[coolmel]

I have had the absolute privilege of watching nearly all of Schumachers championships. Sunday’s became race days because of him starting from school. Even if Mr. H goes on to level or take it to 100 I don’t care. The charisma, passion & emotion which Schumacher brought to the sport will be second to none. Do you still vividly remember the rain washed Beijing GP? That was rain driving at its finest. Minus any aids. THAT!! Hamilton’s had it easy and at times I feel most victories have been handed to him on a platter. There’s no comparisons really.

I’m sure somewhere in Europe, Michael must be reading this. And giving his trademark grin. Miss him! Get well soon Michael.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by coolmel

Minus any aids. THAT!! Hamilton’s had it easy and at times I feel most victories have been handed to him on a platter.

Completely untrue and unnecessary. He's won because it was the best driver in the best car, at times not the best car, especially the first championship.
And best not to go into the "aid" he had.

Originally Posted by coolmel

I’m sure somewhere in Europe, Michael must be reading this. And giving his trademark grin. Miss him! Get well soon Michael.

I concur. Get well soon Michael.

[sajaijayan]

This debate, like all amongst the greats will never end. However, I feel, in F1 or in MotoGP, how good you are can only be determined by how well you did vis a vis your teammate in a similar car. Purely on that matrix, Schumy wins. Currently Verstappen totally dominates his team mate also. Marquez in MotoGP etc. Just an observation.

[aim120]

Both Rosberg and Massa think that Hamilton will be GOAT, they both were team mates of Michael.

Schumacher never respected Nico Rosberg from day 1 in Mercedes team, it's like he didn't exist. In Ferrari, all his teamates where basically de facto secondary drivers.

You can also see the various controversies regarding Michael dating back to his days in Benetton, Ferrari and Mercedes. Youtube has tons of past F1 race videos and interview.

Another advantage Ferrari had at that time was tires built specifically for them by Bridgestone, other teams that used those tires were back field players like Minardi.
Mclaren, Williams, Bar-honda etc where all using Michelin and Bridgestone had the performance and safety edge.

You also need to be really good driver to get to be in the right team and develop a race winning car that was hands down to Michael and because of this, he had the entire team backing him, even if it means the second driver being left out.

But if Hamilton does win the 7th title, he does have a better controversy free record and he doesn't mind having competitive team mates, he does have the mathematical stats to back him up.

As a racing legend Michael is right there on the top, but as a sportsman not so much because of all the controversy.

[wrongturn]

Hamilton can never be compared to the legend. Racing in the most dominant car coupled with the fact that the team also is biased makes him just a good driver with a LOT of support and luck. I firmly believe Vettel is far better, just swap the teams and Hamilton won't last half the season.

Even in this season poor Bottas was asked to let Hamilton pass multiple times even though he was a title contender. Bottas is as good a driver as Hamilton if not better, he even secured more poles this season. For Hamilton it's very easy to win a race with "Valtteri is James" and "get in there Lewis". This might be one of the reasons Rosberg decided to retire.

Schumacher's entire career is a showcase of extraordinary brilliance, determination and hope. He has more comebacks and epic race wins than any other F1 driver. Hamilton is just an incredibly talented driver who will win if he is in the most powerful car on the track with all the team support backing him only. Hamilton could be great but certainly never will be legendary.

Apart from his first championship win in 2008, rest of the the 5 titles were a gift from the maFIA.

Here is a video where Hamilton wasn't able to pass the 42 year old Legend, he got schooled:

https://youtu.be/V7_SnEQdZpY

[thecarguy]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

Hamilton can never be compared to the legend. Racing in the most dominant car coupled with the fact that the team also is biased makes him just a good driver with a LOT of support and luck. I firmly believe Vettel is far better, just swap the teams and Hamilton won't last half the season.

Even in this season poor Bottas was asked to let Hamilton pass multiple times even though he was a title contender. Bottas is as good a driver as Hamilton if not better, he even secured more poles this season. For Hamilton it's very easy to win a race with "Valtteri is James" and "get in there Lewis". This might be one of the reasons Rosberg decided to retire.

Schumacher's entire career is a showcase of extraordinary brilliance, determination and hope. He has more comebacks and epic race wins than any other F1 driver. Hamilton is just an incredibly talented driver who will win if he is in the most powerful car on the track with all the team support backing him only. Hamilton could be great but certainly never will be legendary.

Apart from his first championship win in 2008, rest of the the 5 titles were a gift from the maFIA.

Here is a video where Hamilton wasn't able to pass the 42 year old Legend, he got schooled:

The bias is strong with this one...
How have you missed that Ferrari during Schumacher era created the rulebook on team orders?
Ferrari had significant influence over the FIA over those days, now not so much. If you didn't notice, the Mercedes isn't the most "powerful" car for the past two seasons
You have basically got your facts twisted, but I wouldn't like to discuss that with you. It's not possible to compare drivers from different Era's. Let's leave it at that.

[wrongturn]

Originally Posted by thecarguy

The bias is strong with this one...
How have you missed that Ferrari during Schumacher era created the rulebook on team orders?
Ferrari had significant influence over the FIA over those days, now not so much. If you didn't notice, the Mercedes isn't the most "powerful" car for the past two seasons
You have basically got your facts twisted, but I wouldn't like to discuss that with you. It's not possible to compare drivers from different Era's. Let's leave it at that.

How could you forget that he defeated Ferrari with his Benetton and won the championship, it's like Riccardo winning in his 2019 Renault against Mercedes.

Ferrari's hold over FIA was never like Mercedes, I mean Pirelli is making tires that suits Mercedes more than any other team, if you haven't noticed Hamilton and Bottas are able to drive the tires for more laps efficiently in comparison to other teams like seen in the last race also but wait maybe that's extraordinary engineering as well.

And by most powerful I certainly didn't mean just the BHP but the overall package, including the unfair tyre advantage though maybe I should have used the term 'better car' or 'best car' but that wouldn't have been fair as well, 'dominant car' would be adequate.

Also I didn't cook up the term maFIA, it's very real and well known.

[octane_100]

Schumi and Hamilton both belong to different generation. I am sure most of my generation would vouch for Schumi but we also had our previous generation vouch for Senna! So both are heroes in their own right but for me , Schumi will always be special.


Not taking anything away from Hamilton but the fact that he has more poles also means that on an average he has had the faster car, not always the case with Michael. Michael joined a team which was struggling and helped it to work its way up whereas Hamilton came in to Mercedes after it had reached a steady state.

[myavu]

Sorry I can't stop answering this.

I firmly believe Vettel is far better, just swap the teams and Hamilton won't last half the season.

You are saying a driver who had series of errors in 2019 and 2018 will better Hamilton? You are completely wrong with your statistics.

I believe and many F1 pundits along with Mr. Montezemolo himself believes Hamilton would have won 2018 championship if he was driving for Ferrari.

Even in this season poor Bottas was asked to let Hamilton pass multiple times even though he was a title contender. For Hamilton it's very easy to win a race with "Valtteri is James" and "get in there Lewis". This might be one of the reasons Rosberg decided to retire.

Can you please mention which are those multiple times in 2019. AFAIK the only one was Singapore which was not required. But even if that too did not had any impact on championship outcome.

Please explain how Lewis can win with just "Valtteri is James" and "get in there Lewis". Kindly be bit rational with your comments.

Yes Bottas "was" a title contender. But he never had the consistency of Hamilton.

Schumacher's entire career is a showcase of extraordinary brilliance, determination and hope. He has more comebacks and epic race wins than any other F1 driver.

100% agreed and that's why I am a big fan of him.

Hamilton is just an incredibly talented driver who will win if he is in the most powerful car on the track with all the team support backing him only. Hamilton could be great but certainly never will be legendary.

Hamiton had won at least once every season he had contested till date. From 2009 to 2012 McLaren had an inferior package and Hamilton won many races and many podiums too.

Apart from his first championship win in 2008, rest of the the 5 titles were a gift from the maFIA.

Most disrespectful comment here. What kind of theory is this? Do you have any insider docs or papers regarding so called maFIA. Please put your facts right when commenting something like this.

Here is a video where Hamilton wasn't able to pass the 42 year old Legend, he got schooled

You should add that he had moved multiple times under braking and got warned by Charlie. Then it is a wrong way of schooling.

If you want to see how it's done watch this. And that too in a narrow street circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK3vccskL9s

[thecarguy]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

How could you forget that he defeated Ferrari with his Benetton and won the championship, it's like Riccardo winning in his 2019 Renault against Mercedes.

Ferrari's hold over FIA was never like Mercedes, I mean Pirelli is making tires that suits Mercedes more than any other team, if you haven't noticed Hamilton and Bottas are able to drive the tires for more laps efficiently in comparison to other teams like seen in the last race also but wait maybe that's extraordinary engineering as well.

And by most powerful I certainly didn't mean just the BHP but the overall package, including the unfair tyre advantage though maybe I should have used the term 'better car' or 'best car' but that wouldn't have been fair as well, 'dominant car' would be adequate.

Also I didn't cook up the term maFIA, it's very real and well known.

The 1994 ferrari was a dog of a car, 3 pole position and 1 win. If you seriously believe that he was 'overdriving' the Benetton then you're wrong, as there's no such thing. The driver is only as fast as his car can be driven.

The misconception about the tyres in hogwash, there's no real evidence to support that claim, it's pure speculation by Ferrari fans, even F1 would want an end to Merc domination. They have worked on their weaknesses, by making a high downforce high drag concept. Ferrari went the other route and suffers overheating as the low downforce car slides a lot more in the corners.

[Orange GTX]

Originally Posted by GTO

We can debate this all day long, but even as a diehard Michael Schumacher fan, I'll say that Hamilton is one of the greatest. Wouldn't put him on par with Schumacher, yet will say that he's a very close no.2. Closer than any other driver.

Michael won races in inferior cars. He joined a horrible team and was part of a group that rebuilt it from scratch. He dominated so hard that the rules of the game had to be changed! Michael was never beaten by his team-mate in his peak (Rosberg did later). I don't think Lewis did any of this.

On the other hand, Lewis always fought his team-mates on level ground (no no.1 or no.2 business). Lewis has also been more likeable, and controversy-free. Even his critics will admit that Hamilton never cheated the way that Schumacher did (starting with all those intentional crashes).

I feel I'm lucky to have seen both these greats, live on television .

Yes, Schumacher was marred with controversies, one after another.
The one which really got me angry and sad was when Barichello was asked by the team management to allow Michael go past him to win the race.
Schumacher was brutally booed then.

[anb]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

How could you forget that he defeated Ferrari with his Benetton and won the championship, .

Well, there are many controversies in 1994 championship. Before the last race ,Schumi was leading the championship by one point. During the race, he purposefully collided with Hill to win the championship. He tried to do the same in 1997, but penalised by FIA with zero championship points. Even though he is a good driver, I have no respect for him
https://wwos.nine.com.au/Michael-Sch...3-235af3a221dd

[Vysakh]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

Hamilton... Racing in the most dominant car coupled with the fact that the team also is biased makes him just a good driver with a LOT of support and luck.

Schumacher's entire career is a showcase of extraordinary brilliance, determination and hope. He has more comebacks and epic race wins than any other F1 driver. Hamilton is just an incredibly talented driver who will win if he is in the most powerful car on the track with all the team support backing him only.

These sentences are more accurate when you replace Hamilton with Schumacher and vice versa.

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by GTO

Michael was never beaten by his team-mate in his peak (Rosberg did later). I don't think Lewis did any of this.

There is a catch, Hamilton's team mates except Bottas has won world championship.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

Even in this season poor Bottas was asked to let Hamilton pass multiple times even though he was a title contender. Bottas is as good a driver as Hamilton if not better, he even secured more poles this season. For Hamilton it's very easy to win a race with "Valtteri is James" and "get in there Lewis". This might be one of the reasons Rosberg decided to retire.

Hamilton didn't ask for him to move over, it was team orders which Ferrari is king of.
The one time I remember lewis specifically asked to let him by and look what he did on the final lap, he allowed Bottas to re-pass again, this was in fact when he was trailing behind Vettel in points and also had a redbull breathing down on the Mercedes back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEIAK5Ao8DQ

Originally Posted by wrongturn

Hamilton is just an incredibly talented driver who will win if he is in the most powerful car on the track with all the team support backing him only. Hamilton could be great but certainly never will be legendary.

You think Schumacher didn't have best car and the entire team backing him. Schumacher himself said it was due to the right car and team in the Top gear interview where he was dressed as the Stig.


As for as the controversies of Schumacher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzpYilkKrA

Watch the below video in at least 1.25x speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJrJiJR12Bw