[Insearch]

Just felt that I need to post this:

I have been enjoying my 390 for almost a year. The bike was supposed to be a stop gap thing, till the 690 came.
It surprised me and I have learnt to really appreciate it's abilities. On this very thread, I have been flamed by some friends, when I went a bit overboard praising it's cornering abilities and how it kept abreast of bigger bikes on a 50 Km stretch of meandering roads. (If you want you can check out post 2987. Try this link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...ml#post3555117
Well, since the 690 is not coming I decided to upgrade anyway, and do a few test rides. I tested the Triumph Street Triple, Speed Triple and the Tiger twins.
I was surprised how heavy they felt when breaking, followed by quick cornering. And now I can say this from experience that the KTM is too much value for too little money. Cannot think of another bike that has it's combination of light weight, acceleration, cornering ability and add on features (ABS, Clutch, Tyres, etc)
For those, sitting on the fence and going through this thread (wondering if the KTM will do justice to their money and time): While I am getting a bigger bike, I would rather ride the KTM through town and the 100-200 odd kilometers, of weekend riding, just to have that stupid grin! The KTM has all my respect.

[nasirkaka]

While I am getting a bigger bike, I would rather ride the KTM through town and the 100-200 odd kilometers, of weekend riding, just to have that stupid grin! The KTM has all my respect.

390 is a great value for money if one can ignore a bit harshness of the engine and a few minor niggles. after riding the 390 for 20k kms, i find the C5 to be too heavy and sluggish to the extent that i have put it up for sale. (a part of my still wants to retain it for all the time, effort and money spent on various modifications). The idea for a while has been to retain the 390, sell the C5 for a bigger bike. Was convinced on bonnie but came the scrambler news. Was sold on scrambler for its lightness, looks and ABS, but came the news of kawa versys 650. Between these two, the versys makes more sense for me, mainly cos its a more complete bike for touring with adequate power, adjustable windshield, dual head lamps ample of provision for luggage,lights, accessories etc, where as scrambler feels like an upgrade of 390. Also from price point, service and spares, kawa makes more economic sense for ducati. So i am hoping its going to be 390 and versys 650 for me for the nest 4-5 years. painful wait for the launch is already begun..

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

390 is a great value for money if one can ignore a bit harshness of the engine and a few minor niggles. after riding the 390 for 20k kms, i find the C5 to be too heavy and sluggish to the extent that i have put it up for sale. (a part of my still wants to retain it for all the time, effort and money spent on various modifications). The idea for a while has been to retain the 390, sell the C5 for a bigger bike. Was convinced on bonnie but came the scrambler news. Was sold on scrambler for its lightness, looks and ABS, but came the news of kawa versys 650. Between these two, the versys makes more sense for me, mainly cos its a more complete bike for touring with adequate power, adjustable windshield, dual head lamps ample of provision for luggage,lights, accessories etc, where as scrambler feels like an upgrade of 390. Also from price point, service and spares, kawa makes more economic sense for ducati. So i am hoping its going to be 390 and versys 650 for me for the nest 4-5 years. painful wait for the launch is already begun..

The Versys would be a great upgrade. It has more than just "adequate" power. And is a lot more bike than the Ninja 650. I too have my eyes trained on its launch. Though to be honest, the 390 can do most everything it can, almost as well. And the price you pay for that is really peanuts. So in terms of actual money on table time, I would still keep my hands firmly in my pockets till the KTM twins are launched, preferably the bigger one (unless the smaller one itself blows everything bigger in the sub-800 cc category away - a very likely possibility) and THEN take a call.

[Khodays]

Your spot on Doc, been going crazy with the Gt600 vs Versys, but I would like to try the versys once and am done for a while, 390, RD and the Bullet and my Harem is complete..

[man_of_steel]

Agreed that Versys 650 will be a worthful upgrade over the 390. But - no offence to anyone - I can't see anything the Ducati Scrambler is capable of doing that the 390 can't. Personally, I will wholeheartedly thrash my 390 in dirt or trails knowing that even if I drop it I can replace the whole damaged/broken part without blowing a hole in my pocket. But that will not be the case with Scrambler, which kind of defeats the scrambleish purpose for me*!

*That nonsense is strictly a personal opinion!

[Sojogator]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

... But that will not be the case with Scrambler, which kind of defeats the scrambleish purpose for me*!

*That nonsense is strictly a personal opinion!

Some reviews suggest that the Ducati is not really comfortable and strong enough for off roading. The Triumph scrambler does that job better. They also said that the scrambler is more of a tarmac to dust bike but if off road is what is required then the Triumph is the better choice.

[Khodays]

I wouldnt consider the Versys to be an upgrade to the 390, it will just add a different dimension to my biking interests, comfortable two up mile muncher which can zing when needed, the 390 is all pure unadulterated mental fun......

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Khodays

I wouldnt consider the Versys to be an upgrade to the 390, it will just add a different dimension to my biking interests, comfortable two up mile muncher which can zing when needed, the 390 is all pure unadulterated mental fun......

The travails of a man with a biker wife.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Insearch

Just felt that I need to post this:

The KTM has all my respect.

Very aptly summarized mate. Not that I am considering an upgrade or even have cash lying around for the same, but I do wonder if I ever did upgrade; what bike would let me:

- Commute daily to work in reasonable comfort (100 kms round trip)
- Offer mind blowing performance on the street. Frankly, I dont know what I would do with more power from a day to day riding perspective
- Gives respectable (23 - 25 kmpl) FE
- Is relatively easy and cheap to repair (parts are rather inexpensive)
- Allows touring with reasonable amount of comfort. Even with a pillion; mind you (with some mods to the rear seat)
- Offers so much equipment at so little price

All this at an exceptional price. Sometimes I feel people in this country cant see the good in something unless you hit them in the face with a sledgehammer. The world over it is being praised for its exceptional performance, despite selling at a higher price than the Jap competition. I cannot think of a more apt example for the saying - Ghar ki murgi Dal baraabar

Most people cant see beyond switchgear plastic and one wire that they see could be routed better. But then most of these people barely manage to complete 1K kms on their bike in a year and are more interested in staring at their bike parked in the garage. These wire / plastic / sticker issues obviously become more important in such cases

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

the versys makes more sense for me

Originally Posted by ebonho

The Versys would be a great upgrade

I am curious as to why that is. I have never even seen a Versys, let alone ride one. The only info I have is what the spec sheet tells me and nothing really jumps out at me as something special (over the already available Ninja 650s)

- It has 150 mm of suspension travel, exactly the same as the Duke (which is not exactly known for its plush / comfy ride)
- The chasis is the same as the 650s
- Its taller than the 650s. Could spell trouble for the shorter amongst us
- I believe the engine has been tuned to make more power down low in the RPM band. But the existing 650s dont do a bad job at relatively low revs either

Not trying to be a smart a** but am genuinely curious; have either of you ridden the Versys? If not, and your knowledge of the bike is limited to online reviews and spec sheets then what is it that makes this a bike worth waiting for? Basically, what can this bike do that an ER6N will not (maybe with a nice functional wind shield snapped on it)?

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

*That nonsense is strictly a personal opinion!

Totally agree with your nonsense

Originally Posted by ebonho

The travails of a man with a biker wife.

I also know it all too well

[Khodays]

Just to chime in, pls note, this is based on purely online info that I have managed to gleam on, the single most thing which is driving me for the versys is firstly, am a big guy, two up on KTM is just not happening, N650 tried extensively, but the 130mm ground clearance is a bit of issue, specially, if I want to take off to leh etc.The versys is 170mm with 20ltrs of fuel capacity.

For me personally, after the bullet and RD, one is little slow and has a mind of its own and the other has a serious drinking problem, I really havent been able to go two up comfortably without hassle long distances, and I have done the LEH circuit on both the bikes, the versys looks on paper atleast, to fulfill all these needs of mine like weekend rides and the long weekend ride and the yearly really long rides, so thats what is ticking off the boxes for me.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

- It has 150 mm of suspension travel, exactly the same as the Duke (which is not exactly known for its plush / comfy ride)

I was comparing the bike more to its semi faired and naked road siblings than to our 390s. Also, suspension travel alone is not the be all and end all of suspension setups. The Versys comes with USDs for one which the other two do not get.

- Its taller than the 650s. Could spell trouble for the shorter amongst us

True. But could equally be a virtue for the taller amongst us. It has a lot better GC than the other two as well.

- I believe the engine has been tuned to make more power down low in the RPM band. But the existing 650s dont do a bad job at relatively low revs either

The Versys still tops out above 200. Pretty decent for a big-ish tourer.

Not trying to be a smart a** but am genuinely curious; have either of you ridden the Versys?

Nope. But have ridden the Ninja and the naked siblings. And a close friend has hired one for a overland ride in SE Asia recently (he owns a Ninja 650) and he was more than impressed.

If not, and your knowledge of the bike is limited to online reviews and spec sheets then what is it that makes this a bike worth waiting for?

Photos and spec sheets was all we had before the Duke 200 hit our roads as well. I have yet to test ride a single bike I have owned, before I actually owned it.

Basically, what can this bike do that an ER6N will not (maybe with a nice functional wind shield snapped on it)?

It can seat you more comfortably.

It can seat your pillion more comfortably.

It can get to a petrol pump 100 kilometers further than the other two.

It can go over Bangalore speed humps (or more serious off-road stuff) without scraping its bottom.

You can attach hard panniers to it if you want, as well as a rear top-box.

You get better lights.

You get more suspension travel front and rear and beefier USDs.

You get a sump and header bash plate (I think).

You get an adjustable proper touring windscreen.

Am not so sure they share the same frame. In fact the Versys stuff is retro-fittable on the old Ninja frame and not on the new Ninja frame from what I've been told (of course with some tweaking).

Either way, except for the mag wheels (spoked would have been obviously better) and the considerable weight of the bike (but the competition weighs near the same if not more), the Versys is a very good touring machine. Checking all boxes left unchecked by its siblings. In fact its so good that many reviewers place it above the V Strome 650 in most parameters. And the V Strome has a pretty brilliant setup in its own right (especially the motor). With proper wheels and tyres, both look the part. The GT600 of Benelli to me at least looks too pregnant up front.

[nasirkaka]

I am curious as to why that is. I have never even seen a Versys, let alone ride one. The only info I have is what the spec sheet tells me and nothing really jumps out at me as something special (over the already available Ninja 650s)

- It has 150 mm of suspension travel, exactly the same as the Duke (which is not exactly known for its plush / comfy ride)
- The chasis is the same as the 650s
- Its taller than the 650s. Could spell trouble for the shorter amongst us
- I believe the engine has been tuned to make more power down low in the RPM band. But the existing 650s dont do a bad job at relatively low revs either

Not trying to be a smart a** but am genuinely curious; have either of you ridden the Versys? If not, and your knowledge of the bike is limited to online reviews and spec sheets then what is it that makes this a bike worth waiting for? Basically, what can this bike do that an ER6N will not (maybe with a nice functional wind shield snapped on it)?

In mycase, i have been looking at replacing my C5 with something more powerful, more oriented towards comfortable longer rides. I have been using the 390 for longer rides and it does well on the highway barring some not so major issues. There is Just an urge to upgrade to something new. something within 5-6L budget. (human nature)
Ninja 650 and Er6N for some reason never appealed. Loved the bonnie. A longish test ride of bonnie and found it to be a perfect marriage between a 390 and bullet.
Then came news on ducati scrambler and versys 650. Ofcourse have not seen them in real life, forget riding them. Impressions were based purely on reviews. I did see the versys 1000 in flesh, briefly sat on it, and liked it for how it looked and built quality. After going through the online reviews of versys 650, it did make sense to me. Versys may not be very different from its other 650 siblings, But it did strike some chord somewhere. Just like how the bonnie and the scrambler did. A lot would depend once the bike is launched here, whether its offered for test rides, and how its priced. Else i would be riding a tiger now

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

how its priced.

Its definitely not going to be priced between 5-6 lacs bro. Sad, but fact of life.

[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Its definitely not going to be priced between 5-6 lacs bro. Sad, but fact of life.

I meant Ex showroom

Hope they offer the hard panniers as optional, just like the GT600. With panniers 7.5 L OTR and i am interested.(give or take a few kays)

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Khodays

Just to chime in........

Thank you. Missed the ground clearance bit. Important!

Originally Posted by ebonho

I was comparing the bike more to its semi faired and naked road siblings than to our 390s

No confusion there Doc! I was merely comparing the "perceived nature" of this bike with a machine that I currently own from a (again perceived) comfort stand point

Originally Posted by ebonho

Also, suspension travel alone is not the be all and end all of suspension setups. The Versys comes with USDs for one which the other two do not get

Totally! But for someone who has precious little to his access beyond internet gyan on this bike, this is all I can infer without experiencing the bike. Did not know about the USD forks. Thats helpful

Originally Posted by ebonho

True. But could equally be a virtue for the taller amongst us. It has a lot better GC than the other two as well.

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by ebonho

The Versys still tops out above 200. Pretty decent for a big-ish tourer

More than decent. Especially whilst riding two up, its around 80 more than I would need. But again, if online reviews are anything to go by, its best suited for riding within the 80 MPH mark, beyond which it feels rather strained

Originally Posted by ebonho

A close friend has hired one for a overland ride in SE Asia recently (he owns a Ninja 650) and he was more than impressed.

Perfect comparo

Originally Posted by ebonho

Photos and spec sheets was all we had before the Duke 200 hit our roads as well. I have yet to test ride a single bike I have owned, before I actually owned it.

Sure. A detailed test ride will undoubtedly be better than just a piece of paper with info on engine cc and other misc. facts. More so if big bucks are in question. How else do you figure out which bike works for you. It may be praised the world over but you may absolutely hate it. No piece of paper will tell you that

Originally Posted by ebonho

It can seat you more comfortably

Probably. Other 2 650s are not too bad either. I know a guy who knows a guy who did Pune - Delhi in one day (22 hrs) and still has his bodily joints in working order

Originally Posted by ebonho

It can seat your pillion more comfortably

same as above

Originally Posted by ebonho

It can get to a petrol pump 100 kilometers further than the other two

Not really a biggie (for me). I actually deduct marks for the weight that sits up high (tank + fuel). The 650s IIRC have a tank range of around 300+ kms. Thats not bad at all. I mean, the greatest of iron butts would want a butt break before their butts break by around this time. If you are travelling away from civilization you will any way be carrying additional fuel. Not a huge plus in my book

Originally Posted by ebonho

It can go over Bangalore speed humps (or more serious off-road stuff) without scraping its bottom

Do Bangy guys scrape the belly pan of their 650s on the El'Ginormos? Cannot recollect reading something on those lines. That said, the world over Versys is primarily considered to be a Road going machine, with very very limited off road capabilities. GC should not be an issue

Originally Posted by ebonho

You can attach hard panniers to it if you want, as well as a rear top-box

Hard boxes will most probably be a paid option (or baked into the cost of the bike) & they will be EXPENSIVE. Plus I am personally not a fan of those

Originally Posted by ebonho

You get better lights

You get more suspension travel front and rear and beefier USDs

Yup

Originally Posted by ebonho

You get a sump and header bash plate (I think).

Dont think so. Could be an aftermarket part but online pics dont suggest this to be true

Originally Posted by ebonho

You get an adjustable proper touring windscreen

Not a biggie. You can get (better) one yourself (MRA / Givi)

Originally Posted by ebonho

Am not so sure they share the same frame. In fact the Versys stuff is retro-fittable on the old Ninja frame and not on the new Ninja frame from what I've been told (of course with some tweaking).

The basic chasis is the same IIRC. What differs is the rear (sub?) frame that makes attaching panniers easy

Originally Posted by ebonho

Either way, except for the mag wheels (spoked would have been obviously better) and the considerable weight of the bike (but the competition weighs near the same if not more), the Versys is a very good touring machine. Checking all boxes left unchecked by its siblings. In fact its so good that many reviewers place it above the V Strome 650 in most parameters. And the V Strome has a pretty brilliant setup in its own right (especially the motor). With proper wheels and tyres, both look the part. The GT600 of Benelli to me at least looks too pregnant up front.

Cant say whats better but yes, both the V-Strom & Versys are both praised by the reviewers. The GT 600 to me is neither here nor there. Save for a more comfy seat and a bigger tank I dont know what else it does that the 600i does not do (better?)

In the end, the only question that matters is how much will you be willing to pay; or rather how much is the Versys in your opinion worth over the existing 5.5 odd lac rupee ER6N for better:

- Suspension
- Lights
- tank
- (perceived) comfort
- Luggage (?)

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Else i would be riding a tiger now

That is one bike that truly appeals to me. Love the 800 XR. Truly a "do it all" machine IMO