[Maverick_4662]

My pick would be the 5 series petrol. One of the most beautiful sedans to my eyes with great features, punchy engines and pretty good reliability. BMW after sales will be much much better than Lexus with its negligible dealership presence. Second choice of mine would be the M340i.

[shree_shell]

Lexus ES is booooooring. But it is very reliable and won't give you headaches in the long term. Yes, it may be mechanically identical to Camry but then part sharing is the new norm and Audi is a VW if you look under its skin! I would recommend experiencing all your options back to back.

BMW and Audi are great options, but make sure you have an extended warranty on both the cars and don't forget to consider the resale value when you decide to move on to the next toy.

I understand that modern German cars especially BMW have come a long way in the last 20 years, but they are still waay behind the Japs when it comes to avoiding niggling issues like water-pump or oil filter gasket. And they will each cost a limb for parts and labor in India if I am not wrong.

[zulfi hansi]

Most of your family needs can be met with the cars that you have shortlisted, that said, if the better half preference pressures can be managed, like get your wife an electric car, it works, I did that 10 years ago, after that she doesn't care what car I drive, well mostly.

If you are going to keep the car for 7-10 years, plus its you who will drive it everyday, the only thing that should matter to you is grins per day while driving it. IMO get the 5 series, (530d if possible) with any other car (in that budget) the regret will start setting in after a year. Don't have potentially regrettable 6-9 years after spending 75+ lakhs.

Always remember, it were the cheapest cars that we drove with most passion and the longest in our younger years. With affordability and age going up, time constrains limiting us, generally most of us tend to have shorter ownerships of much more expensive and fun to drive cars in later years of life. Point being, what you can enjoy now is not going to come back after 10 years, even if you spend double the money. As the expression goes 'Grind away your favorite food while you have your teeth', and like BMW says - JOY IS NOW.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Vaahan

Hi BHPians,

I have been considering purchasing a car in the 55-60 lakh range with a stretch to about 70 lakh for about a month.

I currently own the Lexus ES Luxury with the Mark Levinson system. I am from Mumbai but currently in Gujarat and let me share my experience and answer your query if I can.

1. So for me it started with the BMW 5 series. First I gave a token of 50k it but due to some family and financial reasons I had to back out. Now in my case they had not ordered the car or even given me a receipt that this is against this car and this VIN etc. So when I went to them for the cancellation I had to fight for 6-7 months after which using influence and all that and then I was refunded my 50k. That for me there was a sour experience against the BMW dealer. Coming to the car I love the 5 series but the rear legroom is abysmal and the fact that it hit on my building entrance while reversing was a bit irritating. Otherwise for driving pleasure if I had to then I would recommend the 530d or the 530i msport but it does have GC issues. There are some nice things like the remote parking through the display key and all that and while its gimmicky for some but for me having a tight spot where I cant get out of the car it would have been a great feature to have and use daily. The dealer ruined the BMW feeling for me and that will always be in the back of my mind.

2. I did not consider Audi A6 due to the Audi experience and the fact that the local dealer was not very confidence inspiring.

3. I went to Lexus, rather I had them come to my house, we checked the entry and exit points and it did not scrape anywhere, heck, even the import TD car that they have did not scrape which is lower than the India CKD version. I drove it a few times and I genuinely like the plush ness that the ES offers. The tan leather interior and the blue colour look good and thats what I ended up choosing. After I bought it the prices have gone up so you may want to consider that in your decision. Also the delivery process was a bit lukewarm as they sent it on a flatbed on my insistence to GJ and the driver just explained a few things and handed over the car and the keys (during peak COVID times). Even the after sales I got it done in GJ where they did give me some VIP treatment at the local Toyota service station but it was not a premium experience. Recently I have come to know that they are opening up a Lexus showroom here so I am hoping for improvement in the ownership aftersales pampering experience, lets see. The fact that Toyota recently increased hybrid battery warranty to 8 years for free is also a very welcome and good gesture. Coming to the driving experience I would tell you its no BMW but its not a slouch and the rasp it throws out on a slight dab on the throttle is quite sporty something in my opinion. I love the car, very happy with it and after getting used to the touchpad I dont care two hoots about the lack of touch screen. If you want the touchscreen just hold on for 1 month theyre introducing the new facelifted ES with touchscreen in India very soon. Also the fact that the MID constantly shows me 19-20 KMPL in such heavy petrol price times is very very soothing .

I would recommend wait 1 month let the facelift come out or grab the current at a discount due to CKD availability.

If you want to save money I would recommend buying the Skoda Superb L&K, I am currently negotiating one and trust me its a very good product, just that the Skoda aftersales experience remains to be seen but otherwise its almost everything in that car.

Let me know if you have any queries.

[mohitchalla]

Normally I am an advocate for Japanese cars. However, here I would recommend going with the German options in the same price range.

If your heart is set on the Japanese maker, the almost identical Camry is available for significantly less money, it does not made much sense to go for the Lexus.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Vaahan

So with a smile on my face, want to share that after a lot of consideration have decided to stay with the Lexus es300h, luxury variant.
.

Congratulations on acquiring a beautiful and unique ride and wish you many thousands of happy miles in it.

Originally Posted by M00M

I would recommend wait 1 month let the facelift come out or grab the current at a discount due to CKD availability.

Good to hear the Lexus doesn’t scrape where some others do. That’s quite reassuring.

It would seem he has already decided to stick with the Lexus. Btw - absolutely no discounts on the Lexus ES despite the new facelift coming in. Since prices would anyway be higher than the current version.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Good to hear the Lexus doesn’t scrape where some others do. That’s quite reassuring.

Not everywhere, only really erratic speedbreakers and erratic potholes which are deep craters. In 10 months I have touched 1 high high speed breaker.

[Vaahan]

Hi all,

Coming back to this thread after a gap of a few days. I am expecting the delivery of the car on 10th during Navratri. In the meanwhile, please find replies to comments.

Originally Posted by pradheepsr

My picks
Sedan - BMW 330Li M sport
SUV - GLC 200

Thank you for taking the effort and giving your views. BTW nothing against the GLC interiors, just my personal view that it did not appeal to me as much!

Originally Posted by GTO

If you would have told her who owns Audi (the emissions cheat VW), the A6 would be out the window without even a TD .

Thank you! Will take that suggestion fully.

Originally Posted by M00M

I currently own the Lexus ES Luxury with the Mark Levinson system. I am from Mumbai but currently in Gujarat and let me share my experience and answer your query if I can.

Firstly congratulations on your wonderful purchase!! Also, thank you for sharing this. Really makes me feel good about the decision.

I did try the Skoda Superb and had nothing to complain about it. Just did not fancy a Skoda so gave up the choice!!

Originally Posted by Axe77

Congratulations on acquiring a beautiful and unique ride and wish you many thousands of happy miles in it.

Thank you so much! Awaiting delivery.

Originally Posted by DicKy

Test driven all the choices. Booked the Lexus even with the high price tag. Concerned about reliability/maintenance and plans to keep the vehicle for 7-9 years. Would say go for the Lexus.

Hearty congratulations and thank you for sharing!

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Hi,

we were in a near identical boat, living in Mumbai.

Thank you so much for sharing. Glad to hear all your feedback. I know it is six months since you bought this but congratulations still!!!

Originally Posted by RJK

First of all, congratulations on being able to afford vehicles in the segment you’re considering.

Thank you sir!! You have not confused me at all infact, you couldn't have been clearer!!! Thank you again for sharing. Camry for me was not in the reckoning - call it irrational but I was always clear that it would not be a Camry.

I also get the fact that in terms of driving dynamics it will be a 5 series as so many of you nicely suggested. Just that with 95% of the time in the city, not sure if I will even get to push the car, any car!!

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

I think for your particular use case, a sedan makes perfect sense. An SUV would be overkill IMO.

Thank you so much sir!!

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

I think you have made the right decision here.

Thank you so much! The 'ayes' made my decision easier.

Originally Posted by androdev

That's a well written "what to buy" query :-) Welcome to team-bhp!

Every car comes with a few compromises and I feel Lexus ES is probably the best option. Had it been "mostly-highway" usage, ES would pale in comparison to say BMW 5 series. However for predominantly urban usage, ES is a very strong contender. The only hard pill to swallow is that Camry Hybrid is almost the same car sans the badge at a much cheaper price with outstanding service and support. It is not that easy to convince oneself to pay that much more for Lexus brand but unfortunately Camry Hybrid looks a bit weird and lacks the prestige of the big boys.

Thank you so much and precisely followed your thought process!!

Originally Posted by QuentinTino

The segment of cars you’re hovering in, is already full of top notch cars which have their own characteristic talents (and downsides too) and all of them are great in their own way.

Thank you sir!! Lexus it is.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[Saurabh09]

Hi fellow BHPians

Excited to be sharing my first post on Team BHP after my membership recently got approved.

I have been looking to upgrade my drive to a car in the Rs. 60-80 Lakh range, and would love to get some advice from the experts on this forum. I have ‘almost’ made up my mind, but happy to re-consider based on inputs I receive here.

I live in Gurgaon, and my current drive is a 2012 Swift Dzire ZXI – which is in perfect shape. My office commute is typically by an office car / cab, so I typically end up driving on weekends. Hence the car has barely done 40K KMs over the past 10 years. However, the itch to upgrade is for the following reasons:

• Want to move-up to a more fun-to-drive, more comfortable & more feature-rich car.
• New car would be chauffeur driven on weekdays – for daily runs with wife, kid & parents (in their 70s).
• On weekends however, it would be self-driven – with the occasional road-trip thrown in.
• I would expect the car to do 8-10K/year – with City:Highway ratio of 60:40
• On road trips / long distance, typically the car would ferry 3 of us (me, my wife, 5-year old), with parents joining in very rarely
• No strong preference on body type – as long as the car has good ride quality, doesn’t scrape over bad speed-bumps, and can wade through Gurgaon roads in monsoons

I’ve been eyeing an upgrade for a while now – so I have considered cars spanning the entire spectrum – Jeep Compass, Ford Endeavour, Skoda Kodiaq, BMW 330Li, BMW X3Merc C Class, Merc E Class, Merc GLC to name a few. However, I kept pushing out the purchase – which allows me to stretch the budget a bit, and again buy a car that lasts me 8-10 years.

Also, I have read (many times!) GTO’s thread on how you should always but a car that is a segment above what you think you can afford – and I do fully agree to it. Still (to this day) regret not buying a Honda City when I bought my previous car.

So here are the ‘real’ options – which I’ve truly considered & test-driven over the past few weeks:

• BMW 330Li M-Sport: The car is a hoot to drive, looks good, and has great leg room too. But the rear seat felt too bouncy, and the fact that we tested BMW & Merc counterparts back-to-back did not help at all. Plus the boot is not practical at all for outstation trips. Hence this was summarily rejected by my wife. (66L OTR Gurgaon)
• Merc E200 LWB: Stunning interiors & really plush ride. Plus – the E-Class has defined luxury sedans ever since I’ve been obsessing about cars. BUT, it seems to be too focused on rear-seat comfort, but is not great to drive. The only words that came to my mind while driving the car was ‘sluggish’. It’s nowhere as sprightly & eager to be pushed as the BMW 30i engine. (80L OTR Gurgaon)
• BMW 630i GT M-Sport: Similar driving pleasure as the 330Li, but with very good ride quality. This one came the closest to an E-Class in terms of comfort. The car is massive (just like the E-Class) – which allows for much bigger leg-room & also a massive 600L boot – which makes the car super practical. Additional attractions like frameless doors, unique body-style, rear-seat touch-screens etc. further tilt us in favor of this car. (80L OTR Gurgaon)
• BMW X3 xDrive30i M-Sport: Great driving dynamics, cabin feels much more airy, drive is not as plush however. But this is an SUV, and it’s speed-bump munching plus water-wading capabilities would be better than the rest for sure. Has AWD, which I might never need anyway. (78L OTR Gurgaon)

In addition, I did test-drive the Merc C Class and GLC also – which we decided to not go ahead with. We did not test-drive the 530i since neither the interior space nor the ride-quality were a match for the 630i.

Our mind is almost firmed up on the 630i GT, but quite keen to hear opinions of fellow members on the same. Also, as a first time luxury car owner – I have the following questions:

• BMW – RFTs: I’ve read up the entire RFT thread, and it’s a bit scary what a bad RFT experience can land you in. Question is: Are these isolated incidents or more the norm? Esp. given BMW is pretty much at the heels of Merc when it comes to Luxury car sales.
• 630i GT – Air Suspension: I’ve read isolated comments about its reliability. What to make of it? I feel that’s the only reason 630i GT offers such a plush ride quality – but could it be a big headache in the long-term?
• 630i GT vs X3: My mind if almost made, but from my requirements above – what would your suggestions be?
• BSI / BRI: Must say I don’t fully understand these too well. But ideally I feel we should look at these together with Insurance (since I heard that some points like hydro-lock get covered in insurance policy). So between Service / Warranty / Insurance – are we 100% covered? If not – what’s the catch? If yes – would appreciate some guidance on which BSI/BRI package to pick?

Thanks
Saurabh

Dear Mods: Kindly let me know if this merits a new thread, or if I should piggy-back on this one.

[Saurabh09]

Dear mods - there has been no response on this for 2 days. I'm super keen to get the views of the forum members.

Is it possible to create this as a separate thread? Since I do see that most queries like this are raised as separate threads.

Apologies for reaching out to you through this mode - since I know all my comments will be reviewed by a moderator, but I do not know how to reach a moderator to get guidance on this matter.

Thanks much!

[iliketurtles]

Hiya Saurabh, and welcome to the forum. The 60-80 lakh space is a good one to be in, the options are plenty, which can be dizzying and confusing to say the least unless someone knows more or less what they're looking for (don't worry, you're mostly clear on this).

In your shoes, I too would consider the X3 30i and 630i most strongly, and would pick the 630i over the X3 because it is very luxurious on the inside (IMO), and spacious too. The way I see it, you want a jack of all trades (a spacious car that can ferry the family during the week, be fun on weekends, do the occasional road trip, gobble up all the luggage, offer a comfortable ride, and be fun to drive). IMO, the 6 GT does all of that, and being a BMW it will be reasonable to own and maintain (relative to its segment, of course).

The only scenario that would see me pick an X3 over the 630i is if you absolutely want that extra ground clearance, but I honestly don't foresee that being that big an issue with the 630i, which will offer you the best of all words (sedan, GT car, and SUV-ish).

Let me try and answer your questions as best I can.

Originally Posted by Saurabh09

BMW – RFTs: I’ve read up the entire RFT thread, and it’s a bit scary what a bad RFT experience can land you in. Question is: Are these isolated incidents or more the norm? Esp. given BMW is pretty much at the heels of Merc when it comes to Luxury car sales.

The experiences you read of with RFTs are not the norm, but it is not entirely out of the ordinary. But when an RFT gives up, it does so completely, leading to it needing to be replaced at the earliest, no matter where you are. That's problematic.

If you read Dr. AD's thread, he was very lucky that he had a space saver to fall back on when his RFT failed. Hence, even when he struggled to find a replacement RFT (as he was in a smaller town), he was able to make it back home, albeit at a slower speed. He runs 17 inch tyres, the 6 GT is even larger. There will be very little chance of you finding a replacement tyre if it fails in a remote area.

This is an endless debate, with no definitive conclusion as it is so subjective. Long story short, in my opinion:

• Tubeless tyres are more comfortable than RFTs, although that gap has narrowed significantly in recent years per user experiences
• Many switch to Tubeless straight away, since its cheaper to replace. Conversely, many also choose to continue with RFTs for the peace of mind they offer

My personal suggestion, and what I would do if I were you, would be to switch to tubeless tyres, since they're cheaper than RFTs and offer a tad more comfort.

I would also buy a space saver to use on trips. That way, you won't be stranded if and when you need to change to a spare. The thing with RFTs is that they can be hard to procure, especially in larger, rarer sizes (like a 6 GT). Tubeless + space saver is the best option in that scenario. It saved me once too, when I had a bad pothole cut the tyre on my 328i (Crossing the thin redline into madness. Meet Red, my old new BMW 328i). I drove back home very slowly, but safely. I think the space saver is a godsend, frankly.

Originally Posted by Saurabh09

[*]630i GT – Air Suspension: I’ve read isolated comments about its reliability. What to make of it? I feel that’s the only reason 630i GT offers such a plush ride quality – but could it be a big headache in the long-term?

In the long term, it will need to be replaced, of course. And it will be pricey. But given your annual mileage, it will be a long time before you need to replace it. And given the fact you're in a main metro, sourcing it from the aftermarket (high quality, OEM or OEM+ parts) will not be a problem. It will not be cheap, but it will not be a problem, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by Saurabh09

[*]BSI / BRI: Must say I don’t fully understand these too well. But ideally I feel we should look at these together with Insurance (since I heard that some points like hydro-lock get covered in insurance policy). So between Service / Warranty / Insurance – are we 100% covered? If not – what’s the catch? If yes – would appreciate some guidance on which BSI/BRI package to pick?

BSI is a service package, while BRI is a warranty of sorts. Hence, buy the max warranty that you can (this should be a must), and take BSI as per your choice, or not. Keep in mind that if you buy BSI a month or two after you pick up the car, the price increases, and keeps on doing so over time.

Given your running, of 10k in a year, pick a 3 year, 30-40000 KM BSI pack, and buy an extra one later if you need it. Frankly, the cost of it vs a service works out to be very similar, maybe even cheaper if you go à la carte. So you can even choose not to go with BSI, and simply pay as you go to reduce your initial outlay.

Additionally, stick to zero depreciation coverage plans for the lifetime of your ownership. If and when you need it, you will be incredibly glad you have it to cover your back. Between these three (your choice of BSI coverage or not, max BRI, and zero depreciation insurance), you will be covered to a great deal. If you want as close to 100% coverage as you can get (because there are such few guarantees in life), take the max amount of BSI suited to your running. Given this is your first BMW, doing so will provide total peace of mind, if that's what your after.

Good luck with your choice, and happy shopping. Enjoy the experience!

[Saurabh09]

Many thanks for your detailed response, iliketurtles.

Yes I do indeed want a jack of all trades - esp. since this car is likely to be my main (only) set of wheels. Hence it will need to don many hats - as you so articulately put.

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

My personal suggestion, and what I would do if I were you, would be to switch to tubeless tyres, since they're cheaper than RFTs and offer a tad more comfort.

Thanks - this is helpful. Possibly a noob question - but when you replace RFTs straight out of the showroom - how do you monetize them? I assume BMW would want nothing to do with them. So, would there be a large enough after-market for RFTs, esp. in this size?

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

I would also buy a space saver to use on trips. That way, you won't be stranded if and when you need to change to a spare.

630i GT does indeed come with a space saver. So this issue is solved.

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

The thing with RFTs is that they can be hard to procure, especially in larger, rarer sizes (like a 6 GT).

I'm hoping this would be less of an issue in Gurgaon. What would you say?

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

In the long term, it will need to be replaced, of course. And it will be pricey. But given your annual mileage, it will be a long time before you need to replace it. And given the fact you're in a main metro, sourcing it from the aftermarket (high quality, OEM or OEM+ parts) will not be a problem. It will not be cheap, but it will not be a problem, that's for sure.

Got it. Thanks. So what I'm hearing is that as long as I'm ok to set aside a few Lakhs in Yr-5/6 for this, I should be ok. Though how many are we talking? 1-2 Lakhs?

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

BSI is a service package, while BRI is a warranty of sorts. Hence, buy the max warranty that you can (this should be a must), and take BSI as per your choice, or not. Keep in mind that if you buy BSI a month or two after you pick up the car, the price increases, and keeps on doing so over time.

Understand your points on BSI / BRI / Insurance - though I will do a bit more research on each package, and also compare pros/cons. Will come back if there are any other questions on these.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by Saurabh09

Possibly a noob question - but when you replace RFTs straight out of the showroom - how do you monetize them? I assume BMW would want nothing to do with them. So, would there be a large enough after-market for RFTs, esp. in this size?

Yes, you're correct. BMW will not do the swap for you, unless you know them well. Any high profile tyre dealer of your choice should be happy and willing to take the stock RFTs off you if you look to swap, reason being that they'll get it for cheaper than they could possibly source it for, and they can sell you some of their inventory at a similar/negligible cost to you.

Alternatively, use the stock RFTs for their lifetime, and then swap to tubeless later if you'd rather do that.

Originally Posted by Saurabh09

I'm hoping this would be less of an issue in Gurgaon. What would you say?

Yes, it won't be an issue in Gurgaon. Worst case scenario, there might be a lead time in procuring them. The bigger concern would be if your RFT gives up the ghost en route somewhere, and there's no shop within range to replace it. But, given the space saver comes with the 6 GT, you're sorted on this front.

Originally Posted by Saurabh09

So what I'm hearing is that as long as I'm ok to set aside a few Lakhs in Yr-5/6 for this, I should be ok. Though how many are we talking? 1-2 Lakhs?

My guesstimate is it'll veer closer to 3 lakhs. The stock shocks would cost about 1 lakh or a little less, the air suspension will make this 2-3x. There are many high-quality aftermarket replacements too, if it comes to that. Miessler makes replacement struts, and I'm fairly sure Bilstein has something to offer too.

[jkrishnakj]

Would you want to test drive the ones from the Audi stable as well? You might be pleasantly surprised. This is coming from me who’s had 12 months of fun over 24k km in the A6 Tech Variant.

[Saurabh09]

Thanks for your response.

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

Any high profile tyre dealer of your choice should be happy and willing to take the stock RFTs off you if you look to swap, reason being that they'll get it for cheaper than they could possibly source it for, and they can sell you some of their inventory at a similar/negligible cost to you.

Is there any impact on car warranty if I swap out OE tyres on day-1, and switch to new ones? I'll check with the SA as well and report back.

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

My guesstimate is it'll veer closer to 3 lakhs. The stock shocks would cost about 1 lakh or a little less, the air suspension will make this 2-3x. There are many high-quality aftermarket replacements too, if it comes to that. Miessler makes replacement struts, and I'm fairly sure Bilstein has something to offer too.

Thanks. Super helpful.

Originally Posted by jkrishnakj

Would you want to test drive the ones from the Audi stable as well?

Thanks for the suggestion. I love the new A6. It is quite a looker. In fact, while we're at it - I do love the XC60 as well - for it's looks, practicality, safety & features. But I have actively avoided taking any more test-drives to avoid confusing myself further - as in my mind I'm fairly clear that the toss-up is between Merc & BMW.

Heavily tilted towards BMW 6 GT.