[charthom]

Hi Guderian,

I can see that your week end extension to Aug 15th was well spent.

Great account,friend. And great snaps. Your account with snaps is so mouth watering that I can't help fantasizing about a long drive in the future.

The day after-washing expedition was equally amusing.

Great writing skills and presenting skills too- with a Guy like you, I am sure the human resources of your firm are not only well developed but fully bloomed.

What an experience reading your posts!! I know I am repeating the words-but what to do,but stammer!!Speechless.Hats off and thanks.

[suman]

Originally Posted by Guderian

number plate was hardly visible. Could have been hauled up by the highway cops - but wasn't thankfully.

Is that a fact? The cops can haul you up for a dirty number plate which is very obviously caused by current weather conditions ?

[Swanand Inamdar]

Originally Posted by Guderian

Hi SI,
1. Many thanks for the comments. Admiral was looking truly 'Manly' with all the mud and muck on him - number plate was hardly visible. Could have been hauled up by the highway cops - but wasn't thankfully.

2. Whooshed past in the blink of an eye perhaps ? Would have been around Pune at about 6.45 am.

1. Can they do that? Knowing that the rains would play havoc on the vehicle, I do not see this as a valid move for being pulled over.

2. Oh, in that case, I should have been a few kms ahead of you. Left Pune around 5:30ish. Shame, would have been good to have a small chat, if we did cross paths.

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by charthom

Great account,friend. And great snaps. Your account with snaps is so mouth watering that I can't help fantasizing about a long drive in the future.
Great writing skills and presenting skills too- with a Guy like you, I am sure the human resources of your firm are not only well developed but fully bloomed.
What an experience reading your posts!! I know I am repeating the words-but what to do,but stammer!!Speechless.Hats off and thanks.

Hi Charthom,
Many, many thanks for the warm words and observations !
Glad that you are enjoying the posts.

Originally Posted by suman

Is that a fact? The cops can haul you up for a dirty number plate which is very obviously caused by current weather conditions ?

Hi Suman,
Well if the number plate isn't visible at all - the cops can haul you up as per the MV Act. While they may not penalise you etc keeping in mind sense of reasonableness and logic - they can have you clean up and then proceed.
Incidentally The MV Act makes it obligatory for the owner to keep the number plates visible and legible at all times ! And rightly so. Otherwise knowing our country and other rogues (not TBHPians !) on the road...

Have seen cases in the old days on the highway when trucks smuggling rice and cement across the state borders use to cover their number plates with c/lumps of cow dung !
Yeah unbelievable - but at one of point of time in India's history, enroute to total liberalisation, smuggling of the kind described used to take place !

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

1. Can they do that? Knowing that the rains would play havoc on the vehicle, I do not see this as a valid move for being pulled over.

2. Oh, in that case, I should have been a few kms ahead of you. Left Pune around 5:30ish. Shame, would have been good to have a small chat, if we did cross paths.

Hi SI,
1. As explained above.
2. Pity we missed the opportunity. There was a humungous traffic jam at 3 places before Khandala or else perhaps could have caught up with you. Nevertheless there is always a next time and Admiral shall be more than willing.

[F150]

General,
By any chance did you manage to capture the Speedometer readings and the corresponding RPM of admiral during the course of your trip ?

[mdsaab]

Just past a very popular restaurant on south main rd Koregaon Park.
This restaurant does not have good parking space.
Many a times you have to give it to the Valet for them to park quite far off from the place.
But here we have something out of the ordinary.
A Fortuner with it's rear wheels high atop a mound of some rubble.
Parked in close proximity to the restaurant.
Some of the perks of owning the T-Fort then.
Perks like these make you so wanna have one.
*Sigh*

[charthom]

Hi Guderian,

I have been being so mesmerised by your posts, that it seems that I had not been paying the due attention to the Admiral.

I have a few concerns about his honours. Hope you will clear his virtues.

I had considered Fortuner along with Yeti and BMW X1 during my initial hunt for the car that ended with the City. Not that I could afford The Fortuner and X1 easily- some heavy loans would have helped.The reason to drop them during the first screening only along with the Yeti was the concern about the ride.

1. Being an all-wheel drive how is the low speed ride-in city? You have written that he rode very well on the high way as well as the city. Is the ride good for a person with bad back for daily basis ride/drive? How stable he is at speeds above 120 kph? And at crawling speeds on pot hole ridden city roads?
And a curve-infected hill road with rough patches?

2. Apart from the bullying ability,how is he as a desirable vehicle? Is he ideal for those who do not off road much but would like to travel a lot comfortably?

3.Many claim that the Fortuner is a glorified Innova. Your unbiased views,please. I stress on the ride comfort part of it.

4. Are not bull bars etc reduce safety rather than enhance it?

I am sure you have covered these points in your review.But kindly take the trouble to illustrate these points again for me.

Thank you so much,Friend.

[amitwlele]

Originally Posted by charthom

3.Many claim that the Fortuner is a glorified Innova. Your unbiased views,please. I stress on the ride comfort part of it.

I would let General answer all your questions. But only for the above point maybe you can check out dkaile's initial ownership review of the Falcon. It veered towards the comparison without any intention and led to heated debates

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...uilt-last.html

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by F150

General,
By any chance did you manage to capture the Speedometer readings and the corresponding RPM of admiral during the course of your trip ?

Hi F150,
No not really. Was concentrating on the lovely landscape and the sheer joy of driving.
Besides was constantly distracted by my two collegemates whose sight kept reminding me of the truth (which I refuse to accept) as to how old one is, despite how young one looks and feels !
Next time perhaps.
Also remember that in one of my responses earlier to Nilanjan had mentioned about the gear/Speedo reading/RPM level or range. Maybe you could check that post. It was quite sometime ago.

Originally Posted by mdsaab

A Fortuner with it's rear wheels high atop a mound of some rubble.
Parked in close proximity to the restaurant.
Some of the perks of owning the T-Fort then.
Perks like these make you so wanna have one.
*Sigh*

Hi mdsaab,
That *sigh* has been very well expressed !

There have been many times I have faced the same situation - where I have parked Admiral in the oddest of positions and points where normally you wouldn't dream of parking a 'ordinary' (read any other !) vehicle. In the full understanding that the ol' chap can extricate himself from any spot of bother. Dug up road sides, crazy gutters, odd angles...just bring them on ! The high ground clearance, AWD and the 4X4 range system on the standby has some unorthodox usage/s for sure. Hmmm...Toyota's own brand of PAS - Park Assist System for a perpetually dug up city like Mumbai ?!!
Go eat your heart out other PAS enabled vehicles !

Originally Posted by charthom

1. Being an all-wheel drive how is the low speed ride-in city? You have written that he rode very well on the high way as well as the city. Is the ride good for a person with bad back for daily basis ride/drive? How stable he is at speeds above 120 kph? And at crawling speeds on pot hole ridden city roads?
And a curve-infected hill road with rough patches?

2. Apart from the bullying ability,how is he as a desirable vehicle? Is he ideal for those who do not off road much but would like to travel a lot comfortably?

3.Many claim that the Fortuner is a glorified Innova. Your unbiased views,please. I stress on the ride comfort part of it.

4. Are not bull bars etc reduce safety rather than enhance it?

Hi Charthom,
Before I start the presentation of my post-doctoral thesis in response to the Q's raised by you, I would like to state the following by way of statement of facts and as a preamble before I amble along:

A. That by the time I had finally zeroed in or was forced to zero in on the TFort as my next ride - I thought I had evaluated and test driven the Ford Endeavour, Yeti & Scorpio MHawk etc. Externally/internally examined, received all the brochures and details from the dealer and discussed to death (with a rather ill informed representative of the dealer) about the X1. Actually first received the payment terms and then the product brochure !

B. That I am least interested in defending or extolling the virtues of the TFort. And so shall be restricting myself only to how I have experienced the TFort and specifically the Admiral (each vehicle has an individual soul and behaviour, you see !). At best it can be a touch, feel, sense comparision with my earlier vehicles.

C. That I am the least qualified chappie to compare anything with the Innova - as I have no clue of the Innova except the spelling and the fact that I think I see it on the roads - as I have sat in it as a passenger of a taxi just once and also that I can't understand for the world of me as to why it is being compared with a TFort. As the applications of the two vehicles (or at least the intended ones by the manufacturer but now confused by the political class and others), the price points and features are vastly different as I have read from this forum and elsewhere.

That if I carry out the comparision the honourable questioner will next ask me to compare an alley cat with a tiger or worse compare an US Army Hummer (not a civilan H1/2/3) with a Hero Cycle.

d. That I am quite worried about the fact that if the preamble is this long - how long would the main response be ? So I shall be very cut and dry.

e. That I might use this opportunity to go in for a SONA (State of the Nation Address - not to be confused with sauna or sleep) as it is nearing almost 6 months of partnership with the Admiral.

Keeping the above in mind, I state and answer as under:

1. Low speed ride in the city is good. Though I don't have a bad back (touchwood !) I can hazard a guess that a person/persons with bad back/s shouldn't have an issue with the seats as the same is luxurious - especially the driver's seat. However stiff suspension might be an issue depending on the type of back problem - slip(ped) disc/ Sciatica/muscular degeneration/ disc degenration or space reduction/physical trauma related etc. Some amount of shock can pass on to the back is my feeling here. Not sure how it is in the other vehicles. But in a Scorpio, both leafspring and multilink variety, you may have to take along with you - your orthopedic surgeon with X-Ray equipment.

As far as stability is concerned - at high speeds, crawling speed with pot holes - very good (or vaaary dessaant as one Mr Boman Irani intoned in Khosla ka Ghosla). As far as curve infested hill road with rough surface - am still searching for one - shall report back after experiencing the same. Or may be went over some and never felt anything ? Not sure.

2. Desirable ? To my mind and eye - Very ! In a sort of John Wayne kind of a way and not a Tom Cruise ! Rough and ready type and not a city slicker appeal. If you would have read my long distance run reports - you would have read how one can go on and on without any sense of fatigue. Further I haven't done much of off roading - but still want to continue with the old boy forever.

3. As mentioned in the preamble. Cannot/will not/shall not compare it with Innerwear.

4. Actually the appendage in front of the Admiral is hardly a bull bar. It is what Toyota euphemistically calls as 'grill' guard. It is not attached to the chasis/ladder. It actually very light weight and hangs on for its dear life on the bumper with 4 bolts ! The pucca bull bar is indeed terrible, safety wise, for the occupants and the pedestrians in case of a high speed impact. These are bolted on to the frame/ladder and are real heavy mothers. Though it has its own charms in the city to keep away pesky space intruders like autos, taxis and other animals.

And SONA ? A brief one before a full blown one at the next milestone.

After almost 6 months of incessant usage - am just lovin' it. Wouldn't want anything else or any other. Sure it comes with its free supply of warts - but then show me any other vehicle which is blemish free !

I find it rather droll when I read people mentioning poor brakes/ride quality/interiors.

What matters to me is that I am satisfied.
And much of everything depends on your driving style and approach.

And should any issue arise I am sure it can be handled by big daddy Toyota. Though even they have warts and all in good measure.

But then ownership experience is not just the company taking all the initiative - 50% of it is the owner's drive and enthusiasm for the vehicle too.

Aloha !

[mdsaab]

So yesterday evening after a delectable parsi dinner.
We drove home on our regular route.
past the popular restaurant in KP.
and guess what i saw today.
A Civic with it's 2 front wheels up in the air.
On the exact same spot where the T-Fort flexed it's rear wheels yesterday.
Pretty amazing right!?!
Well one important thing was different.
The Pile of rubble was greatly reduced, allowing the Civic chap to perform the feat.
So was he inspired too by the T-Fort the other day? Probably ~ an interview with the chap would have revealed so.

[nilanjanray]

Regarding curvy hill roads with bad/good surfaces: have done this quite a lot. Very manageable and pretty comfortable if you drive it like a SUV. Once you get comfortable, you can push her/him. I usually end up climbing the Kalhatti ghats (36 hairpin bends before Ooty, supposedly one of the steepest sections in South India) faster than most people and on 2nd and 3rd gears. But, as I mentioned, you need to know what the vehicle can or can't do - and you need to be familiar with hill driving.

Note: On winding, non-tarmac roads (dirt/mud/rocky trails), it is a good idea to drive in HL.

Regarding ride quality: Innova's ride quality is a tiny bit better on good roads, I feel. Had done Delhi - Manali and back in an Innova taxi, and it was alright. On bad roads, the Fort is better. And with both the vehicles, on curves, you need to avoid sudden jerks on the steering wheel - bad for the passengers (body roll).

[charthom]

Originally Posted by amitwlele

I would let General answer all your questions. But only for the above point maybe you can check out dkaile's initial ownership review of the Falcon. It veered towards the comparison without any intention and led to heated debates

Thanks for the link,amitwele. the discussion was really enjoyable. This comparo and the resonses have been thoroughly informative and enjoyable. Thanks again for guiding me to it.

[quote=Guderian;2474845]Hi F150,

Hey Guderian,

Thanks for the trouble of the extensive thesis-friend!! Even though the doctorate is for you to keep!! I really appreciate it.

Hi Charthom,
Before I start the presentation of my post-doctoral thesis in response to the Q's raised by you, I would like to state the following by way of statement of facts and as a preamble before I amble along:

d. That I am quite worried about the fact that if the preamble is this long - how long would the main response be ? So I shall be very cut and dry.

Thanks for the pre-amble , Mate.

1. Low speed ride in the city is good. Though I don't have a bad back (touchwood !) Some amount of shock can pass on to the back is my feeling here. Not sure how it is in the other vehicles. But in a Scorpio, both leafspring and multilink variety, you may have to take along with you - your orthopedic surgeon with X-Ray equipment.

Good to hear this. No car is totally shock proof and offers perfect ride- but I did find the middle Captain's seats of the Hero cycle much more comfortable than many other cars. Hence wanted to pit it against the Military Hummers-since I had never been in one of them.

As far as stability is concerned - at high speeds, crawling speed with pot holes - very good

Good to note this. The Admiral is sure-footed on all tarmacs and speeds,obviously.

As far as curve infested hill road with rough surface - am still searching for one - shall report back after experiencing the same. Or may be went over some and never felt anything ? Not sure.

For this part,please note the post by Nilanjanray

2. Desirable ? To my mind and eye - Very ! In a sort of John Wayne kind of a way and not a Tom Cruise ! Rough and ready type and not a city slicker appeal. If you would have read my long distance run reports - you would have read how one can go on and on without any sense of fatigue. Further I haven't done much of off roading - but still want to continue with the old boy forever.

To my eyes too-very much.No doubt. Fatigue-free driving experience was very stimulating to read.Of course,actual fighting is done by the Sepoys- but hope the occasional off-roading was enjoyable too.

3. As mentioned in the preamble. Cannot/will not/shall not compare it with Innerwear.

Of course, rugged and tough camouflage uniforms are of another league altogether-though as invisible as innerwear -but an expert back specialist has suggested an automatic innerwear as the most ideal transport vehicle for bad backs-the auto,to avoid jerks while shifting.

4. Actually the appendage in front of the Admiral is hardly a bull bar. It is what Toyota euphemistically calls as 'grill' guard.

Thanks for this information.Nice to note this. How I had misunderstood you !!

Though it has its own charms in the city to keep away pesky space intruders like autos, taxis and other animals.

Quite useful in the busy animal farms and concrete jungles-one must admit.

After almost 6 months of incessant usage - am just lovin' it. Wouldn't want anything else or any other. Sure it comes with its free supply of warts - but then show me any other vehicle which is blemish free !
What matters to me is that I am satisfied.

Great to read this proclamation!!

And much of everything depends on your driving style and approach.

Well-almost.

And should any issue arise I am sure it can be handled by big daddy Toyota. Though even they have warts and all in good measure.

Plenty of warts.But still not enough to be a delight to the dermatologist.

But then ownership experience is not just the company taking all the initiative - 50% of it is the owner's drive and enthusiasm for the vehicle too.

Very true.

Well,HG,after much considerations,thoughts and rethoughts-I have decided to recommend your thesis.It is BhPian to BHPian,right!! Thanks a lot for another enjoyable post-this time custom made for me.

Auf Wiedersehen( sorry-never been to Hawaii)!!

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Regarding curvy hill roads with bad/good surfaces: have done this quite a lot. Very manageable and pretty comfortable if you drive it like a SUV. Once you get comfortable, you can push her/him. I usually end up climbing the Kalhatti ghats (36 hairpin bends before Ooty, supposedly one of the steepest sections in South India) faster than most people and on 2nd and 3rd gears. But, as I mentioned, you need to know what the vehicle can or can't do - and you need to be familiar with hill driving.

Note: On winding, non-tarmac roads (dirt/mud/rocky trails), it is a good idea to drive in HL.

Regarding ride quality: Innova's ride quality is a tiny bit better on good roads, I feel. Had done Delhi - Manali and back in an Innova taxi, and it was alright. On bad roads, the Fort is better. And with both the vehicles, on curves, you need to avoid sudden jerks on the steering wheel - bad for the passengers (body roll).

Nilanjan,thanks a lot for the info,Buddy.

Even though it is an impossible desirable vehicle,apart from inadequate parking space-what prevented me from considering thr Fortuner was the concerns over the ride quality( my wife has a very bad back). Many said Innova is a better rider.I could not imagine myself driving an Innova- it is not my idea of a desirable car-hence decided to go for a sedan.

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by charthom

Thanks for the trouble of the extensive thesis-friend!! Even though the doctorate is for you to keep!! I really appreciate it.

Hi Charthom,
Thanks for the observations and the kind words.
Couple of points I missed mentioning, though I had intended to, in the dissertation/ SONA - in brief:

1. Wonderful FE figures till date. Think size/weight/engine power/torque etc and yet !

2. Relatively (touchwood !) reasonable cost of servicing.


So overall, I believe, a delightful package in that range.

[mdsaab]

Originally Posted by Guderian

Hi Charthom,
Thanks for the observations and the kind words.
Couple of points I missed mentioning, though I had intended to, in the dissertation/ SONA - in brief:

1. Wonderful FE figures till date. Think size/weight/engine power/torque etc and yet !

2. Relatively (touchwood !) reasonable cost of servicing.

So overall, I believe, a delightful package in that range.

I.back you up on that Guderian.
The FE for the sheer size is amazing.
And the costs maintainenance have been jaw droppingly low.
It is indeed the wisest choice in it's class.
*Double Sigh*

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

I.back you up on that Guderian.
The FE for the sheer size is amazing.
And the costs maintainenance have been jaw droppingly low.
It is indeed the wisest choice in it's class.
*Double Sigh*

Hi mdsaab,
I guess very 'sigh'lently you could be making up your mind.
Suggest pick up the current looks and features before the new abomination hits you !
Need any help let us know.
All I can tell you is that the Classic TFort would be worth the deep dive.