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-   -   The KTM Duke 390 Ownership Experience Thread (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/138082-ktm-duke-390-ownership-experience-thread-118.html)

Duke Embarasses me again.
Was riding from Porvorim side in decent speeds of 60-70 Kmph in 5th gear, approached Mandovi bridge at about 45 Kmph in 4th gear, 10 meters in the bridge in heavy traffic, shifted to 3rd at about 35 Kmph and engine goes Kaput again and bike stalls in the middle of the road :eek:. The whole traffic comes to a halt behind me and I put the left indicator, put the bike into neutral, a couple of pushing the starter buttons, No result, push the bike to the kerb and vehicles pass by with their sympathetic / tche tche look on their faces and then I press the starter and the bike starts as if all is well :)

I might have observed that the engine went dead while I was shifting from 4th to 3rd gear at that precise moment. Embarrassing situation and something to really look into. Any pointers there??

Suraj, I come from the R15 background too and agree about the build quality. But this is a different animal altogether. I too have seen the vibrations and was initially worried about it. But I think they will remain. So I am getting used to it!

Note from Support - Post edited. Please avoid using excessive dots between words as it makes for a difficult read.

No bro mileage will not increase. Riding in b-to-b traffic will worsen it.
Left Foot peg vibration is prominent when the chain is running dry. Lube the chain and try.

I had this experience twice in 2 days. No pattern whatsoever. Happened once when engine was just warm and once when in normal operating temperature. But both the times when clutch was disengaged to shift down.

It might be a coincidence. But after these 2 incidents I cleaned the air filter and it has never happened again.
Also, blipping the throttle the moment clutch is disengaged might help the cause. But yes, there is a small issue somewhere.

I haven't faced any such issues, yet. Just thinking out loud here, I might be completely wrong. One thing I've observed is that the engine just shuts off without warning(lugging) when the engine rpm is low. You said it happened while changing gear, so I'm guessing the engine rpm went too low when you depressed the clutch to change gears and hence the engine died. Maybe the Idle speed control motor is reacting a little late?

Edit: Like Added_flavor mentioned, blipping the throttle will mostly prevent this from happening.

As it is I am getting around 20kmpl. Blipping the throttle will drop the mileage some more.

For those of you where the engine is dying while engaging clutch, please adjust the throttle play, make it more tight. This happenned to me in the first 2 days of my use where I realized that although I had the trottle twisted a bit, it was only free play and no gas was going in which led to the engine dying while slowing down clutching. Once it was tighter, this was fixed and never faced it again.

Be really careful to leave a tiny bit of play else you will be throttling the engine while braking!

Not using Good riding practices should not be used as an excuse to gaining more milage. Change your riding style and you will see more milage. Blipping the throttle shouldn't become a problem then.

The throttle play is regularly adjusted by me with about 2 mm free play.

I have noticed that whenever clutch is disengaged, the ECU increases the engine idle speed to make sure engine doesn't die. But there is a slight delay between disengaging the clutch and idle speed increasing and this is the point where engine dies. This of course is not a regular occurrence.

So during this intermediate delay point, blipping the throttle ensures engine doesn't die, is what I meant. Keeping minimal throttle play and/or keeping the throttle open by ~5% should also have the same final outcome.

EDIT: Ideally, the engine should not die without throttle input and that's where I think the problem is.

I have never heard of the idea of letting out the clutch without adding a bit of throttle when starting from a stop.

Is this something the riders in India do often?

For what it's worth, every automobile and motorcycle I've ever owned that has a standard transmission will die if I let out the clutch without adding some throttle to keep the engine running. I've come to think of this as normal.
After all, the engine at idle speed is just getting enough air/fuel to keep it running without a load.

I suggest adding a bit of throttle while letting out the clutch so that there is no chance of the engine dying rather than expecting the ECU to recognize the added load and adjusting the speed.

As a sidenote, the ECU on the fuel injected motorcycles controls the ignition timing and the air/fuel mixture ratio. I don't believe it has a way of adding additional air to the inlet valve so expecting it to add to the engine speed to compensate for a increase in the engine load is not ((IMO) logical.
Of course, I've been wrong about the KTM. Perhaps it has a seperate variable motor that regulates the throttle plate in the injector body? Sort of a "fly by wire" system instead of a throttle cable?

On the other hand, you can ride this 390 without your hands on the throttle at 5kmph in 1st gear and around 10-12 in second gear. Give it a try and you will know what i am talking about.

I do this in traffic where its just the idle rpm that makes the bike move and my hands a busy on the tank watching the traffic :)

How you let go of the clutch takes care of stalling.

And its not different from any car or bike. At almost 1400-1600 RPM Idle speed the bike has enough MBT to manage this.

Remember, in bullet by managing the idle speed you can actually ride without a throttle cable which some of us would have done to go get the cable fixed when it popped out !!.

I've tried this quite a bit in the city cycle. Hands still on the bars and zero throttle input. In fact; I pop first and all I keep doing is releasing and engaging the clutch. A little carelessness can lead to a stall though.

There are a couple of solutions to deal with a throttle cable snap for motorcycles like the Enfield, Yezdi, etc. You can remove the throttle cable sleeve and keep tugging at the throttle cable. One hand riding though. The other option is to turn up the idle screw on the carburettor. This should apply for just about anything with a carburettor.

Sir I am not talking about letting out the clutch with zero throttle input. Of course any petrol engine will die when this is done.

The issue/discussion here is about the engine dying upon disengaging the clutch = when clutch lever is pulled in.

On the D390, as many have been reporting across forums, the engine dies when the clutch lever is depressed to shift down a gear when in motion. This happens randomly in any gear/speed when the clutch lever is pulled in.

The work around suggested is to keep minimal throttle play and/or blip the throttle/keep the throttle open a little bit to ensure the engine idle speed (when clutch lever is pulled in) doesn't go below normal and die out.

This is when I mentioned that when the clutch lever is pulled in, ideally the engine should not die out without throttle input and it should idle at the usual 1500-1700 RPM on the KTM.

I hope I am clear this time and apologies if my previous post was not clear enough.

Never expereienced this in my Duke. But usually in a non fuel pump based bikes its usually the battery being weak or spark plug not providing enough power.

In this case it almost feels like the fuel pump or fuel filter could be a culprit with some dust or something that is probably not feeding the right amount but getting itself corrected. I am just guessing in the air.

Just a bit of online search lead me to this. The 390 has a ISC (Idle speed control) stepper motor.

Page 7 in Source

Quoting what I found from another article about the stepper motor. This is written in relevance to a car, but it is applicable here too

I am sorry I don't know from where in this thread you got the idea that letting off the clutch without adding a bit of throttle when starting from stop?
The issue we had was while the bike was running at a fair speed ( say 40-50 Kmph), with the throttle ON, suddenly the engine dies. I have also noticed that during gear shift, the engine dies ( the speed is again say 40-35ish).
of course at that speed, during riding, whilst changing gears one would not close the throttle totally ( who would want to twist the wrist all the way), so a little bit of throttle is always there and there is blipping of course. So the point is under normal riding conditions, under normal throttle at decent speed during gear change when the clutch is engaged, the engine suddenly dies. engaging clutch does not mean killing the throttle.

Hahaha. No we riders in India ride the same way as other riders around the globe ride.

I have tried this on my Duke. the bike moves in 1st gear without any throttle. the bike maintains the speed of about 9-10 kmph without any throttle (idling) and even at 2nd gear, with zero throttle, the bike moves at about 13-14 Kmph without stalling. Even a slight upward gradient does not stall the bike moving without throttle in 2nd gear. so it is possible. I have checked it out.
My guess is the Bike being very light at 139 Kgs (+ rider weight) and with a powerful engine is able to pull it off.
Yes sir, I agree, and that is how most of the riders ride, there is always a bit of throttle during gear change.

The paradox is a bike that can traverse without any throttle (0 throttle) in 1st and 2nd gear, dies at a much higher speed at the right gear with some throttle. If some one tries to ride the bike at 25 Kmph in 6th gear I can understand that the engine dies, but not when the bike is doing 45 Kmph and is in 3d or 4th gear with some throttle

I'd look at some things here;

1. A electrical short or some problem with the clutch lever safety switch.

2. Side stand sensor/switch acting up causing engine shut down.

3. Defect with Engine Kill switch. Someone did post that their engine kill switch packed up on the 390.

4. Some bikes come with a safety feature that cuts the engine if the bike tips over a certain angle. It is a crash safety feature. This could be acting up.

If each of these have a easy remove snap fit connector or spade, I'd try removing it and checking if the engine dies out of the blue, while on the move.

What you folks are experiencing is highly dangerous.