F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco

scuderiamania · 29th May 2011, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Wooowwwwwwwwww. What an amazing race, by far the most action packed and interesting race of the season!!!! Perhaps the best Monaco GP in a long time!

That pathethic move Felipe Massa made was very odd . It's nothing short of impossible to overtake in that tunnel, sometimes I wonder why he's in that Ferrari :/ .

Not that I am supporting what Massa did, but you might want to take a good look at that again. Even the commentators got it wrong. Hamilton and Massa made contact at the hairpin, but Massa still managed to keep his car ahead of Hamilton's. That is to say, Massa was ahead of Hamilton at the entrance of the tunnel. But Hamilton got a real good drive out of the turn [I am assuming that Massa probably got a little out of shape there]. It was actually Hamilton pulling an overtaking move on Massa which pushed Massa onto the marbles and hence the collision.

But all said and done, Its like the old aggresive Massa is no more.

D33-PAC · 29th May 2011, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuderiamania

Not that I am supporting what Massa did, but you might want to take a good look at that again. Even the commentators got it wrong. Hamilton and Massa made contact at the hairpin, but Massa still managed to keep his car ahead of Hamilton's. That is to say, Massa was ahead of Hamilton at the entrance of the tunnel. But Hamilton got a real good drive out of the turn [I am assuming that Massa probably got a little out of shape there]. It was actually Hamilton pulling an overtaking move on Massa which pushed Massa onto the marbles and hence the collision.

But all said and done, Its like the old aggresive Massa is no more.

Here you can see what I mean:

YouTube - ‪F1 Monaco 2011 - Felipe Massa Monaco F1 GP 2011 Big Crash - Massa Crashes In The Tunnel‬&rlm;

Notice how Hamilton has to fall back in the racing line during the curve ending, even if Massa didn't hit the walls he would have collided with Hamilton.
Hamilton clearly had the inside of the tunnel and for Massa to think that he can overtake from the outside is just amateur. The tunnel itself is about 4 or 5 cars wide and as if going 260 + KMPH on a curve isn't enough Massa had to pull that.

The loss to Ferrari wouldn't have been as big as it was had he sacrificed his position. And at the end of the day the second most significant priority for an F1 team is getting points, After winning or making an effort to win obviously.

But maybe an onboard cam perspective would show us things differently.

scuderiamania · 29th May 2011, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Here you can see what I mean:

YouTube - ‪F1 Monaco 2011 - Felipe Massa Monaco F1 GP 2011 Big Crash - Massa Crashes In The Tunnel‬&rlm;

Notice how Hamilton has to fall back in the racing line during the curve ending, even if Massa didn't hit the walls he would have collided with Hamilton.
Hamilton clearly had the inside of the tunnel and for Massa to think that he can overtake from the outside is just amateur. The tunnel itself is about 4 or 5 cars wide and as if going 260 + KMPH on a curve isn't enough Massa had to pull that.

The loss to Ferrari wouldn't have been as big as it was had he sacrificed his position. And at the end of the day the second most significant priority for an F1 team is getting points, After winning or making an effort to win obviously.

But maybe an onboard cam perspective would show us things differently.

I agree, but the thing is, he was not overtaking, he was being overtaken!What he should have done is to let hamilton throug rather than try to defend it round the outside!

D33-PAC · 29th May 2011, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuderiamania

I agree, but the thing is, he was not overtaking, he was being overtaken!What he should have done is to let hamilton throug rather than try to defend it round the outside!

Okay maybe I missed something, I assumed Hamilton was being overtaken because he was ahead of Massa. Anyway, a Ferrari driver should drive so that he never leaves an inch for another guy to even think about an overtaking opportunity. That's where Alonso excels IMHO, that guy never has his guard down

!

dkhatau · 29th May 2011, 22:45

Vettel all the way. And what is with Hamiltaon is he fool or what telling the stewards fricking jokers man he needs to respect the racing line and not create fricking accidents, to be fair he was arrogant today and i am ashamed that he is in formula 1, trying to overtake is one thing but to take out others is one thing. he should be banned for couple of races so that he knows the rules properly. Shame hamilton.

scuderiamania · 29th May 2011, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Okay maybe I missed something, I assumed Hamilton was being overtaken because he was ahead of Massa. Anyway, a Ferrari driver should drive so that he never leaves an inch for another guy to even think about an overtaking opportunity. That's where Alonso excels IMHO, that guy never has his guard down

!

This I totally agree with.Massa is just not what he used to be before the accident!

anachronix · 29th May 2011, 23:26

Hamilton jokes: Maybe it's because I'm black | Planet F1 | Formula One News

I feel sorry for all the Hamilton fans! Total shame for the F1 fraternity to have this idiot as a driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD8T8...layer_embedded

shibujp · 30th May 2011, 10:01

Pure Class - this is what I thought of the three world champions slugging it out for the top three podium positions. Bollocks to FIA for permitting the teams to change their tyres during the red flags. If not for that, I am sure it would have been a fantastic finale!! But full marks to the three drivers - Vettel for soaking up the pressures, Alonso for his drive and Jenson - cool as always.

Red Bull - basics still very important
The Red Bull racing car with it's superb aerodynamics was an example of why a car has to be basically good in all departments - just excess in one department will not make up for shortcoming in another. The way Vettel was able to pull away from the first corner after the start finish straight while the Ferrari was struggling for traction was evidence of this.

Alonso - one of the best
The true position of the F 150 is between Fernando's qualifying position and Massa's. The fact that it ended up in second is testament to Alonso's abilities as a driver. Even in Renault he ended up finishing in positions where the Renault should not have been. Even in Monaco he really took the fight to the Bull's getting his nose alongside in one instance.

Massa - frankly Ferrari should let this guy move on to better things. Hamilton - Martin Witmarsh should go an have a chat with the guys in Red Bull on how they have man managed Vettel. Frankly Hamilton would not get a more amicable team mate than Jenson Button.

A fantastic race with fireworks up and down the order - KERS and DRS have finally come of age I think. Along with the tyres, these two technologies are making a case for themselves. The cutting edge technology for me is one crucial element of F1 and one reason why I wouldn't want to see cars of the same spec racing as in GP2 or GP3s.

Hatari · 30th May 2011, 11:11

Fortune did favour the brave in the end.
What an exciting race at Monaco!

the top 3 were superb, adapting their driving to their strategy really well. what more can a team ask.

Lewis is getting carried away here. Both his overtaking moves were rightly penalised, though the second one on Maldonado should have attracted a stiffer penalty.

amitku · 30th May 2011, 15:00

Was a fantastic Monoco GP. The Pirelli tyres have really brought back fun and uncertainty to F1.
Shame the race was Red flagged else, the last 10 laps would have produced a different winner. Another possibility was of the top 3 involved in an incident, as Vettel's tyres were gone and Alonso or Jenson would have definitely tried a move.
Hamilton was the luckiest guy there, as during the Red Flag his cars rear was repaired, else we would have definitely retired or ended in the barriers. Lucky win for Seb.

Kartik Krishnan · 30th May 2011, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatari

Fortune did favour the brave in the end.
What an exciting race at Monaco!

the top 3 were superb, adapting their driving to their strategy really well. what more can a team ask.

Agreed! Fortune did favour the brave!

But with all the action on the track, the Sunday did go really well!
And Red Bull's Vettel has been proving time and again to the world why he's the one having so success this season!

Even our local beer baron had similar things to say with his teams performance

,

Dr Vijay Mallya, Force India chairman and team principal
“Today’s race was full of excitement, drama and great racing. With Adrian I believe we judged the strategy perfectly and his seventh place finish is a great reward for the whole team. He did an excellent job to keep his tyres alive in the middle part of the race when we were planning to do a one-stop strategy. Towards the end of the race we got a little bit lucky with the safety car, but we reacted well and Adrian kept pushing hard to score six important points. Paul’s race was looking promising in the early laps until he picked up some damage after contact with the Toro Rosso. He was maybe a little over-eager to get by, but this was his first Grand Prix at Monaco and he will learn from this experience.”
Whole article

esoticoreventon · 31st May 2011, 20:37

Here is the Video of the Mass Hamilton Incident on-board Hamilton's car.

YouTube - ‪Hamilton vs Massa incident Monaco F1 2011 (onboard camera)‬&rlm;

Lewis was significantly faster than Massa before approaching the hairpin. As he approached the hairpin he decided to make a move. Massa saw him and decided to block him rather than let him past. That is obvious in the video.. look at where all the other cars take the corner and look at where Massa turns in. Hamilton would have easily completed the maneuver easily if Massa had sticked to his line. If you watch the Hamilton Maldonado incident its even more apparent that Maldonado turned in too soon in an attempt to prevent Lewis from overtaking.

I'm sorry, but Lewis' anger is more than justified.

MaserQ · 31st May 2011, 23:01

On a street track like Monaco, incidents like the Massa-Hamilton collision are bound to happen. Agreed, Lewis could have been a bit more circumspect, but these guys are race car drivers..put them in a fast car and they'll happily go racing in a car park!

Massa has always been a bit of a whiner, especially when things are not going his way and yes, Lewis had a silly moment on camera after the race, but to penalize a driver for what looked like a racing incident is a bit much. Like Alonso said after the race, he would have taken the chance to pass Vettel had the race not been interrupted by the safety car. It might have come off or not, but he would have risked it anyway.

deetjohn · 1st June 2011, 09:17

McLaren flustered a great chance to close in at Monaco. They had the fastest car in race trim and clearly didn't make most of it.

First with Lewis not going out early on Sat and then with an early second pitstop for JB when it was not needed at all. Off all the circuits, Monaco is the last place one should give track position away when leading. Shame!

esoticoreventon · 1st June 2011, 10:26

@deetjohn.

couldn't agree with you more man! Lewis should have just put in a banker lap, just in case.. But he was on a one lap run, and to do that, the closing stages is the best time. Track has the maximum grip, the Perez accident was just unfortunate.

The Red Flag ruined chances for Alonso and Button, but what a boon for Vettel.

29th May 2011, 22:45	#50
dkhatau BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: mumbai Posts: 162 Thanked: 43 Times	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco Vettel all the way. And what is with Hamiltaon is he fool or what telling the stewards fricking jokers man he needs to respect the racing line and not create fricking accidents, to be fair he was arrogant today and i am ashamed that he is in formula 1, trying to overtake is one thing but to take out others is one thing. he should be banned for couple of races so that he knows the rules properly. Shame hamilton.
	() Thanks

30th May 2011, 10:01	#53
shibujp Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,765 Thanked: 3,305 Times View My Garage	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco Pure Class - this is what I thought of the three world champions slugging it out for the top three podium positions. Bollocks to FIA for permitting the teams to change their tyres during the red flags. If not for that, I am sure it would have been a fantastic finale!! But full marks to the three drivers - Vettel for soaking up the pressures, Alonso for his drive and Jenson - cool as always. Red Bull - basics still very important The Red Bull racing car with it's superb aerodynamics was an example of why a car has to be basically good in all departments - just excess in one department will not make up for shortcoming in another. The way Vettel was able to pull away from the first corner after the start finish straight while the Ferrari was struggling for traction was evidence of this. Alonso - one of the best The true position of the F 150 is between Fernando's qualifying position and Massa's. The fact that it ended up in second is testament to Alonso's abilities as a driver. Even in Renault he ended up finishing in positions where the Renault should not have been. Even in Monaco he really took the fight to the Bull's getting his nose alongside in one instance. Massa - frankly Ferrari should let this guy move on to better things. Hamilton - Martin Witmarsh should go an have a chat with the guys in Red Bull on how they have man managed Vettel. Frankly Hamilton would not get a more amicable team mate than Jenson Button. A fantastic race with fireworks up and down the order - KERS and DRS have finally come of age I think. Along with the tyres, these two technologies are making a case for themselves. The cutting edge technology for me is one crucial element of F1 and one reason why I wouldn't want to see cars of the same spec racing as in GP2 or GP3s.
	() Thanks

30th May 2011, 11:11	#54
Hatari Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 1,876 Thanked: 878 Times	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco Fortune did favour the brave in the end. What an exciting race at Monaco! the top 3 were superb, adapting their driving to their strategy really well. what more can a team ask. Lewis is getting carried away here. Both his overtaking moves were rightly penalised, though the second one on Maldonado should have attracted a stiffer penalty.
	() Thanks

30th May 2011, 15:00	#55
amitku BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Noida Posts: 86 Thanked: 31 Times	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco Was a fantastic Monoco GP. The Pirelli tyres have really brought back fun and uncertainty to F1. Shame the race was Red flagged else, the last 10 laps would have produced a different winner. Another possibility was of the top 3 involved in an incident, as Vettel's tyres were gone and Alonso or Jenson would have definitely tried a move. Hamilton was the luckiest guy there, as during the Red Flag his cars rear was repaired, else we would have definitely retired or ended in the barriers. Lucky win for Seb.
	() Thanks

31st May 2011, 23:01	#58
MaserQ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,196 Thanked: 166 Times	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco On a street track like Monaco, incidents like the Massa-Hamilton collision are bound to happen. Agreed, Lewis could have been a bit more circumspect, but these guys are race car drivers..put them in a fast car and they'll happily go racing in a car park! Massa has always been a bit of a whiner, especially when things are not going his way and yes, Lewis had a silly moment on camera after the race, but to penalize a driver for what looked like a racing incident is a bit much. Like Alonso said after the race, he would have taken the chance to pass Vettel had the race not been interrupted by the safety car. It might have come off or not, but he would have risked it anyway.
	() Thanks

1st June 2011, 09:17	#59
deetjohn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kochi Posts: 4,530 Thanked: 10,586 Times View My Garage	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco McLaren flustered a great chance to close in at Monaco. They had the fastest car in race trim and clearly didn't make most of it. First with Lewis not going out early on Sat and then with an early second pitstop for JB when it was not needed at all. Off all the circuits, Monaco is the last place one should give track position away when leading. Shame! Last edited by deetjohn : 1st June 2011 at 09:18.
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1st June 2011, 10:26	#60
esoticoreventon BHPian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Chennai Posts: 208 Thanked: 519 Times	Re: F1 2011 -Grand Prix De Monaco @deetjohn. couldn't agree with you more man! Lewis should have just put in a banker lap, just in case.. But he was on a one lap run, and to do that, the closing stages is the best time. Track has the maximum grip, the Perez accident was just unfortunate. The Red Flag ruined chances for Alonso and Button, but what a boon for Vettel.
	() Thanks