[funda2max]

Originally Posted by GTO

You haven't driven a turbo-diesel before have you? It's not the torque that's the problem here....the 1.3 diesel is a pretty peppy unit.

It's the Turbo-Lag! You need to give her some more revvs before taking your foot entirely off the clutch. Just a matter of getting used to, I guess.

If you do want to improve matters (read = more power / torque), get a Petes box.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I took TD of several other vehicles like Vista Quadrajet, Swift D and Punto D. Among these, Swift D has very good low end torque. I took the vehicle to service center and technician verified and did nothing

Today I installed K&N (Rs 5000/-) and felt the difference in first drive. Car picks up in second gear and i could drive at very low RPM (850-900) without much trouble. I am planning to go for a longer drive this week end, will post my experience after that.

[Kannan]

Originally Posted by gaddiwale

I too drive a Ritz Vdi and I would say it has tremendous pulling power (torque: 190 Nm @ 2000 rpm) in comparison to the petrol engine (Swift) 113 Nm @ 4500 rpm (Ritz vdi - 75 PS @ 4000 rpm vs Swift Petrol - 88 PS @ 6000 rpm). Theoritically, if you looked at the power-torque curve there are more usable power as well as torque in the lower band than petrol engines. But practically the Turbo starts at 2000 rpm and once it reaches that mark the car moves like a rocket. But there is a tourbo lag below 2000 rpm, to overcome that you have to play with the gear shift. What I experienced - in a bumper to bumper traffic one can roll the car in first gear with out pressing clutch pedal and no sign of stalling. In little more relaxed traffic once I up shift to 2nd @ 1200-1500 rpm the car suddenly start rolling like mad. The engine itself a peppy one (as mentioned by GTO also), just try to upshift once you reach 2000 rpm in any of the gear. You'll experience the same feel of a petrol engine car. Happy driving.

I agree, Ritz Diesel Torque is not bad, my engine has never stalled. Even if I don't use accelerator, with 5 peple of average 70 kg sitting inside the engine still pulls at first gear.

But I feel the turbo lag little annoying, I over come it by shifting to lower gears and wow the pickup is just great. I wish the turbo switches at atleast 1500 rpm.

[kailashnj]

hi Funda2max,

What K&N filter did you install in your Ritz, is it the stock replacement or something else.

As for Pete's, I would suggest why don't you look at other alternatives like the Racechip. Website is Chiptuning von RaceChip - Prof. Motor Tuning gnadenlos preiswert. I have installed it on my car and the car has just transformed to a sprinter. Torgue is tremendous. Also the chip is available for 1/3 the price of Petes and does the same. I paid 11k all inclusive for the chip. Suggest you can try it out.

Regards,
Kailash

[headers]

Originally Posted by funda2max

I am having issues in low speed torque of Ritz VDi, sometimes engine switches off due to low torque. Is there a way to increase low speed torque? I need your advice to do some modifications. My questions are

1) K&N Air filter - Replacing Stock filter with K&N which costs around 5K, will it improve low speed torque?

2) Pete Tuning kit - Costs around 28K - Will it improve low speed torque? I know it works well at high speeds, not sure about 1000-1500 RPM range.

Thanks

I'm afraid you gotta change your driving style! You seem to be stalling the engine

Originally Posted by Mi10

How can the same engine at same tuning levels have different characteritics in 2 not so different cars ?

Swift VDI and Ritz VDI are essentialy the same engine and share all components from engine internals to gear box ratios. The difference however, is in design and to an extent chasis - which will only contribute to handling and high speed cornering differences.

Accelerating form 100 to 130 with full load, with gear being common will essentially be the same for both cars - the difference if exists will be very marginal - that maybe attributed to the (kerb) weight of the vehicles

Just my though - may not be entirely right

What about gear ratios as well as final drive ? Are they same too?

Originally Posted by Psycho

I assume that you are mentioning about the rolling of the car when you release the clutch which doesn't seem to be happening your case hence the stalling in traffic. Would recommend that you go back to the service center and request them to up the idle by an additional 100 - 150 rpm. that would be the best solution to your problem.

Just my thoughts too - But can you increase idle alone?

Originally Posted by wildchild4lyfe

hey i think if you change your driving stile a tad bit i think you should be fine..

Originally Posted by Kannan

I agree, Ritz Diesel Torque is not bad, my engine has never stalled. Even if I don't use accelerator, with 5 peple of average 70 kg sitting inside the engine still pulls at first gear.

But I feel the turbo lag little annoying, I over come it by shifting to lower gears and wow the pickup is just great. I wish the turbo switches at atleast 1500 rpm.

A little re design and the turbo can kick at 1500 rpm. But the manufacturer has to do that!

Originally Posted by kailashnj

hi Funda2max,

What K&N filter did you install in your Ritz, is it the stock replacement or something else.

As for Pete's, I would suggest why don't you look at other alternatives like the Racechip. Website is Chiptuning von RaceChip - Prof. Motor Tuning gnadenlos preiswert. I have installed it on my car and the car has just transformed to a sprinter. Torgue is tremendous. Also the chip is available for 1/3 the price of Petes and does the same. I paid 11k all inclusive for the chip. Suggest you can try it out.

Regards,
Kailash

Superb Kailash, you have any reviews before and after to demonstrate the same?

cheers

[chncar]

I have a Ritz Diesel that has run around 500 kms. I find third, fourth and fifth gears to be brilliant, and the car is just great for highway cruising.

However I find it very hard to drive in traffic, especially when compared with a petrol car, which is strange because I thought a diesel would be much easier at low speeds. The problems is not so much with torque, I think the torque is adequate and the vehicle can be moved at slow speeds with just clutch and brake and no accelerator. The problem is any speed higher than inching forward.

Even second gear is ok though the engine screams and groans like an old donkey at anything more than 35 kmph.

I find first gear to be the real pain. I know its mainly to move the vehicle, but there are some situations where second is too fast and you need to go on first. The petrols I have driven typically can manage up to 10-15 kmph without too much problems in first gear. In the Ritz Diesel I see:
Beyond the barely moving speed, the engine seems to stress and strain a lot to move any faster, once it has reached around 10 kmph the engine is already past 2500 rpm and is growling.
For want of a better way to describe it, I think the engine braking in first is too much, i.e the moment i let off the accelerator in first it slows down dramatically to almost standstill, without rolling forward much by itself. Also, unlike a petrol where some light taps on the accelerator are enough to keep the car moving at a slow speed, it only results in jerky/jumpy movement as the car moves forward when you tap the accelerator only to dramatically slow down as soon as the tap is over.
I often feel the car rolls/moves much faster at half-clutch in first gear rather than with the clutch fully released.

Can anybody advise if this is normal behavior for the diesel car? If so what would you suggest for me to improve my driving style?

Or is this a problem that I should take up at the first service? Will this get smoother as the car gets run-in?

[ch.nathan]

Originally Posted by kailashnj

I have installed it on my car and the car has just transformed to a sprinter.

Hi Kailash,

On which car have you installed - Punto?
How did you source it? Do they ship to India?
Will it suit Palio MJD?

[Honda_Power]

Originally Posted by sushrutha

Apart from the above mentioned. Get a good Free Flow exhaust, exclusively modified for low end torque.

@sushrutha: i doubt if FFE can make any impact on the diesel engine.
One of my friends had a discussion with Raj and he did not suggest
FFE for the diesel engine. Even Shabbir was against it.

Moreover diesel has more torque any day than a petrol engine.
Its harder to drive in traffic as it needs time to shoot upto 2k RPM.
And then when the turbo kicks in it just flies. Again the disadvantage being
engine braking which takes a hit at that torque level [i.e not as effective
as petrol]

@funda: Did you get a stock replacement filter or conical one?
Also update your feedback with the filters on.

Cheers, Happy Revving.

[headers]

Originally Posted by Honda_Power

Again the disadvantage being
engine braking which takes a hit at that torque level [i.e not as effective
as petrol]

Sir, Can you please explain the above? I did not understand the engine braking taking a hit ... part

[anachronix]

@chncar, I believe this discussion is about getting rid of the bad turbo lag upto 2K RPM in the DDiS. The Pete box might help!

@Honda_Power, why would the torque work against engine braking?! If you could explain...

[Honda_Power]

Originally Posted by anachronix

@chncar, I believe this discussion is about getting rid of the bad turbo lag upto 2K RPM in the DDiS. The Pete box might help!

@Honda_Power, why would the torque work against engine braking?! If you could explain...

Correction Guys! I did not mean to say at that torque, engine braking is less
though it is portrayed like that.

All i meant is Diesel engines do not maintain a throttle vacuum as they do not have an intake throttle. The fuel itself is the throttle, and thus diesel engines are not subject to the same engine braking effects as petrol engines.

[headers]

Originally Posted by Honda_Power

All i meant is Diesel engines do not maintain a throttle vacuum as they do not have an intake throttle. The fuel itself is the throttle, and thus diesel engines are not subject to the same engine braking effects as petrol engines.

Sir, In modern CRDi engines, the fuel is cut off the moment accelarator input is not there. The reason you feel that way might be because of:

1. Incorrect tyre pressure
2. Inherent difference in characteristics between a modern petrol and diesel engine. [For instance the Compression ratio!]

[sushrutha]

Originally Posted by Honda_Power

@sushrutha: i doubt if FFE can make any impact on the diesel engine.
One of my friends had a discussion with Raj and he did not suggest
FFE for the diesel engine. Even Shabbir was against it.

Yep speaking purely in terms of TURBO LAG, nothing much can be achieved by FFE for the same.
Whereas I feel, FFE can slightly increase the lower end torque in petrol engines.
May be the experts were/are right for the Diesel engine.
I would suggest a Pete's tuning box.

[drkritik]

Originally Posted by kailashnj

hi Funda2max,

What K&N filter did you install in your Ritz, is it the stock replacement or something else.

As for Pete's, I would suggest why don't you look at other alternatives like the Racechip. Website is Chiptuning von RaceChip - Prof. Motor Tuning gnadenlos preiswert. I have installed it on my car and the car has just transformed to a sprinter. Torgue is tremendous. Also the chip is available for 1/3 the price of Petes and does the same. I paid 11k all inclusive for the chip. Suggest you can try it out.

Regards,
Kailash

Sir can You post the details about the car and the kit? Will this void warranty ?

Originally Posted by sushrutha

Yep speaking purely in terms of TURBO LAG, nothing much can be achieved by FFE for the same.
Whereas I feel, FFE can slightly increase the lower end torque in petrol engines.
May be the experts were/are right for the Diesel engine.
I would suggest a Pete's tuning box.

I own both VDis; Swift (at home, less driven by me) and Ritz (my current car)
I feel, it is the Turbo Lag in lower RPMs which feels troublesome at times with Ritz. It is not appreciable either in Swift or Ford Figo. The same thing is better with Ritz at higher RPMs or speeds above 100kmph as it feels very easily maneuverable & rock solid stability at the same time.

Initially, I used to have the same problem, was using the clutch all the time in City driving, Now I have adjusted my driving style accordingly keeping a higher RPMs & down shifting appropriately; It feels quite OK now.

My questions to the Seniors here are

Can we make the Turbo Kick at a lower RPM (say 1300)? if so how?

Can the car be modified in such a way that whole range of Torque is made available in all the gears, without much adjusting the RPMs?

[Honda_Power]

Originally Posted by headers

Sir, In modern CRDi engines, the fuel is cut off the moment accelerator input is not there. The reason you feel that way might be because of:

1. Incorrect Tyre pressure
2. Inherent difference in characteristics between a modern petrol and diesel engine. [For instance the Compression ratio!]

Ultimately it boils down to the option # 2.

@sushrutha: for petrol engines, i feel it depends on the type of the
header design. Ultimately you can make the stuff respond
to either low/medium or medium/high torque.

[avinash_m]

Since the topic of discussion has only been on the diesel variant (until now), I'd like to request the experts to comment on the petrol variant as well.

I have a VXI (ABS) and have always felt the need for better low-end grunt (in 2nd gear). Understand that an FFE might help mattters to an extent but how about a universal air filter, is it possible to fit one on the K-12 engine? Sometime back while browsing through the net, I came to know that it can't be fitted with one due to a MAF sensor setup in Ritz, unlike the Swift which has bolt-on filters available from the likes of Cosworth and K&N. Is this true? Mostly, I saw people going in for the replacement filter, which I really don't want.

Please advise!