[Hayek]

Some more news to report. My Superb is about to cross the 31,000 km mark. A couple of trips down to Aamby Valley, and a few down to the suburbs implied that the gap between 30,000 and 31,000 was covered in just 2.5 weeks. The car was fantastic to drive on the super smooth winding roads leading up to Aamby Valley (shows what MH politicians can get done when they want), and super stable on the expressway stretches. I was feeling good that barring the excessive service costs that folks on Team-BHP had ribbed me about, the car had not given any problems in a long time. I felt even better, when my brother in law, who has a 300 HP+ sports sedan in the US, said that the car was good to drive (after trying it on the expressway). The only issue was that the horn was not working properly - it sounded somewhat hoarse, but I had decided to live with it as long as possible.

With about 3000 kms completed since the last service, the oil warning came on, and about 1 litre of Castrol Edge 5W-40 had to be added. So far, all seemed normal. Even fact, almost too good to be true. And that was indeed the case.

I was on my way to office a couple of days ago. When I started the car, I observed something unusual - a vibration on idle when I started the car. However, it stopped as I drove off, and I did not pay heed to it. I was had barely covered a kilometre when I noticed a warning light come on. (for the detail fanatics, the photo was taken a little later, when I reached the Autobahn workshop)



Fortunately, the owners manual was in the car, and a quick perusal revealed that it was the exhaust system warning light. The manual indicated that I could drive the car down to the nearest service centre adopting a "gentle driving style". I called Autobahn Sewri up, and was told to get the car over. On reaching there, I was told this could be because of low oil, or one of the fans not working or a vibration.

Later that day, they called indicating that the "Suction Jet Pump" had failed, and would need to be replaced. I asked if this could be done on a Goodwill Warranty basis, but they said that was not possible. However, they agreed to get the horn repaired on a Goodwill basis (which was a relief since I had been told a new horn costs Rs. 4500+). The next day, the car was ready. Total damages came to about Rs. 8,500 including labour. (Bill below).



After reaching home, I searched the forums and found that @Sahil had undergone the same failure at his third service.

Originally Posted by Sahil

The car went in for its 3 years service with only 24,000kms on the odo. The regular service was done and along with the Mechatronic the Suction Jet Pump was also replaced for Rs.5500 but we had to pay for the latter... they refuse to do that free of cost as the car was out of warranty and as they had already given the major part of the DSG free.

So this does seem to be another recurring problem with the Superb. Lets hope I have no more problems.

[dkaile]

Hmmm. Need to keep a lookout for the Suction Jet Pump. What does it do exactly? Did you go into its details?

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Hmmm. Need to keep a lookout for the Suction Jet Pump. What does it do exactly? Did you go into its details?

The Suction Jet pump seems to connect two parts of the fuel tank. (See this link http://skoda.workshop-manuals.com/oc...dex.php?id=869)

The service adviser told me that there are two fuel gauges and this has something to do with their operation. I tried to understand if this had something to do with the fuel gauge failure I had sometime ago, but was told that it was not the same issue. As you know, I tend not to get into too much detail on these things - do post if your usual meticulous research reveals something more.

[madhurules]

Hi Friends - need some help advice.... Had finally come out of a DQ200 failure which I got replaced a few months ago under goodwill warranty- after 2-3 weeks of effort. Was assuming that all is going to be well - when a new problem cropped up. (I hope this is the right forum to post this request for help)

Was driving on the highway when all of a sudden several sensors lit up with varying warning tones. After the initial moments of complete despair - I realized that the vehicle was still drivable and managed to get it home. However here are the warnings/problems:
1) Speedometer and Odometers not functioning
2) ESP warning (yellow) light on
3) ABS warning (yellow) light on
4) Adaptive Headlights (yellow) light on
5) EPC warning (yellow) light on
6) Fuel gauge fluctuates during turns
7) Fuel consumption could be higher (EPC has put some vehicle in some emergency mode?)

What could this be? I am yet to take it to the dealer. Could this be a result of some speedometer failure? The reason I suspect this is - all functions that depend on knowing the speed of the vehicle seems to be affected -ABS/ESP and especially since the adaptive headlights (that move up after a certain speed) are also affected - something that's not common. Am I right in making such an assumption?

If its the speedometer thats the cause - then what I am looking at? - a loose cable? a bad sensor? fuse for the sensor blowing up? ......... Is this a major expenditure problem?
Would greatly appreciate anyone give me any inputs so I can be better prepared when I visit the dealer.

Or can this be some other issue? Is there a non-Skoda workshop in Chennai that can help me diagnose this problem? Someone who may have the necessary scanners?
Thanks a lot.

Madhu
(Superb 1.8 DSG)

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by madhurules

Was driving on the highway when all of a sudden several sensors lit up with varying warning tones. After the initial moments of complete despair - I realized that the vehicle was still drivable and managed to get it home. However here are the warnings/problems:
1) Speedometer and Odometers not functioning
2) ESP warning (yellow) light on
3) ABS warning (yellow) light on
4) Adaptive Headlights (yellow) light on
5) EPC warning (yellow) light on
6) Fuel gauge fluctuates during turns
7) Fuel consumption could be higher (EPC has put some vehicle in some emergency mode?)

What could this be?

I suspect this is caused by the battery voltage dropping below its normal level. I had the same problem (look earlier in this thread), though in my case, it happened with the car parked, and the car refused to start. For whatever reason, when the battery voltage drops, all sensors fail, instead of the car notifying you that the battery voltage is down. In my case, it happened during the warranty period and the battery was replaced under warranty. Do let me know what the dealer says.

[madhurules]

Thanks Hayek. Battery was just replaced a few months ago. Could it be any water in the sensors? Was raining when this happened
Also allowed the car to dry for a couple of days and still the same lights.
Planning to take it to Gurudev tomorrow. Will update.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by madhurules

Battery was just replaced a few months ago. Could it be any water in the sensors? ...Planning to take it to Gurudev tomorrow. Will update.

@madhu, do you have any update on what caused the problems on your car? Your inputs would be appreciated.

BTW, another friend of mine had his Superb 1.8TSi's mechatronics conk out. His car was a June or July 2011 model, and the mechatronics failed in early August. It took 15 days for the car to be repaired. The service adviser initially quoted a Rs. 1 l + price, but ultimately did it under "goodwill warranty."

The only cause for concern is that this is a relatively new car, produced after the so called redesigned mechatronics were introduced, unless I am mistaken. So that does raise the question of whether we will see another wave of failures of the replaced mechatronics over the next 12-18 months.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by Hayek

@madhu, do you have any update on what caused the problems on your car? Your inputs would be appreciated.

BTW, another friend of mine had his Superb 1.8TSi's mechatronics conk out. His car was a June or July 2011 model, and the mechatronics failed in early So that does raise the question of whether we will see another wave of failures of the replaced mechatronics over the next 12-18 months.

It looks like your friend had not opted for the extended warranty option or am I missing something here?

If my understanding is correct, was this a deliberate choice based on reports of improvements in this version of the DSG gearbox or he did not feel the extended warranty was worth the bother?

[F150]

Originally Posted by Hayek

The Suction Jet pump seems to connect two parts of the fuel tank. (See this link http://skoda.workshop-manuals.com/oc...dex.php?id=869)

The service adviser told me that there are two fuel gauges and this has something to do with their operation. I tried to understand if this had something to do with the fuel gauge failure I had sometime ago, but was told that it was not the same issue. As you know, I tend not to get into too much detail on these things - do post if your usual meticulous research reveals something more.

After going thru the manual, this is an unnecessary design by SKODA. Apparently this suction pump, pulls the fuel from one side of the fuel tank to the other.

The version of the fuel tank requires that the fuel is pumped from the area of the fuel gauge sender 2 -G169- with a suction jet pump to the fuel delivery unit.

If the fuel tank design was flat, the need for a pump was eliminated.

The pump shouldn't fail, if the design specifications were correct.

First - Poor design that needs a pump
Second - Pump fails
Three - Customer pays for it.

Simply Clever.

Hayek,

I think they should have replaced it under good will warranty. The pump is definitely not wear and tear part, where the customer's driving style has impacted the life of the part.

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

It looks like your friend had not opted for the extended warranty option or am I missing something here?

Sorry for the delayed reply. My friend's car is company owned, and hence he had to take his insurance through his company - did not get the choice to opt for Skoda Shield. They don't sell the extended warranty separately.

Originally Posted by F150

First - Poor design that needs a pump Second - Pump fails Three - Customer pays for it. Simply Clever. Hayek, I think they should have replaced it under good will warranty. The pump is definitely not wear and tear part.

Come on. This is Skoda. People like me who are stupid enough to buy their cars deserve what we get. Why am I so bitter? Obvious! More problems to report.

'Twas the day before Diwali (ok 'twas Dhanteras if you prefer). I started my car for work, looking forward to a short day there, and a brief vacation after that. I had covered barely 500 metres when the infamous Exhaust system warning light and another light marked EPC came on. I returned home promptly and went to work in my other car. I set up an appointment with the service centre for the following Wednesday. After some checks, the service advisor got back and indicated that an ignition coil had failed. Replacement cost - Rs. 5000 per coil + up to Rs. 20,000 for some wiring depending on what needs to be done.

I flipped. I put in a goodwill warranty request, both to the dealer and Skoda. I promptly got a mail from Skoda saying they were looking into it, and that someone would respond shortly. I followed up with the dealer on Friday evening. I was told the concerned people at Skoda were on leave till the following Tuesday for Diwali. Cut to Wednesday afternoon. The dealer still had not heard anything. The Skoda helpline was completely unhelpful, unwilling to offer more than, "The warranty department is looking into it". They were also unwilling to provide any kind of escalation matrix or even email addresses of seniors. An email sent to customer care asking for senior attention was not even acknowledged. More frustration followed with stonewalling at both the dealer and Skoda till Friday night. Finally, on Friday night, I was told they had turned down my claim, as "electrical parts are not covered by goodwill warranty." I was left with no choice but to get the car repaired. Fortunately, they got the car going again for less than Rs. 9,000. I hope that they have not done a slipshod job that leads to more problems.

Engine failures at less than 32,500 kms. What next?

Clearly, the so called customer oriented approach of Mr. Sudhir Rao is an eyewash. Did not see any evidence of it from the company. In fact, the Service Advisor at the much maligned dealer was far more courteous than the company's customer care folks.

People talk as if VW / Skoda make great cars that are let down by poor dealers. But I am beginning to think that the problem is not at the dealer end, it is with the company. The cars that Skoda makes break down too often - I have had 7 break downs (dead battery, failed coolant pump, failed fuel gauge, failed mechatronics, failed horn, failed suction jet pump and failed ignition coil) so far, of which only the horn did not disable the car. Given that there were next to no problems in the first 18 months, and my car is 42 months old, that is an average of a problem every 3.5 months after the first 18. If this is typical, the service centres and support lines are clearly being overwhelmed.

I started this thread saying Skoda Superb So Far. But I have now reached the stage where I have thrown in the towel. Clearly buying the Superb has turned out to be a gamble gone wrong. I have to live with it, unfortunately - can't afford another car for the next 3 years at least. (Unless maintenance costs start to exceed depreciation). But the joy has gone out of my ownership experience.

This thread shall live on, but not as a joyful celebration of a car I love - but as a cautionary tale for those considering this brand.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I have had 7 break downs (dead battery, failed coolant pump, failed fuel gauge, failed mechatronics, failed horn, failed suction jet pump and failed ignition coil) so far, of which only the horn did not disable the car.

Really really sad Hayek!! Your experience with Skoda really says something of the brand. That a loyal customer is now turning hostile due to the product and company's approach to solving them is something that Skoda should think deep and hard, otherwise it's bye bye time soon. I am keeping my fingers crossed as to what all will I have to face with my Superb after my honeymoon period comes to an end. Its nearly at 14k kms and one and a half year old with zero issues so far but I don't know how long will it last that way especially seeing your experience... Pray for me too.

[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Come on. This is Skoda. People like me who are stupid enough to buy their cars deserve what we get. Why am I so bitter? Obvious! More problems to report.

Dear Hayek,

I just went through your thread, and firstly, I really appreciate your approach to remain neutral and honest in your opinions.

So, I have had and do own german cars (specifically VAG group) in my home. I have had the pleasure of owning 2 skoda's in the past. However, I have been relatively lucky as far as the servicing has been concerned, even when the skoda as a brand was declining. Currently have a VW at home along with one of the german trio.

So, I as an individual definitely love the german cars, but at the same time I have come to realize that to truly enjoy german car ownership in India, one must handle the servicing in a different way. Let me try and elucidate:

As per me, as of today, the german auto manufacturers face 2 problems:
1. Dealer's who are willing to invest in infrastructure to match their standards.
2. Trained personnel.

The first point will improve with time. The second point is something which I do not see any improvements in, even in the foreseeable future.

To truly enjoy german car ownership in India, this is what I follow:
- Till the car is in warranty, I get all my servicing needs attended to by the company dealers.
- One year post that, i.e. when the warranty becomes void, I still get the servicing done by the dealer since, most german brands do still fulfill their warranty claims under goodwill warranty (BUT only say 1-2 claims per customer; nothing beyond that).
- Post this, I get the car serviced for all the niggles (brakes, suspension, electric tantrums etc.) outside. I get the normal services done by the A.S.S. only (but this is more to retain the resale value than anything else... you can get the routine service done outside if you intend to keep the car long term or sell it to known people)

I have followed this approach since the days of opel (our first european car), through our days of skoda, and also for the germans in my home till date.

As you can see, this kind of approach is only feasible if you are living in a big city; and you are right as well.

As a ex-skoda owner, I can tell you some things. The VAG cars are generally reliable, but are costly to maintain once they are out of warranty. This has more to do with their parts being imported, than anything else. Electrical gremlins are not the norm, and in most instances are small and easy to fix. Their mechanical components are reliable (not toyota reliable, but reliable enough).

From your experience, I can see, that you have had bad luck with the car. You are definitely justified on being angry with the company, and I would have harboured the same feelings if I were you.

What, I personally feel is, if you are ok, try out a good independent garage to attend to your needs. Bombay does have quite a few good independent garages, and spares for skoda are not an issue as such. Your car ownership experience will be transformed once your car comes into a competent mechanics hands. Give it a try if you can. Your car is anyways out of warranty now.

Let's face it; as of now how things stand, I don't see any major improvement in service levels from any car manufacturers (be it german/japanese/korean). This forum as such has a very negative sentiment when it comes to german cars. I do not and have never really prescribed to general view, since the other manufacturers play the game in the same way (even if you had a honda or toyota, and god forbid a part were to fail; you would have found yourself in the same situation.... I speak from my own personal experience of getting a lot of car's serviced. It's just that parts on japanese cars are time tested since generations, so they don't fail... but then these cars rarely excite the enthusiast in me).

If you are willing and want to enjoy the car (atleast till you sell it), try and find out a good and trusted garage in your neighbourhood, and just see the difference. However, I would like to emphasize on GOOD and TRUSTWORTHY here.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your time with the car. The superb is one of the few cars in India which I personally love, and would have gladly bought one, but for my requirements.

Thanks,
Simple_car

P.S.: If you are wondering as to why I sold the skoda's if I was happy.. well one of them was a total loss in the july floods of '05, and the other one was a company car which I let go when our company was sold. Post that, my family required a SUV-ish car for the ground clearance, and the yeti didn't find acceptance with my family, so I had to change to a different brand.

Originally Posted by dkaile

Really really sad Hayek!! Your experience with Skoda really says something of the brand. That a loyal customer is now turning hostile due to the product and company's approach to solving them is something that Skoda should think deep and hard, otherwise it's bye bye time soon. I am keeping my fingers crossed as to what all will I have to face with my Superb after my honeymoon period comes to an end. Its nearly at 14k kms and one and a half year old with zero issues so far but I don't know how long will it last that way especially seeing your experience... Pray for me too.

Well, I don't know about Hayek, but I for one will . As I have mentioned above, skoda's are generally reliable machines, and I think Hayek just happens to have bad luck with his. I have gone through your thread, and I definitely admire your approach w.r.t. maintaining your superb. Enjoy the car, and don't let worries hinder your experience with these fine machines.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Really really sad Hayek... I am keeping my fingers crossed as to what all will I have to face with my Superb after my honeymoon period comes to an end... Pray for me too.

I certainly will do that. Hope you don't have as many problems as I have faced.

Originally Posted by Simple_car

I have come to realize that to truly enjoy german car ownership in India, one must handle the servicing in a different way.... when the warranty becomes void, I still get the servicing done by the dealer since, most german brands do still fulfill their warranty claims under goodwill. Post this, I get the car serviced for all the niggles (brakes, suspension, electric tantrums etc.) outside. I personally feel is, if you are ok, try out a good independent garage to attend to your needs. Bombay does have quite a few good independent garages. Simple_car

Thanks for the advice and detailed post . Will consider this. If you know a good independent in the South / Central Bombay, would appreciate your suggestion.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Some more news to report. My Superb is about to cross the 31,000 km mark.

Sorry to hear about the latest developments, Hayek.

Complex Europeans start showing their true colours once past the 30 - 40K kms mark. My C220 was blemish-free till 30,000 kms. It was all downhill from there onward. Know of several other Mercs & BMWs that suffered the same horrors after the honeymoon period was over.

Unfortunately, we get locked in. Once the money is paid and the car is home, the depreciation is too high to ignore. Suggest you start looking out for a good independent. Ask Moralfiber, he might be able to make a recommendation or two from Pune. An independent shop will work out substantially cheaper (in some cases, 25% of the cost).

I hope the worst is behind you, and the Superb performs with acceptable reliability in the 3 years you intend to retain it.

[Safeer]

@ Hayek : Sorry to hear about the excitement dying off on your Superb. Hope the bad times are behind your back, and enjoy the drives.

@ Simple_car : Thanks for the positive reinforcement of Skoda cars. I took the plunge of buying a preowned low run Laura 1.9 DSG (even after reading the horror stories in t-bhp) and keeping fingers crossed. I had an Octy earlier (again preowned) and always used to give to SASS only. Didn't have much issues with the Octy. I keep shuttling between Bangalore and Trivandrum. Do not know of any good independent expert Skoda mechanics in both the places. Any information from fellow t-bhpians regarding this, would be appreciated.