Zen prep for hi-performance street driving

scorpian · 11th July 2009, 12:50

hi guys,
Am looking to mod my mpfi zen for track racing,the zen was being used by my mum and we recently got ourselves a santro,so the zen is back to me and frankly i dont want to dispose it...currently i am planning to do stage by stage mods as that would help be judge the performance gain as well as be kind to my pocket.

My plan is.
1)Race dynamics standalone.
2)Complete exhaust
3)Air filter
4)Plugs.
5)Maybe a port/polish job

I do have in mind a piper 285 cam,but iam unclear about what mods will the head require,i was told by a respectable tuner that just installing the cam wont give you the 100 percent gain..

He has recommended to bore the unit to 1300cc but as of now i would like to keep things simple,plus the cost of 1300cc boring,cam,pistons,oils etc etc i have been given a quote of 124000/-which is off my budget.

So guys please chip in with your ideas..

doomsday · 11th July 2009, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

hi guys,
Am looking to mod my mpfi zen for track racing

Are you planning to drive competitively for instance in the national racing championship? If yes, you can't just go out and mod it the way you want as there are a set of regulations to be kept in mind while prepping the car. If you want a street drive then its a different issue.

scorpian · 11th July 2009, 13:05

Well for starters at the moment lets just keep it as a daily street drive......I want the car to be a fun drive ...i hope you get the point

adi99 · 11th July 2009, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

He has recommended to bore the unit to 1300cc but as of now i would like to keep things simple,plus the cost of 1300cc boring,cam,pistons,oils etc etc i have been given a quote of 124000/-which is off my budget.

1300CC is a good idea but the price quoted is way too high. You can buy a old second hand esteem at that price.

scorpian · 11th July 2009, 13:37

Heres the quote...

Engine rebuild 124000 (with full exhaust , Pistons, Cam & Oils)
ECU 26500
Gearbox 25000 (short ratio)
LSD 70000
Body strength lightning with fibre body panels 65000
Filter HKS 8500
HKS Spark plugs 6400 (4 plugs, each plug 1600rs)
Suspension 25000 (KONE)

siddartha · 11th July 2009, 14:26

124000/- for engine rebulid - for how many engines?

doomsday · 11th July 2009, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Heres the quote...

Engine rebuild 124000 (with full exhaust , Pistons, Cam & Oils)

Even if you include the Piper cam and 1.3-litre stroker, its way too much. Come on, Suzukis are all about going fast for cheap- this ain't cheap by a long shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Gearbox 25000 (short ratio)
LSD 70000

Short ratio gearbox costing 25k? Way off again.
Why would you need a LSD for the street?

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Body strength lightning with fibre body panels 65000

Why is it needed for the street? You will be plonking a ~100bhp 1.3-litre engine into a Zen, not a B16 with ~170 horses. No lightning and all that needed. Zen is light enough from the factory for that kind of power. Will keep you fairly busy and entertained as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Suspension 25000 (KONE)

Guess you mean KONI. This is a good investment for any car. But only for the street.

GTO · 11th July 2009, 20:59

Don't miss out on better tyres & a performance suspension, especially if you intend to start practicing on the track. Only question : You are based in Mumbai. What track?

scorpian · 11th July 2009, 21:52

@Siddartha
Yes when i got the pricing i was shocked too,

@doomsday
Thanks for replying and yes i too feel zen is pretty light and needs no further lightning.

@GTo
Yes upgrade of tyres and brakes will be surely on the list,well the car will be moving to Goa shortly and more so it will be a lot of fun driving it on the highways since i do a lot of highway runs

Iam thinking of not touching the gearbox,just the engine but how do i go about it?

Should i go for the 1300cc conversion that is boring the existing one and fitting larger pistons etc am not looking for an engine swap coz i dont want cop trouble anytime in future.

So will the 1300cc conversion on the existing engine be good or stick to the current one and get a head job and apiper cam in to it??

Basically the figure mentioned after a standalone,exhaust,intake,cam was said to be a increase on 30% which i suppose is around 18bhp(as told by tuner) so if the stock zen is 60 then after this mods say its 78bhp,thats a pretty good gain but frankly iam quite unsure about the 18bhp figure...

Guys pls suggest what way should i go

adi99 · 12th July 2009, 02:16

The answer is in your post, "go for the 1300cc conversion that is boring the existing one and fitting larger pistons etc". I have done it and its fast and torquey. If you are not happy, then try head, port polish etc...

Since you have a mpfi zen, a standalone from Race Dynamics would be too good.

doomsday · 12th July 2009, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Iam thinking of not touching the gearbox,just the engine but how do i go about it?

Should i go for the 1300cc conversion that is boring the existing one and fitting larger pistons etc am not looking for an engine swap coz i dont want cop trouble anytime in future.

So will the 1300cc conversion on the existing engine be good or stick to the current one and get a head job and apiper cam in to it??

Basically the figure mentioned after a standalone,exhaust,intake,cam was said to be a increase on 30% which i suppose is around 18bhp(as told by tuner) so if the stock zen is 60 then after this mods say its 78bhp,thats a pretty good gain but frankly iam quite unsure about the 18bhp figure...

Guys pls suggest what way should i go

A 1.3-litre swap is a virtually no-hassle way of finding more grunt from a one litre motor. If possible go for the entire 1.3 motor (head/block/injectors/ECU/harness/ distributor etc.) as it will save you a lot of pain. You don't have to worry about cop trouble since one needs an expert eye to identify the difference between a 1 litre, 1.3 or a 1.6 single-cam Suzi G motor. To a normal guy (like a cop), they all will look the same. You can retain your one litre engine or trade it in for a complete 1.3 and save some bucks in the process which can be utilised for other mods.

A 1.3-litre G13 from an Esteem will make about ~85 ponies at the crank. With a cam, I/H/E, PnP and RD ECM you can easily expect some 15-20 horses or more freed up. So there you are- ~105 stallions in a Zen can be quite a lot of fun. As GTO said, keep rubber and suspension always into the equation and even brakes too, if the budget allows (you can swap in Esteem type II stuff).

An all-round well finished daily driver can be a lot of fun unlike something that just goes fast in a straight line and fails everywhere else- as you mentioned highway driving will be a core requirement so the entire dynamics package should be really well sorted out to avoid any unwarranted incidents.

Hope this helps.

P.S. It won't hurt to get quotes from other tuners for the job before you start work.

JayD · 12th July 2009, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

He has recommended to bore the unit to 1300cc but as of now i would like to keep things simple,plus the cost of 1300cc boring,cam,pistons,oils etc etc i have been given a quote of 124000/-which is off my budget.

So guys please chip in with your ideas..

Why do you want to bore the current engine? A 1.3L swap with an esteem engine would be far more reliable, cheaper, and will have more mod potential too.

i think your current 'tuner' maybe taking you for a ride, any knowledgeable person would recommend a swap instead of going through all this work on a stock engine.

Psycho · 14th July 2009, 18:13

I would reccomend that you reach out to more people before you even think of the mods. The list you have on the first post are good enough to get you going. If you want more do the same set of mods with a 1.3.

mura · 14th July 2009, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

Heres the quote...

Engine rebuild 124000 (with full exhaust , Pistons, Cam & Oils)
ECU 26500
Gearbox 25000 (short ratio)
LSD 70000
Body strength lightning with fibre body panels 65000
Filter HKS 8500
HKS Spark plugs 6400 (4 plugs, each plug 1600rs)
Suspension 25000 (KONE)

6.4k for a set of 4 Plugs

HKS is just rebadged Denso.

Spark plug, Spark plug wire, spark plug gap, spark plug cross reference and ignition wires at Sparkplugs.com

scorpian · 14th July 2009, 20:04

Hi guys,
Let me first thank you al for all your replies,well i have decided to do a little more research and then set sial accordingly.

At the moment my mind has narrowed down to get the car set up in banglore,one of the reasons being that i will be in bangy for a month or so,so i guess that will be a good time to get things done.Any suggestions for good and non fleecing type tuners in banglore?Am thinking of Raj Hingorani,have read good views about him,and would really appreciate if you guys could also suggest something or your views about his work.

My options
stock motor,polished/ported,change in compression,standalone,exhaust and a intake job...

option two is plonking a esteem engine in to it,which is a good option but i have just 50k and i dont think the swap will come in that.

option 1 seems to fit in to my budget...and maybe a while later il get my self a wild piper...

what say guys?

11th July 2009, 12:50	#1
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 856 Thanked: 1,297 Times View My Garage	Zen prep for hi-performance street driving hi guys, Am looking to mod my mpfi zen for track racing,the zen was being used by my mum and we recently got ourselves a santro,so the zen is back to me and frankly i dont want to dispose it...currently i am planning to do stage by stage mods as that would help be judge the performance gain as well as be kind to my pocket. My plan is. 1)Race dynamics standalone. 2)Complete exhaust 3)Air filter 4)Plugs. 5)Maybe a port/polish job I do have in mind a piper 285 cam,but iam unclear about what mods will the head require,i was told by a respectable tuner that just installing the cam wont give you the 100 percent gain.. He has recommended to bore the unit to 1300cc but as of now i would like to keep things simple,plus the cost of 1300cc boring,cam,pistons,oils etc etc i have been given a quote of 124000/-which is off my budget. So guys please chip in with your ideas..
	() Thanks

11th July 2009, 13:05	#3
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 856 Thanked: 1,297 Times View My Garage	Well for starters at the moment lets just keep it as a daily street drive......I want the car to be a fun drive ...i hope you get the point
	() Thanks

11th July 2009, 13:37	#5
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 856 Thanked: 1,297 Times View My Garage	Heres the quote... Engine rebuild 124000 (with full exhaust , Pistons, Cam & Oils) ECU 26500 Gearbox 25000 (short ratio) LSD 70000 Body strength lightning with fibre body panels 65000 Filter HKS 8500 HKS Spark plugs 6400 (4 plugs, each plug 1600rs) Suspension 25000 (KONE)
	() Thanks

11th July 2009, 14:26	#6
siddartha BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: bangalore Posts: 671 Thanked: 24 Times	124000/- for engine rebulid - for how many engines? Last edited by siddartha : 11th July 2009 at 14:27.
	() Thanks

11th July 2009, 20:59	#8
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 71,802 Thanked: 321,087 Times View My Garage	Don't miss out on better tyres & a performance suspension, especially if you intend to start practicing on the track. Only question : You are based in Mumbai. What track?
	() Thanks

11th July 2009, 21:52	#9
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 856 Thanked: 1,297 Times View My Garage	@Siddartha Yes when i got the pricing i was shocked too, @doomsday Thanks for replying and yes i too feel zen is pretty light and needs no further lightning. @GTo Yes upgrade of tyres and brakes will be surely on the list,well the car will be moving to Goa shortly and more so it will be a lot of fun driving it on the highways since i do a lot of highway runs Iam thinking of not touching the gearbox,just the engine but how do i go about it? Should i go for the 1300cc conversion that is boring the existing one and fitting larger pistons etc am not looking for an engine swap coz i dont want cop trouble anytime in future. So will the 1300cc conversion on the existing engine be good or stick to the current one and get a head job and apiper cam in to it?? Basically the figure mentioned after a standalone,exhaust,intake,cam was said to be a increase on 30% which i suppose is around 18bhp(as told by tuner) so if the stock zen is 60 then after this mods say its 78bhp,thats a pretty good gain but frankly iam quite unsure about the 18bhp figure... Guys pls suggest what way should i go
	() Thanks

12th July 2009, 02:16	#10
adi99 BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 274 Thanked: 2 Times View My Garage	The answer is in your post, "go for the 1300cc conversion that is boring the existing one and fitting larger pistons etc". I have done it and its fast and torquey. If you are not happy, then try head, port polish etc... Since you have a mpfi zen, a standalone from Race Dynamics would be too good.
	() Thanks

14th July 2009, 18:13	#13
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,041 Thanked: 111 Times View My Garage	I would reccomend that you reach out to more people before you even think of the mods. The list you have on the first post are good enough to get you going. If you want more do the same set of mods with a 1.3.
	() Thanks

14th July 2009, 20:04	#15
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 856 Thanked: 1,297 Times View My Garage	Hi guys, Let me first thank you al for all your replies,well i have decided to do a little more research and then set sial accordingly. At the moment my mind has narrowed down to get the car set up in banglore,one of the reasons being that i will be in bangy for a month or so,so i guess that will be a good time to get things done.Any suggestions for good and non fleecing type tuners in banglore?Am thinking of Raj Hingorani,have read good views about him,and would really appreciate if you guys could also suggest something or your views about his work. My options stock motor,polished/ported,change in compression,standalone,exhaust and a intake job... option two is plonking a esteem engine in to it,which is a good option but i have just 50k and i dont think the swap will come in that. option 1 seems to fit in to my budget...and maybe a while later il get my self a wild piper... what say guys?
	() Thanks