[Amsdoc]

Looking at Hamilton's qualifying lap in yesterdays wet Styrian GP brought on goose bumps. There is something special about seeing a car and driver in perfect harmony driving on the edge of limit, sometimes beyond, which draws people to motorsport. Drivers have become from being considered good to great on basis of some wet drives. Example is the great Ayrton Senna.

So which is the best wet drive you have seen. I don't think quali should count as it is just one lap.

I remember some stonkers:
1) Schumacher in 1996 Spanish GP

2) Verstappen at Inerlagos, Brazil 2016

3) Hamilton at Silverstone in 2008

4) Senna Estoril 1985 (Ive seen a video of this masterclass)

Any other you remember? May be we could do a poll once we get enough contenders

[ds.raikkonen]

Both HAM and VER are very good in wet conditions. It was just a question of better set up, which HAM had on his Mercedes. Given the same car, I would say VER would beat HAM. Though I take nothing away from HAM, that was an epic lap and well managed race, simply disappeared into the horizon!

Noteworthy wet weather drives (apart from the ones mentioned above) which I can recall:
a) SEN at the Monaco GP in '84 and '88? (caught Prost in an inferior car in '84, obliterated the competition in '88)
b) MSC at the Chinese GP 2006 (overtook a fast Alonso-Michelin-Renault package to win)
c) RAI at the Chinese GP 2007 (overtook HAM on intermediates to win)
d) HAM at the British GP in 2008 and 2016 (mastered really wet conditions to win)
e) BUT at the Canadian GP 2011 (last lap win, came back from P21)
f) BUT at the Hungarian GP 2006 (though inherited the lead after pole sitter RAI had mech issues and Alonso spun off, drove well in the Honda on inferior Bridgestones)

[akshay380]

I'll say Senna was absolute master of rain. I had the good fortune of getting access to older archive full race videos and Senna at Estoril 85, Donnington 93 were absolutely crazy. In our era, I'll say Hamilton from 2008 and Verstappen in 2016 were amazing as well.

[ChiragM]

Originally Posted by Amsdoc

Any other you remember? May be we could do a poll once we get enough contenders

How could you forget Senna in Donington 1993. Overtaking so many cars on the first lap. It could be one of the greatest laps in F1. Max's drive in Brazil 2016 is one of my favourites, and also Button's victory at the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix.

Let's include some videos as well.

Here's Senna at Donington 1993:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOEorrE4mY

Button at the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Iaz1-8VC0

Schumacher in 1996 Spanish GP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG5S8T-iwUg

Verstappen at Inerlagos, Brazil 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO3q69x2sXA

Hamilton at Silverstone in 2008:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWvyv06zr54

Senna Estoril 1985:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRIOKRHhOto

[Samir Taheer]

Originally Posted by Amsdoc

Looking at Hamilton's qualifying lap in yesterdays wet Styrian GP brought on goose bumps. There is something special about seeing a car and driver in perfect harmony driving on the edge of limit, sometimes beyond, which draws people to motorsport. Drivers have become from being considered good to great on basis of some wet drives.

Hamilton's lap, indeed was really good - The fact that he went faster, when other's were just starting to struggle with the water on the track, means alot IMO!

[Amsdoc]

Oh yes, how could I forget the Donnigton lap ! Some super drives there guys. TFS!

[Newpunter]

I would like to propose Schumi's drive on slick tyres in the wet at Spa 1995. He kept Damon Hill, who was on wet tyres and 6 seconds faster, behind him for a long time with his defensive driving. Although his tactics were a little questionable, it was an incredible feat driving on slick tyres in the rain, while everyone else was on wet tyres.

[bosem123]

Originally Posted by Amsdoc

Looking at Hamilton's qualifying lap in yesterdays wet Styrian GP brought on goose bumps. There is something special about seeing a car and driver in perfect harmony driving on the edge of limit, sometimes beyond, which draws people to motorsport. Drivers have become from being considered good to great on basis of some wet drives. Example is the great Ayrton Senna.

So which is the best wet drive you have seen. I don't think quali should count as it is just one lap.

I remember some stonkers:
1) Schumacher in 1996 Spanish GP

2) Verstappen at Inerlagos, Brazil 2016

3) Hamilton at Silverstone in 2008

4) Senna Estoril 1985 (Ive seen a video of this masterclass)

Any other you remember? May be we could do a poll once we get enough contenders

I had been following Formula 1 from childhood, so much so that it had almost become a possible career option for me (must have happened to many here, I'm sure). I was pretty small but Ayrton Senna had been my favorite driver for a number of years. Out of the two international celeb I was saddest about for having died, Senna was one (Michael Jackson being the other)

[1LR-GUE]

I agree with everybody's comment here.

But I would like to add my top 2 favourite drives in wet and changing conditions

1. Sebastian Vettel's 2008 Italian Grand prix
2. Sergio Perez's 2012 Malaysian Grand prix


These two drives are VERY SPECIAL according to me because they were done in underdog teams - Toro Rosso and Sauber (teams loved by every F1 fan) by two non champion drivers(Vettel was not a champion at that time).

[myavu]

Originally Posted by ds.raikkonen

It was just a question of better set up, which HAM had on his Mercedes. Given the same car, I would say VER would beat HAM.

No, I don't agree. Hope you watched Merc's debrief after the race. They clearly mentioned that Lewis' car was set for dry Sunday race and was not a wet setup. As per parc ferme rule you can't change the setup from Saturday to Sunday. It was a clinical drive by LH. And this same car theory is just a ifs and buts. The car at Max's disposal was more than capable to beat LH in wets. But for that you have to keep your car from skidding and sliding on the track first. Yes Max is evolving and one day he will be at the top.

[Amsdoc]

Originally Posted by bosem123

I had been following Formula 1 from childhood, so much so that it had almost become a possible career option for me (must have happened to many here, I'm sure). I was pretty small but Ayrton Senna had been my favorite driver for a number of years. Out of the two international celeb I was saddest about for having died, Senna was one (Michael Jackson being the other)

Same here. Though, I didn't get to watch too much of Senna live. He died the year after I properly started watching F1. I have seen many recordings though. He was absolutely a beast and did have a nasty streak (I think it is essential to have this to win the drivers championship). The 1st corner shunt on Prost was totally intentional. One of the best wet weather drivers though!

[ds.raikkonen]

Originally Posted by myavu

No, I don't agree. Hope you watched Merc's debrief after the race. They clearly mentioned that Lewis' car was set for dry Sunday race and was not a wet setup. As per parc ferme rule you can't change the setup from Saturday to Sunday. It was a clinical drive by LH. And this same car theory is just a ifs and buts. The car at Max's disposal was more than capable to beat LH in wets. But for that you have to keep your car from skidding and sliding on the track first. Yes Max is evolving and one day he will be at the top.

Yes I understand parc ferme rules and the fact that they can't change set up. What I meant was that the Mercedes W11 is a far better overall package than the RB16 in any condition. The drivability of the Renault engine is not great, as both Max and Alex demonstrated by spinning off at T1 in practice sessions. Whereas Lewis and Valteri had incredible confidence on all the corners (in a car which is inherently under steery to suit Lewis's style I might add).

I think the speed trap figures in major corners and the corner exit speeds of the W11 were easily 10-15 km/h better than the RB16, check out the attached lap comparison screenshots. If you notice the entry into heavy braking corners, the Red Bull is far more pointy than the Mercedes and has massive front end grip, but the traction gained by the Mercedes out of corners is way ahead of Red Bull.

Speed after exiting T1 by the end of the sausage kerb:
Hamilton: 194 km/h
Verstappen: 181 km/h

Braking into T4:
Hamilton: 318 km/h
Verstappen: 306 km/h

I take nothing away from Lewis, I did mention that was a clinical performance. But I do maintain my point that Max can do much more, just a gut feeling, will be validated if Red Bull get Mercedes engine of Max ends up in Mercedes! I just hope he mounts some sort of title offensive to make this season interesting.

[myavu]

Originally Posted by ds.raikkonen

What I meant was that the Mercedes W11 is a far better overall package than the RB16 in any condition. The drivability of the Renault engine is not great, as both Max and Alex demonstrated by spinning off at T1 in practice sessions. Whereas Lewis and Valteri had incredible confidence on all the corners (in a car which is inherently under steery to suit Lewis's style I might add).

AFAIK Redbulls are powered by Honda Engines and there is no driveability issues as such. They are almost derivable as Mercs. The speed trap difference is down to a driver's confidence than anything in wet condition that too when rain is intensifying and track has numerous puddles.

[ds.raikkonen]

Originally Posted by myavu

AFAIK Redbulls are powered by Honda Engines and there is no driveability issues as such. They are almost derivable as Mercs. The speed trap difference is down to a driver's confidence than anything in wet condition that too when rain is intensifying and track has numerous puddles.

Correct, I meant Honda engines, probably their Renault engine era is too long to forget for me!

No, its not only down to a driver's confidence, the car needs to match your expectations as well. And there were driveability issues with both cars over the weekend as compared to the Mercs as I mentioned. Probably throttle maps, oversteery set up. Just my two cents.

[Amsdoc]

The ifs and buts conversation is endless. No doubt that the Mercedes is the better car in all situations than the RB, but even then takes a superb driver to put the power down. The gulf between Ham and Bottas was evident. Both are wonderful drivers and I hope Verstappen manages to mount some challenge but unfortunately the gulf between the cars will be even bigger in dry and the only serious competetion this year for Ham is going to Bottas, I feel.