitter to amansanc where they clarified that the broken foot peg stand has been replaced with a sturdier one after the torture test. This incident happened while they were torture testing the motorcycle and CSS would've surely given his feedback After/During the test which they said they have rectified. You yourself told no one would push the bike to the limit as CSS had so a replaced sturdier foot peg would do the job and I can give a benefit of doubt to RE as they had the courage to speak up and clarify.

If you are satisfied that a stronger peg is the solution, and that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the chassis for that to happen, you are just the kind of customer RE is looking for.

Yes I am glad to put my money on a company which has the guts to come out publicly and acknowledge the incident and further clarify about replacing it with a sturdier part. Unlike some foreign companies charging up to a million rupees on their steeds and turning a blind eye on the issues on their bikes. As an RE owner I am also taken aback that RE has broken into the top 5 sellers(in terms of sales) of the country. Too many people buying it cannot be wrong at the same time. So whether I am that type of a customer or not does not really matter.

How can you accept that statement from the company when there is no kickstarter? Temporary loss of logic?

Mate no one would be able to kick start a motorcycle with a dead battery unless the motorcycle runs on a CDI unit. To start a motorcycle with a dead battery one needs to push start it(if you know how to do it) and for doing that the kick starter is not required. It is simple mechanical Logic. Heck many of the ADV tourers do not have a kick starter.

I am glad for you and your wide range of Bullets. But I was not asking about your personal experiences. Would you have the confidence to tell someone to buy a brand new RE and take it cross country the next day without having to "get it ready"?

Not trying to nitpick here but in your words, "If you can say the same with any RE bike, please share what you are smoking." I believe the highlighted word was directed towards me while you asked me what I was smoking. Moreover why should I say someone to buy a brand new RE people are buying it left right and centre. Mere me saying it will make no difference. About going touring on RE's at least the bunch of riders(others) I have been riding with never faced an issue while touring and potential buyers(others) who were sitting on the fence went ahead and bought a brand new RE motorcycle after watching us. There is no need to tell anyone per se. About "get it ready", basic checks like tyre pressure, battery condition, brakes, engine oil level, etc. does no harm and is a precautionary measure before one goes for touring. Cross country rally is a different ball game altogether wherein even motorcycles like BMW R1200GS, Kawasaki KLR 650, Honda Africa Twin, Yamaha Super Tenere, KTM ADV 1290, etc. riders need to "get it ready" before taking the epic journey.

Hey, thanks for the jargon illumination.

Could you also explain what is physically different from the two

Mate the fact that both these motorcycles use different suspensions upfront and rear. Moreover it uses a mono suspension with linkage at the rear dictating the chassis sure is tweaked for the Himalayan. Also that the outer frame is made to accommodate panniers which directly puts the pressure on the chassis. The way the outer triangle frame that flows from edge of the fuel tank to the rear seat shows that the chassis sure has undergone a change.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by gthang

Could you also explain what is physically different from the two?

I can. But I really don't think you are interested in that! You don't even have to read the following.

In a nutshell, it is finding a balance between the weight, flexibility and getting the job done. Road bikes demand a chassis with extreme rigidity and little but correct amount of flexibility. Dirt/dual purpose bikes, on the other hand, need more flex on the frame to iron out the shocks directed to the rider and the flex is also important to prevent the frame from breaking due to the thrashing from the dirt track!

The jargon "semi-double cradle" frame is a midpoint between single downtube frame (which is the most basic one) and the double cradle. It will still offer more flexibility than the double cradle but more rigidity than single downtube. Also it weighs less than the double cradle.

Science.

[Gordon]

It's really usual to see this kind of behavior and rants from old Enfield and non Enfield owners alike.

All these years from old models to new, from old designs to new, from "pure" thump to refined thumps. The worst I've heard was the light crank thump vs the heavy crank thump argument amongst the cast iron owners themselves.

When it comes to owning these bikes and living with them, we all know what a bi**h it is, how pathetic the service centers are.

YET, I still feel that there is no other company in India that comes close to the Enfield legacy. Almost five years before the cafe racer was launched I had built my cafe out of a machismo 350 and wondered why didn't Enfield come out with one. I was so happy they did. I accept I was very skeptical about it, but a test ride was enough to convince me they did a pretty good job. Yes you can get a 390 or cbr 250 for around the same price, but you will definitely not get the pride of owning a classic company built packed with goodies cafe racer.

And so it comes to the Himalayan too. Enfield Travellers I've seen or read about have modified their bikes to be better adventure tourers. From the panniers, to reduction in weight, to ground clearance, to handlebars, they all want them modified. And now you get a factory spec, all terrain tested vehicle from the company itself with all of the goodies as accessories. I'm excited. Of course until I ride it. Then I'll know better.

For the price, the continental gt and the Himalayan both seem bang for their buck.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Moreover why should I say someone to buy a brand new RE people are buying it left right and centre. Mere me saying it will make no difference. About going touring on RE's at least the bunch of riders(others) I have been riding with never faced an issue while touring and potential buyers(others) who were sitting on the fence went ahead and bought a brand new RE motorcycle after watching us. There is no need to tell anyone per se. About "get it ready", basic checks like tyre pressure, battery condition, brakes, engine oil level, etc. does no harm and is a precautionary measure before one goes for touring. Cross country rally is a different ball game altogether wherein even motorcycles like BMW R1200GS, Kawasaki KLR 650, Honda Africa Twin, Yamaha Super Tenere, KTM ADV 1290, etc. riders need to "get it ready" before taking the epic journey.

It was this vagueness and lack of clarity that I expected which prompted me to post the "smoking" bit.

Your reply is a little hazy. So, is that YES, you would confidently recommend to someone to take an RE from the showroom and go cross country?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Mate the fact that both these motorcycles use different suspensions upfront and rear. Moreover it uses a mono suspension with linkage at the rear dictating the chassis sure is tweaked for the Himalayan. Also that the outer frame is made to accommodate panniers which directly puts the pressure on the chassis. The way the outer triangle frame that flows from edge of the fuel tank to the rear seat shows that the chassis sure has undergone a change.

Sorry, I hoped you would have some substantive knowledge of frame/chassis/suspension.

A high dosage of fanboy jingoism is not something to mess with.

Peace.

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

I can. But I really don't think you are interested in that! You don't even have to read the following.



Science.

Sorry, not sure you understood my question. What is the physical difference between the GT's chassis and the Himalayan's?

Is either one of them single downtube?

Is there a source for your science?

Cheers

Ride Safe

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by gthang

It was this vagueness and lack of clarity that I expected which prompted me to post the "smoking" bit.

Your reply is a little hazy. So, is that YES, you would confidently recommend to someone to take an RE from the showroom and go cross country?

I don't think I should justify myself to you by answering your question in a Yes or a No. Moreover this is getting too personal. I don't know what are you smoking mate!

Sorry, I hoped you would have some substantive knowledge of frame/chassis/suspension.

Sorry to disappoint you but I shared what little I know and have heard from CS Santosh when he said about the handling and how the motorcycle behaves and how it is developed. There has been a detailed discussion about the suspension in the previous few posts. Take an effort to read through the same. Also there are people who were involved with the testing and development who have informed about this motorcycle being done from ground up mentioned in the previous posts. Take an effort to read through them.

A high dosage of fanboy jingoism is not something to mess with.

I got your intention of posting after reading this line. I you term placing one's observations and reasoning with fanboy jingoism then I am done with this conversation mate.

Sorry, not sure you understood my question. What is the physical difference between the GT's chassis and the Himalayan's?

I brought out the triangle shape frame (physical difference where it is more of an Equilateral triangle in case of CGT and an Isosceles triangle in case of the Himalayan) to your notice but you chose to ignore it I guess. Anyways I wont reply to your posts henceforth as reasoning and discussing is termed as fanboy jingoism is your parlance. Cheers.

[maker_of_things]

Originally Posted by gthang

A high dosage of fanboy jingoism is not something to mess with.

DISCLAIMER: None of this is fanboy jingoism.

Sorry, not sure you understood my question. What is the physical difference between the GT's chassis and the Himalayan's?

Is either one of them single downtube?

No, neither one of them is a single downtube frame. The Classics and the Thunderbirds were the last of the bikes from RE with a single downtube with the engine as the stressed member.

This is the dual cradle frame of the GT.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...1&d=1455016511

Whereas this is the half duplex frame of the Himalayan.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...1&d=1455016511

To quote Revzilla,

• The step up from the single-cradle frame is the duplex frame. Some bright fella realized that if two single cradle frames were run in tandem with some reinforcement tying them together, the frame would be vastly less flexible. The most famous early duplex frame was probably the Norton Featherbed of the 1950s, but many notable examples have been produced since. Related to the duplex frame is the half-duplex, which is sort of a blend of single-cradle and double-cradle (duplex) frames: They typically exist as a duplex section beneath the engine, but often include a larger diameter single tube in the spine and for part of the frame’s downtubes. The most famous half-duplex frame is probably the Harley-Davidson four-speed frame.

Is there a source for your science?

Source: http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread...e-frame-design

PS: I'm not sure how exactly to attach images to this post. Mods, if there's something wrong then do let me know so that I may rectify it.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I am not due back home (wherever that is) until may or June this year, hence my predicament. And hence I can afford to sit back and figure things out slowly.....

My apologies for being presumptuous. Yes, in your situation in makes complete sense to sit back and analyze the market offerings

The only suggestion I would want to make here is that also start thinking about the kind of riding you intend to do. Commuting, touring, track days, dirt, all of the above and more. The choice of bike does become a lot more clearer IMO

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I think my loyalties have shifted to KTM

For the price, 390 is the most versatile bike you can buy today. You can commute, tour, take it to the track and do some light off roading too. Heck, I even ferry my wife around on it, albeit with a strap on gel seat pad. Go for a used one, and ride its wheels off till you decide upon your next big purchase

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I do look forward to your suggestions

Thank you for the kind words. I am no expert, but will certainly try and help where I can with my limited abilities

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Hope we get to ride together sometime.

Definitely look forward to it

Originally Posted by gthang

Is the frame new? Not a version of the GT? Thought only suspension was new.

Looks like a new frame. Just compare the downtubes of this one with the GT

Originally Posted by gthang

Interesting to see arguments from both sides, interesting since neither side has actually ridden the bike yet.

No one, except a handful of lucky individuals have had the pleasure of riding it. I speak for myself, I am basing my comments on what I see plus first hand feedback from a fellow rider closely involved with testing of the bike. He is a very gifted rider and photog. The videos you are seeing now are his creations

BTW; What have you based your views on its mediocrity on? Ridden one yet?

Originally Posted by gthang

Just a few queries regarding the bike.

1. If the new engine does not have FI, and the logic being used is easy to repair(?!), by that same logic, why no kickstarter? No expectation of battery dying on a fully loaded bike going uphill?

RE's FI tech has been rather patchy. I have heard many a folks actually reverting to carb. Even the performance difference in FI and carbed 500 versions is miniscule; 1 BHP or something

No kickstarter, I can think of the following reasons:

- In the older bulls, including my 2004 AVL T-Bird; the kick starter really fouls with your legs when you ride standing up. This makes locking in your kness with the tank rather difficult. So its probably because of this that the bike was designed without a kick starter
- Cost? Although its a rather cheap addition
- Weight? Again, should not make much difference so possibly unlikely

Originally Posted by gthang

2. How is the new engine going to cope with BS4 and higher emission norms? Or such trivial things are not important to the salt of the earth Himalayan?

Why do you care? If a manufacturer's product does not meet the required emission laws and other sundry legislation, they cant do business. Its REs headache to make that happen, not mine and not yours

Originally Posted by gthang

3. Why no ABS? Even if the really lame excuse of no service in the Himalayas were to be used again, didn't think that brakes would fail completely even if the ABS "brain" dies. So, why not?

ABS would have been nice. It saved my bacon just today while riding to work and a few other times. I think its a cost thing, nothing else. How costly? Going by the CBR 250's example, the cost of ABS can be as high as 30k. I am assuming here; but am pretty sure that the design brief of this bike mentioned a market price requirement of similar or under the Duke 390. The VFM and the versatility of the Katoom simply cannot be ignored

Originally Posted by gthang

4. When ABS, emission control and therefore FI becomes mandatory by law, as early as 2017 perhaps, will that lead to a price increase for the "New" model? It should, only then would the first flock of guinea pigs feel better for rushing out and getting the R&D units.

These customers that you so politely refer to as guinea pigs are people who will have wilfully placed their (possibly) hard earned money in REs bank account. No one is forcing them to. When the next lot comes, its again the customer's choice to pick one of 'em Himalayans; whatever the price. What is the problem here; I dont follow

Originally Posted by gthang

How I wish this glorification of Mediocrity would end in this country.

Why is it wrong to strive for excellence? Because it cuts into profits? Pathetic.

What is mediocre? Lack of kick starter? Or that it does not have ABS? Sure we can choose to bash up RE for that, but what about hordes of manufacturers that do not provide this feature at even double (and more) than the (speculated) price of the Himalayan?

JAAO pehle uss aadmi ka sign leke aao ........

Originally Posted by tharian

.....they are going to launch this around the same price as the Conti GT and that is good pricing especially when the next bike we can get in the same type is lakhs away

Well said bud!

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

TBH, neither can I predict the availability of the Ceat Gripps in the near future. I am assuming here that RE will ensure the availability of the 21" front for the customers unlike their pathetic episode with the CGT's PSD tyres.

But thats the thing, isnt it? I did not get PSD, I got me a Secura sport. I have multitude of options from the market and am not dependant on the Bike manufacturer for this consumable

What do I do when my 21 inch tyre is worn out and there is no help from RE in sourcing one?