[Aurum]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

The 6 cylinder diesel really does come into its own on the highways. In the city it will be smoother and more refined than the 4 cyl diesel but surely it can't beat the smoothness and refinement of the petrol. But on the highway it makes you feel like a king.

My choice was between the X3 and the 5 series back in 2015. I picked the X3 as I wanted a more family oriented car and it was the best compromise given my needs. Three years down the line I have no regrets. But one thing I was clear, I wanted the 6 cylinder. When you move up segments and shell out big bucks you need to feel special. Now what makes you feel special is entirely upto you. For me the 6 cylinder engine under the hood of my X3 plays a huge part in making the car feel special.

I can understand your dilemma with the Kodiaq in the picture. The price difference is not easy to ignore and the Kodiaq is a very capable car. X3 20d Vs. Kodiaq, I would definitely pick the Kodiaq. X3 30i Vs. Kodiaq is a very tight race in my mind. When it is this close, just go with your heart

Thats my problem - 30i vs Kodiaq. And my heart belongs to wife and family as well

Originally Posted by GTO

Some great advice already on this thread!

The fact that a Kodiaq is being spoken of in the same breath as an X3 says a lot about its competency. I've always insisted that the Kodiaq & Endeavour offer you what 60-lakh rupee SUVs do at a significantly lower price. And we've seen the same across segments as cars are becoming more & more competitive. Consider the Octavia vs a C-Class or a Superb vs the E-Class.

Bang on - but to be fair, its a good problem to have. The way I look at it, whichever choice I make, its a win.

Originally Posted by Axe77

I fully agree that there are a bunch of non big 3 German products out there that provide a comparable product at 60% price. Invariably though not always, the cheaper non trio will provide either better space or better luxury while the german will provide more power but less practicality.

The choice comes down to your disposable cash and whether you're happier plonking 65 lakhs or 45 lakhs on a car.

I currently own a 3 GT and trust me whenever it is time to let it go, my shortlist of cars would most likely include products like the Kodiaq (if I am ok taking a skoda call), or a Camry or something similar that's either more luxurious or more practical in terms of day to day ownership and doesn't break the bank (that's a relative concept of course) to buy or maintain for many years.

That's an interesting perspective. Is it because of the wider options available now, or your experience with the GT? I have lived with the same engine and gearbox as the Kodiaq for 7 years now, and have had no problems. That goes for and against the Kodiaq. Also, I believe Skoda service has improved now (VW was OK, not great).

Originally Posted by karan561

Skoda may launch the Kodiaq RS next year & that should solve a lot of your problems in this dilemma.

I wouldn't mind waiting honestly, if there was some certainty. My guess is that if it does launch, it might come at 50, by which time the 30i might be discounted to 60. I might go in for the Kodiaq, to be honest.

Originally Posted by srishiva

For me, I would consider only the money aspect. If paying more is not a big concern, I would go for X3. You dont really lose anything in terms of car.

I do lose something. The Kodiaq is more spacious with a third row and better equipped (for good or bad, Android Auto is of value to me, if nothing else).

Thanks again, these are really valuable perspectives. My immediate issue is that the 30i options are white with beige etc. in which case the whole thing is a non-starter.

[Epic]

Originally Posted by Aurum

The cars are separated by more than 20 lakhs, 100 horses, and unquestionable differences in driving experience and brand. What kind of a stupid choice is this? Bear with me.

So we went through a similar experience but were not replacing any car. But the choice was between Mercedes GLC 220d and the Skoda Kodiaq. We did find the Kodiaq a bit better overall but went in for the GLC simply for the brand as the rest of our cars are from the VAG stable. It is the biggest mistake we ever made!!

The GLC for 65+ lakhs did not have simple features like internal boot opener; no neither it does not have a boot opener button on the key fob nor does it have the virtual pedal to open the boot. We knew about the virtual pedal bit but did not bother to check the other stuff as we assumed these basics to be there. The GLC does not come with Apple CarPlay or Android Auto either. You have to pay around 30k more for maps!!

I personally drive the VW Polo 1.6 and the VW Jetta and I usually compare new cars with my Jetta. It has a stonker of an engine and superior suspension set up which gives you that precise handling. Our GLC is nowhere close to it in any of these departments. But yes, it would be unfair to compare a SUV to a sedan in terms of handling. The engine of the GLC however really disappoints. The 'S' mode in the GLC equals to the 'regular drive' mode in my Jetta and the 'S+' mode in the GLC equals to the 'S' mode in my Jetta. The normal or economical mode if the GLC is just lethargic and boring.

So I would conclude by saying that for a Jetta owner (like you and me) one expects a lot from a car that will replace it and that is a very difficult task. Compare the practicality of the X3 vs the Kodiaq. Is there anything basic that the X3 is missing as compared to the Kodiaq? Being a BMW, I am assuming the X3 would drive better. If the difference isn't much, there is no justification for a 20 lakh premium unless its the badge that fancies you.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Aurum

That's an interesting perspective. Is it because of the wider options available now, or your experience with the GT? I have lived with the same engine and gearbox as the Kodiaq for 7 years now, and have had no problems. That goes for and against the Kodiaq. Also, I believe Skoda service has improved now (VW was OK, not great).

To be clear, my experience with the GT is absolutely stellar - no complaints whatsoever on any front. The car has been flawless, no major issues, service is fantastic and the car drives like a dream. I've actually done a decent amount of touring in it as well loading family + bicycle inside and what not on smooth highways as well as some pretty rough roads.

But if I had to upgrade in due course from the GT - say to a big three SUV, I'm looking at a 65 lakh spend. What any BMW or similar german will offer at that price is a very good engine and a well built car.

BUT - I am 90% chauffeur driven. Keeping that in mind, if I don't mind living with a slightly lesser or comparable engine, what a Kodiaq will give me (as an example to an X3):

- Saves me 20 lakh up front;
- Saves me on recurring insurance cost;
- Any unusual service issues will cost a lot less;
- Is as plush if not plusher on most / all fronts;
- Possibly more comfortable second row than most comparable big Germans;
- More peace of mind rough using the SUV (its no Fortuner but I would certainly take more liberties with a Kodiaq than an X3).
- Full size spare wheel;
- Fantastic boot space;
- Small creature comforts that matter when you're in the back seat - for instance side support on headrests on rear seat;
- Top quality leather seats;
- Pano moon roof.

I mean basically, if you take badge value and engine performance out of the equation, you get a similar or better product on many fronts for 60-70% of the price. I'm not saying that works for all, but that personally it should be good enough for me.

Alternately, I may want an UBER UBER luxury hybrid sedan like a Camry. Ultimate luxury on all fronts with predictable and reliable upkeep costs. Again, don't care that the drive may not be in the league of a BMW / Merc etc.

On your Question on Skoda, I haven't owned one or have personal experience but my hesitation is from the various online horror stories online on their reliability as well as service experience. Nothing more than that.

I think the short point is there's a lot of merit in owning a 65 lakh BMW just as there's equal merit in buying a Kodiaq. It just depends on what is important to you.

I would have no qualms in buying a 35 - 40 lakh comfortable car and using money saved in an FD - or alternately to use the difference upgrade my 16 lakh worth Triumph to a 25 lakh BMW 1200 GS - simply because I actually ride that machine 100% of the time - I'm not a pillion.

[androdev]

Let's assume that you have done your homework on the requirements, feature comparison, affordability (important) and so on and reached a point where you feel either of these two cars will serve you well for the next 5-6 years. Now you are wondering if the extra money for the X3 is worth it.

Anything above Skoda/VW cars should be considered as sheer indulgence in our country even for a keen driver. I am a big fan of cars from VW group and never miss an opportunity to advise people to buy them.

Value per rupee diminishes drastically after a threshold and for us Indians (even for the well to do), VW is that threshold when you consider the kind of traffic, risks of high speed driving, neighbours-envy, dealer competency, and so on. This value argument comes up each time you have to service it or repair it, etc.

I am just kidding, my friend! You can never pass up a BMW after coming to striking distance and be able to live in peace. Buy the X3 30i and have some fun in your 40s. For your next car you can hang up your boy-racer shoes and buy a used Toyota Hybrid and never have to wonder how your 40s would have been if you had a BMW when your knees were in great nick.

It's not like Kodiaq will make your accountant send you flowers. Be hot or cold, never be lukewarm.

[IshaanIan]

I think it is as simple as this: How much do you value that extra 20 lakhs spent towards getting the X3? Is it that much more characterful to you? Or do all its advantages stacked up together, hold that much value to you? None of us can say. Obviously practically speaking the X3 may not be worth the money compared to the Kodiaq, BUT it could be to you if you feel that the car is all you want from the money you are spending on it.

[itwasntme]

Supremely interesting thread touching upon practical, philosophical and aspirational issues :-).

How about routine maintenance costs? How much do the comparable service packages cost and are these opex expected to be a factor in the capex?

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

How about routine maintenance costs? How much do the comparable service packages cost and are these opex expected to be a factor in the capex?

BMW has great “all you can eat” maintenance and warranty packages - and from the experience of friends who have had a BMW for a longer period of time, they adhere to them. Yes, the initial cost is high - about ₹ 500 k if I recall correctly for 5 years warranty + service.

Skoda now has a 4 year warranty - am unclear how much it costs, but suspect it will be much cheaper. Services on my Superb ranged from ₹25 k - ₹ 50 k per year. From a comparison of the experiences of my Superb and others’ BMWs (mostly 5 series), the 5 has proved much more reliable. On an average, I had to take the Superb to the service center 3-4 times a year beyond the routine service, while BMW owners managed with just 1-2 times in 2 years. Once you cross 5 years, I suspect a BMW will be much more expensive to maintain than a Skoda.

Aurum should also consider fuel efficiency. I suspect the 30i will give a mileage of just 6 kmpl in Bombay traffic, so about 1600-2000 litres of petrol for his 10000-12000 km per annul running- which would cost between ₹ 130k - 160k per year. The Kodiaq (or for that matter the X3 20d) will yield 8.5 kmpl, so about 1200 - 1400 l of diesel or about ₹ 84 k - 100k per year.

Resale value was abysmal for my petrol Superb - but suspect that was a petrol vs diesel issue. That may change over the next 5-7 years as cities crack down on diesel. Personally, I would have bought the X3 28i instead of the 20d had it been released while I was still evaluating cars rather than being released the day I closed my payment. But that would have been driven more because I think driving a diesel car with its high NOX and particulate emissions in a city is wrong.

[vb-saan]

In to your 40s, got the means to buy a X3 30i - just go for it! Kodiaq maybe the practical choice, but I would say listen to the heart now, and go for the practical option 5-6 years later, whenever the X3 is due for a change

[Aurum]

Originally Posted by Epic

So we went through a similar experience but were not replacing any car. But the choice was between Mercedes GLC 220d and the Skoda Kodiaq. We did find the Kodiaq a bit better overall but went in for the GLC simply for the brand as the rest of our cars are from the VAG stable. It is the biggest mistake we ever made!!

So I would conclude by saying that for a Jetta owner (like you and me) one expects a lot from a car that will replace it and that is a very difficult task. Compare the practicality of the X3 vs the Kodiaq. Is there anything basic that the X3 is missing as compared to the Kodiaq? Being a BMW, I am assuming the X3 would drive better. If the difference isn't much, there is no justification for a 20 lakh premium unless its the badge that fancies you.

I'm with you on this. The Jetta spoils you, which is why, having driven all the cars in segment , the only ones in consideration were the X3 30i and the XC60. The BMW drives quite a bit better than the Kodiaq but its not like the Kodiaq is bad. On the other hand, the space, economy and slightly more equipment stack things in favour of the Kodiaq. I have no fancy for the badge. In fact, I wish I could debadge it

Originally Posted by Axe77

To be clear, my experience with the GT is absolutely stellar -

BUT - I am 90% chauffeur driven. Keeping that in mind, if I don't mind living with a slightly lesser or comparable engine, what a Kodiaq will give me (as an example to an X3):

- Saves me 20 lakh up front;
- Saves me on recurring insurance cost;
- Any unusual service issues will cost a lot less;
- Is as plush if not plusher on most / all fronts;
- Possibly more comfortable second row than most comparable big Germans;
- More peace of mind rough using the SUV (its no Fortuner but I would certainly take more liberties with a Kodiaq than an X3).
- Full size spare wheel;
- Fantastic boot space;
- Small creature comforts that matter when you're in the back seat - for instance side support on headrests on rear seat;
- Top quality leather seats;
- Pano moon roof.

I mean basically, if you take badge value and engine performance out of the equation, you get a similar or better product on many fronts for 60-70% of the price. I'm not saying that works for all, but that personally it should be good enough for me.

I think the short point is there's a lot of merit in owning a 65 lakh BMW just as there's equal merit in buying a Kodiaq. It just depends on what is important to you.

I would have no qualms in buying a 35 - 40 lakh comfortable car and using money saved in an FD - or alternately to use the difference upgrade my 16 lakh worth Triumph to a 25 lakh BMW 1200 GS - simply because I actually ride that machine 100% of the time - I'm not a pillion.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. This is literally the discussion in the family, except instead of the bike, I would probably spend on good floor standing speakers or a 4K projector, and my wife has some home projects in mind. Can we afford to do both? Likely, but it feels much better if you trade-off one vs the other. Mind you, nobody really needs good floor standing speakers or 4K projectors either. They are as much of an extravagance as a 60+ lakhs SUV.

The Kodiaq and Endeavour are really powerful products precisely for these reasons, except the Endeavour is not exactly my type.

Originally Posted by androdev

Let's assume that you have done your homework on the requirements, feature comparison, affordability (important) and so on and reached a point where you feel either of these two cars will serve you well for the next 5-6 years. Now you are wondering if the extra money for the X3 is worth it.

Anything above Skoda/VW cars should be considered as sheer indulgence in our country even for a keen driver. I am a big fan of cars from VW group and never miss an opportunity to advise people to buy them.

Value per rupee diminishes drastically after a threshold and for us Indians (even for the well to do), VW is that threshold when you consider the kind of traffic, risks of high speed driving, neighbours-envy, dealer competency, and so on. This value argument comes up each time you have to service it or repair it, etc.

I am just kidding, my friend! You can never pass up a BMW after coming to striking distance and be able to live in peace. Buy the X3 30i and have some fun in your 40s. For your next car you can hang up your boy-racer shoes and buy a used Toyota Hybrid and never have to wonder how your 40s would have been if you had a BMW when your knees were in great nick.

It's not like Kodiaq will make your accountant send you flowers. Be hot or cold, never be lukewarm.

Man, you set this up so beautifully . My wife was completely sold on your argument until your twist at the end. In this case, I do have the option of keeping the car only for 4 years this time, and upgrading sooner (will still be in my 40s )

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I think it is as simple as this: How much do you value that extra 20 lakhs spent towards getting the X3? Is it that much more characterful to you? Or do all its advantages stacked up together, hold that much value to you? None of us can say. Obviously practically speaking the X3 may not be worth the money compared to the Kodiaq, BUT it could be to you if you feel that the car is all you want from the money you are spending on it.

Its 20 lakhs on this vs 20 lakhs on some other indulgence, so thats really the comparison.

Originally Posted by Hayek

BMW has great “all you can eat” maintenance and warranty packages - and from the experience of friends who have had a BMW for a longer period of time, they adhere to them. Yes, the initial cost is high - about ₹ 500 k if I recall correctly for 5 years warranty + service.

Skoda now has a 4 year warranty - am unclear how much it costs, but suspect it will be much cheaper. Services on my Superb ranged from ₹25 k - ₹ 50 k per year. From a comparison of the experiences of my Superb and others’ BMWs (mostly 5 series), the 5 has proved much more reliable. On an average, I had to take the Superb to the service center 3-4 times a year beyond the routine service, while BMW owners managed with just 1-2 times in 2 years. Once you cross 5 years, I suspect a BMW will be much more expensive to maintain than a Skoda.

Aurum should also consider fuel efficiency. I suspect the 30i will give a mileage of just 6 kmpl in Bombay traffic, so about 1600-2000 litres of petrol for his 10000-12000 km per annul running- which would cost between ₹ 130k - 160k per year. The Kodiaq (or for that matter the X3 20d) will yield 8.5 kmpl, so about 1200 - 1400 l of diesel or about ₹ 84 k - 100k per year.

Resale value was abysmal for my petrol Superb - but suspect that was a petrol vs diesel issue. That may change over the next 5-7 years as cities crack down on diesel. Personally, I would have bought the X3 28i instead of the 20d had it been released while I was still evaluating cars rather than being released the day I closed my payment. But that would have been driven more because I think driving a diesel car with its high NOX and particulate emissions in a city is wrong.

On this, I'm pretty clear and ready to bite the bullet. I am fully aware that the full lifecycle cost will be higher. Despite that, I am not considering the X20d Expedition or Xline to make it slightly easier on the pocket. It's either the 30i Luxury or nothing. In fact, even if the 30i was only available in Expedition or Xline, I wouldnt have considered it. This is not about penny pinching. When going for it, go the whole hog.

Over the last two days, it emerges that the colour that we want (Phytonic Blue) may not even be available as part of year end deals. We are clear that when spending so much, either we get what we want or we dont buy it. Lets see how that goes.

[the_skyliner]

Go with Kodiaq. With family in tow there will be limitations for you to enjoy the better engine and handling of X3. Also, Kodiaq can offer you more space to carry bicycles and other outdoor activities stuff which will be a task in X3. And with kids who would be looking for fun on holidays, these things will matter more.

If you really want a handler then you should look at 530d and not X3. Then at least you will be at peace knowing you got the real fun car which you can push around the corners.

Also, I feel the new 3series which is coming next year will make X3 feel a bit outdated. I know they are two different cars but the new 3's interiors are leaps ahead of the current X3.

[graaja]

When it comes to technical points like power, features etc., it is easier to take inputs from others and come to a decision. With technical points, it is black and white (even then some points like handling, priorities of features etc get into grey area), and one can come to a logical conclusion on which car to buy based on others' inputs.

But when the discussion moves to what 20 lakhs means to someone, it is impossible to come to a conclusion based on others' inputs. You just end up more confused than when you started. Though all of us can give you our perception (some will say go with Kodaq and others will say go with X3), it still would remain our perception only based on our life situations, and not yours. You are the only one who can experience your own situation and make the final decision. Not helping at all, am I?

Originally Posted by androdev

I am just kidding, my friend! You can never pass up a BMW after coming to striking distance and be able to live in peace. Buy the X3 30i and have some fun in your 40s. For your next car you can hang up your boy-racer shoes and buy a used Toyota Hybrid and never have to wonder how your 40s would have been if you had a BMW when your knees were in great nick.

Androdeve nailed it. I was in exactly the same dilemma when I was trying to decide between the Octavia VRS and the BMW 330i. Even there I had this 20 lakh price difference and I could have used the 20 lakhs for many other good things in life. I am 45 already, and when time comes to get the next car, I may not be interested in the power and handling a fast car has to offer and may just settle with a mid level comfortable car. This sealed the deal for me. I did not want to look back in life and feel I had missed out that opportunity to drive a fast BMW.

If you can afford that 20L, if that 20L is not going to break your bank or wreck you financially, and if you are already in your 40's, then this is the time to go where your heart tells you to!

Originally Posted by itwasntme

How about routine maintenance costs? How much do the comparable service packages cost and are these opex expected to be a factor in the capex?

Based on inputs from many BMW owers like Santhoshbhat, the_skyliner, Axe77 etc. when I was trying to decide if I have to take the BSI package, you can expect a service to cost around 20K to 25K per service. The service interval also is very dynamic and you may require a service every 10K kilometers compared to the 15K kilometers with VW or Skoda cars. So, comparing to the Octavia or the Jetta, I expect the yearly maintenance to be 30% to 50% more. But if you go for a long term warranty + service package and include this as part of the car purchase, you can have a peaceful ownership for 5 to 6 years. Just invest the discounts you get on the car back into these warranty and service package and enjoy troublefree ownership for a long time.

That is what I did. I got close to 7.5L discount on the OTR. I took 6 year extended warranty for 2.8L, and 3 year BSI+ for 1.5L. I would have gone for the 5 year BSI+ which costs 3L, but invested that amount in the suspensions. So, for the same OTR, I got 6 year extended warranty, 3 year maintenenace package and M Sport suspensions.

[JoshMachine]

Quite an interesting discussion and some great advice from the current owners.

With all the technicalities already debated, done and dusted, my two cents would be to decide - what is it that matters most to you when facing this dilemna - is it about the "family" decision that a Kodiaq solves (in terms of outright/huge monetary benefits, which can be redeployed for the kids' future/vacation plus other benefits like the 3rd row seats to be used for few more years etc.) OR is it the "personal"/ desirability decision that the BMW solves (the oomph, power and ofcourse the big brand value)?

This is like a decision tree in a boardroom, wherein you have to answer the most difficult question first and then go on to take the rest of the relatively easy decisions.

P.S. I don't own any of these beauties to share any real-life conundrums like the others so just putting on my "consulting" hat for the time being

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by Aurum

Over the last two days, it emerges that the colour that we want (Phytonic Blue) may not even be available as part of year end deals. We are clear that when spending so much, either we get what we want or we dont buy it. Lets see how that goes.

Treat these year end deal negotiations with BMW dealers like a five day test match and not like a T20 . They would obviously want to clear the slower moving configurations first and will test you to see how keen you are for a particular combination and the quantum of discount . The faster moving and more popular combinations will come out of their bag a little later. A lot also depends and on how much inventory they are stuck with. If they got their projections right , you may not be able to squeeze a lot out of them.

I remember when I bought the X3 30d, I showed them my hand by saying that I am interested only in the 30d and the 20d just won't do. They realised a 30d customer has no where else to go. They actually told me that there was only one car left in the entire BMW stocks in the country and no production is planned for the next 6 months! Take it or leave it! Another thing I remember from that time (Dec 2015) was that they got their demand forecast for the F30 3 series badly wrong and huge stocks had built up and with the LCI coming up shortly they badly wanted to get rid of stocks. Some unbelievable deals were there to be had on that car at that point in time. Something like 10 lakhs on a 48 lakh car!

[vigneshkumar31]

You have listened to your heart and lets say you have bought the Bimmer home.

I step in from nowhere and offer you a 'no questions asked reward' of 20 lakhs cash, if you would just agree to give the X3 up and swap for the practical and plush 7 seater from Skoda. Would you do it?

That would be your answer.

[itwasntme]

Aurum,

Unless I have missed your burning need for a expensive SUV (with which you will actually do SUV-worthy activities), switch to the 530D and take advantage of the rumoured 10L+ discounts. Ex-S for X3 is 58L & 530D (after discounts) is 56L.

You'll get the most leched-after sedan (among enthusiasts) in IN. Just limit the offroading appropriately and you're set