[manveet]

I'd initially thought of writing a 1-year ownership report. But keeping my low level of satisfaction in perspective, I realised that no matter how hard I tried it would be difficult for me to write an unbiased review.

So below, I have summarized the issues faced with my Mercedes ML350 in the last year or so, am really keen to know if this is just plain bad luck, or there are others in the same boat? Who should I take this up with, and how? What are my options?

Vehicle : Mercedes ML350 CDI
Date of Purchase : 25-12-10
Date of Registration : 04-01-11
Mileage till Date : 10,000 kms approx.

Usage : 80% City (South Delhi), 20% Highway (Delhi-Chandigarh and back)

A photograph from early Jan 2011


Problem 1 : Front windshield cracks on its own while the car is parked in the drive.
This is sometime in the third month of ownership, around the last week of March 2011



Reaction of T&T Motors Service Head : Sir, this is not a manufacturing defect. In fact, it could be because of any of the following reasons .. (a) Extreme Heat (in March end !!!) (b) Pebble hitting the glass (c) etc. Luckily, one of the German MB service Engineers is in the neighborhood and drops in for a quick look. After about a 45 second visual examination declares it to be a very obvious manufacturing defect. A couple of days later the car is picked up by T&T in the morning, windshield replaced and car returned by evening.

Problem 2 : 1 year service due reminder pops up in just 10 months

T&T has no explanation as this is not supposed to happen in end September/ early October on a vehicle that they claim was delivered to them straight from Chakan in the last week of December!! We let the Reminder continue and get it Reset in last week of December during the first service (which as per the dash display, was 2 months overdue!!)

Problem 3 : Air conditioner stops cooling in October.

This is traced to a dirty filter which they clean and cooling is good as new. Again, how the heck does a Mercedes AC filter get clogged in 10 months. Yes, we understand this is India and these are German cars that were not "designed for India".

Is this normal or are we just nit-picking. I am genuinely curious.

Problem 4 : Airmatic Suspension replacement in Oct 2011

Some time in September end the vehicle has developed some irritating rattles so we take to the T&T workshop. They decide to keep it for a day or so. Vehicle is returned informing us that the complete Airmatic suspension has been replaced - no satisfactory explanation given with respect to the cause.

Further rattles still persist which are then traced to some panels in the boot. These are eliminated after some "oiling-shoiling".

It will be worthwhile to mention here that the vehicle in question is a 50L+ "premium SUV" that is driven by only my Dad (60+ in age) and myself. And I am being completely honest when I say that this vehicle has never been taken to the shoulder of a road, let alone off-roading. 90% of city driving is on the roads of South Delhi and the only highway it has seen is the once-in-three-months run to Chandigarh and back.

Problem 5 : Front Tire replacement in mid-Nov-2011

Sometime in October we notice one of the front tires has developed a bubble so take it to T&T so that they can take photographs and send it to Pirelli for examination. The guys at T&T take pictures of the tire without wiping the alloys. Since there were a lot of mud marks on the alloys (that gave the impression that the alloy was damaged) we ask for a second set of pictures to be taken AFTER the wheels were wiped clean. Thereafter we categorically tell them to use the pictures taken after cleaning and they commit to do so.

However, A few days later we receive news from them that Pirelli has declined the replacement. After lots of follow-up they send us the inspection report which clearly shows that the pre-cleaning picture was used.

Here are the pictures of the tire in question so that you guys can take a call on your own. You will notice absolutely no scruffs or cuts on the outer or inner wall.

Outer Wall

Inner Wall


So we pay T&T about 17k (50% of the price they quote for a new tire) and have to give away the damaged tire. We ask them whether they have done the alignment/ balancing - and they say yes, of course we have done it considering that we are installing an new tire and alignment must have been checked when we redid the suspension about a month ago. So we say OK and take delivery.

Problem 6 : Camber Bolt replacement

Immediately after delivery (in which the tire was replaced) we notice that the vehicle is pulling to the left and so accordingly contact the service guys at T&T telling them that this is a new problem post tire installation. We assume this is a balancing issue and double-check with them - this time they tell us that there must have been some misunderstanding - we did not do the alignment but yes balancing was obviously done. But since the First Service was anyways due in about a month, we let it go.

During first service we are informed that the pulling to the left is due to the Camber Bolts which are damaged and need to be replaced. Sir ji mechanical part hai - you must have hit something real hard!!

Now we also own an Accord which will complete 8 years in 2 months but the Camber Bolts and Suspension and everything just works fine. So we don't want to fight about 2 bolts that cost 2500/- bucks so let it be at that. We also ignore the fact they needed to add 150 gms of weight to a tire that was balanced 40 days ago.

To Summarize

When we spent hard-earned money on a Mercedes ML, we were prepared for exorbitant service charges. But what we did not foresee were these kind of quality problems. We thought we could take this car to Leh, now we are having second-thoughts on taking it to Ludhiana.

Is this Normal? What should we do about this? Look forward to your suggestions and some first-hand inputs from fellow Merc owners.

[ajmat]

Problem 1 - A genuine defect - dealer treated you badly
Problem 2 - Service pop up - it all depends how you use the car. Frequent cold starts, short runs means a service needs to be more frequent. The ECU analyses and decides based on the operating conditions of car.
Problem 3 - Cannot comment depends on the type of environment.
Problem 4 - Mercedes seem to have replaced the suspension without a quibble proactively - might have been a quiet recall to correct this. Hona did something similar for the Honda City front struts
Problem 5 - The carcass ply break caused the bubble. it could be an impact or a fault. Reason for the payment was that the tyre was half used. Perhaps being a new car, your contribution should have been lesser.
Problem 6 - Cannot comment - they need to show you the damaged camber bolt to back up what they say

I If I look through this, it is a disappointment that the car may not have been 100% reliable. However, in most cases, Mercedes seem to have directly resolved issues. I think you have a bad or misinformed dealer who has given you a poor experience. Blaming you without evidence leaves a bitter taste.

I might be biased but having driven GL's and seen M classes being used in adverse conditions in Leh, I was quite impressed but remember that an army of MB engineers were sorting out the cars every morning before departure.

[manveet]

Thanks for your response Ajmat.

Problem 2 - Service pop up - it all depends how you use the car. Frequent cold starts, short runs means a service needs to be more frequent. The ECU analyses and decides based on the operating conditions of car.

I differ on this.

This has been discussed and agreed by T&T that in the ML350 there are only 2 types of indications for the first service i.e. (a) odometer based, and (b) time based. Both are reset simultaneously at the plant in Chakan when the car is dispatched from the plant to the dealer.

My Pop-up started with 1 Month due and continued to 2-months overdue until I got the first service done in end December. What is surprising, and what T&T cannot answer (Mercedes intervention is probably needed) that how a car that was delivered to T&T in last week of December (as per their claim) had its odometer Reset 2 months prior to that.

Problem 4 - Mercedes seem to have replaced the suspension without a quibble proactively - might have been a quiet recall to correct this. Hona did something similar for the Honda City front struts

I don't think so because in that case Mercedes would have informed the owners proactively. Especially since we were one of the very early owners of this particular version.

The problem was identified ONLY when I took the car to T&T with complains of rattling.

Problem 5 - The carcass ply break caused the bubble. it could be an impact or a fault. Reason for the payment was that the tyre was half used. Perhaps being a new car, your contribution should have been lesser.

Based on my past experience, benefit of doubt is given to the customer in case of no visible damage to the inner or outer wall. AFAIK, in 99% cases of tire bulge, there is a cut on the inner wall where a "pinch" has occurred causing the carcass ply to break.

In our case, there was absolutely no cut, scrape or scruff.

Problem 6 - Cannot comment - they need to show you the damaged camber bolt to back up what they say

We have them with us and will put up pictures soon.

To give you a perspective of where we are coming from - our cars are parked under wraps 6 days a week as we walk to office. The MB is driven only perhaps 7-8 days a month, and many times just for the sake of driving. City driving is only south Delhi, max to Gurgaon - and road conditions are very good in these parts of the city. Only highway driving has been to Agra, Chandigarh, and a Shimla trip. The car has just clocked 10,000 kms in 13 months.

I have taken the Mercedes to T&T more times in the last year than I have taken my Accord in the last 5 years. And that is a 8 year old car.

I would like you to appreciate that my intent is not to fight with Mercedes or T&T. A lot of problems that we have faced are debatable (suspension, camber bolt, tires, AC filter getting choked, etc.) but if for a second you ASSUME that what we say is correct about the usage pattern, then you will realize the pain and discontentment.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by manveet

So below, I have summarized the issues faced with my Mercedes ML350 in the last year or so, am really keen to know if this is just plain bad luck, or there are others in the same boat? Who should I take this up with, and how? What are my options?

I know the problems that you listed about the car bring down the confidence. But from the report what I decipher is, there is mistake on your part too. You have been letting the dealer escape with stupid excuses and have NOT been aggressive to the extent required. Every time there is a problem, you seem to "let go" of the issue with the solutions offered by the dealer. Could be that you are a soft person or there is lack of time, but it is essential to make the dealer / company understand you have put quite a handful of money on their product and you deserve better CE. Some times you need to be a task master to get things done, especially with lousy dealers.

I suggest that you take some time out, and draft a mail to Mercedes India heads or customer care and narrate the same incidents. I suggest you include the two different pics of the tyre bulges as well and point out the facts. Now you could draft the dealer experiences as a different paragraph / section to highlight that you have NOT been treated like a 50L customer!

Also please let them know that you have aired the thread on t-bhp as well and hope they provide a proper resolution / explanation / future CE for their own reputation sake.

I am sorry if I sound rude, but want to convey my opinion straight and what I mentioned above is precisely what I would do in my case. I know the issues happened are sure a let down, but I guess the car is NOT seriously handicapped for anything. Continue enjoying the car - BUT, I would NOT take a Merc to Leh at any cost, due to various reasons. I would rather take a Scorpio / Safari / Fortuner / Pajero for that.

Edit:: I believe some of the problems caused in the vehicle is due to the negligence from the dealer. I know some of them could be attributed to the manufacturer / vehicle - like the windshield for example. I am looking at a bigger picture than just the problems individually.

[Raosaheb Desai]

Dear manveet,
Its really painful to encounter reliability issues after spending a fortune.

In India there are many who go ga ga over german engineering and give ample excuses about problems faced by customers. The main excuse is INDIAN DRIVING CONDITIONS, if its correct then why you sell your unfit products in India???

[Fullrevs]

A very sad situation for our friend manveet.

I own a BMW 525i (chris bangle design) and she's parked in bangalore. I have owned the car for 4 yrs, it has only clocked 10,000km. I have serviced it no less than 4 times so far. When i first bought the vehicle, the service requirements were for 20,000km and above. Nevertheless, the car started to show signs that the engine oil, brake oil and certain filters needed changes. I can only assume that the car sitting idle cant be too good for it. Here we treat them as luxury cars and they are nothing more than everyday cars abroad.

Another problem is the car's clock and battery keeps fading out and almost every time i drove the car after say a weeks break, i had to set the clock. BMW say that the 525i has a KERS like battery and gets recharged the more it runs. I then instructed the driver to start and keep it running for 10mins every morning.....still no improvement.

I am left assuming that the lubricants started to get rich and thick which is why the car demanded a service. I spoke to the experts and BMW and they just begged me to use the car more often. Which is what is happening now, frequent highway journeys to kerala...trips within the city for example to take my mom to the shops etc. Car battery is fine, clock is fine....lubricant levels seem to be fading at a normal pace.

Another curse are the run-flat tyres. They seem to puncture a lot easier than any other tubeless or tubed tyre. The drawback is that nobody can extract the tyre from the rim except BMW, which is not helpful if your stuck in a town called "Avinashi" (between salem and coimbatore) and you have exhausted the distance prescribed by BMW to be safe to run with a puncture on the run-flats. That remains a problem but all in all Beamer seems to be doing well now.

Manveet - maybe you ought to use the car more frequently to sort out the issues regarding service.

I have to agree with Desai. They claim to be the best cars in the world but they are just nto suited for our Indian conditions. Case in point is manveet's accord. I have a V6 and a CRV and its had no such issues at all.

[RS_DEL]

Manveet please indulge the digression for a moment.

A family member owns a Q7 and drives it to his cottage in Kasauli - way out in the rural areas - SUV territory . Usage experience? Zero issues WRT suspension, tires.

I asked him about service experience. Response was and I quote "Their man comes takes the vehicle and brings it back duly serviced, no complaints of any kind till date, no failures of any major parts".

Both Q7 & ML class Mercs are obviously intended for usage in similar terrains and are similarly priced. The contrast in usage experience cited here for ML versus Q7 usage experience that I have been told about is striking to say the least.

In this context I am reminded of the writings of one of the founder mods @GTO regarding his Merc and one other long term usage review written by another member.

It seems MB quality is at fault rather than our friend landing a lemon.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I know the problems that you listed about the car bring down the confidence. But from the report what I decipher is, there is mistake on your part too. You have been letting the dealer escape with stupid excuses and have NOT been aggressive to the extent required. Every time there is a problem, you seem to "let go" of the issue with the solutions offered by the dealer. Could be that you are a soft person or there is lack of time, but it is essential to make the dealer / company understand you have put quite a handful of money on their product and you deserve better CE. Some times you need to be a task master to get things done, especially with lousy dealers.

Let me assure you that we have taken this up extensively with the dealership and even met the head of service, etc. But after a point one does not want to fight for a few thousand Rs. because end of the day you have to take the car back to them. I have deliberately refrained from dealership bashing because my bigger concern is that of wind-shield, suspension, tire, camber bolt, etc. which are Mercedes related issues.

It just feels plain bad when these problems come up on 60 Lakh "SUV's" driven in South Delhi. And then the company has the cheek to point out "off-roading" capability as a selling point.

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by manveet

And then then Sales guys have the cheek to point out "off-roading" capability as a selling point.

You know what it means: Indian roads are 'off road' enough for these German Soft roaders. I think until and unless the infrastructure and fuel quality improves these Germans will have a 'prime' excuse to blame it on the owner and fuel quality. For every owner (of these expensive Germans) who comes out like you there must be at least 5 suffering silently and coughing up the huge repair bills. I think Germans have learnt from the Indians that it pays to be 'corrupt' in India and get away with it. If these cars aren't meant to be run in less than adequate roads and fuel like ours, then why do they sell it here?

[the VTEC guy]

Originally Posted by manveet

..I differ on this.

This has been discussed and agreed by T&T that in the ML350 there are only 2 types of indications for the first service i.e. (a) odometer based, and (b) time based. Both are reset simultaneously at the plant in Chakan when the car is dispatched from the plant to the dealer.

My Pop-up started with 1 Month due and continued to 2-months overdue until I got the first service done in end December. What is surprising, and what T&T cannot answer (Mercedes intervention is probably needed) that how a car that was delivered to T&T in last week of December (as per their claim) had its odometer Reset 2 months prior to that.

Check the manufacturing date based on the VIN number of your car. There is a thread related to this how to. You will get the exact manufacture date/month.

[Yeldo]

manveet, Sorry to hear about your problems with the ML. I know another owner who sold his ML after less than 10,000km due to the never- ending series of problems. He has multiple Mercedes vehicles, and the dealership really offered him red carpet service (he's a VIP industrialist), but still he calls it an ant- climax to his many decades- long Mercedes ownership.

For my part, I have an unfortunate history of briefly owning the past generation ML, which came in as a parallel import before MBIL launched it as an official CBU import. It was bought from a famous industrial group here in Kerala, who are quite familiar to many Team- BHPians. To be fair, they told me that they were selling it due to the below- par performance, but the lure of a "Mercedes on silts" was too good. But 5 months is all I kept the car. ECU problem, suspension problem, tyre wear, steering noise, paint chipping on a less than 2- year old car, a very costly battery replacement- after all this, I was told by the workshop guys that the ML was US- assembled, and hence "a shame to Mercedes brand" (his words). The car was finally bought by a Mumbai dealer (I think he is on Team BHP) because the ML had by then got itself very bad name in Kerala, and I disclosed everything to all those who came to inspect the car after my advertisement. Even now, there are very few takers for MLs in our state.

Originally Posted by ajmat

Problem 2 - Service pop up - it all depends how you use the car. Frequent cold starts, short runs means a service needs to be more frequent. The ECU analyses and decides based on the operating conditions of car.

You are probably right, but I thought that happened only in ECU/ computers before say, 5 years.

[noopster]

Feel bad for you manveet. Even my humble sub-10 lac VW Vento doesn't muck up a simple thing like a service reminder. I can imagine how annoying that warning beep must have been to put up with for a whole 2 months!

Mercedes Benzes are frighteningly unreliable in India- I doubt I would ever buy one. In your case at least they replaced the defective parts without question, most of the time. But the question is: with your kind of usage, should you have had to face those problems in the first place?

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

.. The car was finally bought by a Mumbai dealer (I think he is on Team BHP) because the ML had by then got itself very bad name in Kerala, and I disclosed everything to all those who came to inspect the car after my advertisement. Even now, there are very few takers for MLs in our state.

Now I understand why do I see very few Mercs compared to BMWs & Audis in Kerala [Cochin mostly] whenever I travel there. When I see a total of 10 BMW+Audis, I hardly see 1 Merc. And they blame others for their dismal sales! Wonderful!

Strange; somewhere I read that ML is Lewis Hamilton's daily ride. Crazy to say the least!

Just want to check, is the error rate high only for ML or it's the same across the Merc product range?

[nanduchitnis]

Sad. When I was in USA, I was informed that "Made in USA " Mercs are the pits. People there pay extra for Made in Germany Mercs.

[Mpower]

Unfortunately its probably more of a norm. Especially Airmatic failures have been happening across the board for several years now.

Its good that MBIL has been diligent in taking care of you but you need to think hard about what you;re gonna do after warranty runs out.

Originally Posted by nanduchitnis

Sad. When I was in USA, I was informed that "Made in USA " Mercs are the pits. People there pay extra for Made in Germany Mercs.

Most of the parts and machinery come from Germany. American workers are merely pushing the buttons to put it in simple terms.

The outcome is bad because of design and not manufacturing.