[Ojas]

Friends, first of all, thank you everyone here for making this forum an excellent source of information and advice. I really appreciate the passion, attention to detail, and willingness to help.

I’m in the market for a new car and need your advice before I take the plunge.

Current ride

My current ride is a Ford Fiesta SXI 1.6 Duratec, bought in 2010 and clocked around 1.2L kms. Needless to say, it’s a driver’s delight and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed driving it for more than a decade now. The phrase “poor man’s BMW” is something that stuck in my mind all along.

Usage Profile

It’ll be for 2 adults and 2 kids. Medium sized cars are perfect as we are not very tall/big. City/highway split will be 70:30.

Budget

Mustered courage to go up to 60L, partly because I can save about 18% in terms of tax savings and car running/maintenance expenses through company lease.

Requirements

1. Should be more fun to drive and handle better than Fiesta
2. I enjoy my music, so should have a premium audio system with punchy bass
3. Good in-cabin NVH
4. Comfortable ride (need not be very plush, but has to be definitely comfortable)
5. Power should be a significant step up
6. 5-star safety
7. Paddle shifts
8. Wireless Android Auto
9. Good to have: Digital Cockpit, Sunroof, Ventilated Seats, Sun Blinds

Cars Dropped

1. Jeep Compass: Slow gear box was a deal breaker. Cabin insulation and music system were average.
2. Tiguan: Stiff ride, unexciting interiors, basic music system.
3. A4: Nice interiors and good ride/handling balance. Average music system. At this price, thought the 3 series with RWD will be a better option.
4. 520d: Met all my requirements and then some, but it’s above my budget. In-cabin NVH was acceptable and almost petrol like. Has been hard to find a suitable used car in Hyderabad. I’m also dropping the used car option now, since Orix needs the car to be at most 2 years old for lease.
5. Superb: Not a handler.
6. Kodiaq: Don’t need a big 7 seater.

Cars Not Considered

1. s60: given lower power/torque and FWD setup, despite it having a “spectacular” Harman Kardon system (from Team BHP review). Would be interested in knowing if it’s worth considering.
2. Mercs: given they are generally not known to be driver’s cars. But I never drove one to know first hand.

Cars Shortlisted

1. Octavia: Ideal size for us and fun-to-drive. Missing features like sunroof and ventilated seats are OK, somewhat. The car felt powerful, light, and agile. I’ll be test driving this again to gauge the handling since I did not have much opportunity when I test drove. Really liked the Canton audio system (better than the Harman Kardon one in 330 Li)
2. 330 Li: Liked the power and refinement more than the 520d as expected. It felt fine around the corners, but again, didn’t have much opportunity to drive fast around curves. The Harman Kardon system was good. Will be taking a second test drive soon.
3. 330i: No TD vehicles available. There was a vehicle to be delivered in showroom, but could not test the music system as PDI was pending. Will find one soon to see or test drive.

Questions

1. How do Octavia, 330 Li, and 330i compare relative to each other (and relative to Fiesta if you have driven one) in terms of handling and fun-to-drive aspect?
2. Reviews of 330 Li have a lot of variance on handling – comments range from “still a great fun to drive car” (Power Drift did tests on slalom course and hairpin bends) to “it’s only for the chauffeured”. If it handles only as good as Octavia, then I’d be less inclined to spend double the money (despite the 3 offering more luxury and power).
3. How’s the audio system on 330i? How close or behind is it to the Harman Kardon one in 330 Li? If it’s good and if 330 Li does have much reduced handling capabilities, then I may compromise on audio system (don't really want to) and go for the regular 330i.

[IshaanIan]

I feel you can only replace a small fun to drive car with another one or else you won't find as much fun in driving a larger sedan no matter how much better it seems on paper or what journalists say. Keeping that in mind, why not look into the Mini Cooper? If you want a larger car, the countryman does fairly well in terms of being practical and engaging to drive. 3 series would be the obvious choice if one is looking for a larger sedan.

[lamborghini]

As a fellow ex-fiesta owner, I completely understand where you're coming from. Very few cars are able to live up to the joy of a driver's car the Fiesta was.

You've chosen 2 brilliant options : the 330i v/s the Octavia. Nimble, quick, comfortable, and fairly practical options.
Interestingly, after our Fiesta, I switched to daily driving our Skoda Laura, and now am dailying a pre-owned F30 328i.

Regarding differences between the two : it all boils down to your driving style.
The Octavia can do 80% of what the BMW can do - the BMW will feel better at higher speeds, will be quicker, and a better handler + all the fun of RWD cars, while having a nicer ambience & feel, better presence, etc. Plus, BMW has some great warranty and service packages as compared to Skoda.

If you see yourself as a driver who enjoys pushing the car to the limit, would value the nicer interiors and the feel good factor : the BMW is your cup of tea. It handles high speed undulations better, getting the tail out is always fun, and experiencing a RWD launch is so much nicer to experience than the FWD wheelspin.

The Octavia that way feels more like a good cruiser - if you don't see yourself flooring the pedal often, not picking the best line for a corner, and just want a good, fast, safe cruiser - the Octavia could be a good option without stretching your budget.

[Macfreak7]

There's a mouthwatering 2003 325i somewhere in the classifieds section, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat if I was in your situation.
6 speed manual,
inline 6 under the hood,
insanely fun to drive.

Only compromise would be ICE / audio quality. But i'm pretty sure the fun to drive factor would more than make up for it.

[akash_v12]

Originally Posted by Ojas

Friends, first of all, thank you everyone here for making this forum an excellent source of information and advice. I really appreciate the passion, attention to detail, and willingness to help.

I’m in the market for a new car and need your advice before I take the plunge.

Ojas, I will quote the same answer I did for another BHPian who was confused with the same options. Hope it helps!

A quick check on the Volvo website shows that their network isn't as sparse as it was a couple of years ago. A lot of dealers/service centres have come up throughout the country and it shouldn't be much of a bother anymore.

- Since the previous cars you've owned have served you well throughout your road trips, I don't think GC should be a big deciding factor. Sedans are the way to go forward for long road trips - nothing matches the driving dynamics and comfort of them. As Androdev mentioned, there is absolutely no justification to spend the additional money for an SUV for those rare situations (especially in your case where a City has taken everything that you've thrown at it).

- The S60 is a great car. Rather spacious and one that can spoil you with the goodies. However, like most other Volvos it's not the most exciting to drive. It's set-up slightly softer than the Bimmers but not as much as the Mercedes'. In terms of rear legroom, for anyone more than 5'7" the underthing support will be lacking and you might be sat in a knees-up position, which makes it slightly uncomfortable. The 3 Series also makes sense in your case, but do note that the legroom in the back isn't a lot in SWB Form. If you're looking at LWB, then you should be good on that front. The 330i is a hoot to drive though and is probably one of the most dynamically sorted cars in the segment.

Two more options I'd like to add in are the Audi A4 & the Skoda Superb. The former may not be the best on any front, but it's surely a combination of both. Much better to drive than the S60 (in my brother's opinion) and a tad bit comfier than it too. Also, IIRC there were mouthwatering discounts on the A4. The Superb is something you cannot ignore at this price point. It may be down on the feature list to the Germans but if you're not badge-conscious, it might as well be one of the best options to go for.

[Turbohead]

If the rear seat space and boot space on the 330i isn't an issue for the next 10-12 years, I'd close my eyes and get it.
Else you really need to take a detailed test drive of the 330Li and Octavia. Only you can say which one is better and which one will satisfy you.

Good luck shopping!

[Ojas]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I feel you can only replace a small fun to drive car with another one or else you won't find as much fun in driving a larger sedan no matter how much better it seems on paper or what journalists say. Keeping that in mind, why not look into the Mini Cooper? If you want a larger car, the countryman does fairly well in terms of being practical and engaging to drive. 3 series would be the obvious choice if one is looking for a larger sedan.

Quite an off-beat suggestion. Will take a look, but my hunch is that Minis are fashion or lifestyle products and won't be that practical for everyday use as primary cars.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

As a fellow ex-fiesta owner, I completely understand where you're coming from. Very few cars are able to live up to the joy of a driver's car the Fiesta was.

You've chosen 2 brilliant options : the 330i v/s the Octavia. Nimble, quick, comfortable, and fairly practical options.
Interestingly, after our Fiesta, I switched to daily driving our Skoda Laura, and now am dailying a pre-owned F30 328i.

Regarding differences between the two : it all boils down to your driving style.
The Octavia can do 80% of what the BMW can do - the BMW will feel better at higher speeds, will be quicker, and a better handler + all the fun of RWD cars, while having a nicer ambience & feel, better presence, etc. Plus, BMW has some great warranty and service packages as compared to Skoda.

If you see yourself as a driver who enjoys pushing the car to the limit, would value the nicer interiors and the feel good factor : the BMW is your cup of tea. It handles high speed undulations better, getting the tail out is always fun, and experiencing a RWD launch is so much nicer to experience than the FWD wheelspin.

The Octavia that way feels more like a good cruiser - if you don't see yourself flooring the pedal often, not picking the best line for a corner, and just want a good, fast, safe cruiser - the Octavia could be a good option without stretching your budget.

Thanks. Not to the limit, but I do some spirited driving often, and I do enjoy nicer interiors. I haven't really experienced RWD cars for real. Maybe it's my chance to do that.

Originally Posted by Macfreak7

There's a mouthwatering 2003 325i somewhere in the classifieds section, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat if I was in your situation.
6 speed manual,
inline 6 under the hood,
insanely fun to drive.

Only compromise would be ICE / audio quality. But i'm pretty sure the fun to drive factor would more than make up for it.

Cars that old will require a lot of maintenance and I don't think I have that kind of patience. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Originally Posted by akash_v12

Ojas, I will quote the same answer I did for another BHPian who was confused with the same options. Hope it helps!

I went through the official review of s60. Interesting, but I doubt it'll score over the 3 for my kind of requirements. However, I'm interested in test driving it. Will do it soon.

Originally Posted by Turbohead

If the rear seat space and boot space on the 330i isn't an issue for the next 10-12 years, I'd close my eyes and get it.
Else you really need to take a detailed test drive of the 330Li and Octavia. Only you can say which one is better and which one will satisfy you.

Good luck shopping!

I'll be fine with the rear seat space, but can't be sure about the boot space. I'm prepared to deal with it. I need to check the music system and possibly find ways to upgrade it if I'm going for it.

Yes, I'm planning to take long test drives of Octavia and 330 Li tomorrow.

[GTO]

Your post has "330i" written all over it. Go for the regular variant (not LWB) as you don't need that extra legroom at the back. It's cheaper & tighter to drive. BMW's turbo-petrol is glorious, as is the ZF gearbox and the brand's reliability varies between good to excellent.

Originally Posted by Ojas

How do Octavia, 330 Li, and 330i compare relative to each other (and relative to Fiesta if you have driven one) in terms of handling and fun-to-drive aspect?

330i > Octavia. Although I've had a lot of fun in both. Since 2 generations, BMW has started prioritising ride comfort (unlike the bone-jarring E90), but not as much as Skoda who's gone really soft with the new Octavia. All said and done, both cars are damn good. It is you who has to decide if the BMW 330i is worth the extra money to you.

Personally, I'd go for the 330i especially since - like me - you also keep your cars for 10+ years. Go high-revv away into glory, brother.

Originally Posted by Macfreak7

There's a mouthwatering 2003 325i somewhere in the classifieds section, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat if I was in your situation.

A 20-year old German sedan can be someone's project car, but not really a daily driver, especially not one with a 60-lakh budget. Many of us are too busy at work to bother with an old car on a weekly basis (sourcing parts, talking to mechanics, dealing with niggles & problems...).

[itwasntme]

Ojas, eyes closed go for a brand new 330i M Sport for ~64L: 2022 production has started, and a lease company can swing it for you in 2 weeks flat.

Plan B
A lightly used M340i (there was one for ~70L some time back): Makes the 330i look like a pussy cat

Plan B:
A pre-worshipped vRS (very unlikely given your 2 year age limit) for ~40L.

Coming from a Ford Fiesta, do not even think of an Octavia.

[sunikkat]

Well some similarities here - even I had a 2010 Fiesta (but 1.6s) and it was a tough car to upgrade. Finally in 2016 I went for Octavia TDI manual. Octavia was not agile like Fiesta and did not handle like Ford (plus that great quick steering). But with the power on offer and better built + high speed stability I did not miss Fiesta at all. Still with B6 dampers, wider tyres Octavia doesn’t handle like 1.6s. My next upgrade will definitely be a 330i (but not for few years as totally in love with my Octavia).
In your case with a budget of 60 lakhs, I would say 330i. I am sure you wouldn’t miss Fiesta. You might want to check the practicality of 330i with smaller boot. This is where new Octavia scores - fast, fun and practical.
But if I were you, definitely 330i

[46TheDoctor]

I always suggest people to go for 6 cylinder vehicles whenever they are spending more than Rs. 50 Lakhs and want a driver's car. But, with current car prices we don't have many such options below 75 Lakhs now.

So, in current market conditions my suggestions will be to go for either pre-owned 6 cylinder engine cars like 530d, X4 30D, GLC43AMG or a new M340i

If those options aren't workable for whatever reasons, IMO its better to buy something at lower prices and at least save some money.

[Ojas]

Did back-to-back test drives of 330 Li M Sport and Octavia L&K.

Handling

Not sure if this means pushing to the limit, but I took quite a few fast curves (120 degree at 80 kmph, for example). I think I experienced RWD for the first time. 330 Li gripped superbly and front wheels didn't lose traction even momentarily. I did feel a little bit of body roll though, but it didn't make anyone in the car uncomfortable.

Octavia did well too, but I noticed front wheels losing traction for a split second (I wouldn't have noticed if I wasn't paying keen attention) and there was one curve where passengers felt a tad bit uncomfortable.

Based on my real world experience, I think Fiesta has a slight edge over Octavia in handling department.

Other things

Personally, Octavia didn't feel like a step up from my Fiesta from build and interiors point of view. The materials, colors, and the finish didn't give it a plush and nice feel (use of suede with super light beige upholstery, grey roof, etc.) While the minimalism frees up space, it did reduce the cabin appeal.

What next?

I'll be test driving s60, but it's most likely going to be non consequential to my decision making. It's mostly going to be the 3.

I really want to go for the regular 330i instead of Li for below reasons.

1. I don't need the extra space at the back
2. I assume the regular 330i will still ride more comfortably than my Fiesta (while I try to get hold of a test vehicle, please let me know if I'm wrong on this one)
3. I'm reading that the Harman Kardon sound system in Li is only a small step above the BMW HiFi sound system (https://www.bimmer-tech.net/blog/ite...-audio-for-bmw)

The only outstanding concern is a good sound system that I really really want! Do you think it's something that I can easily upgrade, or do you see any hassles/warranty issues? BimmerTech guys in the US seem to say it's easy upgrading the amp and speakers, but want to understand in India context. Any leads on if and how I can do this?

[Ojas]

Originally Posted by GTO

BMW's turbo-petrol is glorious, as is the ZF gearbox and the brand's reliability varies between good to excellent.

Personally, I'd go for the 330i especially since - like me - you also keep your cars for 10+ years. Go high-revv away into glory, brother.

Indeed, was all smiles throttling it, such a pleasure. On a side note, I plan to take a 530d for a spin some time, though I have no plans to own/maintain such a monster.

I received a lot of flak from friends for not upgrading for so long . I had also bought my Fiesta used - it was almost new at 1 year and 7K on the odo at 25% discount. Tremendous value. That's the reason I started out looking for a used 520d, but I didn't get lucky this time.

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Ojas, eyes closed go for a brand new 330i M Sport for ~64L: 2022 production has started, and a lease company can swing it for you in 2 weeks flat.

Plan B
A lightly used M340i (there was one for ~70L some time back): Makes the 330i look like a pussy cat

Plan B:
A pre-worshipped vRS (very unlikely given your 2 year age limit) for ~40L.

Coming from a Ford Fiesta, do not even think of an Octavia.

I'm looking at the Sport variant given most of what M Sport brings is cosmetic. Are the 18 inchers and mixed tyres a big deal?

No M for me. I do need the ride to be comfortable and also don't want to spend more.

Originally Posted by sunikkat

You might want to check the practicality of 330i with smaller boot. This is where new Octavia scores - fast, fun and practical.
But if I were you, definitely 330i

Initially ruled out the 3 keeping the boot in mind, but made peace with it over time. Need to see if I can keep the spare wheel out except when absolutely required.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by Ojas

I'm looking at the Sport variant given most of what M Sport brings is cosmetic. Are the 18 inchers and mixed tyres a big deal?

My 2 paise (in random order):

2022 Sport is an especially good deal now that the infotainment and full digital displays are identical to the M Sport (i.e. with iDrive 7 + Android Auto & Apple CarPlay.)

M Sport bodykit and bumpers make it look more aggressive from front. However, I prefer my Sport's more sober looks and especially from the back.

The 17" alloys with 225/50 RFTs are decent enough I feel. You won't have the rail like handling of the 18" staggered tyres, but it is more than enough for most drivers on Indian roads. The Bridgestone Turanza RFTs are rubbish though. Ordinarily I would have recommended a change to Michelin 3ZP on day one, but you will lose the first year (complimentary) BMW Secure tyre insurance if you do so. Further the exchange value of the Turanzas are pathetic. Possibly better to drive it for 2 years and then change to Michelins.

Sensatec leatherette interiors are not luxurious though, especially the Black.

The Sport seats on the M Sport (confusing, I know!) are far superior as is the leather quality and general fit and finish.

The ambient lighting is very cool in the M Sport and sadly missing in the Sport.

Net net, make time and get a proper extended look at a Sport variant before deciding. Further, unsure of Sport production runs; do check up on that upfront to save heartburn later.

[EV NXT]

Don’t even think of the 330Li.

Buy the 330i eyes closed. Don’t bother about the music system. You will warm upto the car and music system given the thrills on offer.

You might notice I haven’t even referred to the Octavia. It’s a car that’s living on past glory, but currently dead as a dodo as far as enthusiasts are concerned.