[L8ButV8]

As an avid Team BHP reader for many years, I am looking for guidance on an unusual mod: how feasible is it to add softer dampers/springs to a Skoda/Audi sedan?

My family has a very strong liking for the Toyota Innova. Everytime we get an Innova taxi it provides excellent comfort in the middle row. Our cars at home (V213 E class, Skoda Superb etc) do not come close on comfort, especially for the older folks. However, they do find Japanese sedans (our ex-Teana, old corolla) more comfortable. My read is that they do not like the lower seating position, harder suspensions and taught leather seats of the Germans.

We're looking to replace the Skoda Superb and are confused. While we want the comfort of an Innova (middle row bucket seats), it misses out on the silent, smooth driving dynamics of upper market vehicles. I am trying to understand two things:
(1) Are there any vehicles that provide Innova like comfort, that we should consider on a budget of upto 1Cr? I understand that comfort is very subjective, but would appreciate members' views.
(2) Is it feasible to modify the suspension of an Audi A6, Q5, Q7 or Skoda Superb to provide a softer ride?

I am open to buying new or used (if the car is discontinued), and spending on any modifications needed (e.g putting in Innova seats etc). We have a strong preference to not buy more than one vehicle, due to the maintenance headaches associated with adding more cars.

Thanks in advance.

[GTO]

- Unlike mainstream Marutis & Tatas, for German cars sold globally, you will see a lot of aftermarket suspension options available. Check & research on international websites too. Although, be warned that 90% of them will be to improve handling, not ride comfort. I spent a lakh on the AVO suspension to reduce my Thar's bumpiness and am happy with it.

- This is why buying a premium car with adaptive dampers makes a whole lot of sense in India (from the Kodiaq and up, many luxury cars offer adjustable suspensions). You can make them soft on bad roads, and firm when you're out on a sporty drive.

- The most simple fixes are in this post. Downsize to a lower variant's wheel size as long as there is enough clearance for the brakes.

Originally Posted by GTO

- Drop the tyre PSI to 28-29, but just for the city. For highway / high speed runs, push it back up.

- Move to comfort-oriented tyres.

- What wheel size are you running? If R16, consider a drop to R15. Ensure there is clearance for the brakes. I hope the previous owner hasn't upsized to R17 or something.

[vishal9999]

Originally Posted by GTO

-

- This is why buying a premium car with adaptive dampers makes a whole lot of sense in India (from the Kodiaq and up, many luxury cars offer adjustable suspensions). You can make them soft on bad roads, and firm when you're out on a sporty drive.

- The most simple fixes are in this post. Downsize to a lower variant's wheel size as long as there is enough clearance for the brakes.

Are there any aftermarket manufacturers producing adaptable dampers that can be fitted to any vehicle?

[androdev]

Your comparison of E Class and Innova reminds of a recent discussion on S Class vs Vellfire. If you go over a large dip in the road surface at good highway speed, the suspension on the German cars doesn't bottom out. There are many such characteristics that come to the fore when the speeds are on the higher side and the car is being driven enthusiastically. If these aspects are relevant to you, you would buy an S Class/7 Series, etc. For a sedate and risk averse driver (like a good chauffeur), Vellfire would make a much better choice. European cars also tend to be very safe in real world accident situations - which are far more severe and bizarre than NCAP tests which are conducted at much lower speeds than the speeds involved in real world accidents.

Unfortunately in India, there is a huge prestige thing associated with the European brands so even a chauffeur driven customer prefers a European car even though they are inferior to the Japanese cars when it comes to passenger comfort, especially the rear seats.

What I am trying to get at is that European and Asian manufacturers work with different objectives and that reflects in the overall user experience. You can't have it all (within a budget) - so it's not a case of ignorance but a conscious design and marketing decision.

The cheapest modification you can do to improve comfort is to downsize the alloy wheels, go for a nice comfort oriented high quality tires like Michelin Primacy and work with 2-2 PSI lower than recommended tire pressure. Buy a used car from a higher segment - it will offer better comfort.

Adaptive suspension, IMHO, only makes sense if the default suspension is tuned to be very sporty like in BMWs. Mercedes default suspension is typically comfort oriented so one doesn't really benefit from an adaptive suspension as far as comfort is concerned. Can be helpful if they want to switch to a sporty suspension mode.

The story of seat comfort is also similar. European models come with hard wearing seats and cushion which lasts for many years. Japanese seats while more comfortable, they wear out very quickly especially the passengers are on the heavier side. European brands also don't like to give good rear seats in their entry level models and reserve them for their higher end models only.

I would have suggested a pre-owned S Class but then people argue that Vellfire is better, so the debate never ends.

Looks like I've rambled a lot :-) If you don't want the high speed driving benefits of Europeans cars - you will be better served by Japanese cars. Europeans cars - like seat belts - a little uncomfortable but offer more protection.

[PrideRed]

You may look at a Lexus that fits your budget and from what I see, a crossover should keep you happy. The suspension of NX or ES is on softer side when compared to say a 5 series or a Q5.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by L8ButV8

We're looking to replace the Skoda Superb and are confused. While we want the comfort of an Innova (middle row bucket seats), it misses out on the silent, smooth driving dynamics of upper market vehicles.

Why not just get the new Innova Hycross?

It's very silent compared to the old one, hybrid petrol vs.diesel, more powerful and fuel efficient, monocoque instead of body-on-frame resulting in better driving dynamics and easy ingress/egress, has acoustic glass for noise reduction and those comfy seats!

I got one recently.

Give it a try.

[livezero]

I drive Octavia 1.4TSI which got Torsion Beam Suspension at the rear, so can very well relate to your search for Softer Suspension.

The car has done 1lac KMs and Michelin tires at the end of their life.

While the high-speed stability is great, the thuds and jolts are quite prominent. Especially when there is no one in the back seat.

We recently drove 2014 Audi A4 for 2days and came out quite happy with ride quality. At low speed on bumpy roads of Pune, it would just glide over. Whereas my Octavia would constantly remind me of the road surface underneath. At high speed Audi was bit bouncy which wasn’t the issue at all with Octavia.

So I was actively looking for softer suspension options but everyone pointed to B6. I don’t want to make the rider harder at low speed.

I recently drove the Octavia with 3 passengers in the backseat which is like 180kg extra weight at the back, and Octavia’s ride quality was as good as of Audi A4. Even at high speed the ride was quite flat.

So I am gonna try putting some 100kg weight in the boot and see if the ride quality stay as it was with passengers. You might want to give it a try and see if it makes a difference.

[abaliga]

I recently drove the Innova Hycross, its ride is definitely superior to our 2023 Octavia. If driving pleasure is not a priority but ride quality is, go for the Innova Hycross.

Though it cannot rival a German marque for prestige, Innova is a brand in itself that commands respect.

If you need to buy something that offers you a balance of driving pleasure and comfort and you do not want to spend upwards of 70-80 lakhs, do consider the Audi A6 or Q5, their cushy ride quality is highlighted as a pro in almost all reviews I have watched.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by L8ButV8

While we want the comfort of an Innova (middle row bucket seats), it misses out on the silent, smooth driving dynamics of upper market vehicles.

What you need is a Toyota Innova Hycross.

Are there any vehicles that provide Innova like comfort, that we should consider on a budget of upto 1Cr? I understand that comfort is very subjective, but would appreciate members' views.
and spending on any modifications needed (e.g putting in Innova seats etc). We have a strong preference to not buy more than one vehicle, due to the maintenance headaches associated with adding more cars.

Seriously, your requirements scream Hycross. I couldn't bring myself to buy the old Innova because the driving dynamics sucked and I spent an entire year trying out almost every car under 70L trying to convince myself that this is what I wanted. Even leaving the money aside, the better driving dynamics of the Germans always came with other massive compromises that I wasn't very happy about in a daily driver. They make fun weekend toys but definitely not good cars for long, relaxing roadtrips considering our road conditions.

Take a test drive of the Hycross. It was released after a year of me hunting for a car like the answer to my prayers. They have improved the handling and driving feel quite a lot. Taking curves at high speeds without slowing down is a breeze. Don't get me wrong, it is not as good as a low slung sedan but it is probably the best you can get for a tall 7 seater people mover south of 1 crore and the difference between the old and new is night and day.

Do be prepared for the following disadvantages though:

1. If you are someone who likes cruising at 120 or above, the hycross can get rather noisy compared to the Germans. This is from both wind and tyre noise mainly. Other owners have reported improvements with noise dampening.

2. You might want to downgrade the 18 inchers to 16 inch rims and get a more silent pair of rubbers.

3. There is no lumbar adjustment for the driver's seat.

[dsr001]

To OP and others, gentle reminder,many highways have a legal limit of 100-120, please check your requirements against that.

[Carguy9902]

Try the Volvos or the Velfire. The swedes are known to go (roughly) with a 60:40 approach to comfort and dynamics. Good luck.

[L8ButV8]

Thank you all for the advice.

Originally Posted by inwester

Why not just get the new Innova Hycross

Originally Posted by abaliga

If driving pleasure is not a priority but ride quality is, go for the Innova Hycross.

Originally Posted by Cresterk

What you need is a Toyota Innova Hycross.

We took a look at the Innova Hycross, and loved it. We had initially overlooked it owing to the long wait times & high sticker price. However, the test drive was exceptional-- the smooth running hybrid was a significant improvement over the Crysta, and the overall package felt fresh/more exciting. We will be making a booking shortly. This is exactly what we needed, and I think the only mod we'll need to do is to beef up the sound insulation.

Originally Posted by GTO

- This is why buying a premium car with adaptive dampers makes a whole lot of sense in India (from the Kodiaq and up, many luxury cars offer adjustable suspensions). You can make them soft on bad roads, and firm when you're out on a sporty drive.

- The most simple fixes are in this post. Downsize to a lower variant's wheel size as long as there is enough clearance for the brakes.

Originally Posted by livezero

I am gonna try putting some 100kg weight in the boot and see if the ride quality stay as it was with passengers. You might want to give it a try and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks GTO and Livezero. While we wait for the car, we'll try to use these suggestions to improve the ride quality of the Superb. If the results are good, the plan is to cancel the Hycross & get the new Superb that is rumored to be coming soon. Hopefully it will have adaptive dampers. Specifically, we're going to:
- Change the suspension to a softer set up
- Drop the tire pressure
- Add weights to the trunk to make it planted
- Reduce wheel/tire size, if we can find a cost effective way to do it.

Originally Posted by Carguy9902

Try the Volvos or the Velfire. The swedes are known to go (roughly) with a 60:40 approach to comfort and dynamics. Good luck.

We did checkout the Volvos, however a couple of close friends had very bad experiences with the Service center in our city. As a result, we decided to drop it. Sadly, the Velfire is far, far out of budget at this point

The Audis (A6 and Q5) were dropped as we didn't find enough value beyond the badge. Backseat space is constrained, and (IMO) the ride/seats etc are still a tad too stiff. We have near zero highway/higher speed usage needs, which is where these cars really shine. Instead, we'll be doing short city rides on broken roads and high traffic 99% of the time. Maybe I'm missing something, but they didn't feel like much of an upgrade over the Superb (barring the badge, which I don't care too much for).

Originally Posted by androdev

If these aspects are relevant to you, you would buy an S Class/7 Series, etc. For a sedate and risk averse driver (like a good chauffeur), Vellfire would make a much better choice. European cars also tend to be very safe in real world accident situations - which are far more severe and bizarre than NCAP tests which are conducted at much lower speeds than the speeds involved in real world accidents.

What I am trying to get at is that European and Asian manufacturers work with different objectives and that reflects in the overall user experience. You can't have it all (within a budget) - so it's not a case of ignorance but a conscious design and marketing decision.

Androdev, thank you for the very thorough and clear summary. Your points reasonate a lot with me. The Velfire is such a great car, and way over my budget. For this reason, I'm afraid to spend more time with it, lest we end up getting it The European cars definitely do perform better at higher speeds, and the Japanese cars are probably a better fit for our usage which is predominantly in the city. The added benefits of fuss free maintenance are also very attractive.

While the Superb has been a fantastic car, the number of hours I've put into maintaining it (it's burned through 3 DSG gearboxes in 45k km) has made it a labor of love. It is for this reason that we ruled out a used S-class/7 series too-- I would have to put in considerable effort to find a clean, well maintained piece and give it the love it needs over time to run well. I've followed your ownership thread very closely, and love how you use the car as a daily driver while keeping it in top shape.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by L8ButV8

We took a look at the Innova Hycross, and loved it. We will be making a booking shortly.

Great practical decision.

Just to give you some more food for thought, the Maruti Invicto (basically the same car) rides a little better due to the smaller alloys (17" vs. 18" in Innova Hycross) and a higher profile tire, and it should be available sooner. So if you don't care for ADAS and the electric ottoman seats, its 2-3 lakhs cheaper on-road as well for its top Alpha+ variant.

Either way you can't go wrong.

[ProLearner]

You can also check out the Kia Carnival, since you have a Superb & are considering the Hycross, length might not be an issue. But Indian market has older gen model.

The X3 and the Kodiaq have adaptive suspension, and I just read a post about the BMW 6GT here, which has Air suspension. Probably the most affordable new car with Air suspension is the 6GT.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/bmw-63...d-rs-7590-lakh

[z_3en]

Originally Posted by L8ButV8

As an avid Team BHP reader for many years, I am looking for guidance on an unusual mod: how feasible is it to add softer dampers/springs to a Skoda/Audi sedan?

My family has a very strong liking for the Toyota Innova.

We're looking to replace the Skoda Superb and are confused. While we want the comfort of an Innova (middle row bucket seats), it misses out on the silent, smooth driving dynamics of upper market vehicles.

One word: Velfire
If you want a premium brand: Mercedes GLS (but pre-owned)
Unconventional option: Citroen C5 Aircross