[tharian]

Something that I tried for fun on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

I had my previous car's BMC performance conical filter. I had a feeling it was not the right size for a 1.5 engine and I was right. I removed the stock filter box cover for space and used the stock intake hose to hold the conical resting on the open filter box.
There is a MAF sensor between the filter box and intake hose which will throw a check engine light since it cannot be plugged in without the stock air box. Thankfully I have the Torque app to erase it once I confirmed the error.
Coming to the drive, the engine couldn't rev above 2.5k rpms due the small filter . But the initial torque felt better and the lag, whatever is there, reduced. No smoke.
Coming to the sound, there was a nice whoosh sound when I lifted off the accelerator, probably the blow off, not too loud. The turbo spinning sound was not much, it came and went at a certain rpm like a burble whistle. Drove just a short distance since both the engine malfunction and spanner lights came on.
If I had the right size filter for this engine size, I would have probably left it and found a way to insert the MAF sensor. The sound is fun to drive with. For now, I have gone back to stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8x4...&feature=share

With headphones,its audible.

[d3mon]

The size of the air filter isn't the issue - the car couldn't rev above 2.5K as it went into a limp mode for it's own protection when if found the MAF readings to be stuck at close to 0.

This engine doesn't have a blow off valve either - like most diesels. That's mostly a purview of turbo petrols. So the sounds that you heard were just regular intake sounds.

Also, a filter like this may be a bad idea vis-a-vis the stock intake, as it routes in cold air from the front of the engine bay, as opposed to the hot air that an open filter would get.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by d3mon

The size of the air filter isn't the issue - the car couldn't rev above 2.5K as it went into a limp mode for it's own protection when if found the MAF readings to be stuck at close to 0.

This engine doesn't have a blow off valve either - like most diesels. That's mostly a purview of turbo petrols. So the sounds that you heard were just regular intake sounds.

Also, a filter like this may be a bad idea vis-a-vis the stock intake, as it routes in cold air from the front of the engine bay, as opposed to the hot air that an open filter would get.

I had a feeling it was limp mode too, but wasn't sure since I hadn't experienced it.
Not having a blow off valve is news to me.
Yes, it didn't make sense since the intake temp increased by 10c with this set up. After I reverted to stock, all was good.
I'll probably look for a stock panel type filter.

[d3mon]

I've experienced the limp mode with the spanner during an experiment of mine too

The blow off valve is needed in petrols to avoid turbine damage due to a sudden compressor surge when the throttle plate is closed. It vents off the excess boost to the atmosphere, instead of letting it go back to the turbo. Diesels (usually) don't have a throttle body and hence they don't use a blow off valve.

BTW before you get a stock panel replacement filter, you may want to read the MAF values with and without the stock filter. I suspect they'll be within a % or two of each other - which means even the best performance filter won't get you any additional perf. Me? I have seen 108g/s with the dual channel dieseltronic, which is way more than the 91 or so that I used to get with the stock map. So I'm assuming that the stock air filter, cleaned and replaced regularly (5K KMs) is more than good enough for a stock car

[tharian]

Originally Posted by d3mon

I've experienced the limp mode with the spanner during an experiment of mine too

The blow off valve is needed in petrols to avoid turbine damage due to a sudden compressor surge when the throttle plate is closed. It vents off the excess boost to the atmosphere, instead of letting it go back to the turbo. Diesels (usually) don't have a throttle body and hence they don't use a blow off valve.

BTW before you get a stock panel replacement filter, you may want to read the MAF values with and without the stock filter. I suspect they'll be within a % or two of each other - which means even the best performance filter won't get you any additional perf. Me? I have seen 108g/s with the dual channel dieseltronic, which is way more than the 91 or so that I used to get with the stock map. So I'm assuming that the stock air filter, cleaned and replaced regularly (5K KMs) is more than good enough for a stock car

Something tells me this diesel does have a Blow off valve, because the TDCi does have throttle body. I remember reading that in Sankar's Innova mods thread.

Either ways, I did it just for the sound and I was surprised to hear a blow off valve sound everytime I lifted off. The stock filter is perfect , the reason I thought of the replacement filter was so I can clean it whenever I want as the filter element is re-useable.

[SunnyBoi]

Forget the filter, I have serious concerns looking at the amount of oil on the inlet pipe!



Get your PCV valve and turbo seals checked ASAP.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

Forget the filter, I have serious concerns looking at the amount of oil on the inlet pipe!

Get your PCV valve and turbo seals checked ASAP.

Making the A.S.S attend to that will be a task.
I noticed it too but thought it's from the engine vent pipe above it. (The picture is inverted)
But if there is a oil leak, won't there be oil smoke from the exhaust?
I have a long trip coming up this weekend too.

[SunnyBoi]

Originally Posted by tharian

Making the A.S.S attend to that will be a task.
I noticed it too but thought it's from the engine vent pipe above it. (The picture is inverted)
But if there is a oil leak, won't there be oil smoke from the exhaust?
I have a long trip coming up this weekend too.

This oil leak might be too small to be noticed from the exhaust.

If the oil is present at the inlet of the turbo, its going through the compressor wheel, intercooler, throttle body, manifold combustion chamber and pistons; effectively clogging them all.

You should be fine driving the car as is for the long trip but do get it checked and rectified as soon as possible. I highly suspect the PCV/oil separator malfunctioning in your car.

If and when they fix it, make sure they remove the intercooler and clean it thoroughly as well.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

This oil leak might be too small to be noticed from the exhaust.

If the oil is present at the inlet of the turbo, its going through the compressor wheel, intercooler, throttle body, manifold combustion chamber and pistons; effectively clogging them all.

You should be fine driving the car as is for the long trip but do get it checked and rectified as soon as possible. I highly suspect the PCV/oil separator malfunctioning in your car.

If and when they fix it, make sure they remove the intercooler and clean it thoroughly as well.

Is this possible on a 4k kms run car already? I don't drive hard either, just once a while push it over 3k rpms.
The other thing was that after the first check up, I didn't check the engine oil dipstick until I ran around 300-400kms and then when I checked, noticed that the engine oil looked like how it is in the above picture in the turbo intake which made me feel they hadn't replaced as I requested and instead would have topped it up. However, the engine oil level is correct on the dipstick.
Wondering if a small amount of oil is normal on these engines. I will clean out the oil before the trip from the intake and check after I return.

Thanks for the heads up since I thought a bit of oil from the vent pipe was normal.

[SunnyBoi]

Originally Posted by tharian

Is this possible on a 4k kms run car already? I don't drive hard either, just once a while push it over 3k rpms.

Wondering if a small amount of oil is normal on these engines. I will clean out the oil before the trip from the intake and check after I return.

Thanks for the heads up since I thought a bit of oil from the vent pipe was normal.

This much oil is not normal at all. I have a slightly malfunctioning PCV valve on my 10 year old Cedia and it has 5 to 10 times less oil in the manifold as you have right now. I'm even considering putting in an oil catch can to prevent oil getting into the manifold.

You shouldn't have any problems with oil reduction on your drive, just that this oil in your intake will gum/clog lot of components, your car wont be 100% and might cause complications in the future.

Originally Posted by tharian

The other thing was that after the first check up, I didn't check the engine oil dipstick until I ran around 300-400kms and then when I checked, noticed that the engine oil looked like how it is in the above picture in the turbo intake which made me feel they hadn't replaced as I requested and instead would have topped it up. However, the engine oil level is correct on the dipstick.

This is very common in diesel cars. 50KMs is enough to turn any oil black.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by tharian

Something tells me this diesel does have a Blow off valve, because the TDCi does have throttle body. I remember reading that in Sankar's Innova mods thread.

Hi tharian, there's no BOV in Diesels even if it has a throttle body. Though in some highly tuned diesrls people run aftermarket diesel specific kits.

The oil is from PCV. Theres no solution to this except a catch can. This much is normal in this engine. 1.3MJD is worse off in this regard.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Hi tharian, there's no BOV in Diesels even if it has a throttle body. Though in some highly tuned diesrls people run aftermarket diesel specific kits.

The oil is from PCV. Theres no solution to this except a catch can. This much is normal in this engine. 1.3MJD is worse off in this regard.

Thanks for the info and clarification.

So, if there is no catch can on these engines, won't it affect in the long run like SunnyBoi mentioned?
Is there an aftermarket solution to this?

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by tharian

Thanks for the info and clarification.

So, if there is no catch can on these engines, won't it affect in the long run like SunnyBoi mentioned?
Is there an aftermarket solution to this?

The car won't be 100% thats true, but then this is how these engines (modern diesels with emissions controls) are designed to run. This oil mist from PCV and soot from EGR will mix and form a tar like substance and it builds up on the walls of intake manifold and ports. Being a gradual process most owners fail to notice any change in engine performance. Usually it will take more than 100000KMs for the carbon build up to restrict the flow and affect performance and economy.

Aftermarket solution is EGR block, but that is defeating an emissions device. Installing an oil-catch-can traps oil mist in PCV fumes but carbon from EGR will still build up albeit in a fluffy form instead of being tar like.

If your old TDCI functioned as per your expectations till you sold her off then my suggestion would be to leave this as it is. But if you want the intake to stay clean and demand optimum performance over the years then now is the time to turn off or block EGR as its still new and intake is clean. Once you turn off/Block EGR then you need not worry about PCV oil mist, on its own it doesn't affect Diesel performance much even over long time.

[tharian]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Installing an oil-catch-can traps oil mist in PCV fumes but carbon from EGR will still build up albeit in a fluffy form instead of being tar like.

If your old TDCI functioned as per your expectations till you sold her off then my suggestion would be to leave this as it is.

The oil in the turbo intake (in the pic) was just from the fumes ? I thought it was because it did not have an oil separator since there is no catch can.

I'll have to think of a EGR block depending how long I am going to keep the car.

My old car was a petrol

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by tharian

The oil in the turbo intake (in the pic) was just from the fumes ? I thought it was because it did not have an oil separator since there is no catch can.

I'll have to think of a EGR block depending how long I am going to keep the car.

My old car was a petrol

It should be having an oil separator unit but it may not be of a catch can type design (which is better and some manufacturers use this type eg BMW). 1.3MJD also has an oil separator but its not good either and still lets similar amount of mist into the intake.