[amitpunjani]

Buddy,

Just go ahead with CNG kit. My advice don't go with Sequnetial kits, firstly because of the Cost Factor involved, secondly they require to drill hole in the Cylinder Head. Just PM me, i will give you my mobile number for an excellent contact who fits CNG kits.

The VVT engine require an extra crank sensor to be fitted for the CNG kits.

To be honest, i am also looking for a pre owned SX4. I must say you are lucky to have such a low mileage SX4. Between i stay in Palam Vihar.

[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

Guys,

I have searched all the relevant posts made on CNG earlier - and more confused I am than before.

Here is the story - I have recently purcahsed a 4000kms driven SX4 ZXi VVT (May 2010) from Apra Motors(true Value). And I am looking forward to get it converted to CNG.

Please dont tell me disadvantages of CNG - I have a Swift ZXi which is nearing 1,10,000kms - out of which about 85,000 are purely on CNG (BRC kit + Advancer - not even a lambda installed) - I absolutely have NO issues at all.

On reading various forums, various threads here, good explanations by "wolfenstein" - I wanted to go ahead with the same kit as my old swift has. On the other hand Apra is forcing me with a sequential kit costing 65k - i do understand that it's more beneficial than the normal kit, but does it justify double the price? Moreover, I can't go against Apra as they are the one's who would honor my warranty for a year.

So, should I go ahead with sequential kit ? Also whats the best brand for it ?

Or can I try arguing with Apra on installing a normal kit ? (unless someone has a known buddy in Apra )

I have no technical knowledge on this, but I will reiterate one thing: go for the normal nozzle, that NGV is a headache and takes longer to fill, contrary to whatever people might say! On the other hand, if NGV supposed to be safer then safety should take precedence.

For a kit that is twice as expensive, mine did suffer a major breakdown within the year, but since the warranty was honored it did not cost me. If you are looking for a warranty cover then you may have to go with what Apra is 'forcing' on you.

I think you found a good car that was driven only 4k km, and I have maintained that CNG makes sense only for 'petrolheads' otherwise at 24% inflation, CNG is a losers story if ever you were to rue not buying a diesel car.

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

I have no technical knowledge on
...
...
I think you found a good car that was driven only 4k km, and I have maintained that CNG makes sense only for 'petrolheads' otherwise at 24% inflation, CNG is a losers story if ever you were to rue not buying a diesel car.

Whatever maths & calculations I do - in the end I love the silent humm of Petrol engine and approx 50% savings vs petrol. Have seen and heard loud and irritating diesel engine noise of many of friend's TATA's ....

[SuperSelect]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

I have maintained that CNG makes sense only for 'petrolheads' otherwise at 24% inflation, CNG is a losers story if ever you were to rue not buying a diesel car.

Hi Lithium !!

Read through your thread in detail - please accept my congratulations and appreciation for an extremely informative and well-written thread, on a subject that not many of us are aware of.

I am considering buying a CNG SX4 soon, and need your advice on the following. (forgive me if I sound dumb or am repeating some queries already addressed in your thread). My current car is a Swift VXi.

I'm looking at a CNG car primarily because of my long daily runs, and also for the fact that being a petrolhead, the thought of diesel clatter somehow doesn't appeal. My guess is that a CNG SX4 will give me the best of both worlds - practicality in terms of low running costs for the daily run, and petrol driven fun when I choose to have it.

1. What is a typical range of a tankfull of CNG, in kms ? (approximate, for city driving).
2. Can one refill a partially full CNG tank ? I'm asking this because CNG stations are not as widespread, and one would like to 'top up' at the first opportunity, than wait in queues with cabbies !!
3. To what extent is the boot used up, and how practical / impractical do you find it ? What about the spare wheel ?
4. The supposed difference in power that one feels while driving on CNG - I presume this is not valid when one switches the same car to petrol mode. Am I right here, or is it that a CNG car feels (relatively) underpowered even in petrol mode ?
5. You've mentioned that a CNG car also consumes some petrol while in CNG mode. Can you elaborate on this one ? Sorry if I sound dumb, but I'm just trying to put in perspective how economical it would eventually be, in real world terms..

Awaiting you views. From all angles, I'm looking at the SX4 CNG as a practical car, with great looks, useability, and service back-up to boot. What say ?

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by SuperSelect

Hi Lithium !!

Read through your thread in detail - please accept my congratulations and appreciation for an extremely informative and well-written thread, on a subject that not many of us are aware of.

I am considering buying a CNG SX4 soon, and need your advice on the following. (forgive me if I sound dumb or am repeating some queries already addressed in your thread). My current car is a Swift VXi.

I'm looking at a CNG car primarily because of my long daily runs, and also for the fact that being a petrolhead, the thought of diesel clatter somehow doesn't appeal. My guess is that a CNG SX4 will give me the best of both worlds - practicality in terms of low running costs for the daily run, and petrol driven fun when I choose to have it.

1. What is a typical range of a tankfull of CNG, in kms ? (approximate, for city driving).
2. Can one refill a partially full CNG tank ? I'm asking this because CNG stations are not as widespread, and one would like to 'top up' at the first opportunity, than wait in queues with cabbies !!
3. To what extent is the boot used up, and how practical / impractical do you find it ? What about the spare wheel ?
4. The supposed difference in power that one feels while driving on CNG - I presume this is not valid when one switches the same car to petrol mode. Am I right here, or is it that a CNG car feels (relatively) underpowered even in petrol mode ?
5. You've mentioned that a CNG car also consumes some petrol while in CNG mode. Can you elaborate on this one ? Sorry if I sound dumb, but I'm just trying to put in perspective how economical it would eventually be, in real world terms..

Awaiting you views. From all angles, I'm looking at the SX4 CNG as a practical car, with great looks, useability, and service back-up to boot. What say ?

Here you go -

1. Tankfull CNG would mean about 9 to 10KG of CNG ie minimum 20 km/KG, which translates to about 190 to 215km in a tankful.

2. With due course of time, you'll learn the art of filling up CNG - on right time. You can get it filled whenever you want - irrespective of how much is used. For example, my daily running is approx 65kms(32kms one side), so on my third day I get it filled up while going to office - or I get it filled up while coming back home on 2nd day - it all depends on the time when you see an empty queue ! I have been to Jaipur atleast 4 times from Gurgaon on CNG only

3. you'll still have almost half the space available. As far as I have seen good installations, cylinder is fit inside the two wheel archs inside the boot space. If the above is true, then you'll still have enough boot space for luggage.

4. A CNG car when run on petrol - will "feel" like petrol only - not a tinge in drop of performance or speed. On CNG, as far as drop in pickup etc is concerned, I have not felt much of it in my Swift after running approx 80k kms on CNG. Yet to install CNG on SX4 though.

5. I am not sure of factory fitted CNG's or for that matter Sequential Kit's - but in a case of normal kit + Lambda + Advancer setup, the only petrol consumed is while at the time of starting the car - for 5 seconds.(unless you plan to run at least a KM every morning on petrol - a suggestion I have seen in quite a places, but I have not followed it ) My 5 litres petrol which is the leftover from my last highway journey to Jaipur is still available - this is approx 4 months back.


You got it absolutely right buddy, great looks, great GC, great pickup, and excellent mileage and in addition a top notch service and spares backup from Maruti, In a nutshell, you'll love this car and also save 50% of your running cost on Petrol!

[SuperSelect]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

You got it absolutely right buddy, great looks, great GC, great pickup, and excellent mileage and in addition a top notch service and spares backup from Maruti, In a nutshell, you'll love this car and also save 50% of your running cost on Petrol!

Thanks a ton man - for that prompt and detailed reply. Just what I was waiting for.
You see, while I appreciate the torquey nature of the Fiat derived diesel, it does remain somewhere at the back of one's mind, that there's a constant clatter under the hood, or under your feet. Nothing can match the refined petrol experience, ultimately.
The Green SX4 is currently being offered at a discount in Mumbai. This is just the boost I needed - Here I come !!

[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by SuperSelect

Hi Lithium !!

Read through your thread in detail - please accept my congratulations and appreciation for an extremely informative and well-written thread, on a subject that not many of us are aware of.

I am considering buying a CNG SX4 soon, and need your advice on the following. (forgive me if I sound dumb or am repeating some queries already addressed in your thread). My current car is a Swift VXi.

I'm looking at a CNG car primarily because of my long daily runs, and also for the fact that being a petrolhead, the thought of diesel clatter somehow doesn't appeal. My guess is that a CNG SX4 will give me the best of both worlds - practicality in terms of low running costs for the daily run, and petrol driven fun when I choose to have it.

1. What is a typical range of a tankfull of CNG, in kms ? (approximate, for city driving).
2. Can one refill a partially full CNG tank ? I'm asking this because CNG stations are not as widespread, and one would like to 'top up' at the first opportunity, than wait in queues with cabbies !!
3. To what extent is the boot used up, and how practical / impractical do you find it ? What about the spare wheel ?
4. The supposed difference in power that one feels while driving on CNG - I presume this is not valid when one switches the same car to petrol mode. Am I right here, or is it that a CNG car feels (relatively) underpowered even in petrol mode ?
5. You've mentioned that a CNG car also consumes some petrol while in CNG mode. Can you elaborate on this one ? Sorry if I sound dumb, but I'm just trying to put in perspective how economical it would eventually be, in real world terms..

Awaiting you views. From all angles, I'm looking at the SX4 CNG as a practical car, with great looks, useability, and service back-up to boot. What say ?

I think ptaneja has answered all of your questions very well, I will add only the following:

If its the clatter that bothers you, then you should be know that there is a change in the pitch of the engine when the SX4 Green shifts from Petrol to CNG. Its not as bad as a diesel but maybe 15% closer?

I think the company fitted sequential kit is overall better in fit and finish as well as power delivery. The drop in power is perceptible but barely. Mind you, SX4 is beaten hollow in the in-gear acceleration timings by many cars. But it won't disappoint you from standstill starts.

Boot space is significantly reduced in the SX4 Green. I have seen more space in a DZire or even a Logan fitted with (aftermarket?) CNG tanks in their boots. You will not be able to fit more than two Cabin sized bags or one large bag in the SX4 boot. So if you make frequent trips ferrying people to the airport or railway station, be warned.

I try and top up the gas when it is on the last green light, which fills anything between 7.3 to 7.8 kg and gives me about 210km. I know it can run for another 30 odd km to absolute empty, so a tankful to empty should give me 240 km for city runs. I haven't been able to check the highway mileage on CNG. What you need to do is to identify a vend that has good pressure, most large mother stations do.

If you look up my earlier posts, I have given detailed calculations of how much petrol is consumed. On an average it needs about .3 liter of Petrol for every kg of cng, which at current prices adds about one rupee to the total fuel cost per km. In the last 13 odd months I have filled 505 kg of CNG worth Rs.15150.00 but I have also filled about 273 liters of Petrol worth Rs.17200.00. This gives me an average cost per KM of Rs.2.60. But this includes 2 or 3 out of town trips which had to be done on Petrol. The SX4 Green does not switch over to CNG mode within 5 seconds, and it is nearly impossible to start it on CNG, so as a rule I do not switch off the ignition at red lights if the durations are lesser than 2 minutes. So its possible that the company fitted sequential kit uses more petrol during the initial heating up.

I would still advice you to evaluate the diesel options. Look at your mileage per year and check out the diesel cars and their clatter, if it is money that you want to save. If saving the environment is your 'problem' then CNG is the only way to go!

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

Boot space is significantly reduced in the SX4 Green. I have seen more space in a DZire or even a Logan fitted with (aftermarket?) CNG tanks in their boots. You will not be able to fit more than two Cabin sized bags or one large bag in the SX4 boot. So if you make frequent trips ferrying people to the airport or railway station, be warned.

Hey Lithium, I have seen two types of cylinders available (aftermarket ) - dont know which types comes with company fitted kit. Difference in these two cylinders is in dimensions - one is a little fatter and small in length, whereas the other one is a little leaner and longer. So the one that would typically fit in between the wheel arches of SX4 boot is the first one. Storage capacity of both the cylinders is equal - 14KG's.

[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

Hey Lithium, I have seen two types of cylinders available (aftermarket ) - dont know which types comes with company fitted kit. Difference in these two cylinders is in dimensions - one is a little fatter and small in length, whereas the other one is a little leaner and longer. So the one that would typically fit in between the wheel arches of SX4 boot is the first one. Storage capacity of both the cylinders is equal - 14KG's.

Look at the pictures I put in this post, to give you an idea of the boot space available. I wonder if the cylinder is lean or fat, irrespective this is what came with the car!

[SuperSelect]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

Boot space is significantly reduced in the SX4 Green. I have seen more space in a DZire or even a Logan fitted with (aftermarket?) CNG tanks in their boots. You will not be able to fit more than two Cabin sized bags or one large bag in the SX4 boot. So if you make frequent trips ferrying people to the airport or railway station, be warned.


I would still advice you to evaluate the diesel options. Look at your mileage per year and check out the diesel cars and their clatter, if it is money that you want to save. If saving the environment is your 'problem' then CNG is the only way to go!

Thanks a ton, Lithium !! Will carefully evaluate the two options - Diesel v/s CNG, take TDs and then decide. Will keep you guys informed.

I'll say once again, - this is really a wonderful eye-opening thread. I used to mentally brush aside CNG cars, till I read your thread - thanks again, buddy.

[Jignesh]

Originally Posted by LithiumSunset

Look at the pictures I put in this post, to give you an idea of the boot space available. I wonder if the cylinder is lean or fat, irrespective this is what came with the car!

Hello LithiumSunset,

I came across this thread today & read all 10 pages at one go. Your thread is really a eye opener.

My dad is a petrol car lover & I always fight with him so that we can buy a CNG Car. But after reading your thread, it seems actual running cost of CNG & Diesel Car is almost the same.

This is because I believed earlier that CNG car costs approx Rs. 1.5 per KM, but after ready this thread I came to know that after considering the Petrol consumption (0.3 liters for 1 kg or CNG) it comes to approx 2.6 / 2.75 per KM. This is almost similar cost per KM in a Diesel Car.

Also seeing the political situation in the country currently, it does not seem that Diesel Prices will increase significantly till 2014 general elections.

Thank you this eye opener.

[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by Jignesh

Hello LithiumSunset,

I came across this thread today & read all 10 pages at one go. Your thread is really an eye opener.

My dad is a petrol car lover & I always fight with him so that we can buy a CNG Car. But after reading your thread, it seems actual running cost of CNG & Diesel Car is almost the same.

This is because I believed earlier that CNG car costs approx Rs. 1.5 per KM, but after ready this thread I came to know that after considering the Petrol consumption (0.3 liters for 1 kg or CNG) it comes to approx 2.6 / 2.75 per KM. This is almost similar cost per KM in a Diesel Car.

Also seeing the political situation in the country currently, it does not seem that Diesel Prices will increase significantly till 2014 general elections.

Thank you this eye opener.

My eyes have opened too, Jignesh. I recall the foolish caper I ran a few pages earlier in this post about an eyeopener (grins to self but sheepishly).

Its depressing!

SX4 is a fine car, no head turner, no scorcher, that's it. I have to admit that the very foundation of my analysis in the beginning was flawed. Inflation is not even across all the fuels. The so called green fuel is seeing the highest rates of inflation. I wish my economics was stronger!

If anybody were to ask me today, I would simply not recommend the CNG car if one is buying new. If you are ready to shell out that extra 60k for the fancied sequential kit over a petrol option, then find those extra 20 or 30 odd k more and buy the diesel mill. My current calculations show that over a 5 year ownership period, buying a SX4 VDi will save you about 2.3 lakhs over the SX4 Green and almost 3.9 lakhs over the SX4 VXi for an annual run between 11000 to 12000 km. It gets even better (or worse, depending on what you bought!) with higher yearly running. And therefore, for those who already have a petrol car, getting a kit installed does make a lot of sense, provided you don't do a lot of long distance traveling and don't mind the loss of space in the boot.

Green be damned, get the diesel, unless you have some inexplicable love for petrol engines!

[ptaneja]

I will not go deeper into economics and inflation - but for me running 1700-1800 odd kms/month on CNG costs approx 3000 to 3500/month. Had it been petrol it would be almost double.

The only thing I can't digest is the fact that .3ltrs of fuel is consumed along with CNG ? This has NEVER happened to me in the last 4 years of CNG ownership for any of my cars on CNG. A mere 200rs worth of petrol lasts months...months.

Maybe a different setup with company fitted kits ?

Whatever be the reason, I have never come across a person who fills up BOTH CNG and Petrol ...

[LithiumSunset]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

I will not go deeper into economics and inflation - but for me running 1700-1800 odd kms/month on CNG costs approx 3000 to 3500/month. Had it been petrol it would be almost double.

The only thing I can't digest is the fact that .3ltrs of fuel is consumed along with CNG ? This has NEVER happened to me in the last 4 years of CNG ownership for any of my cars on CNG. A mere 200rs worth of petrol lasts months...months.

Maybe a different setup with company fitted kits ?

Whatever be the reason, I have never come across a person who fills up BOTH CNG and Petrol ...

Hmmm, is something amiss in my Car?

Even I had not bargained for this 0.3 litres per KG of CNG and that is exactly what has upset my calculations. I have a detailed log of every fill that I have made over the last 15 odd months of ownership, both Petrol and CNG. In fact the actual consumption of petrol is 0.5 liter per KG of CNG, but I have discounted the quantity of petrol used in my out station trips.

Is there someone whom I can talk to? Any other resident TBHP expert out there? Please help me clear my doubts..

I wish I could cleanse my veins of this 'Sadashiv Peth' blood and just enjoy the car! [Oh shoot, I've given away my closely guarded identity, but from the tenor of this thread, it must have been obvious much earlier...]

[Deeps]

What is your usage pattern of petrol? I've been on CNG for the past 5 years over 2 cars. I've followed the practice of running 5 kms on Petrol on the first trip of the day and starting on petrol all the time (this happens automatically).

Do you follow a different petrol usage pattern - discounting the outstation trips scenario.