[reddream]

Hello everyone,

I don't know how I never got to know about this site, that is till now. Maybe I got confused with X bhp and this, anyway I am here now.

My name is Prithvi, I am from Bangalore. Performance was always in my mind from when I was a kid. From my first scooter I started making it go faster ( Kine ) and then moved on to the Shogun and then the RD350 ( I still have this bike ) and then upgraded it to a Unicorn. Sounds funny upgrading a RD350 with a Unicorn, but my requirement was different, I wanted a tank of fuel to last a day and wanted to ride hard the whole day without heating issues and timing issues. I wanted to put atleast 100 laps a day on the track. So all these days I was stuck up with bikes, mostly preparing me and the bike for the track.

I learnt a few things on bikes, that I get a thrill only when I am riding at the limit and this limit is dangerous, because you never know when you are riding above your skill, and that is when you fall. Sometimes you get up and laugh, but then thinking that you might not be luckly always scared me. Tried riding slow but the thrill which I loved most was not there.

I happened to just try the FISME at Kari and it was a beautiful experience, the 'S' which I loved in the bike was superb in the car, I could just attack it at 120 % of my skill and come out laughing out of the turn, sometimes I would have spinned it or sometimes caught a big oversteer, anyhow it was just pure fun. To be honest when the fear / pain factor of bikes went out it was different the track and I think I liked it better than the bike ( but I miss riding bikes big time ).

I have been driving cars from when I was in class 8. Mostly my parents, a Maruthi 800, Esteem ( first time I felt the torque kicking in 3rd gear, was a fantastic feeling in 1995 ), Accent ( the torque and refinement was at a different level 2000 ), Sonata ( felt what the chassis means while taking turn at 140kmph, 2003 ). I personally drive a Santro ( since a year, after getting scared of bikes ).

I was rash with the car in the turns, tire screaming and I was just losing so much of traction. I took the same approach as bikes, start from the beggining from the basics, so I started learning performance driving by getting up early in the morning and going in circles in a ground trying to control understeer. So on...

Got myself a driving simulator ( GTR2 with momo steering ) and started putting in lap after lap in a Lotus Elise just to understand car handling. Got myself some performance driving books, reading 1 chapter and slowly trying it for a month and then moving on. I am currently working on tire slip and taking turns with least steering input and without the tire screeching. That is me now.

It is becoming a huge post, let me stop here. Yes, I recently got married and I had taken my brother's Fiesta Sxi to Ooty and one of the roads Ooty to Metrupaliyam through Kotagiri was just amazing. We started early 7ish and I made sure I stayed in my lane and was taking turns fast. What a difference the car was compared to my Santro, I was on top of the world, catching those oversteers.

Now, I have been showing my brother how to drive a Fiesta and I dont want to push luck on our roads late in the night, I want to actively join the ones who hit the track. Also for all the learning of mechanics, driving, cars, etc.

Sorry, long post, couldnt stop myself.

Best Wishes,
Prithvi

[Nitin]

Nice intro there,Prithvi.
Welcome aboard! Pretty sure you'll have a fun time being here amongst 18K car/bike enthusiasts.

Drive safe!

[jaibir]

Welcome aboard Prithvi! I'm sure you're going to find some like minded people here and have some fun.

[Sam Kapasi]

Wow - there's the intro of a truly car crazy man. Welcome to Team-BHP.

[sanjayatarizona]

Welcome to the club Prithvi, espcially to the elite club wherein you do crazy stuff with cars just because you don't have the guts to do it on 2 wheels anymore. I have 22 stiches to prove it and have switched to the safer club myself..

4 wheels are safer than 2--- Newton 2 AD.

Enjoy the ride.

[rks]

Originally Posted by reddream

Yes, I recently got married and I had taken my brother's Fiesta Sxi to Ooty and one of the roads Ooty to Metrupaliyam through Kotagiri was just amazing. We started early 7ish and I made sure I stayed in my lane and was taking turns fast. What a difference the car was compared to my Santro, I was on top of the world, catching those oversteers.

As far as I know, the Fiesta Sxi is a front wheel drive (FWD). I assume you are talking about the 1.6 lit model. Generally FWD's should not oversteer, as they are designed to understeer before oversteer can happen. Don't know if you really mean oversteer in the technical sense. If so, possibly there was something wrong with the car you drove (e.g. good front tyres, relatively bald rear ones); or else your speed was excessive. I sincerely advise you to be careful, especially since you are married.

Don't underestimate the Santro. If you have the correct wheels/tyres and a well-maintained Santro, it can take corners very fast. My Santro never oversteers upon hard cornering. The exception may be on bumpy roads when the rear of the Santro will be skittish, especially on stock wheels/tyres; mine has wider alloy wheels and grippy tubeless tyres. The only limitation that prevents me from ripping my Santro through corners nowadays is that the steering column eventually starts to make the dreaded "kat-kat" sound and will need frequent maintenance. The steering components seem to be the weakest link, at least in the old Santro.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by rks

I sincerely advise you to be careful, especially since you are married.

Sir I am not married and I value my life equally

[rks]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Sir I am not married and I value my life equally

Of course, we all value our lives irrespective of marital status. What I intended to convey was that being a married man gives you all the more reason to be careful. You don't want to let down somebody else because of carelessness or over-enthusiasm.

[Jaggu]

welcome Prithvi. Another RD fan, so double welcome

[reddream]

Thanks everyone for the very warm welcome.

Regarding the handling Santro vs Fiesta, in a Santro it is difficult for me to find the right amount of turn in slow corners, whatever I do the car just understeers or excessive body roll ( thinking of putting the Koni suspension soon ), on very fast turns with perfect steering input the Santro feels fast with neutral steering ( maybe I havent pushed harder to see what happens after that point ).

On the Fiesta most turns ( except very slow ones ) give a neutral steering, but if you want a oversteer all you have to do is be a more aggressive in the entry ( more steer and some more throttle ) and the tail steps out.

I want to make my Santro handle like the Fiesta, especially the resposive and talkative steering. After driving the Fiesta, I found the Santro just not telling me what it is doing in the turns ( compare it to a fast bike suddenly switching off ignition in the turn ).

Anyway, long way to go.. learning is fun than going and buying a fast car and not knowing what went into it to make it feel that way.

[rks]

Originally Posted by reddream

Regarding the handling Santro vs Fiesta, in a Santro it is difficult for me to find the right amount of turn in slow corners, whatever I do the car just understeers or excessive body roll ( thinking of putting the Koni suspension soon ), on very fast turns with perfect steering input the Santro feels fast with neutral steering ( maybe I havent pushed harder to see what happens after that point ).

My experience is that the Santro's power steering is "light, quick and accurate and you can steer the tall boy into corners with confidence" (to quote a review from the Hindu). I do not find any problem at slow speeds. The body roll that you are talking about is minimal and maybe I just got used to it. Then again, not having driven the Fiesta, I am not in a position to comment on your comparison.

On the Fiesta most turns ( except very slow ones ) give a neutral steering, but if you want a oversteer all you have to do is be a more aggressive in the entry ( more steer and some more throttle ) and the tail steps out.

And from a previous post:

Yes, I recently got married and I had taken my brother's Fiesta Sxi to Ooty and one of the roads Ooty to Metrupaliyam through Kotagiri was just amazing. We started early 7ish and I made sure I stayed in my lane and was taking turns fast. What a difference the car was compared to my Santro, I was on top of the world, catching those oversteers.

These quotes set off warning bells in my head. The kind of driving you mention in the first quote is far too dangerous to be tried out on the steep descent from Ooty to Mettuppalayam or for that matter on any ghat roads used by the public. You should only do such driving in controlled conditions, e.g. on a track. Remember that oversteer is difficult to control even for experts. Especially in a FWD, if you make a wrong move with the opposite lock (e.g. if you apply it and accelerate too enthusiastically) you could find yourself heading down the ghats the wrong way.

I appreciate your interest and enthusiasm, and I am sure you are a very capable driver. But I am only doing my duty in warning you that there is a very thin line between being enthusiastic and over-ambitious. From what I have read so far, it seems to me that you are right on the edge here.

[TDR]

Welcome! About this oversteer in a Ford Fiesta... I can vouch that it is
definately present in the (1989-1997) MKIII! A friend and I almost
crashed... not something I want to expierience, ever, again.

It was in the German Eiffel. We thought it to be fun taking corners
with lot's of speed & oversteer. Well, it was great fun until, in one
corner, the car spinned out of control. Furtunately for us, the car
stopped just 30 centimetres off the concrete sidewall of the road.
So... no "oversteering" for me on a public road...

A mild understeer is much safer, imho..

TDR

[rks]

Originally Posted by TDR

Welcome! About this oversteer in a Ford Fiesta... I can vouch that it is
definately present in the (1989-1997) MKIII! A friend and I almost
crashed... not something I want to expierience, ever, again.
[...]
So... no "oversteering" for me on a public road...

A mild understeer is much safer, imho..

I agree and you made a sensible decision. Oversteer is always difficult to handle. In a FWD it is particularly problematic because the counter-steer and acceleration required to control oversteer can also cause the car to go the other way and even lead to fishtailing and/or a complete spin if you are not careful.

[Technocrat]

Thats one nice intro post.

Welcome to T-Bhp RedDream

[1100D]

Originally Posted by reddream

Got myself a driving simulator ( GTR2 with momo steering ) and started putting in lap after lap in a Lotus Elise just to understand car handling.

How much do I relate to this. But on my end the game is Richard Burns/Colin McRAE (I like the former more).I use the Logitech G-25 (with the shifter).