[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thank you for the tip! But how do you find out at the spares whether the unit is the old or the new one? Any way to visually make out? Alternatively, a part number or before which year to ask specifically for?

You said you did not need to dial in much pre-load. How many settings does it jave and which position worked best for you? And what is your weight?

Incidentally, I've never bottomed out my shocker. Not on tour with luggage. Not with a 60 kilo pillion. Not off road riding pretty hard. Not on street hitting the HUGE Poona Camp humps (like small hills) at speed with zero slowing down ... this chassis and suspension setup has frankly protected me from this tomfoolery multiple times!

Of course, standing up in anticipation and bracing and flexing at my hips and knees is second nature.

Cheers, Doc

Hey doc, I wish I could help you with the exact part number but I sold the bike last year. You can check out 99rpm. They are a reliable source of Bajaj spares online. This one below is the NS200 rear shock up to 2016 according to them.

https://www.99rpm.com/bajaj/rear-sho...sar-200ns.html

I can't assure you if the part number is 100% accurate. I need to find a parts catalogue for bs3 NS. Maybe Bajaj has discontinued the old shock since the new model fits on the old bike without any trouble. iirc, there was only a manageable obstruction when fitting the new-ish NS shock on D390.

[VijayAnand1]

The BS3 to BS6 NS200 from 2012-2020 and AS200 from 2015 to 2017 share the same shock absorber if my memory serves me right. The NS/AS200's shocks were a direct fit to the 390. The suspension came with 9 levels of adjustment, with 1 being softest and 9 being the hardest -- preload wise. The Nitrox meant that the bike had good rebound which was a perfect all-round cheap OE replacement vis-a-vis the expensive stock OEM WP. The Duke once loaded would be perfectly sprung even with pillion and track very well in corners with the NS/AS 200 shock with added option of custom preload setting as per rider weight.

Cheers!
VJ

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

The BS3 to BS6 NS200 from 2012-2020 and AS200 from 2015 to 2017 share the same shock absorber if my memory serves me right. The NS/AS200's shocks were a direct fit to the 390. The suspension came with 9 levels of adjustment, with 1 being softest and 9 being the hardest -- preload wise. The Nitrox meant that the bike had good rebound which was a perfect all-round cheap OE replacement vis-a-vis the expensive stock OEM WP. The Duke once loaded would be perfectly sprung even with pillion and track very well in corners with the NS/AS 200 shock with added option of custom preload setting as per rider weight.

Cheers!
VJ

Yes Vijay. But Bajaj being Bajaj they brought out minor parts changes over the years and there was a minor difference in the Nitrox canister flange. I had both 2016 and 2017+ shock when I was going to replace the 390 shock. Bajaj is notorious for having these minor changes over the lifecycle of a product despite the models looking identical. I remember ordering the front fork springs for my AS and finding out that the bs4 NS had different springs.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by b16h22

I had both 2016 and 2017+ shock when I was going to replace the 390 shock.

So moral of the story, ask for/specify BS3/2016 and earlier NS/AS nitrox shocker (golden canister, red springs).

Cheers, Doc

[doga]

Originally Posted by Dhruv Shetty

Around 850 ml of oil came out of the bike

Dhruv Shetty

850 ml? that's half of the allowance. Other than the sump bolt at the bottom there's one more on the front bottom which probably drains 200-300 ml. Did you drain from there? If yes, then I'd question the oil pressure sensor if you did not get low oil pressure warnings on the MID.
My bike seems to drink little oil also but definitely not at the rate your bike seems to be doing. The oil level is never quite in the middle of the sight glass when upright. I am attributing this to the age possibly requires an overhaul, new rings etc.
Regarding suspension have you done any fettling with the front? I am thinking of re damping but options are expensive. An andreani or ktech SSK piston kit would be awesome and some friends can even carry it from UK however it'd still be 50K . I had upgraded the suspension on my erstwhile Mille with Ktech SSK pistons and SKF seals and results were beyond belief. The damping achievable with these aftermarket kits are unbelievable. Also got to know today that they do sell springs separately however I am pretty sure there are no options for spring rates. YSS does a spring and preload adjuster combo for like 20k. Still expensive but may be worth it. Also don't see anyone mentioning it but the new dukes with adjustable suspension don't seem to have preload adjustment at the front? Only damping can be adjusted. Seems very odd.

[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by doga

Also don't see anyone mentioning it but the new dukes with adjustable suspension don't seem to have preload adjustment at the front? Only damping can be adjusted. Seems very odd.

The WP APEX suspension hardware is fully adjustable for compression, rebound and preload. This achieves that rare chemistry of tactile grip with the road and confidence-inspiring efficiency for the dirt. Damping at the front USD forks is of 30 clicks each for compression (preload) and rebound. The rear mono-shock is adjustable by 20 clicks for a rebound while retaining 10-step preload adjustability. This enables the rider to customize their ride quality, handling, and comfort as per their individual preferences.

In other words, compression is simply preload for the front. The amount of compression damping is simply the pre-load you add to the springs with the turn of the knob. The stiffer the preload, the quicker and stiffer the compression. Meanwhile Andreani have been for ages right from RC Cup days and they are expensive, but totally worth it, at least as per user reviews.

Same goes for YSS and the likes, but the ultimatum depends on what your usability really demands. If you're using it as a track tool, then each and every mod counts. If you're an everyday chock-a-block rider, don't bother much.

@b16h22, yup constant reiterations is Bajaj's policy of making straight and right.

Cheers!
VJ

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by doga

I am thinking of re damping but options are expensive.

Is the front really a problem for you? I measured rider sag for me at the front, fully kitted, and it was still a very sporty 40 mm, on a 10 year old fork and springs. I get great feel from the front honestly. Its planted and very good feedback in corners.

For me personally its the not tight enough in high speed corners, but still jackhammer on uneven bad surfaces rear suspension that I want firming out and steadying but not rebound hitting so hard, if you understand what I mean.

Cheers, Doc

[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by doga

850 ml? that's half of the allowance. Other than the sump bolt at the bottom there's one more on the front bottom which probably drains 200-300 ml. Did you drain from there? If yes, then I'd question the oil pressure s.

Yes you read it right it, around 900 ml of oil came out of the engine. The sequence I drained was - front bottom bolt then side drain bolt, oil filter and finally removed the clutch cover housing. Two reasons I burn oil is whenever I take out the bike, which is usually early morning or late nights, the revs are high, in the range of 5 to 10k and when on open National Highways like old Mumbai Pune, the bike is in the 100+ kmph range. Other reason, I've heard that the 7100 tends to burn oil quickly, will swap to a different oil in the next service to check. This January I got the oil pressure sensor changed.
Right now I am not getting the engine opened up unecessarly as this is a expensive affair and the engine is running perfectly like it's smooth and at the same time raw power delivery, mileage and say a rebuild is close to 60k from where I will get it done and the engine has some good components.

On the suspension part I just changed the oil to a heavier grade according to my riding style and the rear shock to the 2017 one. Now the front and the rear are in sync, before the rear was soft and front stiff. I had asked if I could just adjust the preload on the rear, but did some checking and found out that the internals and the spring have become weak. For my current skillset putting a aftermarket suspension will be a waste, as right now I find the current setup perfect for my use.

Cheers,
Dhruv Shetty.

[ebonho]

Went to Wagholi KTM today to get the spark plug replaced (ruling out one other possible cause), the oil filter O ring replaced, and the flow test and pressure test done on the fuel pump while the tank was raised.

Took the old O ring and a couple of others back as spares to hold my tool kit under the rear seat. Speaking of tool kit, Sachin very kindly presented me with a rear shocker adjustment spanner as well to add to my tool kit (it comes stock in the tool kit of newer KTMs,but was missing in ours).

Got the chain adjusted too (as suspected, it was way too tight) and a bit of gear oil sloshed on as well (happy to see the oldest and seniormost KTM SVC of the country too using 90 weight gear oil). It seems to be a tad loose now, and I can hear it slapping on the road at times, but the issue is that it tightens up at a few points, and we need to set the chain by adjusting for slack at those. The golden rule being better loose than tight.

The plug was replaced first. Sharing the photos of the old plug for experts to opine on rhe fuel mixing and burning. To my eye and the technicians, it looked really good. Perfect almost. Good mileage. Lively dry cappuccino color. Dry very light black ring on the base. Sharing photos!

The pressure reading of the pump seem to be spot on (just shy of 3 with ignition on and punp primed, and 3.1 with the engine running at idle in neutral). Mine is the Pricol unit. The readings for the Bosch units are different.

The flow is not as good as it needs to be on the 3 priming test. We did it thrice. First time 135 ml. Second time 120 ml. Third time, doing all 3 off-on primings inside 10 seconds, without waiting for the full flow to stop, it collected just 100 ml.

Took a test ride, and managed to replicate the starvation bog when I took the U turn around the highway median and finding a clear stretch on the return, whacked open the throttle in 2nd (or maybe 3rd I cannot say for sure ... but definitely way past the red blinking shift light).

When I came back and tild Sachin, and asked him to sit behind me, he asked the technician to do so. A brave guy! This run even with whacking the throttle open, we could not replicate the starvation bog. Bummer.

Sachin keeps asking me when this happens, and wgen I described this recent episode to me, he said it could be the built in rpm limiter cutoff that kicks in at 9000 or 9500 rpm in the lower gears. Hmmm could be. He says the spluttering after that is the ECU resetting itself and all parameters after the cutoff. So I promised myself to check, even though I'm pretty sure at the Tamhini ride all the way back the 5-6 episodes, were not preceded by a super hard pull that the pump was unable to supply fuel at the desired rate fir or the ECU was cutting off at a rev limit.

Headed home after settling the bill, and sadly at the end of the ride, a kilometre short of home, on the open Women's Council Road rip zone, I whacked the throttle open and got a semi bog that made me let off. So I WhatsApp-ed Sachin that this us basically happening when you are riding normally and suddenly whack the throttle open (not gradually).

Also, its pretty clear in these last 2-3 weeks if riding that the bike does not have her customary manic instant acceleration nor the top end (even though I've never seen the road fir testing that, I know how my bike jumps to 100-130 without effort, and I'm neither seeing that throttle response, not the numbers till now). Its a seat of the pants rider thing. Cannot be quantified. But same rider, same bike. So I know something is off.

Hope this update helps those with the same issues in the future.

I know where this is headed, and I can see Vijay rolling his eyes skyward and shaking his head. Lol

Met a puppy on a nicely done up Gen 2 390 and we got chatting. He is a vlogger apparently and was getting his bike ready for Rajasthan. He was admiring my bike, not believing it was a 10 year old bike, that too a 390, and I was admiring his. As our bikes were being worked on in parallel bays. He told me about the brass Rolon chain he was running. This was his second set, and he got 25,000 km from his first, after the OE standard one that lasted just 10,000 km. That's approximately how much mine lasted as well, so my next set (I've already replaced the knackered first set with a new standard set) I'm going to get this brass one. Looks trick too! Sharing photos of Venom (his 390) as well. Looks like a very naughty Duke - Adventure lovechild!















































Cheers, Doc

[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by ebonho

1. Got the chain adjusted too (as suspected, it was way too tight) and a bit of gear oil sloshed on as well (happy to see the oldest and seniormost KTM SVC of the country too using 90 weight gear oil). It seems to be a tad loose now, and I can hear it slapping on the road at times, but the issue is that it tightens up at a few points, and we need to set the chain by adjusting for slack at those. The golden rule being better loose than tight.

Doc, chain wear is not always even. Chain slack and as per manual should be measured from the tightest point of the chain and then the measurement/slack adjusted accordingly. A chain should be slackened/adjusted "AFTER" lubing primarily because once lubed, a chain/links will loosen up eventually increasing the slack/play. 90EP is the cheap/effective lube that works well with the only gripe that it makes a mess of the entire derriere of the motorcycle. Now, if the chain is tight irrespective of lubing and slacking, your chain is elongated and should be replaced as a set. Just curious how much has your motorcycle run?

Originally Posted by ebonho

The plug was replaced first. Sharing the photos of the old plug for experts to opine on rhe fuel mixing and burning. To my eye and the technicians, it looked really good. Perfect almost. Good mileage. Lively dry cappuccino color. Dry very light black ring on the base. Sharing photos!

If lighting wasn't at play here and the plug is ditto as it looks, then doc, you should kiss your motor. That is a perfect - near perfect combustion. Chocolate brown tip and electrode means the combustion is super spot-on considering no mods/maps done to the ECM. Amazed!

Originally Posted by ebonho

3. Went to Wagholi KTM today to get the spark plug replaced (ruling out one other possible cause), the oil filter O ring replaced, and the flow test and pressure test done on the fuel pump while the tank was raised. The pressure reading of the pump seem to be spot on (just shy of 3 with ignition on and punp primed, and 3.1 with the engine running at idle in neutral). Mine is the Pricol unit. The readings for the Bosch units are different. Took a test ride, and managed to replicate the starvation bog when I took the U turn around the highway median and finding a clear stretch on the return, whacked open the throttle in 2nd (or maybe 3rd I cannot say for sure ... but definitely way past the red blinking shift light).

The flow is not as good as it needs to be on the 3 priming test. We did it thrice. First time 135 ml. Second time 120 ml. Third time, doing all 3 off-on primings inside 10 seconds, without waiting for the full flow to stop, it collected just 100 ml.

Women's Council Road rip zone, I whacked the throttle open and got a semi bog that made me let off. So I WhatsApp-ed Sachin that this us basically happening when you are riding normally and suddenly whack the throttle open (not gradually). I know where this is headed, and I can see Vijay rolling his eyes skyward and shaking his head. Lol

Flow rate as is self-explanatory, is a measurement that's basically going to yield us the "flow rate" in ml or psi. Effectively doing the math 3.1 kg/cm2 yields us a value of 44 psi. The manual recommends 36 to 42 psi for a perfectly working pump. Considering pumping losses in the line, it's still a pretty good value for an acceptable fuel pump.

The bike at any throttle shouldn't bog i.e. starvation of fuel, though a milli-sec delay of sorts is acceptable when WoT especially with our old Duke's fuel mapping.

A bog, starve-induced miss all are pointing you know.. where... skyward and so are my eyes sans the nodding. On a lighter note, perhaps she bogs not because she's faulty, but not to scare the wits of an old doc so that he can enjoy the bike. Doc, sincerely enjoy the bike. If anything goes wrong Sachin and Sheri are to the rescue.

Cheers!
VJ

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

Doc, chain wear is not always even. Just curious how much has your motorcycle run?

If lighting wasn't at play here and the plug is ditto as it looks, then doc, you should kiss your motor. That is a perfect - near perfect combustion. Chocolate brown tip and electrode means the combustion is super spot-on considering no mods/maps done to the ECM. Amazed!

Flow rate as is self-explanatory, is a measurement that's basically going to yield us the "flow rate" in ml or psi. Effectively doing the math 3.1 kg/cm2 yields us a value of 44 psi. The manual recommends 36 to 42 psi for a perfectly working pump. Considering pumping losses in the line, it's still a pretty good value for an acceptable fuel pump.

The bike at any throttle shouldn't bog i.e. starvation of fuel, though a milli-sec delay of sorts is acceptable when WoT especially with our old Duke's fuel mapping.

Cheers!
VJ

Hi Vijay. Thanks for your point by point reply. Greatly appreciated as always.

Pruning your quoted post only to the relevant bits to what I'm replying to.

Yes, even though this is a brand new chain sprocket aftermarket kit I put on after my Sikkim ride (the original sprocket was GONE!), I believe the 6 year hibernation has not been kind to the rubber O rings. Some/many might have hardened, and are causing the uneven tight spots that frankly should not have otherwise appeared so early with barely any use to cause wear. As I said in the earlier post, will use it and hope the kinks even out (there was a lot of surface rust too if you recall from the first uncovering photos) and the chain wears and lengthens more evenly with regular use and cleaning and oiling.





















It's very clean and with zero residual rust now already in the thousand odd kilometres running after getting her moving again. So I'll use it till it wears out early (as I'm sure this set will) or a big ride is on the horizon, and replace it with a brass Rolon kit next. That's my thinking.





My bike has run about 12,500 km now. It's still fairly new. But yes, the plug looks great. And yes, it is natural light inside the workshop bay. Thank you! The workshop guys too loved the plug when they saw it. Touch wood. Even with my very hard city riding on my office commute and especially the return (which I look forward to), she's giving me around 170 km from tankful to low fuel warning, so around 24-25. On sustained high speed touring on highways, its 27. As you can see from the post Sikkim service photos above, this plug that was changed now, was put in new to replace the bike's original plug that had run the Sikkim 7,000 km ride. You can compare the old and new photos side by sude there too to see the plug color of predominantly highway running. Though not very clear.





Back to the pump, yes, as I've been told by more than one techie friend (like you) in the recent past (there is a select elite community of riders around the world today working on Doc's pump issues LOL) dlow and pressure are two completely separate things. My pump is apparently cranking out adequate pressure, per company spec definitely, BUT not adequate flow. The flow on pump priming at ignition on itself is compromised, but the bike is soldering on (NOT definitely at full earlier original performance) for 95-98% of riding or throttle position or rpm (both level and rate of gain). But at WOT, especially when whacked open suddenly in a lower gear with sudden spiking of rpm, is tipping the pump over into frank starvation, and its then bogging, and it then continues to bog and splutter along for some time till the ECU figures things out and while my wrist gives the throttle near complete rest, before it starts running and fueling smoothly again.

One update, since yesterday, of the 4 useful doable ones from two buddies yesterday (coincidentally, both Aussie, one in Melbourne, the other in Sydney), 2 were non invasive and easily done, while the ither two would require dismantling the pump again, and so I'm at the FI stage, and if it reaches there, I'm putting on a new pump (Pricol, one piece available only, and kept aside for me at the SVC) once I return from Seoul after the 10th.

So the 2 things yet untried, 1) change the air filter, even if its new, relatively unused and looks totally clean (like the rest if the bike, its been sitting in the bike dormant for 6+ years). And 2) Disconnect the battery (first -ve, then +ve), let the bike stand for 10 minutes, then reconnect the battery (first +ve, then -ve), start the bike, and let it run for 5 minutes, not touching the throttle at all at any time doing this.

I did the latter, and trust me, there was a perceptible HUGE difference in the feel of the bike after this, on my way to work! The missing snap and peppiness is back (don't know if fully back, coz I'm still not going Genghis Khan on the right wrist)!!! This is unmistakable for a rider who knows his bike. Felt the same on the return. No bogging even once. And mind you, the fuel was at 1 bar in the main and then low fuel was hit as well, so fuel level was really low too, as you can see in the photos.

Will fill up and go gradually more heavy and hard on the throttle and check. And report as always!

Cheers, Doc

[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Hi Vijay. Thanks for your point by point reply. Greatly appreciated as always.

Pruning your quoted post only to the relevant bits to what I'm replying to.

I did the latter, and trust me, there was a perceptible HUGE difference in the feel of the bike after this, on my way to work! The missing snap and peppiness is back (don't know if fully back, coz I'm still not going Genghis Khan on the right wrist)!!! This is unmistakable for a rider who knows his bike. Felt the same on the return. No bogging even once. And mind you, the fuel was at 1 bar in the main and then low fuel was hit as well, so fuel level was really low too, as you can see in the photos.

Will fill up and go gradually more heavy and hard on the throttle and check. And report as always!

Cheers, Doc

This is the old reset method followed by many. Though this hasn't been backed by solid evidence, it does seem to work. I've myself felt the bike feel sprightly after a battery disconnect. It seems it temporarily erases all the data and it starts afresh, but after a few hours it's the same. Keep observing. If this has solved the issue, very well. Do keep your observations jotted.

Cheers!
VJ

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

This is the old reset method followed by many. Though this hasn't been backed by solid evidence, it does seem to work. I've myself felt the bike feel sprightly after a battery disconnect. It seems it temporarily erases all the data and it starts afresh, but after a few hours it's the same. Keep observing. If this has solved the issue, very well. Do keep your observations jotted.

Cheers!
VJ

Yes exactly. That's what he said. He's a track rider who is now on his second Yamaha R1 M. And very comfortable hacking its ECU.

He says this wipes the slate clean. And the ECU then "relearns" your riding style over the next few rides.

No bog yet. Peppy clean acceleration .Speeds going up. 110 in 4th today. Before letting off at the end of the main flyover. 3rd ride. Filled in 5 liters with a sachet of Power additive.

Cheers, Doc

[saikishor]

I am planning on getting a used silencer to remove the db killer in it. Does the removal of db killer have any side effects? I love the stock exhaust of the bike but 1.5 years later, I want some change. A subtle change to put it in proper words. I like the sound of the stock exhaust without the db killer. Heck, even the BS4 bikes with db killers sound much deeper than the BS6 ones.

Suggestions on this will be highly appreciated.
Regards

[Dhruv Shetty]

Originally Posted by saikishor

I am planning on getting a used silencer to remove the db killer in it. Does the removal of db killer have any side effects? I love the stock exhaust of the bike but 1.5 years later, I want some change. A subtle change to put it in proper words. I like the sound of the stock exhaust without the db killer. Heck, even the BS4 bikes with db killers sound much deeper than the BS6 ones.

Suggestions on this will be highly appreciated.
Regards

It should be safe on the BS6 ones, as one of my friend has removed the DB killer from his ADV390.