Safari EX 4x4 120,000 km update

Bailee_Jatt_Boy · 21st March 2009, 10:06

Tanveer Dude, I am so sorry to hear about your ordeal! I can imagine what you are going through.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and you have fun with your beast.

Just in case there still are issues I totally agree with aaggoswami, you should not sell this car or give it up. Take it to the court man! I know it is tough but you should not give up

Jaggu · 21st March 2009, 12:47

Quote:

It would be very helpful if you and/or all those technically competent clearly please describe the chain of events - like what happened sequentially? A bent pipe plus a radiator leak at the same time - arent the odds huge?

If the tube is dangling, and if it's soft (due to heated coolant), a decent jerk might turn it and choke it like garden hose chokes when turned. This can be disastorous.

Radiator leaks>>hose choked>>overflow tank doesnt help in replenish due to the tube>>engine heats up>>owner and garage guys bangs head

Hope it's more clear.

adc · 21st March 2009, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Hope it's more clear.

Sure it is, thanks again.

anupmathur · 21st March 2009, 13:40

Radiator coolant heats up, expands and this force opens the spring loaded valve to send some coolant to the overflow tank.
How does it get back into the radiator when the coolant contracts on cooling? There's a spring loaded valve in the way, fitted for the wrong direction, remember!

So is there another valve that enables the reverse flow? Yes there is a vacuum valve and if this jams, coolant can never get back into the radiator, bent pipe or not!
And, if the radiator has even a small leak, vacuum will never build up to open the vacuum breaker valve; instead atmospheric air will keep getting inducted whenever the coolant contracts on cooling!
Am I missing something?

SS-Traveller · 21st March 2009, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Am I missing something?

No, Sir, you didn't miss anything. All those jobs are done by the humble radiator cap.

A radiator cap has several functions. (1) It keeps the cooling system sealed from outside contaminants. (2) By keeping pressure on the cooling system, it raises the boiling point. (3) The radiator cap allows coolant to go to the expansion recovery (overflow) tank when coolant gets hot, expands, and pressures increase. (4) As the system cools down, it allows coolant to return to the engine from the expansion recovery tank. A bad radiator cap can cause the engine to overheat at lower temperatures. This will cause the coolant to boil over to the expansion tank. A radiator cap that is faulty could also prevent coolant from returning to the radiator. This would create a vacuum and can cause the radiator hoses to collapse. But, as you mentioned, a substantial leak in the radiator body or pipes will not let the vacuum build up, so suckback from the overflow tank will not happen.

Hope I didn't miss something in this...

Jaggu · 21st March 2009, 15:37

And this is becoming outdated technology i guess, modern designs actually are getting rid of radiator cap and radiator is directly connected to a pressurized reservoir tank

Good article, read this to get some understanding.

Cooling System Overflow Tanks and Expansion Tanks - Les Bengtson

tsk1979 · 21st March 2009, 16:03

Actually in my 2002 indica, the radiator has no cap.
The plastic tank is pressurized and thats the only point from where you can pour water in the cooling system

Jaggu · 21st March 2009, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Actually in my 2002 indica, the radiator has no cap.
The plastic tank is pressurized and thats the only point from where you can pour water in the cooling system

Yup thats what am talking about, and watching the coolant reservoir tank makes more sense in that. In a radiator and coolant overflow tank ideally opening the cap and inspecting is better.

Caution: Do it only after car has cooled down a bit.

anupmathur · 21st March 2009, 16:10

So which kind of arrangement does the Safari 2.2 VTT use?

Jaggu · 21st March 2009, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

So which kind of arrangement does the Safari 2.2 VTT use?

Its a jugal bandi design, from the pic atleast

. The pressure cap seems like sitting far from the radiator and connected by tubes. From pressure cap conventional overflow systems!

Correct me if am wrong from looking at pics.

tsk1979 · 21st March 2009, 16:34

Yup you are right, pressure cap is actually a little far from the actual radiator, and is connected by a thick sturdy tube to radiator, and a thin flimsy one to the plastic coolant tank

anupmathur · 21st March 2009, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Its a jugal bandi design, from the pic atleast . The pressure cap seems like sitting far from the radiator and connected by tubes. From pressure cap conventional overflow systems!

Well, I could not figure out from the pics, hence asked.
The radiator cap makes me believe it is the regular system but the overflow bottle? How come the connection is going to the bottom? Or is it not?

The fact that there is a cap, it probably contains both the pressure valve and the vacuum breaker valve.
Anyone?

SS-Traveller · 21st March 2009, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur

The fact that there is a cap, it probably contains both the pressure valve and the vacuum breaker valve.
Anyone?

The tank in the Safari and most of our other cars is an overflow tank and not a pressurised expansion tank - it's plastic, with a flip-top cap. The expansion tank is installed exactly as the overflow tank is, but should be located about the level of the radiator header tank. (http://www.custompistols.com/cars/articles/overflow.htm).

anupmathur · 21st March 2009, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

The tank in the Safari and most of our other cars is an overflow tank and not a pressurised expansion tank - it's plastic, with a flip-top cap. The expansion tank is installed exactly as the overflow tank is, but should be located about the level of the radiator header tank. (http://www.custompistols.com/cars/articles/overflow.htm).

I am actually asking about coolant flow from tank to radiator.
Does that provision exist on the Safari? I'm sure it does.
That article posted by Jaggu would have you believe that coolant from the expansion tank will not go back to the radiator. Hence the confusion.

dadu · 21st March 2009, 22:10

Its a pressurised tank, controlled by the valve in the cap which acts as the gateway. When vaccum is created it sucks and when pressure it expels.

It doesnt make a difference if the pipe ends at the bottom of the plastic tank or on top, because in the top design also there's a pipe running through & through to the bottom of this tank.

As long as the mouth of pipe ending in the plastic tank is covered under coolant, vaccum and pressure mechanism will work.

21st March 2009, 10:06	#916
Bailee_Jatt_Boy BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 127 Thanked: 6 Times	Omg! Tanveer Dude, I am so sorry to hear about your ordeal! I can imagine what you are going through. Hopefully it all gets sorted out and you have fun with your beast. Just in case there still are issues I totally agree with aaggoswami, you should not sell this car or give it up. Take it to the court man! I know it is tough but you should not give up
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 13:40	#919
anupmathur Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 3,095 Thanked: 311 Times	Radiator coolant heats up, expands and this force opens the spring loaded valve to send some coolant to the overflow tank. How does it get back into the radiator when the coolant contracts on cooling? There's a spring loaded valve in the way, fitted for the wrong direction, remember! So is there another valve that enables the reverse flow? Yes there is a vacuum valve and if this jams, coolant can never get back into the radiator, bent pipe or not! And, if the radiator has even a small leak, vacuum will never build up to open the vacuum breaker valve; instead atmospheric air will keep getting inducted whenever the coolant contracts on cooling! Am I missing something? Last edited by anupmathur : 21st March 2009 at 13:52.
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 15:37	#921
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,270 Thanked: 16,196 Times	And this is becoming outdated technology i guess, modern designs actually are getting rid of radiator cap and radiator is directly connected to a pressurized reservoir tank Good article, read this to get some understanding. Cooling System Overflow Tanks and Expansion Tanks - Les Bengtson Last edited by Jaggu : 21st March 2009 at 15:50.
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 16:03	#922
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,724 Thanked: 22,974 Times View My Garage	Actually in my 2002 indica, the radiator has no cap. The plastic tank is pressurized and thats the only point from where you can pour water in the cooling system
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 16:10	#924
anupmathur Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 3,095 Thanked: 311 Times	So which kind of arrangement does the Safari 2.2 VTT use?
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 16:34	#926
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,724 Thanked: 22,974 Times View My Garage	Yup you are right, pressure cap is actually a little far from the actual radiator, and is connected by a thick sturdy tube to radiator, and a thin flimsy one to the plastic coolant tank
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 22:10	#930
dadu Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,803 Thanked: 462 Times View My Garage	Its a pressurised tank, controlled by the valve in the cap which acts as the gateway. When vaccum is created it sucks and when pressure it expels. It doesnt make a difference if the pipe ends at the bottom of the plastic tank or on top, because in the top design also there's a pipe running through & through to the bottom of this tank. As long as the mouth of pipe ending in the plastic tank is covered under coolant, vaccum and pressure mechanism will work.
	() Thanks