[jaysmokesleaves]

My Safari at 1 lakh kms.

I own a Safari EX 2.2 4WD. Bought in April 2008, this vehicle is the only vehicle i own. I drive it to the supermarket, mall, to the 7 star dinner, intercity runs, interstate trips which include offroad activity and also join offroad groups with pimped up Cheapsies and Cheeps on the offroad circuit whenever i can find time.

In the entire time ive owned this vehicle, it has never been driven with a pussyfoot. This is how i drive all the vehicles ive owned. Please note: this is not a bragging report, just putting some facts into perspective with regards to my vehicle ownership. For those who know and have seen this Safari being driven, they will appreciate what I have to say about the Safari.

Five and half years later, ive done 1.05 lakh kms. Not much by my mileage standards, but ive not really had time to drive as much as i would want to. Total drive time on the road is about 2.7 years, since my Safari is used only approx 6 months in a year while im in the country between my intermittent overseas travels. This aggregates to about 40k kms per year. This Safari has seen every corner of the country except the North Eastern states which i will travel to, soon.

Coming back to my Safari – Following are some maintenance facts. The entire service history of this Safari, including small nicks and scratches is available with TASS since I never service the vehicle elsewhere.

Warranty replacements: (all the stuff i remember) 2+2 yrs warranty.

• Day 2 of ownership – 750 kms – replaced clutchplate and pressure plate. For some reason, the gears would not slot while I was at a mall parking lot, but 30 mins later everything was fine and i wasn’t stranded. TASS replaced clutch and pressure plate as a preventive measure.
• At approx 25000 kms – engine light diagnosed to one faulty injector and return line faulty and some other fault – TASS replaced the entire fuel system and since they couldn’t remove the stuck injector, they replaced the entire head with all its components and with all new injectors.
  At this time, i requested them to also change piston rings to prevent oil consumption issues in the future. This was refused since their technical team did not agree to my “theory”.
• At approx 35000 kms – observed minor engine oil consumption - replaced oil separator, due to oil consumption.
• At approx 45000 kms – observed increased engine oil consumption and reduced power - replaced turbo, due to oil consumption and power loss problem.
• At approx 60000 kms – engine oil consumption approx 1 liter per 1500kms – TASS diagnosed and opened the engine, replaced all engine components including pistons, rings, sleeves, crankshaft, connecting rods and main bearings, timing belt and mechanism. 1 month downtime.
• At 61k kms – replaced entire wiper motor and assembly – they somehow successfully screwed up the wiper heads while the vehicle was with them for the engine job resulting in the wiper head rotating inside the wiper stalks housing, but wiper blade not moving.
• At approx 70000kms - Replaced entire steering mechanism (full steering except steering wheel)under extended warranty due to excessive under & oversteer.

Paid replacements:

• 2 sets of brake pads one at approx 28k and one at 70k
• 2 clutch and pressure plates other than one warranty replacement. ( im on my third set of clutch plates since purchase) Last set was replaced during the engine job at 60k kms as a preventive measure although there was nothing wrong with it.
• 60 k kms - Replaced all suspension bushes.
• 60 k kms - Replaced front windshield – coconut tree vandalism.
• 70k kms – front drive shaft rubber boots torn - Replaced front drive shaft rubber boots.
• 70 k kms - Brake went almost flat at 70k kms – replaced brake shoes, pads and lower cylinder and the air vaccum tank.
• 90k kms – Lots of offroad activity between 60k & 90k kms - Replaced all suspension bushes again with all ball joints, tierods, central link, etc. All coil springs, struts and shock absorbers are still OE, not yet replaced.
• Im on my third set of tires. First was OE Bridgestone. Second was Yokohama Geolander AT, now its Continental Cross Contact AT.
• At 100000 kms – Ac failed due to gas leakage after 5.5 years of service – replaced entire condenser unit , fully opened and serviced main and overhead ac unit.
• Replaced front window winders due to uneven travel.
• Replaced OE battery with Amaron battery after 4 years.

Insurance repairs:
Front left fender replaced under insurance at 25k kms.
Rear dicky door replaced under insurance - approx 40k kms.
Total downtime in the period of ownership – approx 4 months.

Current vehicle condition:
Vehicle is running stock and in prime condition. No rattles and everything working super slick. It seems have become smoother with age and feels as tight as new.
The urge to upgrade to a more reliable vehicle came upon me many times while i was faced with issues with my vehicle. The sheer frustration was thanks to the TASS. The issues in my Safari were primarily caused by the TASS. Their inability to correctly diagnose and repair, their pathetic service advisors, followed by demotivated technicians and very poor turnaround time that resulted in increased downtime and repeat visits to the TASS.
But as it stands now – I have an almost new vehicle which is 5.10 yrs old with a new engine at 60 k kms. Everytime I crank the engine, it starts at first go and is smoother than it was. The comfort of the drivers seat is supreme.

Likes:
Sturdy vehicle.
Has adequate power for on and offroad situations.
Very good ride quality. Fantastic & robust suspension.
Decent ground clearance. Sufficient to comfortable tackle and travel over any crater ridden ‘road’ in India.
Sufficient space for 4 occupants with their luggage in immaculate comfort.
Mile muncher.
Fuel economy - Current fuel economy is 13kmpl at 120kph and below. 9-10 kpl when driven flat out.

Dislikes:
Poor turning radius.
Poor shoulder and neck support on the seats.
Wind noise at speeds of 120 and above.
Bad ergonomics of the door handles.
Pathetic steering wheel design.
Poor steering aggregates. Tie rods, etc

Am I happy?
Yes – My truck starts with half a crank of the key since the day i bought it. It drives fast enough with relative comfort to take me anywhere I please. Any obscure trail poses no challenge and no second thoughts. The occasional offroader in me is partially satisfied( i wish custom mods were available off the shelf for the safari though, like those for the Fortuner).

Cost of ownership – I don’t know how to calculate cost of ownership in terms that most people do.
I owned the vehicle for 5.10 years, drove 1 lakh kms. In 5.10 years I have spent approx 1 lakh on its maintenance including the insurance payout for the small nicks, excluding tires and oil changes. To me it feels like paisa vasool.
I don’t know how to put a price for the fun ive had minus the downtime.

If I would sell, i will get 5.5 lakhs. Cost of a Fortuner 29 lakhs – 5.5 lakhs = 23.5 lakhs. Would I want to spend that much money ? Would you, if your existing ride worked like a hot knife over butter? I would, If i win a lottery.

I calculate something like this – If i spend 40k per year to maintan this Safari for the next 4 years, thats 1.6 lakhs. After 4 years Im sure there will be a wider choice of vehicles. Currently, the XUV, Rexton, Endeavour, Scorpio, etc are not in my contenders list with the Fortuner, which i feel is too expensive.

What to buy if i decide to change? – Note – ive not said upgrade!
4WD Suv it will be – no Muv, mav, rav, softie muv with ice cream pudding toppings.
For me Mahindra and Tata are no different. The Scorpio has pathetic ride, out it goes. The XUV is as reliable or unreliable as a Tata. Neither have succeeded in making a niggle free product till date. I have 3 friends who are XUV owners who bought it at different periods in its life cycle. They face niggles and part failures. I cant comment on the MASS, but they are not too happy about it either. I wonder how the XUV will be when its 5-6 yrs old. Mahindra doesn’t provide adequate parts support even for the Scorpio. Atleast I can find Safari parts, thankfully ive never had to ever wait for one. In the same price range of approx 12-17 lakhs, there isn’t anything much to choose from. And as an suv, it has to be 4wd with 4L& 4H options for me. So that brings me to the Storme 4wd and Force One. Force one has no service support and isn’t on the consideration list at all. The Storme either. Tata has achieved no praiseworthy engineering feat with the Storme after over 6 yrs of development. The Storme to me looks more like a stop gap arrangement, till their engineers wake up from deep slumber. And no Thar for me. Im very sure i don’t want a Cheep (Cheap jeep with offcenter steering).
Second hand Fortuner – a wonderfully good option for under 15-17 lakhs – but its hard to find a good one. Dealers and sellers are busy fudging odometer readings.

Should I upgrade ?
The Fortuner being high on the upgrade list. However, the thought of spending close to 30 lakhs seems unreal for something that really isn’t anywhere close to premium, except for premium reliability.
Coming to reliability – My Safari has been ultra reliable. Its never left me stranded anywhere. I can say this having travelled to the most obscure places where phone networks are unreachable and nowhere close to a decent TASS facility. Minor niggles apart reliability has never been a question mark for me.
A Fortuner, Pajero, are not worth 28 - 30 lakhs.
I will not buy an Endeavour either. I don’t like it.
Santa Fe and Rexton are softies and surely not in the reckoning. On a personal note, I feel that Mahindra has pulled the perfect con artist stunt on the Indian public with the Rexton. Im not going to explain why I feel nor offer no apologies to those who dont like my statement.
The fuel factor –
By my reckoning in the next 3-4 years, the petrol - diesel price gap will reduce, which might prompt manufacturers to provide petrol suv options. So i will have more choice.
Bought with heart, driven with heart, maintained with heart. So finally my mind says – hold on to your horse, its got a lot more grunt left for a few more years.

What would you do?


Here are some dirty pics – Now my safari looks newer than new after some 3M interior and exterior pampering.

Thanks in advance for reading and contributing your views.

[4x4addict]

Jay, good to see see your feedback after a long hiatus. Unlike majority of Safari's which spend their days going from the apartment to the corporate parking and occational highway trip on the weekends, your's and Tanveer's safari gets put through paces like I do with my SUVs. Not abused, but not pampered either.

I always felt that as a product Tata Safari is great. Unfortunately the boffins at Tata are so busy making Indica ev2 and ev3 etc that they don't do justice to the Safari.

Instead of buying the Scorpio mhawk 4x4, I feel I should have bought the Safari VX 4x4 and I would probably still have the vehicle with me. A lot of my driving is over poor roads and the ride was so horrible that my family/friends refused to travel with me forcing me to sell the Scorpio after 2.5 years of ownership. Anyways, I will refrain from going into the details, so that your thread doesn't get hijacked into the Scorpio VX Safari thread.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Instead of buying the Scorpio mhawk 4x4, I feel I should have bought the Safari VX 4x4 and I would probably still have the vehicle with me.

From Scorpio to Nissan Patrol is a wise upgrade decision anyways.
Cheers.

[V12Doc]

Your views about the safari are exactly same as mine but you have had way more repairs. Mine has run 1,00,000. Rattles somewhat from odd places only when going over big craters at speed otherwise crank in a second when the temperature is 1℃ and runs silky smooth. Bought a new Innova today but still gonna drive the safari more. Fortuner is an excellent car but nothing else to praise about it that reliability and my safari has been equally reliable if not for my off road stunts. Had to replace bushes and stuff at almost the same time as yours and some parts that broke only due to off roading . By the way your front right fender looks misaligned with the bumper in the photos.
Excellent report and safari is a total paisa wasool car. Bought mine for 7.5L and it still sells for 4.5L after 5.5 years, 1L Km and infinite fun. What's a better paisa vasool car than this.

[SmartCat]

The Storme either. Tata has achieved no praiseworthy engineering feat with the Storme after over 6 yrs of development. The Storme to me looks more like a stop gap arrangement, till their engineers wake up from deep slumber.

Can you explain your comments on the Storme? Why does it look like a stop gap arrangement? Isn't there a big difference between the way Safari and Storme drives?

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by V12Doc

Your views about the safari are exactly same as mine but you have had way more repairs.... Bought a new Innova today but still gonna drive the safari more... By the way your front right fender looks misaligned with the bumper in the photos.

The repairs on my truck have been more due to the TASS and poor QC by TML. The right fender is fine, the bonnet was open and the front bumper was misaligned due too a tight approach angle offroad. Got that fixed.
I would never buy an Innova. I just hate the seats on that thing, absolutely no underthigh support. Its a nice spacious van though. It will serve u well for years to come. Cheers on your new ride.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Can you explain your comments on the Storme? Why does it look like a stop gap arrangement? Isn't there a big difference between the way Safari and Storme drives?

To me, how a vehicle drives is not the only parameter that creates a difference. Case in point the Safari and the Storme. Lets say the Safari is the outgoing model and the Storme is the incoming model.. the future atleast, for someone like me who will keep his vehicle for a few years atleast.

Lets get to the technical flaws as I see them, the few deal breakers i know of.

• The 4wd system has had some changes. From what i have got to know is that the sensors sit lower and are a higher risk of being exposed to water and its associated troubles. There are changes in the front free wheeling hubs too and the front drive shaft. I don’t know the details but from the TML insiders i have understood that if the Storme has a problem with the 4wd its a much much bigger expense than the existing Safari.
• Wheel alignment issues carried forward from the Aria. Like the Aria, alignment is done via some screws which is very easy in the Storme chassis but somehow the limits for camber alignment are very limited and cannot be adjusted beyond a point resulting in tire wear. Many Aria’s face this problem and ive met a few Aria owners at the TASS crying foul over this technicality. There is a design flaw which the customer doesn’t realize till he starts seeing uneven tire wear. Then, there’s no one to help him.
• And why have they not managed to move the intercooler higher up? How to make my own road with a busted intercooler?
• Ground clearance has reduced compared to the Safari. The front end intercooler guard sits much lower in the Storme. Not good off the road. Thats like a pot bellied halwai, the first thing to make contact in slush and add more resistance to travel.
• Storme fuel tank capacity has gone down to 55 liters. Safari has a 65 liter tank, Longer range. Reserve capacity is the same on both. I get 13kmpl, you do the math.
• After so many years of so called development , they could not add a 2 din stereo system. Why not?
• Wind noise above 110kph remains, just like the old Safari. Their test drivers were testing with ear plugs i guess. The ear plugs were jolly good.
• Still no adjustable backrest on the second row seats. Why not?
• The fuel filler lid still has issues opening. They still haven't been able to fix that on the Storme. It didn't open on my test drive vehicle and on the 3 Storme’s i saw at the TASS. I was proudly shown how the fuel lid can be opened from within the boot.

All these are few points, I had made a list some time ago.
Well, im not impressed with so many years of man hours that result in a dud. For all the offroad stunt sessions they have done in the roadshows, im not impressed one bit. And the sales speaks for itself.
See, if I was a first time Safari buyer, i would probably bite the bait, but not now. Ive sat on the Tata merry-go-round. The Storme may drive well, but when I go to the TASS and they cant troubleshoot the wheel alignment issue due to a design flaw, what then?

I don’t know how Tata tests their cars in the real world, nor any clue about testing technicalities, but I can assure that after they have finished doing their official testing, they can let me test it and I will give them more to work on.
If I do buy a Tata again, then thats if they can provide a technically sound designed product from day 1 and not year 20.

For now, my truck is chugging along just fine.

[mints21]

Hi Jay, Good to see that you reach the 1,00,000 kilometre mark on your Tata Safari. I appreciate your patience with the machine. Considering the points under the warranty thread, I can perceive that with Tata you need to have something or the other warranty related problem in approximately every 10-15 thousand kilometres that you drive.

I really wonder why Tata has been unable to resolve the issues that plague their vehicles on regular basis. Do they not get proper feedback from the dealers or the owners. The wheel alignment problem of Aria moved on to Strome only reflects that no feedback has been given the due attention it deserves.

I wonder what do they check when the test vehicles are run for months in the name of testing before the actual launch.

[cool_dube]

Thanks for sharing a useful no-nonsense report. I own a Nov-2009 EX 4WD which is used only for outstation trips including some multi-terrain indulgence, definitely not the kind of off-roading indicated in your pics. I have had my share of minor niggles, but nothing even close to your list, probably due to milder/lesser usage - have done only ~40K km over 4+ years. That said, I concur with you on the fact that Safari is an absolute VFM product - a true-blue 4WD SUV with supreme ride comfort and fairly powerful engine at <12L on-road!! I too intend to retain my truck for another 2-3 years based on logic very similar to yours.

BTW, have your considered a well-maintained used Pajero SFX given the kind of off-road jaunts you indulge in? The only drawbacks I can think of are poor economy (~8-9 kmpl) and an engine that runs out of steam over 120 kmph.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by mints21

I can perceive that with Tata you need to have something or the other warranty related problem in approximately every 10-15 thousand kilometres that you drive.

I really wonder why Tata has been unable to resolve the issues that plague their vehicles on regular basis. Do they not get proper feedback from the dealers or the owners. The wheel alignment problem of Aria moved on to Strome only reflects that no feedback has been given the due attention it deserves.
I wonder what do they check when the test vehicles are run for months in the name of testing before the actual launch.

They probably just drive up and down the highways to rake up the testing miles required. I guess their test drivers are ill motivated to actually push the vehicle under test. Add to that sleeping engineers and no QC.

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Well my usage has been close to extreme, but almost all of the repairs have been due to the incompetence of the TASS itself.

BTW, have your considered a well-maintained used Pajero SFX given the kind of off-road jaunts you indulge in? The only drawbacks I can think of are poor economy (~8-9 kmpl) and an engine that runs out of steam over 120 kmph.

My Safari is very well maintained, dont go by the old pics ive posted. And the Safari can handle almost any of these offroad jaunts with aplomb just as the Pajero would. The only plus for the Pajero would be better wading depth than the Safari. Thats where skill comes in. Running out of steam at 120 is not good in todays day and age, and certainly doesnt fit my usage. 8-9 kmpl makes it even worse considering the shrinking gap between diesel and petrol prices. This doesnt make it a mile muncher by any standards, especially if you drive only one car,then the Pajero doesnt cut it. Add to that no service support. That name and legendary status were good 10-15 yrs ago, not any more, not for me.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

And the Safari can handle almost any of these offroad jaunts with aplomb just as the Pajero would. The only plus for the Pajero would be better wading depth than the Safari.

Congratulations on touching the six figure number Mishraji..!!

Welcome to the "Lakhpati" Club..!!
Yup, that, and the cost of spares too is an aspect that puts me off from the SFX. A suspension overhaul apparently costs 40k INR and the other spares too are expensive. A pre owned Fortuner is prolly the only choice in the market today.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

Bought with heart, driven with heart, maintained with heart. So finally my mind says – hold on to your horse, its got a lot more grunt left for a few more years.

Exactly my feelings the three days ago when Hariya (Scorpio CRDe) touched the 100k km mark.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Congratulations on touching the six figure number Mishraji..!!

A pre owned Fortuner is prolly the only choice in the market today.


Exactly my feelings the three days ago when Hariya (Scorpio CRDe) touched the 100k km mark.

Congrats to you too with Hariya. Im sure that first time feeling is ectastic. Its a similar feeling in a Safari. Because of the fact that no one expects it to cross 1lakh kms . Ive been down the lakhpati kms club before too... 2 Landcruiser Prados at 1.8 lakh and 1.2 lakh each. In the Toyota, you never know when you crossed 1lakh kms, there is no feeling to it. One Tata estate partly driven by my dad had 3.5 lakh kms on it when sold and my old Pulsar 180 with 1.5 lakh kms on it still adorns my parking space well covered from dust. and you are right, a preowned TFort is the only option South of 17 lakhs.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Instead of buying the Scorpio mhawk 4x4, I feel I should have bought the Safari VX 4x4 and I would probably still have the vehicle with me. A lot of my driving is over poor roads and the ride was so horrible that my family/friends refused to travel with me forcing me to sell the Scorpio after 2.5 years of ownership. Anyways, I will refrain from going into the details, so that your thread doesn't get hijacked into the Scorpio VX Safari thread.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

The 4wd system has had some changes. From what i have got to know is that the sensors sit lower and are a higher risk of being exposed to water and its associated troubles. There are changes in the front free wheeling hubs too and the front drive shaft. I don’t know the details but from the TML insiders i have understood that if the Storme has a problem with the 4wd its a much much bigger expense than the existing Safari.

• Wheel alignment issues carried forward from the Aria. Like the Aria, alignment is done via some screws which is very easy in the Storme chassis but somehow the limits for camber alignment are very limited and cannot be adjusted beyond a point resulting in tire wear. Many Aria’s face this problem and ive met a few Aria owners at the TASS crying foul over this technicality. There is a design flaw which the customer doesn’t realize till he starts seeing uneven tire wear. Then, there’s no one to help him.
• And why have they not managed to move the intercooler higher up? How to make my own road with a busted intercooler?
• Ground clearance has reduced compared to the Safari. The front end intercooler guard sits much lower in the Storme. Not good off the road. Thats like a pot bellied halwai, the first thing to make contact in slush and add more resistance to travel.
• Storme fuel tank capacity has gone down to 55 liters. Safari has a 65 liter tank, Longer range. Reserve capacity is the same on both. I get 13kmpl, you do the math.

All these are few points, I had made a list some time ago.
Well, im not impressed with so many years of man hours that result in a dud. For all the offroad stunt sessions they have done in the roadshows, im not impressed one bit. And the sales speaks for itself.
See, if I was a first time Safari buyer, i would probably bite the bait, but not now. Ive sat on the Tata merry-go-round. The Storme may drive well, but when I go to the TASS and they cant troubleshoot the wheel alignment issue due to a design flaw, what then?

Hi 4X4 Addict. Would love to know your views after Jay's post.

We just got a 2WD VLX for extended family (on Christmas) but another buy is due. Though, no hurries.

And Jay, thanks for this review

[abhinavsureka]

thats a very detailed report.
I have had the pajero sport for exactly a year now. the service experience has been terrible but its a brilliant machine. 23000kms done and i'm in love with it.
you replaced the ball joints at 90k. last week at a free check up by the new dealer for mitsubishi in indore i was told i need to replace the ball joints at a cost of about 15-17k. also i could see leaked oil on the rear shock absorbers. the differential oil had leaked which they topped up at no cost. In the free check up they corrected a lot of things completely ignored by the earlier dealer ,experience with whom was terrible (another story altogether).

So i'm wondering if its normal for ball joints needing replacement so soon. Brakes will also need replacement soon.
I have been doing a lot of offroading.

Please advise. thanks

[KrishD]

Very well written, crisp summary of your experience. I do believe that you should hang on to the Safari for another couple of years. You have done the hard bit, hanging on for the first 1 lakh km. Owning a vehicle like a Safari is a bit of a high maintenance relationship, but thats what keeps you involved!

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by abhinavsureka

thats a very detailed report.
I have had the pajero sport for exactly a year now. the service experience has been terrible but its a brilliant machine. 23000kms done and i'm in love with it.
you replaced the ball joints at 90k. last week at a free check up by the new dealer for mitsubishi in indore i was told i need to replace the ball joints at a cost of about 15-17k. also i could see leaked oil on the rear shock absorbers. the differential oil had leaked which they topped up at no cost. In the free check up they corrected a lot of things completely ignored by the earlier dealer ,experience with whom was terrible (another story altogether).

So i'm wondering if its normal for ball joints needing replacement so soon. Brakes will also need replacement soon.
I have been doing a lot of offroading.

Please advise. thanks

Its surprising to know that you have to replace ball joints so early. This should not happen, especially on the Mitsubishi sport. If you have been harsh on your suspension while offroading then it is possible that the ball joints can get busted.. by harsh i mean bouncing around at extreme angles at higher speeds offroad. Driving at medium speeds on heavily potholed roads also takes a toll on your suspension. I do offroad a lot too, buy i try to be as gentle on the suspension as possible.

You might want to investigate the differential leak further. Differential oil should not leak no matter how you drive, especially at 23k kms. Brake pad replacements depend on driving style. if you drive fast with a lot of hard braking then expect brake pad replacement every 25-30k kms.

Originally Posted by KrishD

Very well written, crisp summary of your experience. I do believe that you should hang on to the Safari for another couple of years. You have done the hard bit, hanging on for the first 1 lakh km. Owning a vehicle like a Safari is a bit of a high maintenance relationship, but thats what keeps you involved!

I dont like nor intend being 'involved' due to an inefficient TASS. However, I do plan to keep this vehicle for a few more years. Its quite cost effective, rather cheaper, to own now that all the issues have been taken care of.