Honda and Toyota - and their lack of success in F1

ranjan united · 15th June 2006, 07:41

Honda and Toyota are not true F1 teams, but jokes. the Japs have to realize that their style of work doesn't suit F1 or any other racing principle. latest victim is Button, who is threatened by Tokyo that his race seat next season could well be gone. both honda and toyota are also gonna reshuffle management next season (basically, they're gonna fire everyone above the mechanic lvl and hire all new ppl). sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. no matter how much money toyota puts in, it wont matter, coz they can't run a F1 team. they should just stick to engine maufacturing. i'd rather see minardi and arrows back instead of toyota and honda.

adya33 · 15th June 2006, 10:15

Are you forgetting history?
Calling Honda failure in F1 is biggest joke I have ever heard.

As for running a team, you can not expect to win straight away in first year itself. It takes a lot of time and development.

Rtech · 15th June 2006, 10:24

Ranjan, by your post above, its clear you have an extremely limited understanding of the sport. Lets just leave it at that!

2L8uLoose · 15th June 2006, 10:31

Geez... do people here just start threads without thinking things through?
What do you call the McLaren Honda team's of the late 80's and early 90's..
In today's day and age people should "GOOGLE" things before shooting off a thread like this!

The Matrix · 15th June 2006, 11:04

Good joke for me to start the day ranjan..Pls do your homework before you start a thread..

Mods i guess this thread needs to be closed.

F50 · 15th June 2006, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by adya33

Are you forgetting history?

That was sad not to know about Honda's presence in F1.

Just for our information Honda entered F1 in 1964 was there for next six years.
Came back in 1983 and in 1986 it was supplying engines to Lotus and Williams.
From 1987 it started to supply engines to Mclaren and as 2l8uloose said the 1987 Mclaren Honda car was the most dominant car in F1 History.
Other to me is 2004 Ferrari.

So by no means Honda guys are a pack of Jokers.

zenx · 15th June 2006, 11:08

McLaren Honda featured Honda as the engine supplier, which is precisely what Ranjan suggested they 'stick to'. And while not totally belittling their efforts, I kinda agree. Smaller teams with a quarter or less of the spend have been equally good/bad, and they do need to rethink their approach to F1.

In any case, its a point of view. You can disagree, but being viciously dismissive is not on, esp on a usually mature forum that tbhp is.

My team of the year - SA. With that 4 year old go - kart, and zero development time, they're giving Midland and the likes something to think about, even if its for part of the race. Nobody expected them to get even within sniffing distance.

sanket12 · 15th June 2006, 21:14

you watch a couple of seasons on the tele & suddenly you know how to run an f1 team????

zenx · 15th June 2006, 22:09

Wow. This thread is getting nasty for no apparent reason!
Anyhow - to stick to the topic - Honda F1 technically exist only this year - in the form that the original post discusses, and they've pretty much been in the drivers seat with BAR too since 99. They've had a decent season and a half, and primarily qualifying honours last year. Now with BAR gone, things seem to have gone downhill.
Yes theres been history, but teams have and will continue to get flak on current form and management. Thats hardly a crime, especially just an expressed opinion.
Nobody's claiming knowledge of how to run F1 teams - no one on this forum can - but if thats reason enough to not post opinions, and viciously react against, there's a good 90% topics across the site that need to be 'thread closed'.

prince85 · 15th June 2006, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranjan united

Honda and Toyota are not true F1 teams, but jokes. the Japs have to realize that their style of work doesn't suit F1 or any other racing principle. latest victim is Button, who is threatened by Tokyo that his race seat next season could well be gone. both honda and toyota are also gonna reshuffle management next season (basically, they're gonna fire everyone above the mechanic lvl and hire all new ppl). sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. no matter how much money toyota puts in, it wont matter, coz they can't run a F1 team. they should just stick to engine maufacturing. i'd rather see minardi and arrows back instead of toyota and honda.

Is this some kinda joke?????

Get your basics right and knowledge updated on F1 before you write-off a perfectly good team like Toyota and more importantly HONDA.Till then my friend, JUST CHILL!

karthik247 · 15th June 2006, 22:43

Honda is doing pretty well, in fact they are almost on par with the A grade teams like Ferrari n McLaren. And they are currently 4th in the constructors standings, which is very good for Honda.

killjoy · 15th June 2006, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtech

Ranjan, by your post above, its clear you have an extremely limited understanding of the sport. Lets just leave it at that!

..............................

sujaylahiri · 15th June 2006, 23:37

As mentioned by Ranjan, Toyota despite of spending the maximum amount of money in F1 this year, have only managed to be a mid level team. Whereas teams like Renault which spend about half the money are the invincible leaders this season.
Also look at Button this season. The no. of times his car has prevented him from actually scoring points. (Melbourne !!!! last few metres) Every time, the poor chap has some issues with the car.
What Ranjan suggests is that Honda and Toyota should stop having their own self-sufficient teams and supply engines to the bigger teams like McLaren and Williams as they did before during their times of glory.
In fact Williams already have a deal with Toyota next season and they have dumped Cosworth.

adya33 · 16th June 2006, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenx

Nobody's claiming knowledge of how to run F1 teams - no one on this forum can - but if thats reason enough to not post opinions, and viciously react against, there's a good 90% topics across the site that need to be 'thread closed'.

There is difference between, constructive criticism & bashing.
I am afraid ranjan uniteds post was pure bashing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

Toyota despite of spending the maximum amount of money in F1 this year, have only managed to be a mid level team. Whereas teams like Renault which spend about half the money are the invincible leaders this season.

Toyota came to F1 with no experience of the sport at all. They had to build their team from ground zero. They didn't purchased another team, but made a new entry in F1. Where as Renault was in F1 prior to re-entering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

Also look at Button this season. The no. of times his car has prevented him from actually scoring points. (Melbourne !!!! last few metres) Every time, the poor chap has some issues with the car.

Honda decided to retire Jenson than finishing so as to save 10 place grid penalty for next GP. (click me)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

In fact Williams already have a deal with Toyota next season and they have dumped Cosworth.

Can you show conclusive proof of it? Because even Sam Michael who is technical chief of Williams is saying

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Michael

"No decision has been made yet and I can comment on any deals with other manufacturers."

sujaylahiri · 16th June 2006, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by adya33

Can you show conclusive proof of it? Because even Sam Michael who is technical chief of Williams is saying

Here is the proof
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16913.html

And they might name the engines as Lexus, so it'll be Williams-Lexus.

Honda might have decided to retire Button to escape the 10 place penalty, but things would have been different had the engine not caught fire in Melbourne in the last few metres of the race.

Btw, another example of Honda's upper level reshuffle as mentioned by Ranjan
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16967.html

15th June 2006, 07:41	#1
ranjan united BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Windsor, Canada... But still a Bombay-Boy at heart !!! Posts: 409 Thanked: 3 Times	Honda and Toyota - and their lack of success in F1 Honda and Toyota are not true F1 teams, but jokes. the Japs have to realize that their style of work doesn't suit F1 or any other racing principle. latest victim is Button, who is threatened by Tokyo that his race seat next season could well be gone. both honda and toyota are also gonna reshuffle management next season (basically, they're gonna fire everyone above the mechanic lvl and hire all new ppl). sorry guys, it doesn't work that way. no matter how much money toyota puts in, it wont matter, coz they can't run a F1 team. they should just stick to engine maufacturing. i'd rather see minardi and arrows back instead of toyota and honda.
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 10:15	#2
adya33 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 1,834 Thanked: 185 Times	Are you forgetting history? Calling Honda failure in F1 is biggest joke I have ever heard. As for running a team, you can not expect to win straight away in first year itself. It takes a lot of time and development.
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 10:24	#3
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,765 Thanked: 371 Times View My Garage	Ranjan, by your post above, its clear you have an extremely limited understanding of the sport. Lets just leave it at that!
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 10:31	#4
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 627 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	Geez... do people here just start threads without thinking things through? What do you call the McLaren Honda team's of the late 80's and early 90's.. In today's day and age people should "GOOGLE" things before shooting off a thread like this!
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 11:04	#5
The Matrix BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 111 Thanked: 2 Times	Good joke for me to start the day ranjan..Pls do your homework before you start a thread.. Mods i guess this thread needs to be closed.
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 11:08	#7
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,164 Thanked: 162 Times View My Garage	McLaren Honda featured Honda as the engine supplier, which is precisely what Ranjan suggested they 'stick to'. And while not totally belittling their efforts, I kinda agree. Smaller teams with a quarter or less of the spend have been equally good/bad, and they do need to rethink their approach to F1. In any case, its a point of view. You can disagree, but being viciously dismissive is not on, esp on a usually mature forum that tbhp is. My team of the year - SA. With that 4 year old go - kart, and zero development time, they're giving Midland and the likes something to think about, even if its for part of the race. Nobody expected them to get even within sniffing distance.
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 21:14	#8
sanket12 BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: satara Posts: 174 Thanked: 6 Times	you watch a couple of seasons on the tele & suddenly you know how to run an f1 team????
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 22:09	#9
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,164 Thanked: 162 Times View My Garage	Wow. This thread is getting nasty for no apparent reason! Anyhow - to stick to the topic - Honda F1 technically exist only this year - in the form that the original post discusses, and they've pretty much been in the drivers seat with BAR too since 99. They've had a decent season and a half, and primarily qualifying honours last year. Now with BAR gone, things seem to have gone downhill. Yes theres been history, but teams have and will continue to get flak on current form and management. Thats hardly a crime, especially just an expressed opinion. Nobody's claiming knowledge of how to run F1 teams - no one on this forum can - but if thats reason enough to not post opinions, and viciously react against, there's a good 90% topics across the site that need to be 'thread closed'. Last edited by zenx : 15th June 2006 at 22:12.
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 22:43	#11
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	Honda is doing pretty well, in fact they are almost on par with the A grade teams like Ferrari n McLaren. And they are currently 4th in the constructors standings, which is very good for Honda.
	() Thanks

15th June 2006, 23:37	#13
sujaylahiri BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North America Posts: 960 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	As mentioned by Ranjan, Toyota despite of spending the maximum amount of money in F1 this year, have only managed to be a mid level team. Whereas teams like Renault which spend about half the money are the invincible leaders this season. Also look at Button this season. The no. of times his car has prevented him from actually scoring points. (Melbourne !!!! last few metres) Every time, the poor chap has some issues with the car. What Ranjan suggests is that Honda and Toyota should stop having their own self-sufficient teams and supply engines to the bigger teams like McLaren and Williams as they did before during their times of glory. In fact Williams already have a deal with Toyota next season and they have dumped Cosworth.
	() Thanks