[saket77]

Great work Shashi. Although, you are already under some great advise of Dhabhar Sir, just a word of caution for dealing with speedos. Be very careful while working with the speedo. The hairspring is very delicate. If you manage to damage it, you may need to replace the entire unit. MPFi speedo units are probably different and cost much more than older ones.
Once mine was damaged by the ASC while pulling out the speedo cable. After that my speedo became a restless animal and started flickering so much that it would bounce to even 80 kmph mark even while driving at 20 kmph! Later the ASC themselves changed it on their cost. The cost was probably around 3K if I remember correctly.

It was just a word of gentle caution, I have no doubts on your ability though.

Regards,
Saket.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi

For speedometer, it is a very delicate part. The forces required to assemble it have to be very closely controlled and monitored. Work on it and learn, all the best, but if it doesn't work, be prepared to change the whole thing and be done with it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Originally Posted by saket77

Be very careful while working with the speedo. The hairspring is very delicate. If you manage to damage it, you may need to replace the entire unit. MPFi speedo units are probably different and cost much more than older ones.

Good News!!!-Managed to fix the speedometer myself, feeling ecstatic upon fixing something to perfection on my own. This is probably the first time I have fixed something in my car probably without creating any other issue.

Background- We were on a 2,500 km road trip and were crossing Purnea(in Bihar) when the speedo got stuck at 20kmph mark. Also noticed that the odometer was rolling freely, which meant that something had broken inside.

The condition of speedometer. Note the odometer and the Zero position


Day 1 of fixing- Using careful application of Feviquick, I fixed the speedo issue. The odometer had broken free from its housing, and its frame was fouling with the speedo needle's base disc. I fixed the odometer where I felt was its original place. To recreate the frame, I used motlen plastic from a refill.

Speedo unit disassembled


That tiny projection of the round disc was fouling with the broken odometer assembly


Note the crude molten refill fix on the odometer mounts. Also note-the cogs were barely touching


Meanwhile, BHPian a4anurag hunted down the speedo for 5 Speed 800 and sent me its pictures. The difference between 5 speed units and later units was that 5 speed's assembly had a speed sensor integrated within it. While other MPFI speedometers will also work in my car, it would throw a MIL as the required speed sensor would be absent. The pictures sent by BHPian a4anurag confirmed that the part number which I was looking for had the required sensor. Thanks a lot man for all this help!!

The PCB confirms the presence of speed sensor on the new speedometer assembly

Part number on the picture sent by Anurag Sir


Reason of my reluctance to go with a new speedometer-


1. I didn't like the background of the newer speedometers.
2. My speedo assembly has separate (P) mark for parking lamp and a (!) lamp for lower brake fluids. The newer ones had a common brake fluid and parking brake indicator.

Effect of Day 1 of fixing speedometer-The speed indication was perfect. However the odo moved a bit too slow. It showed 700m for a distance of 7kms. Also the odo didn't roll at high speeds, which aroused suspicion that probably the cogs of the speedometer were slipping due to inadequate binding. To add to the misery, the digits were too low, and were not aligned properly.

Not satisfied with the outcome-numbers on the odo appeared a bit too inside and misaligned



Day 2 of fixing- I took a close look at the speedometer yesterday, and after 4 hours of struggle with the odometer specially, I managed to complete the work.

Work done-

1. Opened the odometer frame, and aligned the digits properly. This was the hardest part as the digits used to roll by the time I tried to close the frame. Took me 3 hours alone to get this sorted out. Lastly, I brought gravity to my help which prevented odo from rolling while I fixed its frame.

2. I also fabricated a crude but perfectly working plastic frame, again from the empty gel pen refills and fixed the odometer at a place where the visibility was perfect and it also doesn't foul with the speedometer disc.

3. Fix everything back properly while ensuring that no fingerprint or dust remains inside.

Speedo assembly in the OT again!!


All fixed


Took the car out for a trial, and used GPS and milestones to check if the speedometer was working fine or not. Happy to report that everything is fine now.

Sincere thanks to BHPians a4anurag, DHABAR.BEHRAM, Saket77, Sumitsinha0280 and my friend and 800 guru Varun, who helped me in every way possible. Thanks a lot guys.

Regards,
Shashi

[saket77]

That's quite some hard and real smart work. And seems like we were right in suspecting slipping cogs/ gears in the unit. Fabricating parts from molten plastics esp for something as delicate as the speedo is great job and shows your technical prowess.
By the way, I hope that you were able to not only spot what actually gave up inside but have also made sure that the same was not because of a 'chain reaction' of malfunction of some other part.
And just wanted to ask that don't the newer 800s have VSS? They sure be having the CEL being MPFi units?

Take care of your golden goose!

Regards,
Saket.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by saket77

That's quite some hard and real smart work. And seems like we were right in suspecting slipping cogs/ gears in the unit. Fabricating parts from molten plastics esp for something as delicate as the speedo is great job and shows your technical prowess.

Thanks!!

By the way, I hope that you were able to not only spot what actually gave up inside but have also made sure that the same was not because of a 'chain reaction' of malfunction of some other part.

Yes, I have checked all parts. The odo housing broke as the plastics were too brittle. I'm glad I decided to open the speedo and have a look, as all MASSes had recommended replacement of the assembly straightforward. Even my MASS said that they don't recommend opening of speedo as there are too many delicate springs in there.

And just wanted to ask that don't the newer 800s have VSS? They sure be having the CEL being MPFi units?

As per my friend Varun who specialises in 800s , VSS was not installed in cars post 2003. They didn't throw CEL as probably their ECM was different, and hence didn't require VSS. I have confirmed that T3 800's don't have this speed sensor unit.

This is the speed sensor unit


No need to open the unit to confirm the presence of VSS. Have a look at the images below-the two screws encircled confirm its presence.


PCB of my speedo(which came from factory). Also have a look at the date written below


Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

[b]Good News! Fixed the speedometer myself, feeling ecstatic upon fixing something to perfection on my own. This is probably the first time I have fixed something in my car probably without creating any other issue. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - now see how nice you are feeling! . This is root cause analysis. But it is still not over! .

Now the thing has to work as it is supposed to, and establish it's performance to requirements and reliability to a time and distance scale. If you get positive answers to these needs with a reasonable factor of safety, then it is over.

Remember, that when you do the work like this, you will never ever forget the content of what you did, to deliver the desired result. I have been doing root cause analysis all the time, this is the most "self-rewarding" experience you can ever get. So, continue to do it, there is no other way! All the best and congratulations!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi - now see how nice you are feeling! . This is root cause analysis. But it is still not over! .

Now the thing has to work as it is supposed to, and establish it's performance to requirements and reliability to a time and distance scale. If you get positive answers to these needs with a reasonable factor of safety, then it is over.

Remember, that when you do the work like this, you will never ever forget the content of what you did, to deliver the desired result. I have been doing root cause analysis all the time, this is the most "self-rewarding" experience you can ever get. So, continue to do it, there is no other way! All the best and congratulations!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Completely agree Sir. That feeling of accomplishment is unlike any. This is precisely the reason I feel that you have the best job in the world.

I have driven around 400kms since the odometer was fixed, and its behaving naturally. Will be keeping an eye on its behaviour over the next few days.

By the way, it seems that the bad days for my 800 isn't getting over anytime soon. Had to change the windshield rubber as it was leaking. Although the leak was very less, I still decided to get it changed. That's when things started to get ugly. The new rubber was declared defective by the installer at the MASS. Even the 2nd and the third rubber had some sort of issue, such that the leak actually increased. Couldn't believe that the quality of new MGP spares had gone down so much.

At my MASS, with the windshield removed. They cleaned the visible dust on the frame.


Since they had exhausted their stock, for the time being, they have installed the windshield using the older rubber. That has controlled the leak to some extent but it isn't completely solved. The leak is such that it isn't visible while doing half an hour of pressure wash. But after driving in heavy rains for more than 2 hours, evidence of water is found in the footwell. Will be going over this Sunday again to get the new rubber installed.

Testing in heavy rains


The amount of water after squeezing the insulation behind the firewall


Meanwhile I decided to check out other MASSes for the installation. They have literally frustated me. Here are the quotes and suggestions given by them. I had asked them to remove the dashboard so that any leak is visible instantly and not when it wets all the insulation.

1. My MASS-M/s Maruti Automobiles

New rubber-Rs. 370
Labour-Rs. 200
Dashboard removal and installation-Rs. 250
Total-Rs. 820

2. M/s Premsons Motor, Dealer workshop

New rubber-Rs. 370
Labour-Rs. 700
Dashboard removal-Rs. 1400
Drying the wet insulation-Rs. 800
Silicon glue(if required)-Rs. 800

Total-Rs. 4,070
Suggestion-If the rubber installation isn't able to arrest the leak, then chassis alignment is doubtful

3. M/s Sushila Automobiles, ex MASS

New rubber-Rs. 370
Labour-Rs. 700
Dash removal-Rs. 1400
AC gas removal and recharging-Rs. 1000
Drying the insulation-Rs. 1000
Total- 4,470
Suggestion-Even this MASS advised me to get the chassis alignment checked. Also, as per them, dashboard removal in AC cars need removal of AC refrigerant.
Bloody cheaters!!!

My query is-My car has never been involved in any sort of collision which involves structural damage. How can then the chassis go out of alignment on its own?? Those two MASSes are of the opinion that bad roads can also trigger such misalignment. I agree that I do sometimes travel on bad roads, but just to give you and idea, my lower arms and front struts are still stock. So shouldn't they go bad before the chassis is affected in any way??

My regular MASS is adamant that its the rubber which is causing the leak and not the body. I would also like to ask that is application of rubber sealant advisable along with the rubber?? I was suggested by a close friend to try using this incase the rubber isn't able to control the leaks.

Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

1. The leak is such that it isn't visible while doing half an hour of pressure wash. But after driving in heavy rains for more than 2 hours, evidence of water is found in the foot-well. 2, Suggestion is that if the rubber installation isn't able to arrest the leak, then chassis alignment is doubtful. My car has never been involved in any sort of collision which involves structural damage. How can then the chassis go out of alignment on its own? Those two MASSes are of the opinion that bad roads can also trigger such misalignment. 3. I would also like to ask that is application of rubber sealant advisable along with the rubber? Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - my reply to your 3 queries are as follows:

1 and 3: It is important to understand the source of water entry. Check whether the "fresh air" vent is properly closed. Proper application of correct specification of sealant (if required) will solve the issue, as you have indicated very less quantity of water inside the car. I have no idea on the sealant specification, I will try to find out. Maruti 800 original rubber beadings had excellent ageing properties, so retain the original rubber if it is not physically damaged.

2: People talk anything. Don't boil your blood, it's not worth it. I was like you only and I used to get angry and have arguments with them, then I used to pity them, now I have no emotion for them! I just quietly do my work. Talk to the workers in the dealership, they will give you excellent insight, because finally they solve the problems. For one worker, you will have 10 "yes sir" guys, because yes sir guys are easier to control and manipulate in reviews, isn't it! Hahaha! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi - my reply to your 3 queries are as follows:

1 and 3: It is important to understand the source of water entry. Check whether the "fresh air" vent is properly closed.

Thanks a lot for your useful insights, always look forward to them.

I have checked the source of water entry-its from the edges of the windshield. For this very reason, I have requested my SA to remove the dashboard, so that the leak is visible as soon as it occurs, and not after getting absorbed in the insulation and then dripping.

Proper application of correct specification of sealant (if required) will solve the issue, as you have indicated very less quantity of water inside the car. I have no idea on the sealant specification, I will try to find out.

I will be applying the conventional rubber pasting sealant used in newer cars.
Those will be primarily used in and around edges, where the factory installed sealant was.

Maruti 800 original rubber beadings had excellent ageing properties, so retain the original rubber if it is not physically damaged.

I wholeheartedly agree!! The replacement MGP beading isn't as good as the original ones which came from the factory. Mine ones have just become a bit hard around the edges, and aren't physically damaged. Even my SA marked that the quality of replacement beadings aren't as good as the ones installed currently

2: People talk anything. Don't boil your blood, it's not worth it. I was like you only and I used to get angry and have arguments with them, then I used to pity them, now I have no emotion for them!

True. I guess I'll need to get a bit more professional with these idiots.

Regards,
Shashi

[Leoshashi]

Updates

Golden goose gets a new set of locks.- I noticed yesterday that the dust protector mechanism of the left side door lock had broken, rendering that side keyhole useless. Although my SA said that they can try to repair it, I thought it fit to change all locks at once.

Part number-37019M84032
Part Name-Lock Assembly, Steering
Price-Rs. 1,155
Labour-Rs. 200

Part number


Old key(left) vs New Key(Right). The new key is chunkier and heavier than the early one


Windshield Leak issue-Fixed My SA and the denter were ready with the rubber weatherstrip and rubber sealant, and despite being extremely crowded today, they ensured that I had to wait for the least time possible.

Although windshield in M800 can be installed without taking the dashboard off, I made the mechanics remove the dash, so that even the minutest of the leaks can be traced. This gave me opportunity to inspect the condition of the insulation, as it was drenched a few days back due to rains and water leaks.

Post installation, my car was subjected to heavy pressure wash for almost an hour, and then we left it to see if there was any minute leaks. There was none. I must add that most workshops use only rubber strip in 800s. I however made them apply a bit of sealant around the edges-just the way it is done in the assembly line.

Glass installers doing their job


A body mechanic inspects all hidden corners for moisture/rust/corrosion. I am glad to report that there was none.


Currently, I have sorted all issues of my 800. Hope it stays that way.

Signing out with a picture of my love in the rains- That's BHPian sumitsinha0280 looking at it affectionately.



Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

1. Windshield Leak issue-Fixed My SA and the denter were ready with the rubber weatherstrip and rubber sealant. Post installation, my car was subjected to heavy pressure wash for almost an hour, and then we left it to see if there was any minute leaks. There were none. 2. Currently, I have sorted all issues of my 800. Hope it stays that way. 3. Signing out with a picture of my love in the rains, that's BHPian sumitsinha0280 looking at it affectionately. . Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - my reply is as follows:
1. See, you did the correct thing and it worked. This is the only way!
2. Hopefully yes! .
3. Change the number plates, then see the huge improvement in appearance. The "elegance" of the car will come out!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi

One more suggestion from my side, you may implement if you like. Remove both the number plates, make new ones with Z axis height reduced to 90mm maximum and X axis length only 10mm more on each side from the center to center dimension of the M6*1.0 size mounting fasteners. Go to a hardware shop selling aluminum sliding windows parts and buy 3.5" wide (means 90mm) and 4 or 5mm thick aluminium plates. Get them cut from his aluminium cutting saw, this will give exact 90 degree cuts. Mark, center-punch and carefully drill 1/4" size (means 6.35mm) diameter 2 holes in each of them, de-burr the holes, remove sharp corners and then get the plates white powder coated. Then go to your friendly neighbourhood number-plate-wallah and tell him to paint or sticker the number to the exact font that you like, thicker and squarer font without unnecessary projections will look classier. Remember, DO NOT put black side borders on the number plates. Also, DO NOT put black dots between the series and the numbers, these things completely ruin the clean and classy look. Lastly, buy 4 numbers of M6*1.0*20mm long stainless steel or green passivated allen bolts with an allen key and use these fasteners to mount the number plates. If you don't get stainless steel allen bolts, use the bolts which mount the front wheel bearing grease cup on the front wheel hub of the Tata Sumo, it is M6*1.0 and it is green passivated. The number plates must fit perfectly horizontal.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi Change the number plates, then see the huge improvement in appearance. The "elegance" of the car will come out!

Due to back to back recent issues in my car-Speedo, battery and lately the windshield rubber leak, I had entirely forgotten about the number plate. Thanks for reminding me. Since I had only half a day to implement the idea(shifting to Delhi for a year), I did try to implement your suggestions in the best way I could.

Things I haven't done which you had suggested(Your suggestions in italics)-

1. "....and X axis length only 10mm more on each side from the center to center dimension of the M6*1.0 size mounting fasteners."- While the Z-axis height has been keept to 90mm as recommended, I have increased the X-axis length to a bit more than recommended, because either the numbers were becoming too crowded, or small, both of which could cause issues with the cops here.

2. ".....then get the plates white powder coated"- The powder coating guy was too busy to entertain me for such a small job and was asking me to come after a week. I therefore did a jugaad- Pasted white sheet on it, and wrapped it up with a frosted glass pattern vinyl(also called as etching paper).
This came almost close to the powder coating.

3. "....Lastly, buy 4 numbers of M6*1.0*20mm long stainless steel or green passivated allen bolts with an allen key and use these fasteners to mount the number plates. If you don't get stainless steel allen bolts, use the bolts which mount the front wheel bearing grease cup on the front wheel hub of the Tata Sumo, it is M6*1.0 and it is green passivated."- Couldn't get time to hunt for these, will get it done the next time I come back to Ranchi.

I had set out to make number plates similar to your car.



The day I saw your post, I removed the borders from my existing plates and installed them back.





Must say, they looked way classier now without the extra borders and dashes in between. PS: Have a look at the garage my golden goose gets. Its a 2200 sq ft enclosed area, minus the walls.

Next day, after getting the new plates


Do let me know if you liked them.

Regards,
Shashi

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

I had set out to make number plates similar to your car. The day I saw your post, I removed the borders from my existing plates and installed them back. Must say, they looked way classier now without the extra borders and dashes in between. Regards, Shashi

Dear Shashi - yes, I know that removing the borders gives the classier look. However, the main issue is different. The issue is that for a small car like the 800, the number plate which you have is just too big. There is too much white out there. Also, when you make new plates, reduce the height to width ratio of the letters and the numbers. In other words, have squarish numbers. Then, have slightly thicker numbers. Then, reduce the distance between the letters and the numbers, like between BR and 01 and XX and 5641. Also, don't make the numbers taller than the letters. All of them must have the same dimensions. Also remember that the distance from the start of the number plate to the first letter (B) and the distance from the end of the last number (1) to the end of the number plate should be the same. Ensure that the M6*1.0 size allen bolts do not intrude on the numbers as far as possible. Tighten all bolts so that they appear equally oriented. Whatever I have told you is nothing more than common sense.

My number-plate-wallah in Mumbai is a senior citizen Sardarji. I call him, he tells me to come at a particular time when he does not take other business, when I go to him he gives me a condescending look, he gives me a stool to sit on, he gets me some tea and then he makes my number plate exactly the way I want it.

Whew! I am completely crazy, no? Yes I am, because I firmly believe that you got to be completely crazy to do the perfect job! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shashi - yes, I know that removing the borders gives the classier look. However, the main issue is different. The issue is that for a small car like the 800, the number plate which you have is just too big. There is too much white out there. Also, when you make new plates, reduce the height to width ratio of the letters and the numbers. In other words, have squarish numbers. Then, have slightly thicker numbers. Then, reduce the distance between the letters and the numbers, like between BR and 01 and XX and 5641. Also, don't make the numbers taller than the letters. All of them must have the same dimensions. Also remember that the distance from the start of the number plate to the first letter (B) and the distance from the end of the last number (1) to the end of the number plate should be the same. Ensure that the M6*1.0 size allen bolts do not intrude on the numbers as far as possible. Tighten all bolts so that they appear equally oriented. Whatever I have told you is nothing more than common sense.

Duly noted all points. I will have to go the DIY way to get the perfect results. I am sure I'll be able to handle this.

My number-plate-wallah in Mumbai is a senior citizen Sardarji. I call him, he tells me to come at a particular time when he does not take other business, when I go to him he gives me a condescending look, he gives me a stool to sit on, he gets me some tea and then he makes my number plate exactly the way I want it.

My number plate guy has surrendered and already asked me if I am a parsee, looking at my car and the requirements I gave him.

Whew! I am completely crazy, no? Yes I am, because I firmly believe that you got to be completely crazy to do the perfect job! .

Quoting one of your favourite comments which is deep engraved in my mind- "There is only one way to do a perfect job, and that is the only correct way"

This is one statement which is drastically changing my life for good.

Update- I changed the speedometer glass and front door rubber strip myself today, as the glass had got a few minor scratches over the years, and the rubber strip was changed as the door had lost its new-like thud noise when closing and opening, and was feeling a bit loose.

Posting the images for benefit of BHPians and guest users.

1. Speedometer Glass-This one fits only Pricol make speedometers.


2. Front left and right door rubber strips. Left one has green pins while right one has red.




Since I am temporarily shifting to Delhi for a year for educational purposes, my golden goose will remain unused for that time. So cleaned it today and detailed it to my satisfaction. It took a good 10 hours for all the cleaning and detailing, but it was well worth it. I removed bumpers and all trims for detailed cleaning. Even the wheels were separately removed, cleaned and reinstalled. Enjoy the pics.









Now the year long hibernation starts. The precautions I have taken are
1. Car will be jacked up, and no wheels will be touching the ground
2. All tyre pressures raised to 32PSI(recommended is 27).
3. Battery's negative terminal disconnected.
4. Car has 2 coats of collinite 845 for protection to paint.

Any other point which I am missing??

Regards,
Shashi

[saket77]

Great work there. My advice will be to:
1. Cover exhaust pipe opening.
2. Cover air intake.
3. Keep a rat mesh or any idea that protects your car from rodents.
4. Some suggest to get new engine oil and fresh coolant after a good flush as old oil/ water has contaminations which can degrade internals of the engine.
5. This one is from the manual- remove spark plugs and spray a small amount of oil through the hole into the cylinders. That helps prevent rusting inside. Put the plugs back.
6. Obvious but for a reminder, don't leave the hand brake activated. It will jam by the time you return.
7. Keep the wipers in service position. May save a few hundred bucks for almost no effort.
8. If possible, take out the battery and use it for some other purpose for all this time like on another car/ inverter etc. So that it does not goes into a deep discharge.

All the best and wishes to accomplish your academic targets.
Regards,
Saket.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Any other point which I am missing?

Instead of disconnecting the negative terminal, I'll say disconnect the whole thing and remove it from the engine bay.

Saket has already mentioned most of it.