[VijayAnand1]

Originally Posted by Ratan Prabhu

First of all, I am thankful to aargee for his comprehensive list of question answers that had cleared my doubts almost over 8 years ago. Thanking him pretty late for it. But better late than never.

I have few queries.

1. I have read the optimal gear shifting patterns mentioned in the original post so as to avoid lugging too. Off lately I have come across few people on YouTube claiming to ride their CBR250R at 50-55 kmph on 6th gear (in city). This for me is an impossible scenario as I have never been able to ride below 70kmph on 6th gear without lugging. Hence I always prefer to upshift to 6th gear after crossing 80kmph on highway. I wanted to know what is the speed you guys have experienced lugging on the 6th gear ? For me it is anything below 70.

2. I am experiencing mild engine oil leak from the "weep hole". I have double checked it now and it is actually from the weep hole and not due to bad oil filter cover gasket which I thought was the culprit. Some research online told me that the oil seal near the mechanical seal needs to be replaced. Is this correct ? The Honda ASC said the same but the oil seal isn't in stock and said it will take over a week for it to arrive. Has anyone else experienced this ? Is there any way to order it from somewhere ? If so, I would want to order mechanical seal and oil seal both.

3. I bought the bike in Jan 2012 (October 2011 manufactured bike) and it has been 35,300 kms which is fairly low. I have never changed the shims. Since day 1 the bike has been "7/10" in terms of smoothness/refinement if u have to rate it. I am just wondering if I need shims to be replaced ? Manual doesn't say anything about shims. But since it has been 10 years now, thought few changes should be important even after low mileage of 35,300 kms.


Regards
Ratan

1. The CBR's gearing is what makes the gear shifts either a great experience or an abysmal one depending on the scenario the bike's ridden in. Don't bother about YouTube and people's riding preferences, barring a categories of channels, mostly it's garbage that's being motivated out there. Now, coming to the "YouTube"speed scenario. I've had many instances in highways where I had to brake and come down to the almost 50 to 60-ish from 110+ in 6th gear get over the speed hump and coast along without downshifting. Now, how it's done is pure physics and basic understanding of one's motorcycle's engine characteristics. When you have controlled speed coupled with momentum, you can move over an obstacle in the gear you are, all you need to do is open the throttle smoothly so that the engine revs smoothly. Sudden inputs at high gears and slow speeds is what causes knocking and stall. Remember, it's a balance of both and I would advise you not to do it, if you aren't comfortable.

Go along with the motorcycle, feel comfortable with the motorcycle and how you can get the maximum power out of each gear, that's the key. Some people ride without engine oil and some with it, but either way you know which motor is gonna last long.

2. The weep hole or the tattle tale hole as they colloquially call is so called the blood brain barrier of the engine. It's the point where the coolant is mostly under pressure, the water pump. If you observe oil leaking, your water pump aka mechanical seal is starting go bad. If it's water or oil you see coming out, it's time to visit the SVC ASAP.

3.The CBR's engine is very smooth, even with the noises that it accumulates over the period, it's considerably smoother than most two wheeler engines out there. If it ain't broke why fix is the mantra I follow. If the smoothness level is acceptable and there aren't any peculiar sounds or ticks emanating from the engine at or above 5k RPM there's nothing to worry. The manual recommends INSPECTING the valve clearances at 7k kms and 25k kms.



Now that you're hovering around the 36k, if you'd like to get the clearances inspected, that shouldn't be a cause of concern.

Good luck, and hope it helps.

Cheers!
VJ

[Ratan Prabhu]

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

Now that you're hovering around the 36k, if you'd like to get the clearances inspected, that shouldn't be a cause of concern.

Good luck, and hope it helps.

Cheers!
VJ

Thank You VJ for your responses to all my queries.

The service center nearby me I visited for the weep hole leak said that it is due to faulty "oil seal" and said they don't have it in stock.
I will visit another ASC and see if they can do something. Will get the valve clearances inspected too.

[Ratan Prabhu]

Update -

Showed the weep hole leak issue to another service center. This time it was shown to Sameer from Venetian Honda (kandivali). He is one of the well known CBR mechanics in ASC in Mumbai.

He said that the company no longer supplies seperate oil seal or mechanical seal. The only solution to it is fitting a new cover all together. (New cover = clutch cover = that entire right side engine cover where we fill engine oil and fit oil filter thag entire section).
He said the clutch cover comes with factory fitted mechanical seal and oil seal and is also is in stock at the ASC. The part itself would cost 3500 and the labour and tax would make the total cost to be max 4500.

He also suggested me off the record to look for the clutch cover outside as I might get one in 2-2.5k in Mumbai.

Meanwhile he also said he will try to find if he can get a new Oil seal.
Ideally the mechanical seal and oil seal needs to be replaced together. But he will see if replacing only the oil seal (if he finds one) can do the trick.

So I will wait for his call and meanwhile try to search for clutch cover.

I had also come across a person on Facebook who claimed to have had few unsold stocks of the BS3 CBR250R from 2017/18 and since it wasn't sold, he has all the parts from it which he sells to people who do not get spares from the ASC. I contacted him straight away and he said he has the clutch cover (including mechanical and oil seal factory fitted in it). He said it would cost 2k for it and 100Rs for the gasket. So total 2.1k.

So if I buy it from him and get it fitted by the ASC off the record, the total cost for me will be around 2.5k (as against the 4.5k I had mentioned earlier)

My question is - should I go for this and save my 2k. Or should I go for brand new one from ASC whose total cost would be 4.5k ?

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Ratan Prabhu

My question is - should I go for this and save my 2k. Or should I go for brand new one from ASC whose total cost would be 4.5k ?

Personally I would go with ASC. Why?

Accountability

Not that ASC knows everything, but, even if something goes wrong, they're accountable to fix & convince to your satisfaction & ofcourse nothing beats factory fit & no juggad work!!

Even if I've to buy from outside, whomsoever is doing the service, can assure the same warranty guaranty; but still a big NO because, one problem arises to another raises to another eventually leading to a niggling issues losing the reliability of the motorcycle!!

Ofcourse, I would buy parts for my Rx from outside; why? Because I know to troubleshoot & fix the root of the issue.

So point is, if I can troubleshoot & fix the root of the issue, I would opt for saving some money, otherwise, let the ASC do the job & give the same reliability.

But that's me

My question is - What's more important? Accountability & reliable motorcycle or savings in 2K

[Ratan Prabhu]

Originally Posted by aargee

Personally I would go with ASC.

Even if I've to buy from outside, whomsoever is doing the service, can assure the same warranty guaranty; but still a big NO because, one problem arises to another raises to another eventually leading to a niggling issues losing the reliability of the motorcycle!!

My question is - What's more important? Accountability & reliable motorcycle or savings in 2K

Thank you aargee.
Then il consider getting the full right clutch cover work done from ASC for 4.5k if Mr. Sameer can't get the oil seal for me. Still keeping fingers crossed that he gets the oil seal and my issue gets fixed in just 500-700 Rs. Fingers crossed.

PS - Have you come across such an issue of engine oil leak from the weep hole ? I saw some posts about it on cbr250 . Net . All were from US. But none on teambhp or xbhp. It seems the issue isn't a common one among Indian CBR.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Ratan Prabhu

Off lately I have come across few people on YouTube claiming to ride their CBR250R at 50-55 kmph on 6th gear (in city).

I ride my CBR only on highways, but the SouthKerala highway is more or less like city roads in other states (narrow road & traffic).
Riding @50-55kmph in 6th gear without lugging is tough for the bike. 60kmph or more is IMO the bare minimum to get to 6th.

I personally hate the gearing of the CBR (too many gear changes needed all the time) and see it as a lone grouse in an otherwise good bike.
Not sure if this is due to the general low-torque-at-low-rpm characteristic of Honda engines, seen commonly in their cars.

[Ratan Prabhu]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I ride my CBR only on highways, but the SouthKerala highway is more or less like city roads in other states (narrow road & traffic).
Riding @50-55kmph in 6th gear without lugging is tough for the bike. 60kmph or more is IMO the bare minimum to get to 6th.

I personally hate the gearing of the CBR (too many gear changes needed all the time) and see it as a lone grouse in an otherwise good bike.
Not sure if this is due to the general low-torque-at-low-rpm characteristic of Honda engines, seen commonly in their cars.

Yesterday on a good long empty stretch of road, I purposely tried shifting to 6th gear at 55-60 kmph speeds. I had to keep good control over the clutch and very mild acceleration to ensure the revs built up gradually.

After that, I decided that it is better to not worry about it and rather not be on 6th gear at any speeds below 80.

6th gear is still OK at 70 kmph but TBH anything below 80 kmph doesn't seem natural for 6th gear.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Ratan Prabhu

Thank you aargee.
Then il consider getting the full right clutch cover work done from ASC for 4.5k if Mr. Sameer can't get the oil seal for me. Still keeping fingers crossed that he gets the oil seal and my issue gets fixed in just 500-700 Rs. Fingers crossed.

PS - Have you come across such an issue of engine oil leak from the weep hole ? I saw some posts about it on cbr250 . Net . All were from US. But none on teambhp or xbhp. It seems the issue isn't a common one among Indian CBR.

I faced the same dilema as you did, not exactly but similar.

Since my bike was up for a saddlesore run my friend wanted to get the clutch prematurely changed, unnecessary on a motorcycle with around 30k on the odo but then his anxiety was understandable considering he had to drop previous 2 runs midway due to mechanical failure.

And it is only commonsenical to contemplate overhauling the water pump since the clutch cover is anyways being taken off. But we faced an issue with spare availability and a friend and fellow enthusiast suggested replacing the cover as a whole which seemed sensible, however unlike you we couldn't source that as well.

So my suggestion is to go for a new cover and packing, you may buy the cover from the shady dealer provided it is new but not the packing. A used packing is a used consumable it is plain stupid to re-use a consumable.

However I would like to suggest that you couple it with changing your clutch as well if it is due or even close considering that the ASC is charging a premium in the form of labour.

As for the water pump seal giving up, it is dependent on use and isn't uncommon in the Indian context, in fact it is part of the package of owning a liquid cooled motorcycle, the upside of the CBR is that you have a weep hole, cause in the KTM's you only know things have gone south once the oil starts bubbling or have already turned to milkshake.

Now coming to speeds and gears, you needn't need to ride in 6th gear all the time, ride in the gear that is most comfortable for the Motorcycle, and just cause a person who weighs 60kgs can do 50 in 6th gear doesn't mean someone who weights 120kgs can also do the same, especially on the CBR250R that doesn't have enough oomph in the low to mid range(reason for the excessive shifting when riding in traffic), also to add road elevation and wind resistance also add to load hence it's best to listen to the motorcycle than to the internet.

Hope that helps.

[Ratan Prabhu]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I faced the same dilema as you did, not exactly but similar.

So my suggestion is to go for a new cover and packing, you may buy the cover from the shady dealer provided it is new but not the packing. A used packing is a used consumable it is plain stupid to re-use a consumable.

However I would like to suggest that you couple it with changing your clutch as well if it is due or even close considering that the ASC is charging a premium in the form of labour.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Ashwin.
Yes, if the ASC mechanic is not able to get the oil seal for me, I will go for brand new cover like Aargee suggested too.

Btw, just for my clarity,
When you said packing, it is same as Gasket right ?
And when you said also changing my clutch, it meant clutch cable right ?

And yes, stopped bothering about 6th gear low speeds after seeing all the responses here and also on xbhp. Guess I shouldn't go by whatever I see on YouTube. On my bike, nothing below 75 kmph on 6th gear seems "natural" so il continue riding it how ive done in last almost 10 years which is not to shift to 6th unless i reach 80 kmph.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Riding @50-55kmph in 6th gear without lugging is tough for the bike. 60kmph or more is IMO the bare minimum to get to 6th

50-55 Kmph, use 5th gear, problem solved

Or pls wait until the cylinder loses its compression after which 55 Kmph & 6th gear rides smooth without lugging.

There're no issues with gearing of CBR 250R, not sure about Honda cars.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Ratan Prabhu

Btw, just for my clarity,
When you said packing, it is same as Gasket right ?

Yes, Clutch Cover Gasket.

And when you said also changing my clutch, it meant clutch cable right ?

Not the cable, that you can change anytime.

I meant the friction and steel plates, also taking them off would give you an idea about your basket, if there is play or if the tabs have slotted then it is better to replace the basket as well along with the plates. All this is subject to spare availability but just mentioned as it is what I would've like to do if my clutch cover was anyways being taken off, unless say the motorcycle has clocked abysmally low miles on the current clutch.

[Ratan Prabhu]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I meant the friction and steel plates, also taking them off would give you an idea about your basket, if there is play or if the tabs have slotted then it is better to replace the basket as well along with the plates.

That would be too much of an expense and I am not having much issues aside from the engine oil leak from weep hole. That too I'm hoping that the mechanic manages to get the oil seal replaced without replacing the mechanical seal.
The 4.5k total is the max I'm willing to spend if it comes to replacing the entire right side clutch cover.

Btw, never replaced clutch parts.
It is an October 2011 manufactured bike which I purchased in Jan 2012 and in these almost 10 years, have only clocked 35.4k kms. Most of these were from my MBA colg days.
The current usage is barely 3000 kms a year and that is the reason I'm trying to not spend much unless super necesary (like the weep hole leak)

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by aargee

There're no issues with gearing of CBR 250R, not sure about Honda cars.

It's pretty noticeable and the cause of which is pointed out in below post. Which btw is also the reason for the same in Honda cars.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

...especially on the CBR250R that doesn't have enough oomph in the low to mid range(reason for the excessive shifting when riding in traffic)...

[aargee]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

It's pretty noticeable and the cause of which is pointed out in below post. Which btw is also the reason for the same in Honda cars.

Sir, you forgot one more point...
Same person, same post, just adding few missed, yet pertinent points marked in bold, to which I too agree...

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Now coming to speeds and gears, you needn't need to ride in 6th gear all the time, ride in the gear that is most comfortable for the Motorcycle, and just cause a person who weighs 60kgs can do 50 in 6th gear doesn't mean someone who weights 120kgs can also do the same, especially on the CBR250R that doesn't have enough oomph in the low to mid range(reason for the excessive shifting when riding in traffic), also to add road elevation and wind resistance also add to load hence it's best to listen to the motorcycle than to the internet.

Edit
Infact AP Sir's point is so relevant that I've to take back my statement...

Originally Posted by aargee

...pls wait until the cylinder loses its compression after which 55 Kmph & 6th gear rides smooth without lugging

When I used to weigh nearly 80 Kg, the bike was lugging at 6th & 75 Kmph; offlate I've been observing even at 6th & 55 Kmph the engine was barely out of lugging (all tested over the same roads & identical traffic conditions for a decade). I thought the bike has been losing it's compression due to normal wear & tear, but I forgot that I now weigh barely 68 Kg.

Let me test this with 2 up on same roads with identical traffic conditions & write my observation

[Ratan Prabhu]

Originally Posted by aargee

When I used to weigh nearly 80 Kg, the bike was lugging at 6th & 75 Kmph; offlate I've been observing even at 6th & 55 Kmph the engine was barely out of lugging (all tested over the same roads & identical traffic conditions for a decade). I thought the bike has been losing it's compression due to normal wear & tear, but I forgot that I now weigh barely 68 Kg.

Just for reference, I'm 5'11 and 80 kg
For me, on 6th gear, bike feels the best when at 80 kmph or above.

Funny coincidence, guess your weight in KG is directly proportional to the 6th gear speed in KMPH when it comes to lugging. Just kidding